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[Incognito]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20794-2004Oct9.html

"I feel we're going to be here for years and years and years," said Lance Cpl. Edward Elston, 22, of Hackettstown, N.J. "I don't think anything is going to get better; I think it's going to get a lot worse. It's going to be like a Palestinian-type deal. We're going to stop being a policing presence and then start being an occupying presence. . . . We're always going to be here. We're never going to leave."

Several members of the platoon said they were struck by the difference between the way the war was being portrayed in the United States and the reality of their daily lives.

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like, 'Oh, it's getting better and better,' " said Lance Cpl. Jonathan Snyder, 22, of Gettysburg, Pa. "But when you're here, you know it's worse every day."

Pfc. Kyle Maio, 19, of Bucks County, Pa., said he thought government officials were reticent to speak candidly because of the upcoming U.S. elections. "Stuff's going on here but they won't flat-out say it," he said. "They can't get into it."

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," said Lance Cpl. Devin Kelly, 20, of Fairbanks, Alaska.

Lance Cpl. Alexander Jones, 20, of Ball Ground, Ga., agreed: "We're basically proving out that the government is wrong," he said. "We're catching them in a lie."

But the Marines said their frustrations run deeper. Several said the Iraqi security forces who are supposed to ultimately replace them were nowhere near ready and may never be.

"They can't take care of themselves," said Lance Cpl. Matthew Combs, 19, of Cincinnati, who added that he didn't think the National Guardsmen "can do anything. They just do what we tell them to do."

But Perez said he came to think that war in Iraq was unrelated to his anger. "How do I put this?" he said. "First of all, this is a whole different thing. We're supposed to be looking for al Qaeda. They're the ones who are supposedly responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. This has no connection at all to Sept. 11 because this war started just by telling us about all the nuclear warheads over here."

Snyder, who was listening, added: "Pretty much I think they just diverted the war on terrorism. I agree with the Afghanistan war and all the Sept. 11 stuff, but it feels like they left the bigger war over there to come here. And now, while we're on the ground over here, it seems like we're not even close to catching frigging bin Laden."

Perez said he thought that in some ways he was still fighting terrorists "and I can see how they might attack the United States in the future. It's a link, but it's not really based in the same thing."

Traffic quickly began to pile up: cars packed with families, trucks loaded with animals and vegetables. The line of vehicles would have taken hours to search. An order was suddenly passed for the Marines to search all buses for insurgents or weapons.

"This is what we call a dog-and-pony show," said Kelly, the heavyset, sharp-tongued lance corporal from Fairbanks. He said the operation was essentially a performance for American reporters who were traveling with the Marines. "This is so you can write in your paper how great our response is," he said.

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

 

[Cloudy]

"We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

Ouch....

 

[robertsan21]

oh please..i am sure your backing that lame ass Kerry right?

 

[Incognito]

yea, he's lame, all right.

*cough*

anyway, John Kerry said the same thing last week about the iraqi war being a diversion and letting our sights off of bin laden, and Bush painted him as unpatriotic and disrespectful to the soldiers. would he say the same thing about these troops?

 

[bishoptl]

Wow...just wow.

The soldiers who are actually on the ground, doing the actual fighting and training of the supposed replacement forces, have had enough and are putting the lie to the Bush administration's claims. That "what are they going to do?" crack is the biggest smack in the grill I've seen from those in uniform.

So robertsan21, do YOU still support the troops? Even when the troops say this whole exercise in death and diversion has been a waste of time and lives? Hmmmm?

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

So harsh.

 

[demon]

How can you rely on our troops' feelings on the war? They're obviously going to have a biased view on it. The average citizen really doesn't know what's going on there. John "Lame Ass" Kerry needs to speak out against the war for his own political purposes. Bush is really the only one we can trust on this.

 

[Incognito]

god forbid one of these soldiers run for public office in 20-30 years; they might find themselves having to defend their words and actions because a chickenhawk didn't appreciate such dissent...

sounds familiar.

 

[sprsk]

How can you rely on our troops' feelings on the war? They're obviously going to have a biased view on it. The average citizen really doesn't know what's going on there. John "Lame Ass" Kerry needs to speak out against the war for his own political purposes. Bush is really the only one we can trust on this.

are you serious.

 

[Incognito]

How can you rely on our troops' feelings on the war? They're obviously going to have a biased view on it. The average citizen really doesn't know what's going on there. John "Lame Ass" Kerry needs to speak out against the war for his own political purposes. Bush is really the only one we can trust on this.

wha??

that's exactly why we should rely on their opinions -- they're ground zero. john kerry has been speaking out against the war, and getting pounded for it by the republicans.

as for trusting bush...

:lol

is that a joke post? was i baited?

 

[bishoptl]

You got baited GOOD. Nice one, demon.

I'm going to love watching the Bushies try and twist out of this one.

 

[sprsk]

youre on gaf candid camera!

 

[demon]

is that a joke post? was i baited?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

"If you know anyone in Iraq, don't even tell them we're having this debate. Cause i can tell you how that WON'T make them feel, and thats moralized..."

 

[StoOgE]

You know, stuff like this really makes me wonder if the neo-cons that forced this war down our throats have a conscience. Do they fully comprehend that innocent kids are being killed for their political views? Lying to the American people is one thing, every administration has done it.. but holy shit peoples lives are being radically changed forever because of these assholes. When I hear Bush or Cheney spout their shit about this war it makes me mad, when I hear this kind of stuff I become extremely sad.

 

[Zaptruder]

Someone will probably come and take me away for this comment...

but in some cases, assassination is a prudent course of action.

 

[Incognito]

Someone will probably come and take me away for this comment...

but in some cases, assassination is a prudent course of action.

dick cheney is worse than bush.

 

[Zaptruder]

dick cheney is worse than bush.

assassinations

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Someone will probably come and take me away for this comment...

but in some cases, assassination is a prudent course of action.

Aww man. If you EVER stop posting, we'll know why.

They'll get ya.

 

[xsarien]

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

Ouch...I mean...ouch.. Can't wait to see Ripclawe's spin, but seeing as how instapundit.com doesn't seem to have touched the issue yet, I may have to wait until tomorrow.

http://www.inflatablewhale.com/gallery/2000/sarcasm.gif

Ah, memories...

:: wipes away a tear ::

 

[Ripclawe]

Its soldiers complaining, this is supposed to be eye opening? There is frustration because they can't do what they are trained for which is to kill the enemy and have to deal with peacekeeping duties. Some of their complaints doesn't stand up to reality and others is just frustration.

"I feel we're going to be here for years and years and years," said Lance Cpl. Edward Elston, 22, of Hackettstown, N.J. "I don't think anything is going to get better; I think it's going to get a lot worse. It's going to be like a Palestinian-type deal. We're going to stop being a policing presence and then start being an occupying presence. . . . We're always going to be here. We're never going to leave."

1) There is a reason why bases are being built all over Iraq for a continued US presence in the middle East via Iraq, why we are building the largest US embassy in the world in Baghdad. This is not a secret, been known for a while.

If it was a "palestinian type deal" We would have plans for troops in Kurdish north and Shia South. Thats not going to happen, We don't have any plans to do security measures or any of things Israel had to do with gaza or west bank. So thats a false assumption on his part.

Several members of the platoon said they were struck by the difference between the way the war was being portrayed in the United States and the reality of their daily lives.

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like, 'Oh, it's getting better and better,' " said Lance Cpl. Jonathan Snyder, 22, of Gettysburg, Pa. "But when you're here, you know it's worse every day."

They must not have any internet connections considering the press is portraying exactly how he thinks it is. Its pretty sad I have to go to websites like Al Sabaah and the Institute for War and Peace Reporting (hardly a pro American site) to even get stories on the ground because the Western reporters do their job by staying in a hotel relying on local stringers. Occasionally the local stringers actually get stories like these across the AP wire
Allawi's guns-and-diplomacy bears fruit: With Sadr City deal in hand, is Fallujah next?

But the Marines said their frustrations run deeper. Several said the Iraqi security forces who are supposed to ultimately replace them were nowhere near ready and may never be.

"They can't take care of themselves," said Lance Cpl. Matthew Combs, 19, of Cincinnati, who added that he didn't think the National Guardsmen "can do anything. They just do what we tell them to do."

They said this nonsense about the Afghan forces and that was proven false, This is not going to be an overnight success, but considering the Sammarra operation which Iraqi forces backed by the Americans did a darn good job. But again, I do find fault if they have Marines doing the training, they are trained to be teachers.

Snyder, who was listening, added: "Pretty much I think they just diverted the war on terrorism. I agree with the Afghanistan war and all the Sept. 11 stuff, but it feels like they left the bigger war over there to come here. And now, while we're on the ground over here, it seems like we're not even close to catching frigging bin Laden."

Bullshit assumption easily disproven over the last 3 years,


http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030602/usnews/2terror.htm(June 2003)

On the run. Al Qaeda's wounds run deep. Over half of its key operational leaders are out of action, officials tell U.S. News. Its top leaders are increasingly isolated and on the run. Al Qaeda's Afghan sanctuary is largely gone. Its military commander is dead. Its chief of operations sits in prison, as do some 3,000 associates around the world. In the field, every attempt at communication now puts operatives at risk. The organization's once bountiful finances, meanwhile, have become precarious. One recent intercept revealed a terrorist pleading for $80, sources say.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0917/p06s01-woaf.html

US engages Africa in terror fight

The US is rolling out a nine-country, $125 million military training program.

Horn of Africa is also included as they kill and help beef up security in that region as well. But damn, if you hear a lot about things like these in the MSM at the same repetition and volume as you would complaints( some justified) but not trying to fight Al qaeda and finding bin laden.

As for Bin Laden, lets say he is the tribal lands of Pakistan, a realistic proposal on how to get to him without having the entire population of Pakistan in an uproar, OR the other theory, he is in Eastern Iran which is a major tribal/drug trafficking region where he is under protection from the Iranian republican army that only answers to the head of the Guardian Council. Anyone want to say how we get into that region?

So in short: He's wrong.

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

U.S. Disciplinary Barracks
Dishonorable discharge
reassigned duties like a desk job

"This is what we call a dog-and-pony show," said Kelly, the heavyset, sharp-tongued lance corporal from Fairbanks. He said the operation was essentially a performance for American reporters who were traveling with the Marines. "This is so you can write in your paper how great our response is," he said.

Dog and pony show is a staple of Army/press relations, of course you can find insurgents and weapons in vehicles but whatever.

Overall a bunch of frustrated Marines who are not doing what they want/trained to do speaking out. This is not strange or eye opening.

god forbid one of these soldiers run for public office in 20-30 years; they might find themselves having to defend their words and actions because a chickenhawk didn't appreciate such dissent...

sounds familiar.

There is nothing in this article that comes close to what John Kerry did to Vietnam vets and the subsequent years after that.

 

[explodet]

...because the Western reporters do their job by staying in a hotel relying on local stringers.

Dude, there's a pretty good reason why they're staying in hotels.

If trained soldiers are frustrated with being in a war zone, how do you thing untrained civilians feel?

 

[xsarien]

They must not have any internet connections considering the press is portraying exactly how he thinks it is. Its pretty sad I have to go to websites like Al Sabaah and the Institute for War and Peace Reporting (hardly a pro American site) to even get stories on the ground because the Western reporters do their job by staying in a hotel relying on local stringers. Occasionally the local stringers actually get stories like these across the AP wire
Allawi's guns-and-diplomacy bears fruit: With Sadr City deal in hand, is Fallujah next?

The reporters are hesitant to leave their hotels because it's apparently gotten too dangerous for even Geraldo to be out spilling troop locations to a live feed.

There is nothing in this article that comes close to what John Kerry did to Vietnam vets and the subsequent years after that.

Oh, yeah, Kerry - as the analogy goes - went to the slaughterhouse and came back a vegetarian. He didn't do jack to the troops in Vietnam. The rather subjective idea that he "lowered their morale," is nothing that can be proven with anything but anecdotal evidence; his "accusations" of war atrocities were him simply "relating what he had heard at an an event in Detroit a few weeks earlier sponsored by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and was not claiming to have witnessed those atrocities personally." (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=244.html) Note the .org.

And what you're losing sight of was that it was within his Constitutional right to say all of this. Lockstep should frighten and concern you more than people speaking out of turn.

To take a page from Martha Stewart: Dissent, it's a good thing.

 

[Jim Bowie]

YOU STOLE MY BIT! YOU STOLE MY BIT!

On topic, now:

My friend is in the ROTC. There's a guy in his ROTC group that's already been to Iraq, and has come back. They keep trying to make him do PT, but he keeps refusing. He said, "What are you going to do, send me back to Iraq?" I thought he was the only kid that used that...

 

[Makura]

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like, 'Oh, it's getting better and better,' "

What articles is this guy reading? The MSM is constantly saying how awful Iraq is.

We're supposed to be looking for al Qaeda.

And we are/already have.

but it feels like they left the bigger war over there to come here. And now, while we're on the ground over here, it seems like we're not even close to catching frigging bin Laden."

Myth. Flat out wrong.

Perez said he thought that in some ways he was still fighting terrorists "and I can see how they might attack the United States in the future. It's a link, but it's not really based in the same thing."

You're starting to get it - but not quite.

"This is what we call a dog-and-pony show," said Kelly, the heavyset, sharp-tongued lance corporal from Fairbanks. He said the operation was essentially a performance for American reporters who were traveling with the Marines. "This is so you can write in your paper how great our response is," he said.

Nevermind the fact that many displays of support and happiness form Iraqis have been and continue to be genuine.

Edit: Oops, I didn't see that Ripclawe had already pwned this.

 

[StoOgE]

Nevermind the fact that many displays of support and happiness form Iraqis have been and continue to be genuine.

He is talking about their searching buses. Im not sure what you are talking about here.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

If I were a republican, I wouldn't be worried about whether what the troops are saying is true or not - the fact that they are even feeling this way is worry enough.

 

[Makura]

Oops, I just read the last part there...

An order was suddenly passed for the Marines to search all buses for insurgents or weapons.

"This is what we call a dog-and-pony show,"

I call it doing you're job. Am I missing something here? Is there something amiss about "search[ing] all buses for insurgents"?

 

[Makura]

If I were a republican, I wouldn't be worried about whether what the troops are saying is true or not - the fact that they are even feeling this way is worry enough.

Frankly, it doesnt concern me one bit. Most of these opinions are fallacious and don;t account for all marines. It's anti-Bush cherry-picking at it's best. (or should I say worst?)

 

[Incognito]

Frankly, it doesnt concern me one bit. Most of these opinions are fallacious and don;t account for all marines. It's anti-Bush cherry-picking at it's best. (or should I say worst?)

are you for real?

are you wearing the rose colored glasses the kerry campaign has been handing out?

:lol

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

However you must admit that the statement below is probably true.

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," said Lance Cpl. Devin Kelly, 20, of Fairbanks, Alaska.

True or not, if there becomes a perception in the American public that the troops aren't happy in Iraq, it could spell trouble for the Bush administration.

 

[StoOgE]

I call it doing you're job. Am I missing something here? Is there something amiss about "search[ing] all buses for insurgents"?

The Dog and Pony show would mean that they DONT normally search those vehicles but simply let them go through. They put on a show in front of the media to show them their security measures.

 

[videogamer]

Frankly, it doesnt concern me one bit. Most of these opinions are fallacious and don;t account for all marines. It's anti-Bush cherry-picking at it's best. (or should I say worst?)

IIRC, the article follows just one platoon to see how they feel about the war. Even if these sentiments are confined to only this one group, it is nice to see how they feel about the war they are fighting.

I don't know of any polls that have surveyed the soldiers on their opinions on the war, so I don't quite understand how following this one group can be considered anti-Bush cherry picking.

 

[xsarien]

I call it doing you're job. Am I missing something here? Is there something amiss about "search[ing] all buses for insurgents"?

Please, tell me how you pick out an insurgent from a peaceful Iraqi.

 

[mashoutposse]

We really gotta get this guy out of office. The comments of these soldiers notwithstanding, if one steps back and evaluates the complete situation plainly and objectively, it is quite clear that the entire approach of the Bush administration towards Iraq was fatally flawed.

We went to war, and overall the result is that the ousted dictator turned out to be more trustworthy than our own leaders. Goodness gracious.

 

[Dan]

Eh, to play devil's advocate, if you had asked the American soldiers participating in the Battle of the Bulge during WWII, well, you'd hear a lot of the same sentiments about it being the worst place on Earth, how it was getting worse every day and questioning why they were there in the first place. And that's exactly what many of those in Bastogne and surrounding areas said. Those opinions don't really counter the fact that being there was important and worth something in the long haul.

I just don't think the soldiers' viewpoints are terribly important or relevant. You know, what war are soldiers going to enjoy and not be a little jaded about it?

That said, shit isn't looking up...

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Those opinions don't really counter the fact that being there was important and worth something in the long haul.

Something that can't really be said for Iraq. Why is it important that we are there? To protect the U.S. from their non-existent nuclear program, and the pretend WMDs? And what is Iraq worth in the long haul? To breed more anti-U.S. sentiment in the Middle East? And to build 14 military bases in Iraq to protect the oil? Sweet, precious oil.

 

[Dan]

Something that can't really be said for Iraq. Why is it important that we are there? To protect the U.S. from their non-existent nuclear program, and pretend WMDs? Or the oil? Sweet precious oil.

I know. I'm not anything to the contrary. I'm just saying that it's not the opinions and thoughts of the soldiers that should matter to anyone making the decisions and judging the war's importance and success. Their perspective on the war isn't going to be the most useful, accurate or farsighted.

I don't think we're there for oil though. I'm inclined to think Bush just wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein for any reason he could muster.

 

[Cloudy]

I just don't think the soldiers' viewpoints are terribly important or relevant.

Even though they're the ones dying out there? I see the point you're trying to make but you wouldn't hear comments like this in a war where the other country had actually attacked or threatened to attack first...

 

[xsarien]

I just don't think the soldiers' viewpoints are terribly important or relevant. You know, what war are soldiers going to enjoy and not be a little jaded about it?

This isn't "jaded," this is full tilt "We were lied to, and what the fuck are we doing here, anyway?"

Makura
Banned
(Today, 03:28 PM)

So much for getting my question answered.

 

[Dan]

This isn't "jaded," this is full tilt "We were lied to, and what the fuck are we doing here, anyway?"

Yeah, but since when did we need to hear that from soldiers? Their views are simply on one of the lowest rungs of the ladder in terms of relevance and importance. We don't need to hear the opinions of a handful of soldiers in order to know that. It isn't even necessarily representative of all the soldiers.

This is war. The big picture is what matters. These opinions only have worth politically as anecdotes, just like all the other anecdotes that politicians bring up. They're used to sway people emotionally but they don't necessarily have any worth in the big picture. This Iraq business though, we already know it's pretty fucked up. These big decisions need to be made intelligently, not with emotion. We don't need to know their feelings in order to judge this war or make decisions about it. Those feelings only get in the way of doing what's best and proper.

 

[Ripclawe]

Dude, there's a pretty good reason why they're staying in hotels.

If trained soldiers are frustrated with being in a war zone, how do you thing untrained civilians feel?

Their Job is to report, if they are hold up in a hotel, their reporting is useless.

The reporters are hesitant to leave their hotels because it's apparently gotten too dangerous for even Geraldo to be out spilling troop locations to a live feed.

This doesn't refute the fact they are not doing their jobs correctly. At this point everyone hates the journalists.

http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2004/DA_fall04/Iraq_Prothero_DA_fall04.html

 

[Keio]

Their Job is to report, if they are hold up in a hotel, their reporting is useless.

So you'd prefer more videos of people's heads getting cut off, because that probably would happen if the journos started walking around "investigating".

Add to that the fact that most Iraqis don't want to co-operate with Western journalists (http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=17816).

This collection of interviews is dramatic and interesting. It shoots down the idiotic Bush rhetoric about "how can troops follow a guy who says wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" etc. - and actually shows that troops don't want to "follow" a guy who instead of leading misleads them with lies about WMD and terrorist connections.

 

[Dan]

This collection of interviews is dramatic and interesting. It shoots down the idiotic Bush rhetoric about "how can troops follow a guy who says wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" etc. - and actually shows that troops don't want to "follow" a guy who instead of leading misleads them with lies about WMD and terrorist connections.

Yeah, but how many who believe that rhetoric are actually going to change their minds because a few soldiers say otherwise? I don't see this being of any real importance to the election. It'll be talked about a lot, but people have their minds made up, and anyone who could take Bush's rhetoric before is past the point of being too logical.

 

[Ripclawe]

The rather subjective idea that he "lowered their morale," is nothing that can be proven with anything but anecdotal evidence; his "accusations" of war atrocities were him simply "relating what he had heard at an an event in Detroit a few weeks earlier sponsored by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and was not claiming to have witnessed those atrocities personally." (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=244.html) Note the .org.

He knew they were lies and didn't care(still lying about it today), his subsequent work on stopping the Vietnam human rights bill and refusing to look into POWs pretty much sealed his reputation as a coward. You factcheck article even shows he was trying to backtrack on a lot of things that were seared into his memory.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cach...id/4772030+kerry+winter+soldier+russert&hl=en

MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, when you testified before the Senate, you talked about some of the hearings you had observed at the winter soldiers meeting and you said that people had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and on and on. A lot of those stories have been discredited, and in hindsight was your testimony...

SEN. KERRY: Actually, a lot of them have been documented.

MR. RUSSERT: So you stand by that?

SEN. KERRY: A lot of those stories have been documented. Have some been discredited? Sure, they have, Tim. The problem is that's not where the focus should have been.

 

[Drinky Crow]

For the record, I didn't ban Makura. The more GOP tools around to dangle their atrophied common sense and embarrass their political views the better, I say. Apparently, another mod disagreed.

EDIT: I promised Makura a week-long ban for his next logical fallacy, and another mod, wisely noting my selective memory, did the task for me. Therefore, I flip-flop: Makura's ban is 100% DRINKY CROW approved!

 

[xsarien]

You factcheck article even shows he was trying to backtrack on a lot of things that were seared into his memory.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cach...id/4772030+kerry+winter+soldier+russert&hl=en

Did we read the same article? I see no backtracking. I see clarification; I see a sobered politician reflecting on what was obviously an angry point in his youth, but backtracking? No. I'm sure you'll pick a few quotes out of context to show me, though.

 

[xsarien]

EDIT: I promised Makura a week-long ban for his next logical fallacy, and another mod, wisely noting my selective memory, did the task for me. Therefore, I flip-flop: Makura's ban is 100% DRINKY CROW approved!

For that week, I humbly suggest you switch his avatar to the DNC logo.

 

[Ripclawe]

Even though they're the ones dying out there? I see the point you're trying to make but you wouldn't hear comments like this in a war where the other country had actually attacked or threatened to attack first...

112 Gripes about the French
Published in Paris in 1945 by the 'Information & Education Division' of the US Occupation Forces.(world war II)

I don't believe morale was always high during events like Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge.

 

[doncale]

it DOESNT MATTER who is 'elected' president. Bush or Kerry. the problems in Iraq for
U.S. forces on the ground will get worse and worse and WORSE. we're going to be there for a decade if not decades, even if we don't invade one more country, and in all likelihood we will in the next 2-4 years.

 

[kitchenmotors]

I can't even begin to imagine what a soldier might be thinking over there. The fact that your life is on the line for nothing but a big lie and a way to capitalize on oil would tear me apart, especially the emotional aspect of watching the Iraqi people suffer.

And in reality, the Iraqis who are fighting us are fighting an invader. I don't care if we're the US, we invaded that country under false pretenses. I would fight to the death if I had to, I would expect anyone to.

I saw the feature on Iraq and the prisons on the Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD. I think that hit me emotionally more than the entire movie. These people didn't want war, and despite Saddam's track record, he kept that country under control. It's a time bomb right now, and the people in that country will continue to fight to take it back.

There are two sides to this war, and the Bush Administration refuses to ever see anything past what is best for them and the Saudis.