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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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Thanks for the enabling, Timu! I went ahead and ordered, lol.
I appreciate your help as well, Mega. It seems unnecessary but a slight improvement and ease of use with my gscartsw is appealing
I also needed to ease the pain after the PVM was sniped earlier this morning.I'd say the N64 mod is the least impressive RGB out of any console. It's still worth it though in my opinion. Definitely, I agree the colors are bound to be more accurate than via s-video.207 USD/275 CDN. I currently have a 1354Q for reference. And it's already sold
Also, somewhat of a cross-post from the N64 thread but anyone have any experience/would you recommend the RGB mod for the N64 over s-video? I've read varying things about how its RGB output benefit is fairly minimal.
gingerbeardman
Member
just seen two (two!) NEC XM29 Plus for sale at £700 - each. Blimey.
I know this is a few days old, but god dammit, so many great suggestions here!
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Seconding "RetroSexuals"
speedlolita
Member
I chuckled and moved on. lol
My first post in this thread:
I see I was already on that upscaler bandwagon, even though it took a few years from this post before i got my Framemeister. I still have the Toploader unmodded though, ended up buying a pre-modded AV Famicom from Baphomet instead.
As for the rest of my setup, back then i had:
Nes->Composite
Snes->RGB
N64-> Composite
Gamecube->Composite
Wii->RGB
Wii U->HDMI
PS1->In the closet
PS2->Composite
PS3->HDMI
Xbox->Composite
360-> HDMI
Master System 2->RF
Mega Drive->RGB
Dreamcast-> Broken
Now I have:
Famicom->RGB
Snes->RGB
N64-> RGB
Gamecube->RGB
Wii->Component
Wii U->HDMI
PS1->RGB
PS2->Component
PS3->HDMI
Xbox->Component
360-> HDMI
Master System->RGB
Mega Drive->RGB
Saturn->RGB
Dreamcast-> VGA
All except the hdmi-systems and the Dreamcast hooked up to the Framemeister throught the Gscart lol. Yeah, i fell into the rabbit hole.
I have an old Toploader Nes that I want modded, does anybody have some modders that they can recommend? I have considered to do it myself as well, but I think I just want to be sure that its done properly and not risking screwing it up.
Edit: I see this might be the wrong thread for this question, but I wanted to use it with an upscaler in the future if that is possible, so I guess it is kinda relevant
I see I was already on that upscaler bandwagon, even though it took a few years from this post before i got my Framemeister. I still have the Toploader unmodded though, ended up buying a pre-modded AV Famicom from Baphomet instead.
As for the rest of my setup, back then i had:
Nes->Composite
Snes->RGB
N64-> Composite
Gamecube->Composite
Wii->RGB
Wii U->HDMI
PS1->In the closet
PS2->Composite
PS3->HDMI
Xbox->Composite
360-> HDMI
Master System 2->RF
Mega Drive->RGB
Dreamcast-> Broken
Now I have:
Famicom->RGB
Snes->RGB
N64-> RGB
Gamecube->RGB
Wii->Component
Wii U->HDMI
PS1->RGB
PS2->Component
PS3->HDMI
Xbox->Component
360-> HDMI
Master System->RGB
Mega Drive->RGB
Saturn->RGB
Dreamcast-> VGA
All except the hdmi-systems and the Dreamcast hooked up to the Framemeister throught the Gscart lol. Yeah, i fell into the rabbit hole.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Speaking of the XM29, who in the US is buying this beast?
About people doing FAQs for the Framemeister for the next OP, i think it should maybe include some info in using the Framemeister with Pal-sources, as the profiles linked will often nok look as good, and the settings for getting good scanlines are different than for ntsc-signals on some consoles.
SOME-MIST
Member
seems outrageously priced
fgranted, it's not the same thing, but I scooped an xm29 a few years ago for $100.
speedlolita
Member
seems outrageously priced
granted, it's not the same thing, but I scooped an xm29 a few years ago for $100.
Times change!
They sell though.
If that were in NYC and in the right condition, I'd legit offer him $500 or so. $1.5k is just insane to me.
;-)
InfiniteCombo
Banned
So I have a few questions. I would appreciate any answers at all. If not, it's cool too
1. Do people have recommendations for a SCART switch box? I was looking on Amazon, and there are a couple of options...
2. For PS1 games, is it better to have:
- A PSOne via RGB
- Played on a PS2 via YPbPr
- From a PS3 via HDMI or YPbPr
3. I absolutely love the VGA output from the Dreamcast, it's absolutely gorgeous. I have several 2D games for the Dreamcast for which I would like to enable scanlines for. (Mostly Capcom/SNK fighting games). Is enabling scanlines on anything beyond 240p/480i "crazy talk?"
4. If it's not crazy to enable scanlines, obviously the Framemeister doesn't take VGA input. Someone in this thread (I forget who) recommended an alternative that takes VGA, but it's $80+ for a single device. Is there someway I can make the Dreamcast work with the Framemeister using VGA? (Perhaps a VGA -> some other format converter?)
Again, I appreciate any and all answers. This thread is amazing.
1. Do people have recommendations for a SCART switch box? I was looking on Amazon, and there are a couple of options...
2. For PS1 games, is it better to have:
- A PSOne via RGB
- Played on a PS2 via YPbPr
- From a PS3 via HDMI or YPbPr
3. I absolutely love the VGA output from the Dreamcast, it's absolutely gorgeous. I have several 2D games for the Dreamcast for which I would like to enable scanlines for. (Mostly Capcom/SNK fighting games). Is enabling scanlines on anything beyond 240p/480i "crazy talk?"
4. If it's not crazy to enable scanlines, obviously the Framemeister doesn't take VGA input. Someone in this thread (I forget who) recommended an alternative that takes VGA, but it's $80+ for a single device. Is there someway I can make the Dreamcast work with the Framemeister using VGA? (Perhaps a VGA -> some other format converter?)
Again, I appreciate any and all answers. This thread is amazing.
SOME-MIST
Member
extron emotia?So I have a few questions. I would appreciate any answers at all. If not, it's cool too
4. If it's not crazy to enable scanlines, obviously the Framemeister doesn't take VGA input. Someone in this thread (I forget who) recommended an alternative that takes VGA, but it's $80+ for a single device. Is there someway I can make the Dreamcast work with the Framemeister using VGA? (Perhaps a VGA -> some other format converter?)
saveweyard
Banned
Definitely don't use your PS3 for PS1 games, it's just software emulation and games will only run at 480i, not 240p.
As far as PS1 vs. PS2, it really just depends on your situation. There a few games which won't run on your PS2, with the list expanding on the slim models. If you're okay with that and only want one console hooked up, the PS2 will output PS1 games in 240p, via RGB or component.
Are you interested in playing PS2 games as well? Do you care about having 480p for the PS2 games that support it? Your answers to those questions will determine whether or not you'd use RGB or component for the PS2.
Personally, I have a PS1 hooked up via RGB (make sure you get sync on luma if you go this route) and a PS2 hooked up via component. I just find it the easiest way and I don't have to worry about switching cables or having to buy additional equipment. If I had a monitor that was 480p capable like a BVM I might switch PS2 to RGB and do RGsB instead so I could get 240p, 480i, and 480p all over RGB.
Sorry for the long rambling answer, but with so many versions of PlayStation consoles, there are a lot of options! Let me know if anything was too confusing!
InfiniteCombo
Banned
It's not a rambling answer, it's a fantastic one!
My situation:
- I don't have a PSOne. My question was framed so that depending on the answer, I would go out and get one.
- I have a PS2 Slim, Japanese version. I have it hooked up to an XRGB-Mini via YPbPr (D terminal cable, it's what the Japanese use instead of the component cables, I guess?)
- I have a lot of 2D fighting games for my PS2; it's essentially my fighting game machine. I have scanlines enabled for some of the games (some others don't need them), and the image is gorgeous.
So yea, I was just trying to find out is I should go out and get a PSOne and hook it up to my XRGB-Mini via RGB.
saveweyard
Banned
Cool, I have a clearer image of your setup now.
I'd get a PSOne if I was you (probably the smaller redesigned version as they have a more reliable laser). And like I said, make sure the RGB cable you get is sync on luma as that has the cleanest picture.
I think you'll definitely see the difference, as the PS2 component signal is kind of noisy, and the XRGB mini's d-terminal input isn't as clean as it's RGB input.
Plus, PS1s, at least in the US, are really cheap. Like $10 to $20 and you can find them everywhere.
storafötter
Member
Does anyone know what type of RGB cable they sell at solaris for SFC?
https://solarisjapan.com/collection.../pro-rgb-cable-retromeister-for-super-famicom
It says nothing if its csync or lumia sync. Getting impatient waiting for new RGB cables from Retro Game Cables.
https://solarisjapan.com/collection.../pro-rgb-cable-retromeister-for-super-famicom
It says nothing if its csync or lumia sync. Getting impatient waiting for new RGB cables from Retro Game Cables.
speedlolita
Member
I found that the later video chip used in PlayStation consoles (SCPH-7000 onwards) to be pretty noisy myself. Akin to playing a PlayStation game on a PlayStation 2. I personally have a SCPH-5500 shell with a SCPH-5501 motherboard (Mayumi V4 chip, CXA-1645 video chip) and the PSU and laser from a SCPH-5502.
D.Lo
Member
saveweyard
Banned
Yeah, I guess they changed the chip on the later models to a non-Sony branded one? Correct me if I'm wrong. I've never opened up different models to do a comparison of the different chips.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I've been typing up a framemeister FAQ, can you PM any info you think should be there for Pal Sources or links for Pal profiles?
Shin Johnpv
Member
Oh also does anyone know how to code or set up a like grid thing for a post. I want to put the best av out modded and unmodded quick reference guide as just a post on it but not sure how to do that. Or do you guys think it would be better to just do it as an image in photoshop? Just thoughts a code chart would be easier to update with new systems and info, but maybe an image would look nicer.
*EDIT*
Nevermind the image idea, I was just looking at the data I have already and its up to 32 lines (that's counting each system and their different models as different lines like NES/ToLoader/Famicom/TwinFamicom/AVFamicom/etc) so I think a coded chart would be easier to handle and work with.
*EDIT*
Nevermind the image idea, I was just looking at the data I have already and its up to 32 lines (that's counting each system and their different models as different lines like NES/ToLoader/Famicom/TwinFamicom/AVFamicom/etc) so I think a coded chart would be easier to handle and work with.
Got a good deal on an original Xbox as well with component cables (I need those From and Sega exclusives
I find it looks just fine on an LCD. I actually did a 480p test recently with Burnout using Component and recorded it, it looks pretty damn good. Just make sure to make the LCD set to 4:3 unless the game specifically supports 16:9 otherwise the stretching -cringe-
Example: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=KOblOunPLAw
storafötter
Member
Damn I cant read. Thanks for using your eyes for me
Luckily I know that difference now. I guess I have to wait for retro cables as I have no "super" chip for SFC (tempted to buy one but maybe not worth the asking price).
Cool, thanks! I can't see your link unfortunately.
Think I found it though
Looks great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOblOunPLAw
Shin Johnpv
Member
I made this as a quick reference image for the next thread's OP if you guys like it. Also any missing systems or info, or if stuff is unclear let me know and I can update/fix. (like making sure I have etim's name consistent etc) so here's v1.0 beta
Got a good deal on an original Xbox as well with component cables (I need those From and Sega exclusives
For my setup:
Wide screen=HDTV
4:3=CRT
I do not use whether something is 480p as the determining factor. It's all decided by aspect ratio. The only time where I'd violate the rule is if I saw a 480i widescreen game. Then I'd stick to a CRT.
I made this as a quick reference image for the next thread's OP if you guys like it. Also any missing systems or info, or if stuff is unclear let me know and I can update/fix. (like making sure I have etim's name consistent etc) so here's v1.0 beta
Nice list. Should include the Wii due to its utility as a retro gaming machine and being on roughly the same graphical tier as prior gen consoles. Also the library still has the feel of older systems unlike PS3/360.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Easy enough add, and most VC games output 240p right? Or should I put something in the notes for that?
dancrane212
Member
There is test firmware out for Tim Worrthington's RGB board (by Bortis over on shmups) that implements a similar debluring feature like the UltraHDMI. You'd have to flash it onto the board yourself as Tim's implementation is still in the works (though the current board has solder points for an On/Off/Auto switch) but it looks pretty good from what I've seen.
There is test firmware out for Tim Worrthington's RGB board (by Bortis over on shmups) that implements a similar debluring feature like the UltraHDMI. You'd have to flash it onto the board yourself as Tim's implementation is still in the works (though the current board has solder points for an On/Off/Auto switch) but it looks pretty good from what I've seen.
Looks good! I'm having a guy do the mod here in Canada but I can also disable AA (at least somewhat) on the Everdrive using that patch that came out earlier in the year. It's definitely an improvement for some games.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Excellent. I'll go look for a cheap PSOne. Thanks for your answer!
I made this as a quick reference image for the next thread's OP if you guys like it. Also any missing systems or info, or if stuff is unclear let me know and I can update/fix. (like making sure I have etim's name consistent etc) so here's v1.0 beta
You have RGB for Gamecube as PAL only, but you might want to add a note about S-Video on N64 and Gamecube as NTSC only.
OG Xbox 480p YPbPr 4:3 on my plasma looks great IMO! (dat jargon lol)Got a good deal on an original Xbox as well with component cables (I need those From and Sega exclusives
Shin Johnpv
Member
I can add that too, its the 2000 and 3000 models that can do it right?
I did not know that about the Gamecube and N64. SNES can do S-Video on PAL though?
*edit* looking it up it seems like PAL N64's supported S-Video but the cable is different than an NTSC one. Though it looks like some models had it removed.
Yup, and the Go I believe.
storafötter
Member
I am kinda lost at using the framemeister. I am using D-Terminal cables with a PAL ps2 (it has been modded to play NTSC games). I get sound but no picture. Just blue screen.
dancrane212
Member
Yup, first thing I tested when I got my component to bnc adapters was the PS1 240p support on the Go.
saveweyard
Banned
storafötter;218428112 said:
Is your PS2 set to display over component?
storafötter
Member
Mmm I guess I didnt think about that. Never used it with component before, only composite. So I need to switch then? Hope I find some composite cables.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
storafötter;218430221 said:
There's a setting for Component output in the menu, you need to choose "Y Cb/Pb Cr/Pr" or you'll have RGB output on those pins.
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