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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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B

bodeiseifer

Member
Got a customs letter from PARCELFORCE in the post today concerning my XRGB Mini, £62.50 or $104.302 in import duties to pay :(

I should've followed "richisawesome"s advice and ordered from Solaris direct, it seems they mostly mark their packages as having a value of $20 or less, the ebay seller I got mine through was cheaper than Solaris but with the customs fee, I've ended up paying out more.

Just a heads up for anyone else considering where to order from.
 
panda-zebra

panda-zebra

Member
bodeiseifer said:
Got a customs letter from PARCELFORCE in the post today concerning my XRGB Mini, £62.50 or $104.302 in import duties to pay :(

I should've followed "richisawesome"s advice and ordered from Solaris direct, it seems they mostly mark their packages as having a value of $20 or less, the ebay seller I got mine through was cheaper than Solaris but with the customs fee, I've ended up paying out more.

Just a heads up for anyone else considering where to order from.
Click to expand...

Yeah there's the taxes and their "handling fee" which is around £8 or so from what I remember, all adds up. Luckily I'd read about Solaris' "kind" valuation on their packages and went with them (having been stung previously paying for three items and essentially having to pay for a fourth in tax/handling).
 
M

metsallica

Member
Shining said:
Dude, don't use Meister mode. It's a combination of image mode "GAME_1" and scanlines. Game_1 applies a low pass filter which blurs out some fine detail in the picture. Instead you should select image mode "PICTURE" and manually enable scanlines with the C button.
Click to expand...
To echo some earlier sentiments in this thread, I wish there was a comprehensive list of XRGB mini settings somewhere, because it really seems to vary from console to console and TV to TV. I'm currently trying to get Mega Man 2 to look nice through it which has been a struggle (that Bubble Man opening is ROUGH no matter how much I tweak)... And on my Saturn I'm getting "fat" scanlines interposed with regular ones. I know there's a setting to modify that but it's not exactly intuitive. Nor do I expect a Japanese product to be, but there seems to be enough foreign interest in the device; there's a wiki and tons of forums discussing, but a comprehensive repository sure would be nice. For as fun as tinkering with it is, the menus, remote, and the device itself are a little cumbersome to use. C'est la vie!
 
bodine1231

bodine1231

Member
Shining said:
Dude, don't use Meister mode. It's a combination of image mode "GAME_1" and scanlines. Game_1 applies a low pass filter which blurs out some fine detail in the picture. Instead you should select image mode "PICTURE" and manually enable scanlines with the C button.
Click to expand...

Wait,what? From everything I've read/watched on Youtube everyone just uses Meister mode. What do you mean about enabling scanlines with the C button?

Edit: Ok I just looked at a picture of the controller and see the C button. Now I gotta wait three hours before I can try this shit,argh.
 
M

metsallica

Member
bodine1231 said:
Wait,what? From everything I've read/watched on Youtube everyone just uses Meister mode. What do you mean about enabling scanlines with the C button?

Edit: Ok I just looked at a picture of the controller and see the C button. Now I gotta wait three hours before I can try this shit,argh.
Click to expand...
Get that English overlay! $8, worth every cent.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
C button just turns on/off scanlines for every mode, so technically you're checking if PICTURE mode looks better.

(I should check to see what mine's set up with...)
 
P

Pancakes R Us

Member
bodeiseifer said:
Got a customs letter from PARCELFORCE in the post today concerning my XRGB Mini, £62.50 or $104.302 in import duties to pay :(

I should've followed "richisawesome"s advice and ordered from Solaris direct, it seems they mostly mark their packages as having a value of $20 or less, the ebay seller I got mine through was cheaper than Solaris but with the customs fee, I've ended up paying out more.

Just a heads up for anyone else considering where to order from.
Click to expand...
Did they also charge you an £8 'admin' fee? It's a bloody joke.
 
M

Madao

Member
speaking of switches, are HDMI switches completely lag-free or does it depend on the switch itself?

how about HDMI signal splitters?
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Madao said:
speaking of switches, are HDMI switches completely lag-free or does it depend on the switch itself?

how about HDMI signal splitters?
Click to expand...

Should all be lag free. It's an all-digital connection, so it's not converting anything or at risk of delay due to some analog flaw.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Aw crap, 2 post fail :p`

Shining said:
Dude, don't use Meister mode. It's a combination of image mode "GAME_1" and scanlines. Game_1 applies a low pass filter which blurs out some fine detail in the picture. Instead you should select image mode "PICTURE" and manually enable scanlines with the C button.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend the Meister mode only for composite video inputs (for example, those who don't have their NES in RGB). It could really use the low-pass filter, and bad signals is probably why micomsoft put one in there in the first place.
 
B

bodeiseifer

Member
Pancakes R Us said:
Did they also charge you an £8 'admin' fee? It's a bloody joke.
Click to expand...

£48 or so was vat duty, the rest was a handling fee, kinda extorionate if you aske me, charging nearly £20 quid just to open a package, look at the receipt, work out the tax duty, then reseal it and pass it on, but what can you do?

Pretty expensive endeavour this xrgb mini, including all the relevant cable convertors it easily gone over £300 and I havent yet bought a stepdown transformer yet either.
 
Bog

Bog

Junior Ace
Everyone mentions SCART switches, but has anyone seen anything like that for the Japanese Framemeister-included connector?
 
M

metsallica

Member
A JP21 switch? I'm sure they exist, but most people here just replace the XRGB mini dongle with a EUROSCART one or get an adapter that you can use a EUROSCART switch with (which is what I have, though I haven't found a suitable switch yet). The adapter also has the added benefit of audio breakout which might be necessary depending on your setup.

EUROSCART to JP21 adapter with audio breakout: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201031552003
EUROSCART XRGBmini dongle (passive): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-X...ideo_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2ece956f82
EUROSCART XRGBmini dongle (sync boosted): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-X...ideo_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2587f17fcf
 
P

Pancakes R Us

Member
bodeiseifer said:
£48 or so was vat duty, the rest was a handling fee, kinda extorionate if you aske me, charging nearly £20 quid just to open a package, look at the receipt, work out the tax duty, then reseal it and pass it on, but what can you do?

Pretty expensive endeavour this xrgb mini, including all the relevant cable convertors it easily gone over £300 and I havent yet bought a stepdown transformer yet either.
Click to expand...
This is the fucked up thing. How is it that the government can't create an option where we pre-pay the import tax ourselves (a self service option, if you will) so that we can avoid the disgusting 'admin' fees which is just a way to fleece us.
 
Y

Yes Boss!

Member
Bog said:
Everyone mentions SCART switches, but has anyone seen anything like that for the Japanese Framemeister-included connector?
Click to expand...

Selecty-21 is the official Micomsoft product. About $100 but it does hsve extra stuff to better handle PCBs and stuff.
 
baphomet

baphomet

Member
Awwww yea!
Me91D0y.jpg

yZMdwvY.jpg
Click to expand...

My girlfriend is the absolute best girlfriend in the world.
 
S

Shining

Member
metsallica said:
To echo some earlier sentiments in this thread, I wish there was a comprehensive list of XRGB mini settings somewhere, because it really seems to vary from console to console and TV to TV. I'm currently trying to get Mega Man 2 to look nice through it which has been a struggle (that Bubble Man opening is ROUGH no matter how much I tweak)... And on my Saturn I'm getting "fat" scanlines interposed with regular ones. I know there's a setting to modify that but it's not exactly intuitive. Nor do I expect a Japanese product to be, but there seems to be enough foreign interest in the device; there's a wiki and tons of forums discussing, but a comprehensive repository sure would be nice. For as fun as tinkering with it is, the menus, remote, and the device itself are a little cumbersome to use. C'est la vie!
Click to expand...
It definitely needs to be done. Compared to the XRGB-3, the Mini has gotten quite popular. I only use 240p consoles hooked up with RGB cables with the Mini and here's the settings i find to be optimal for my setup:

General
HDMI output resolution: 720p (1080p has broken scanlines. Also, if you fiddle with the H/V_Width settings, that can also mess up the scanlines in 720p)
Image/processing mode: Picture
Zoom setting: Standard or Normal 2

Visual_set menu
Sync_mode: Auto
Auto_Scaler: set to OFF
H_scaler: set to 5 (if you switch between 5 and 6 you will notice a tiny bit of extra sharpness when set to 5)
V_scaler: set to 6
Scanlines A: set to 80

Color menu
Brightness: 22
Black levels: 2
Gamma: 6
Sharpness: 0 (sometimes set to 1)

bodine1231 said:
Wait,what? From everything I've read/watched on Youtube everyone just uses Meister mode. What do you mean about enabling scanlines with the C button?

Edit: Ok I just looked at a picture of the controller and see the C button. Now I gotta wait three hours before I can try this shit,argh.
Click to expand...


Shadow Hog said:
C button just turns on/off scanlines for every mode, so technically you're checking if PICTURE mode looks better.

(I should check to see what mine's set up with...)
Click to expand...
This. Here's an example with some crappy pictures i found on the interwebz of what the low pass filter can do in some games. The first one is from a SNES hooked up directly to the TV. The second is hooked up to the Mini with the low pass filter activated. If you look at the bridge to the right you can see that the bricks are all blurred out and smudgy:

crono_pana.jpg


crono_mini.jpg


BocoDragon said:
I'd recommend the Meister mode only for composite video inputs (for example, those who don't have their NES in RGB). It could really use the low-pass filter, and bad signals is probably why micomsoft put one in there in the first place.
Click to expand...
This man speaks the truth.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
he really does; boco not only helped convince me to invest in an XRGB about a year ago, his meister suggestion for non-modded NES does help. also your settings are close to mine, i scale up the scanlines a bit (i likes em thick)! but im having a weird issue post latest firmware where even turning them off leaves them on, it's odd. also my gamma is a bit higher but my plasma is dark and some DC titles like RE2/3 are super dark if i don't amp it up.
 
S

Superblatt

Member
WTOwEPA.jpg
Click to expand...

Well I finally found a Sony PVM locally in Chicago and jumped on it. It's the 14" version which is perfect for my setup -- see above. My snes, genesis and saturn all have S-video currently. The snes and saturn look great...but will going to scart/rgb improve it enough that I'll definitely see the difference? I'm close to pulling the trigger for the stuff I think I need from retrogamingcables.com. Worth it I assume?
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
Superblatt said:
Well I finally found a Sony PVM locally in Chicago and jumped on it. It's the 14" version which is perfect for my setup -- see above. My snes, genesis and saturn all have S-video currently. The snes and saturn look great...but will going to scart/rgb improve it enough that I'll definitely see the difference? I'm close to pulling the trigger for the stuff I think I need from retrogamingcables.com. Worth it I assume?
Click to expand...

That looks cozy as fuck <3

RGB is always worth it.
 
V

Voliko

Member
Superblatt said:
Well I finally found a Sony PVM locally in Chicago and jumped on it. It's the 14" version which is perfect for my setup -- see above. My snes, genesis and saturn all have S-video currently. The snes and saturn look great...but will going to scart/rgb improve it enough that I'll definitely see the difference? I'm close to pulling the trigger for the stuff I think I need from retrogamingcables.com. Worth it I assume?
Click to expand...
Damn nice find. The cables aren't that expensive and I definitely think it's worth it. Hoping to find a PVM around here one of these days...
 
S

Superblatt

Member
Voliko said:
Damn nice find. The cables aren't that expensive and I definitely think it's worth it. Hoping to find a PVM around here one of these days...
Click to expand...

I've been looking for quite some time. Was able to negotiate it down to $65. Here are the cables I'm looking at. Can anyone confirm this is the right stuff? Looking to get my snes, genesis and nes in RGB on my PVM.

eR9F0zn.jpg
Click to expand...

Right stuff?
 
baphomet

baphomet

Member
Everything but that nes cable. That's going to make the image look exactly the same as it already does with composite. Other than that you're good.
 
P

Peagles

Member
Superblatt said:
I've been looking for quite some time. Was able to negotiate it down to $65. Here are the cables I'm looking at. Can anyone confirm this is the right stuff? Looking to get my snes, genesis and nes in RGB on my PVM.



Right stuff?
Click to expand...

Your NES is RGB modded right?
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
S

Superblatt

Member
IrishNinja said:
it's not nearly as bad as it was, m'man! board is affordable, good mod from my man bapho (even with shipping) still puts you well below what it cost for years for gutting a playchoice 10, and none of the guilt. totally worth it! .
Click to expand...

Who is bapho and what's the cost? I have both a top loader and toaster thst I could mod
 
A

antibolo

Banned
Superblatt said:
Well I finally found a Sony PVM locally in Chicago and jumped on it. It's the 14" version which is perfect for my setup -- see above. My snes, genesis and saturn all have S-video currently. The snes and saturn look great...but will going to scart/rgb improve it enough that I'll definitely see the difference? I'm close to pulling the trigger for the stuff I think I need from retrogamingcables.com. Worth it I assume?
Click to expand...

On a PVM the difference between s-video and RGB is usually pretty small because the PVMs have really high-end s-video signal processing. RGB is still better of course, but if you have all your stuff already working nicely in s-video I would recommend just keeping everything as-is.

But if you do buy RGB cables make sure your PVM actually supports RGB first, some 14 inch models only do component (ie. YBrCr), and some don't do either at all.

Also since you're in the US I would strongly recommend getting cables from retro_console_accessories on eBay.
 
Y

Yes Boss!

Member
I recently got two of those little 14" PVMs and I have to disagree about the small difference between S-Video and RGB. RGB is tons better. S-Video is closer to composite. RGB is a whole other level of quality.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
metsallica said:
Anyone see this or have any thoughts on it? http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php. It's like the NESRGB in that it's a separate board that needs to be soldered in but adds HDMI/DVI/VGA output to a N64. Not sure how much that'll help a 320x240 / 640x480 image but the work looks very clean and it's at least a nice idea!
Click to expand...
More technical details are needed. I'm pretty sure the original 240p signal isn't HDMI compatible, so there's the question of what exactly this board does with the video signal in order to produce something functional.
 
P

Peagles

Member
Yes Boss! said:
I recently got two of those little 14" PVMs and I have to disagree about the small difference between S-Video and RGB. RGB is tons better. S-Video is closer to composite. RGB is a whole other level of quality.
Click to expand...

I agree, I started with svideo while I began to gather RGB cables and RGB is in a league of its own. Also, if you're gonna get a PVM you may as we'll go for the best quality possible.
 
R

Rich!

Member
Is it just me, or does anyone else have issues with their Framemeister XRGB Mini remote control? It hardly ever works - I've tried new batteries to no avail. Bizzarely, I've loaded up the commands from the remote into my HTC One as a remote control, and that doesn't work either. I've confirmed the remote is working - but the XRGB just isn't accepting any commands via IR half the time

wut
 
H

HaL64

Member
antibolo said:
On a PVM the difference between s-video and RGB is usually pretty small because the PVMs have really high-end s-video signal processing. RGB is still better of course, but if you have all your stuff already working nicely in s-video I would recommend just keeping everything as-is.
Click to expand...

This is the opposite of what is true on both of my sony PVMs. A 2950Q and a 2030. The RGB is way better than the s-video quality. It's not even a contest. I don't care how high end the decoder is. The data is just simply lost when combining the chrominance subcarriers. You are going to get crosstalk.
And the reason they are actually so different is the PVMs are so good at RGB. They are essentially reference monitors.
 
Randomizer

Randomizer

Member
Going to attempt a 50/60hz switch and region free mod on both my PAL SNES and Mega Drive 2. Have to order some RGB cables for them first. Anyone have any experience with this?

Seems easy enough, but I might need to head to a car boot to see if I can snag a backup for each, just incase I balls it up.
 
R

Rich!

Member
Randomizer said:
Going to attempt a 50/60hz switch and region free mod on both my PAL SNES and Mega Drive 2. Have to order some RGB cables for them first. Anyone have any experience with this?

Seems easy enough, but I might need to head to a car boot to see if I can snag a backup for each, just incase I balls it up.
Click to expand...

easy. just make sure you install two switches on your PAL SNES for both the region lock and the 50/60hz or you'll run into trouble.

as for the MD, I don't know too much about that, but you'll want two on there too - one for the region and one for 50/60hz.
 
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