Shadow Hog
Member
You use SCART for your Xbox?
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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bodeiseifer
Member
i have 2 xboxs, one is spare and never gets used, once i hav my xrgb i will plug that one into it using scart to play some old xbox live arcde games, like smash tv, golden axe etc, the rgb scart signal from an xbox 360 is one of the best imo, 480p via hdmi looks atracious, not sure about 480p via component, i hear you have to feed the xrgb a signal it can upscale in order to get scanlines.
I picked up the BANDRIDGE 5 port automatic scart switch, and in short, I highly recommend it to anyone wanting a scart switch, it has 5 ports, is available in manual (£15ish) and automatic (£21) versions, the automatic is powered by a 12v 500ma transformer, has a manula override too, both have a seperate L+R audio out, and from what I have observed, no loss in quality, no loss in brightness( the image is acutally a tad brighter through this scart switcher) no noise etc, and its very cheap.
I haven't tested for interference but I never have more than one console on at a time.
Some images.
I have two of these and highly recommend it as well. There is no added noise. It's quality, and not as expensive as other scart switches.
For those of us not in a PAL/SCART region this is the cheapest place I found it that will ship overseas to US/Canada:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-performance-5-way-SCART-selector/181291441109
$31.50 USD shipped.
Edit: changed link to the ebay.com store
bodeiseifer
Member
Looking at that closer, are you refering to those weird diagonal lines/mesh pattern? I also see them on the green colour where it says start, cos that looks exactly like the image I got on my gamecube using a 3rd party cable.
baphomet
Member
Oh shit. Will definitely order a few of those tonight.
Also upset I missed out on a great deal on a super emotia on eBay like 2 days ago. I can't wait to just check everything out from 3do/Dreamcast/etc in 240p. Can't wait to play some 360 cave shmups tated on my pvm in 240p.
Actually looks like this is the one I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-performance-5-way-SCART-selector/181291441109
Ebay.com store and it's cheaper still.
metsallica
Member
Do you have a link to the automatic version?
bodine1231
Member
Decided to move my Framemeister from the living room to my spare bedroom pretty much for this reason...
Never played tate before but man what a difference it makes! I'm using a spare 23" monitor instead of the 70" in the living room which kind of sucks. I'm wondering if I should drop some coin on a used 40something inch TV.
Never played tate before but man what a difference it makes! I'm using a spare 23" monitor instead of the 70" in the living room which kind of sucks. I'm wondering if I should drop some coin on a used 40something inch TV.
Decided to move my Framemeister from the living room to my spare bedroom pretty much for this reason...
Never played tate before but man what a difference it makes! I'm using a spare 23" monitor instead of the 70" in the living room which kind of sucks. I'm wondering if I should drop some coin on a used 40something inch TV.
Did you install those furniture panels backwards?
Yeah i got one of these from Amazon.co.uk for like £10, they also do a auto switching version as well for a few pounds more
Shadow Hog
Member
Just to confirm, these manual SCART switches don't require external power, right? I'm both somewhat short on plugs, and paranoid about using PAL electric hardware in an NTSC region.
bodeiseifer
Member
Manual ones don't require power, pretty sure you could source a psu for an automatic one though in your region, aslong as it outputs 12v 500ma,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-A...ravel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item4609e9b370
that would probably be fine, it takes ntsc current of110v at 60hz
GayForMaster
Banned
There's something I don't understand, I can only feed composite to the xrgb-mini framemeister? All those rgb SCART cables I bought were useless (Well... Only 2 of them but they still tally up to $40+).
If anyone knows what I'm talking about (retro-cable-accessories), I bought my scart cable from them and it's great (but it's really not showing it's worth on my 50", and for that purpose I'm looking into investing in a proper 240p converter for all my pre-gen 6 consoles.
This company also sells SCART to XRGB 21 pin cables but from looking at images, I can only see the xrgb3 having a 21 pin input.
It's not like that's a problem... if all I can feed the framemeister is composite but isn't composite absolute dog shit? I thought it'd be better if I could feed RGB but it doesn't look like it.
If anyone knows what I'm talking about (retro-cable-accessories), I bought my scart cable from them and it's great (but it's really not showing it's worth on my 50", and for that purpose I'm looking into investing in a proper 240p converter for all my pre-gen 6 consoles.
This company also sells SCART to XRGB 21 pin cables but from looking at images, I can only see the xrgb3 having a 21 pin input.
It's not like that's a problem... if all I can feed the framemeister is composite but isn't composite absolute dog shit? I thought it'd be better if I could feed RGB but it doesn't look like it.
Eh? The whole point of the XRGB Mini is to be connected via RGB, and that's usually through SCART. My SNES and N64 worked using cheap £3 SCART câbles from eBay, and my Mega Drive needed one that cost £9.
Your setup is wrong. Make sure you are not confusing JP21 and Euro Scart. Make SURE that your cables are designed for RGB, not composite over SCART.
My setup looks like this:
2x Gamecube RGB SCART cables (works on RGB N64 and SNES) £3 each
1x EURO Scart to XRGB adapter £15
1x Mega Drive RGB csync cable £9
1x SCART switcher £10 from argos
and obviously it's outputting RGB, as this shitty phone camera image shows:
also, looking at my image above makes me realize that putting the RGB connector at the front was a fucking stupid idea. GG, micomsoft
GayForMaster
Banned
I don't have a setup yet haha.
Now I see it, so there's a composite in AS WELL as an RGB in. Great. And I see you're using a splitter for the purpose of using all your scart cables.
So right now I've got a NTSC SNES/NES/N64 rgb scart, as well as a PS1/PS2 (although I'm gonna use component for PS2 and gamecube). I'm going to pick up a Genesis/master system SCART cable.
So pretty much what I need is an HDMI cable (which I obviously already have lol) as well as a SCART to RGB in for the micomsoft?
Does the framemeister come with a SCART to RGB in?
EDIT: Didn't see that you spent 15 on the converter haha. Ok.
Your post was very informative dude. I really only thought I could feed comp to it lol.
That's cool, but remember:
You will get an adapter that looks like that inside the box with the XRGB. DO NOT USE THAT WITH EURO SCART CABLES, YOU WILL FUCK THE MINI UP. JP21 and Euro Scart look the same, but the voltage is on different pins.
If you are going the cheaper Euro SCART route, you need the same adapter cable I have.
You will get an adapter that looks like that inside the box with the XRGB. DO NOT USE THAT WITH EURO SCART CABLES, YOU WILL FUCK THE MINI UP. JP21 and Euro Scart look the same, but the voltage is on different pins.
If you are going the cheaper Euro SCART route, you need the same adapter cable I have.
GayForMaster
Banned
Perhaps this?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Micomsoft-XR...ideo_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2587f17fcf
It says it works on the following "NTSC" consoles.
thats the one
soxinthebox
Member
This is kind of related to the whole upscaling thing:
Retroactive is developing a digital HDMI output mod for the N64. It takes the digital video and audio data directly off the system's motherboard, meaning no more analog signals. It's impossible to get better N64 image quality than this.
http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php
Damn that's sharp. Hopefully it's not astronomically priced...
meanspartan
Member
DOes anyone know if this thing improves the picture at all? Obviously, from the price I can assume it won't do what the XRGB mini does, but anyone have any experience with it? http://www.rakuten.com/prod/scart-h...mm-coaxial/250944285.html?listingId=290155691
GayForMaster
Banned
Alright thanks. I gotta say though, I'm a bit sad that PS1/SegaCD isn't on that list.
I have a YUV SCART to component converter that I use, and that device you linked just now is statistically better that what I have. Not to mention it also doesn't require an extra stupid audio scart adapter thing. That thing is so bad because it's loose and makes my image green unless I position it correctly. I'd say go for it if you're not gonna framemeister, and if your TV can do 240p well. I get a pretty picture on my 48" Samsung but not on my 50" Hitachi. That's the only reason I'm going Framemeister.
EDIT: Well shit, after some testing I realized that stupid audio adapter was making my visuals look like shit.
This is a shit quality camera but the visuals actually look pretty damn good.
I might just pick up that adapter you linked since it's not only better than the YUV but also doesn't require an external piece of shit audio adapter. Gonna hold off on the framemeister until it comes in and see what it looks like.
IrishNinja
Member
what games does it have, though? as a sega fan i'd pretty much just grab it for the novelty but i gotta see stuff to bump it up on my list.
wow, first time seeing screenshots but i'm sold, will likely look for this mod when it's out & properly priced.
damn, i hadn't really considered a switch in a bit but your shots look good, and i can work with 5 slots for now...kinda tempted to grab 2 cause i'm up to that many cables or so. can you get a bit into what the auto vs manual do? not sure about override etc but if i can avoid using an AC port i will.
meanspartan
Member
Cool thanks for the advice. Ya Framemeister looks amazing, but $400 just isn't realistic for me right now. If this thing is going to improve my picture on a budget, then that would be fantastic.
I would of course need to buy SCART cables though too for my systems. No idea if those get pricey.
GayForMaster
Banned
Hold on, before you buy that Converter! That might be fraudulent. THIS is what you want.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00988GMLG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I got the info from this video. The amazon one is the one he has, and if you noticed, it has that CVID label on the top and a BG-460 on the bottom.
I have to see if I can find this in Canada haha. Also, I suppose they do get a bit pricey. There's probably 30 a pop, but you'll only need a maximum of 3. 1 that works on all nintendo consoles (Except ntsc cube/wii). 1 that does PS1/PS2/PS3 and 1 that does Sega consoles (Right before dreamcast I think). You'll spend a maximum of 90 or a minimum of 30 (It was 36ish for me and I'm in canada).
EDIT: I lol'd, in his video the CVID and BG-460 labels are missing... I guess the first link you linked is probably the same thing, but his link was specifically amazon... Meh.
that's my next goal. after my attempt to get RGB out of the N64 failed, i remembered this was in the works but it seems to be taking quite a while to progress. at least that gives me plenty of time to have money saved.
meanspartan
Member
Thanks for the heads up.
When it comes to SCART cables, do I need to worry about PAL vs. NTSC or any of that?
EDIT: And to be clear, the main reason the Framemeister costs way more is because this isn't doing any actual upscaling right? It is just converting the superior RGB signal into 720p?
I wish I could have a direct comparison between the two to see exactly how much that approximately $300 price difference nets you in picture quality.
GayForMaster
Banned
Are you an NTSC guy?
I think Retro Accessories is the only store that sells the best legit SCART cables that work with NTSC consoles. If you buy normal euro SCART cables I think it might break your console. I can personally tell you that the cables I bought from these dudes have made me happy.
From the looks of their page though it looks like they're all out of NES/SNES/N64 scart cables, uh oh.
Euro scart cables would never break an NTSC console dude. That's totally not true - to the other guy, it does not matter if cables are PAL or not unless you're talking about the SNES.
Source: all my consoles are NTSC, all the cables are PAL. Even the SFC cable is a PAL GameCube scart.
Source: all my consoles are NTSC, all the cables are PAL. Even the SFC cable is a PAL GameCube scart.
GayForMaster
Banned
Ah, I wasn't sure myself. Interesting.
meanspartan
Member
So what is the deal with SNES then?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
PAL systems output +12V on pin 3.
NTSC systems output CSync on pin 3.
Using the wrong cable for your system might not give you a picture, but it's not going to break your console.
I'm pretty sure that outputting a video signal in a higher resolution than the source is the literal definition of "upscaling."
bodine1231
Member
Lol,yeah. I'm to lazy to take it apart and fix it.
IrishNinja
Member
you could paint them black
nobody'd ever know
nobody'd ever know
Ban Puncher
Member
We will know...
bodeiseifer
Member
There is a fully manual one that doesnt come with or require an AC adaptor, just go for that, its a bit cheaper too, it has 5 buttons on the front that correspond to each input, the automatic version has them too, though they aren't really needed but some people insist on being able to manually select an input.
I doubt the automatic version will function without the ac adaptor, as just a manual switcher despite having select buttons for each input, I would imagine the buttons on the manaul only unit are somewhat different and physically make contact when depressed with the circuit, whereas the buttons on the automatic unit seem to just trigger a microswitch linked to a circuit board, but dont quote me on that.
meanspartan
Member
I'm pretty sure that outputting a video signal in a higher resolution than the source is the literal definition of "upscaling."
Ya, ya, I know, I'm ignorant. So what IS the difference then? Framemeister must be doing something to justify that huge price difference.
of course it does. the framemeister upscales like no other. it does this, as displayed by my photos:
it's glorious
Not all upscalers are created equal. Many things can factor in, including picture clarity, what signals cane be accepted, input lag (due to upscaling process) , and many others. I cant think of the name right now, but there is an excellent site the reviews practically every new piece of upscaling hardware. I think its called "hazardcity" or something similar. Im on my phone and not it a great place to do so at thr moment.
meanspartan
Member
Thanks guys!
I'll do my homework and get informed on this stuff before I decide whether to go with the $50 upscaler or save up for a Framemeister.
I am also toying with the idea of going the emulation-box route with a Retron 5 whenever that comes out, if the reviews of it are good. I know upscaling is always gonna be way better than emulation, but if the retron 5 achieves at least a "good enough" picture on my HDTV for my old games, then I may just do that.
Right now I'm feeding my SNES and Genesis to my HDTV with composite, and it ain't pretty.
I'll do my homework and get informed on this stuff before I decide whether to go with the $50 upscaler or save up for a Framemeister.
I am also toying with the idea of going the emulation-box route with a Retron 5 whenever that comes out, if the reviews of it are good. I know upscaling is always gonna be way better than emulation, but if the retron 5 achieves at least a "good enough" picture on my HDTV for my old games, then I may just do that.
Right now I'm feeding my SNES and Genesis to my HDTV with composite, and it ain't pretty.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This isn't necessarily true.
That said, I'm always skeptical of clone consoles and emulator boxes, so I'd definitely recommend waiting for detailed reviews on the Retron 5 before jumping on that train.
Thanks! Thats the one.
The mini is my third upscaler and its been worth every penny. I primarily play retro games though.
baphomet
Member
After working my ass off tonight I finally got to do something I've been wanting to for a bit now. The jacks could look better, but it's not made to be pretty. It's made to be functional. Game Gear modded for RGB and S-video, as well as a controller port for a Master System Controller. Made with Tim Worthington's GGTV board. Super happy with how it turned out.
Only slightly more useful than my RGB 3DO though.
with the jacks were even with each other, but they're not too bad.
on my pvm
on my xrgb mini
Only slightly more useful than my RGB 3DO though.
Looks amazing!
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, the GG seems to only have a small library of non-SMS stuff, but you really went all out man - looks good by me!
baphomet
Member
Well the goal to be able to capture footage in rgb of all my consoles is basically done. Only thing left I want to do is mod my SMS for FM sound. Other than that only thing is to start learning some video editing software, then I can start piecing together a few videos.
Hmmm, surely there has to be an acceptable third party cable out there somewhere.
Unlike the component cable, with the special DAC chip, the RGB cable should be easily reproducible.
IrishNinja
Member
think i got something you might be interested in, man!
also, Mzo has been getting into video editing recently, might be worth hitting him up for stuff like that.
baphomet
Member
Interesting for sure. I'd probably just put the fm board in my sms because otherwise the poor thing is in the bottom of my closet looking sad as hell. Plus Tim is supposed to have more in this month.
I'll keep that in mind about Mzo. I've been around editing quite a bit, but never really messed with it myself. Curious to see what i come up with.
What exactly are you wanting? I took a look at your starfox picture and am going to see if i get the same pattern using my rgb cables and pal cube.
i know i definitely got much better quality with the rgb cable on my pal cube compared to svideo on my ntsc cube. May just be an issue with your cable?
After checking just now i also get the same interference on the title screen. Only seems to be on the blues though.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Hey all, I'm about to make a six hour drive to Cali to pick up a PVM this weekend. At first, I was looking at the Sony BVM-20F1U, which is supposed to be one of Sony's top tiers (I think the 20E1U does 1000 lines as opposed to 800 or 900 that the F1U does) but then I saw it didn't do S-video. I'm hoping to have all of my consoles outputting RGB at one point, but I'd still rather have the option for S-video.
The buyer then told me the PVM 20L5 would be a good choice because it uses the same tube as the BVM 20F1U, has the S-video and is self terminating (?) I know what I'm asking is real specific, but can anyone confirm that? It's tough to find information other than what's scattered on message boards, so I'll keep looking, but I thought I'd ask Gaf while I search.
The buyer then told me the PVM 20L5 would be a good choice because it uses the same tube as the BVM 20F1U, has the S-video and is self terminating (?) I know what I'm asking is real specific, but can anyone confirm that? It's tough to find information other than what's scattered on message boards, so I'll keep looking, but I thought I'd ask Gaf while I search.
Oh, man. I'm talentless but I would freakin' love to have that done. I'm going to have to troll the Sega boards to see if anyone is performing that mod. Well done!
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