Dude Abides
Banned
Society hasn't degraded.
US Gun Control General Discussion Thread
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Society hasn't degraded.
"Keeping a gun in the home carries a murder risk 2.7 times greater than not keeping one, according to a study by Arthur Kellermann."
Dreams-Visions
Member
I carry concealed. Have spent a good amount of time training and at ranges with police officers, so I'd feel quite comfortable defending my life with my firearms if need be.
I'm as nice as they come. Inner city high school counselling volunteer, tutoring, and just a cool person. I carry as an insurance policy and the small size of my sub-compact makes it fairly comfortable and convenient.
In the *extremely* unlikely scenario where defending my life or someone else's from what appears to be an imminent and real threat of serious injury or death...God help the assailant. To me, it's just like insurance. I expect to never, ever have to use it. BUT....if I do need to use it (and for me to pull it out, I'd really need to feel out of options) I'll be glad it's there.
That said, I think there needs to be better enforcement of the gun control laws we have now. Too many seemingly unstable people slip through the cracks. I'm also not a fan of shotguns and such being sold without checks from stores like Wal-Mart.
I'm not a fan of adding additional laws, as I haven't seen many suggestions that are realistic. Maybe some alterations to existing laws, but that depends on the state. Not all laws and all states are the same, you know?
[citation needed]
Most gun owners keep their shit under lock & key. I'm not sure how fast people can find a key to pull a gun lock off their firearm when someone is breaking into their home.
I think you may be right for singles who keep their firearms at arm's reach...but most do not.
I'm as nice as they come. Inner city high school counselling volunteer, tutoring, and just a cool person. I carry as an insurance policy and the small size of my sub-compact makes it fairly comfortable and convenient.
In the *extremely* unlikely scenario where defending my life or someone else's from what appears to be an imminent and real threat of serious injury or death...God help the assailant. To me, it's just like insurance. I expect to never, ever have to use it. BUT....if I do need to use it (and for me to pull it out, I'd really need to feel out of options) I'll be glad it's there.
That said, I think there needs to be better enforcement of the gun control laws we have now. Too many seemingly unstable people slip through the cracks. I'm also not a fan of shotguns and such being sold without checks from stores like Wal-Mart.
I'm not a fan of adding additional laws, as I haven't seen many suggestions that are realistic. Maybe some alterations to existing laws, but that depends on the state. Not all laws and all states are the same, you know?
[citation needed]
Most gun owners keep their shit under lock & key. I'm not sure how fast people can find a key to pull a gun lock off their firearm when someone is breaking into their home.
I think you may be right for singles who keep their firearms at arm's reach...but most do not.
If you're going to be that blatant of a troll don't bother posting.
Is that statistic including family members that use the gun on other family members? Are they counting killing intruders as "murder"?
Maybe not all the time. A robber come into your house, but if you're not armed he will probably leave you alone. Sure he will be able to steal some things, but you'll still be alive. But if you come to him with a gun in your hand, he probably wouldn't hesitate to shoot if he is faster than you.
Mind you i have never been a victim of robbers, armed or not, so i might be completely wrong.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I wouldn't go so far as to say "probably leave you alone", but the point about escalation of violence is one I agree with.
I wish there was a statistic that showed how much more or less likely you were to get killed if you confront a burglar with a gun.
There is always that study I show where it says you are anywhere from 2-5x more likely to get shot and killed if you own a gun (depending on the context - always more likely though).
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Would it be feasible for the government to drastically strengthen penalties for illegal gun ownership?
I know people are divided on the whole ownership/conceal-carry debate, but we can at least agree that we don't like illegal guns, right?
I don't know what the penalty for illegal gun ownership in America is at the moment (though it obviously would differ from state to state), but I'm picturing something like... 10-15 years jail with chance of parole for the ownership of a firearm without proper registration.
Why does something like that sound so crazy in my head? Wouldn't we want something like that in order to encourage the proper consideration an instrument of death requires/deter all but the most hardened of criminals?
I know people are divided on the whole ownership/conceal-carry debate, but we can at least agree that we don't like illegal guns, right?
I don't know what the penalty for illegal gun ownership in America is at the moment (though it obviously would differ from state to state), but I'm picturing something like... 10-15 years jail with chance of parole for the ownership of a firearm without proper registration.
Why does something like that sound so crazy in my head? Wouldn't we want something like that in order to encourage the proper consideration an instrument of death requires/deter all but the most hardened of criminals?
Baconsammy
Banned
Or you could miss and shoot your own child.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
100% guarantee? So we're back to paranoia.
Hari Seldon
Member
Cause it is a loser issue, especially in the swing states that Obama needs to win.
Yeah, i should probably have said "he will point his gun at you and tell you to stay there" rather than "leaving you alone".
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's a bit ridiculous even for me
I always thought that.
Burglars are pussies, give them a gun and they are very dangerous pussies.
I remember reading a news story on gaf where a person who broke into a home ordered a family on the ground and killed them all on the way out anyways despite them showing no evidence of fighting back.
Some people just don't give a fuck. Is that a chance you'd really want to take if you didn't have to?
Some said that guns cause people to fight rather than flight, resulting in confrontation, shooting first rather than taking time to find alternative.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Sometimes bad things happen that will be out of your control. You can either live in fear or you can understand this.
The thing, like I said before, is that violent crime is very scary. You're much more likely to die in a car crash but it's not a scary thing so people don't get all paranoid about it.
Some states actually already require you to look for alternatives before using deadly force.
I doubt if you ever do come across a armed robber you would want to test that assumption.
If you juxtapose that with an anecdote of someone pulling a gun on a burglar and getting shot and killed for it - would it make a difference? There should be more research done on this, considering it literally is life and death - but most of what I've seen doesn't support the idea that statistically owning a gun makes you any more safe.
Living in Canada where most normal people dont have guns? Yes, i dont feel like having a gun at home is necessary.
I guess i would be more paranoid if i lived in a country like the USA where even your neighbors have one.
It's probably safer to just let them have your stuff than get in a shoot out with them. I mean, it's just stuff.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It depends on what other chances are involved, which is the argument some of us are making.
shinobi602
Member
I don't leave something like me and my family's lives to chance.
Given how some people in the UK get so worked up over a neighbour's hedge being too tall, if they are all armed it would be a bloodbath.
Assuming they're there for just stuff. If I actually had a family, I'd be worried for more than just my stuff. I mean what if they decided they want to rape my wife while they're at it? Kidnap my children? I don't have a family and thus feel no need to have such protection, but if I did...
Dreams-Visions
Member
there is such thing as "active defense", you know.
My gun is for defense, just like my fists are. Attack me and I'll use my fists defensively unless the danger to my life is greater in which case you'll see a .40 caliber barrel pointed at you instead. Neither of my weapons seek out a fight, but they're for damn sure capable of ending one.
a friend of a Doctor my father trained had his family held at gun point, daughters raped while the mother went to the bank to get money, and all murdered when she returned. This was a couple of years ago. Crazy.
hear hear.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
I agree?
ElectricBlue187
Member
an assault rifle is an attacking weapon it has "assault" in the name. But a pump shotgun or small handgun? They have defense written all over them. Guns are too varied for your assertion.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
But by owning/drawing a gun you introduce other chances.
If that happened to my family I don't think I'd ever recover from the damage that would do to me =/.
do you carry a fire extinguisher incase you get caught in a building fire? how about an epipen incase you eat something and have some unknown allergic reaction? or a monoxide alarm?
Dreams-Visions
Member
here's the story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders
I'm sure it would have been on GAF. I wasn't a regular back then so idk. But the shit was ill.
If the building is up to code, it will have fire extinguishers available. I have a fire extinguisher in my home as well.
Oh, and when I travel, I take a Cipro.
I even bought an extended warranty on my laptop and have a warranty on my car. Crazy, huh?
any other questions?
I know if anyone told me they had a gun I would think they a nut job or something.
RedNalgene
Member
The other scary point to consider is that you don't have to pass a shooting test to buy a gun. Just because you own a gun doesn't mean you know how to use it. Would you allow your 16 year old to get behind the wheel of a car and hop on the highway right away? Of course not. You'd expect to first drive in a parking lot at slow speed, then take driver's ed where they are on side streets for a while, and only after many hours of side street driving would you allow them onto the highway.
Then why is it OK for someone to buy a gun and expect to be able to use it effectively right away? I know many police officers and the amount of gun training they go through is RIDICULOUS. There's a reason for that.
Then why is it OK for someone to buy a gun and expect to be able to use it effectively right away? I know many police officers and the amount of gun training they go through is RIDICULOUS. There's a reason for that.
I would be okay with mandatory training if it came with the price of the gun.
Dreams-Visions
Member
speaking of which, my mother's home (pretty decent suburb) was broken into at least twice. once a guy climbed through a kitchen window while she was asleep. fortunately the guy only stole some electronics and didn't see if he could get his hands on some jewelry from the bedroom.
thing is, there is a certain amount of training that is mandatory if you want to get a Concealed Carry license. You have to sit through a couple of very informative classes lead by police officers, learn how to properly hold and aim a gun, and you get intimately familiar with laws that come with that gun you've bought.
if you're not carrying a gun...I don't know if you're that big of a threat. but idk. I haven't really thought about that.
shinobi602
Member
The whole thing just boggles my mind.
But the NRA and the amount of money made from new gun sales each year might have something to do with it, as well as keeping society in a permanent state of fear that you should get one to protect yourself.
When society should be doing that anyway! Madness.
RedNalgene
Member
The NRA is a very large, vocal, and powerful lobby. That's what makes any kind of gun law change so difficult.
maniac-kun
Member
Jep. Same.
They also provide the fake arguments that you are fighting in this thread.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
If you ever go to a gun range and see those police you trust with your life shoot, most shoot like novices compared to the regulars at the range.
Watching things like the primaries and debates over there, it comes across like professional wrestling really. The republican primaries especially seemed like political satire dressed up as meant to be something serious.
It's just like people in suits speaking bollocks, even more than we get over here. And where a scandal is like buying a floating duck house with public money. There are limits on how much any party can spend in elections and how many television adverts they can run.
US politics seems completely bankrolled by money, with just wrestling style figureheads to latch onto, and money isn't given expecting nothing back. It's vested interests, the whole system must be so completely corrupt by how much money is swimming around in it. In the same way US society seems so violent by how many guns are swimming around it.
Maybe it's just how we are shown it over here, but it all seems such a complete mess.
lol sorta true. I outshot my friend who is a Federal Agent when taking concealed classes. He was there for his dad.
So far you've had two absolutely GOLD statements in this thread. I can't wait to read more of them.
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