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[glaurung]

The further USA distances itself from their best buddy Israel, the better.

Some POTUS should have stopped supplying infinite arms to the Israelis and then turning a blind eye to the slaughter a long time ago.

I would give Obama a standing ovation if he is the one who manages that.

...

I also know that the Israel lobbyists would see Obama's brains splattered on the White House lawn rather than have that happen.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Would you mind elaborating? Not disagreeing, but you would seem to know something about this topic, so I would like to hear what you mean.

A moderation isn't very likely, at least in the short term.

The israeli public is probably more accepting of the Settlement and distrusting of the PA now then they were 10 years ago. I haven't followed this election so this is based of stuff from 6ish months ago.

And the Israeli right is often secular. Parties like Jewish Home and Lukid have a lot of support from Russian immigrants and not the ultra orthodox and religious parties.

Oh; sorry then. I was under the impression that the Likud was extremely right-wing and that it was largely elected by fear-mongering rhetoric that the Israeli population at large is now starting to dismiss.

Likud is right wing and has positioned itself as a national security party but there are also other reasons like economics (Likud is like the republican party of Israel) and cultural things.

And I'm not aware of any major changing of attitudes among the populous. The peace camp has all but evaporated in Israel since the withdrawl from gaza which has in the opinion of many 'affirmed' their believe land for peace isn't a workable stratagy

 

[Dreams-Visions]

There's no such thing as "a price" if the relationship is simultaneously defined as "unshakable".

 

[Frog-fu]

What could this price realistically entail?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

There's no such thing as "a price" if the relationship is simultaneously defined as "unshakable".

Yes there is unless you view everything through a zero sum lens

What could this price realistically entail?

less lobbying allies. Less pressure on the EU when they discuss sanctions, more strings attached to weapons and trade, more hiccups in their re-authorization, more support for Abbas, rhetorical support for two state publicly more often

There's a lot of things. anything will wait till the results of the elections in march though

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

What could this price realistically entail?

Realistically? Speeding up the peace process with Iran. Not leveling any more sanctions. The United States government is eager to put this decades-long middle eastern adventure to rest now that we have more pressing concerns, and re-opening an embassy in Iran would be the final victory.

 

[Kinyou]

What could this price realistically entail?

That birthday card Bibi used to get? Scratched!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yes there is unless you view everything through a zero sum lens

Name something that would objectively qualify as "a price" that wouldn't be followed with headlines talking about the foundations being shaken.

I'll wait.

 

[Stereogatari]

I don't understand why people call him Bibi.

 

[Toxi]

Israel is an instrument of American foreign policy. It has served its purpose, and now America is letting it go; this is pretty consistent with basically every country the United States has ever "allied" with, and I think the reason Bibi's so salty is because he's starting to realize just how little power he really has. We're not going to attack Iran or even levy more sanctions against them, and there's nothing he can do about it; despite the tough talk he gives at home for domestic consumption, Israel does not have the capacity to unilaterally attack Iran without US support. Fortunately, once he's out of office, a more secular government will likely take over, and Israel can actually start crafting a more realistic foreign policy.

The United States has allied with Israel for decades and continues to support them extensively. I'm not sure why you think not attacking Iran means we're letting them go.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I don't understand why people call him Bibi.

You try typing out "Benjamin Netanyahu" over and over again; you'll see why. As for were the nickname came from, I don't know.

The United States has allied with Israel for decades and continues to support them extensively. I'm not sure why you think not attacking Iran means we're letting them go.

I think that because it is what the initial plan was for the projected conflict between Iran and our interests; Bibi is practically foaming at the mouth for a first strike. That's why we supported him. But things have changed; Iran elected a more moderate leader, and seem willing to actually negotiate. Normally I'd be concerned that Iran is simply lying, but the fact that even the Mossad agrees with the Obama administration that more sanctions are unnecessary (in opposition to the opinions of Netanyahu!) is very telling. When your main government intelligence agency is disagreeing with your leaders, that's generally not a good sign.

 

[Toxi]

Realistically? Speeding up the peace process with Iran. Not leveling any more sanctions. The United States government is eager to put this decades-long middle eastern adventure to rest now that we have more pressing concerns, and re-opening an embassy in Iran would be the final victory.

I very much doubt we'll be speeding up the peace process with Iran, and this has little to do with our relationship with Israel. There's a massive divide between the US and Iran and many people here would not be pleased.

We do not always act rationally as a country. I've talked with people who are convinced that bombing Gaza into rubble was necessary for American security and Iran is a nuclear holocaust waiting to happen.

 

[Yamauchi]

I used to blame Israel for most of America's foreign policy mistakes. Now after seeing the US backing the Banderist scum in Kiev, I'm convinced America just doesn't have a clue what it is doing.

 

[nib95]

The more distance in the relationship the US has with Israel, the better.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I don't understand why people call him Bibi.

The name is used in Israel, its his nickname from childhood.

A good nickname is hard to find. Most politicos would sell their grandmother for a winning tag like "Bibi." Netanyahu didn't even have to pay a public relations pro to think it up. According to Netanyahu family lore, it stems from childhood confusion with another older Benjamin who was the big BB while the future prime minister was the little Bibi.

Its either used to signal a kind of familiarity with Israeli politics or for not wanting to spell his name (my reason)

Abbas is also called Abu Mazin more than abbas there.

Its the same think with Dick Nixon, LBJ, and FDR

I don't understand why people call him Bibi.

Name something that would objectively qualify as "a price" that wouldn't be followed with headlines talking about the foundations being shaken.

I'll wait.

I posted it above. And I don't think headlines have any bearing on the actual foundations of the relationship

 

[gutter_trash]

How about we stop giving them a penny of our hard earned money?

this!

 

[Justin Bailey]

Good. The only country we can truly be bros with is Britain.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I very much doubt we'll be speeding up the peace process with Iran, and this has little to do with our relationship with Israel. There's a massive divide between the US and Iran and many people here would not be pleased.

Since when has American foreign policy ever been dictated with what Americans want? The Federal government of the United States has a more international agenda.

We do not always act rationally as a country. I've talked with people who are convinced that bombing Gaza into rubble was necessary for American security and Iran is a nuclear holocaust waiting to happen.

Yeah. Most Americans don't actually know anything about international politics. Fortunately, we are a Republic, not a democracy, so the people who are actually in charge can make more informed decisions, barring the occasional senile chickenhawk neocon that just hasn't yet had the decency to retire or die.

I used to blame Israel for most of America's foreign policy mistakes. Now after seeing the US backing the Banderist scum in Kiev, I'm convinced America just doesn't have a clue what it is doing.

What it's doing is containment. Power projection. Politics. Now, this systematic neglect of the homefront, as it were, is causing sever problems; our infrastructure is rotting away, our schools are failing despite massive spending, income inequality is increasing to dangerous levels. But until a significant number of Americans actually start to complain about this, domestic policies will continue to sit on the back burner.

 

[RustyNails]

Lol, do they really call him Chickenshit in diplomatic quarters?

This is a good reaction though. I love it.

 

[Drencrom]

How about we stop giving them a penny of our hard earned money?

Still completely flabbergasted that's actually a thing.

How much American tax dollars are going to Israel and when did Israel lobbyists pull this scam?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Its a trope on the left. Which has no actual support besides a few anecdotes.



Not its not.

Many of the more devout evangelicals hold anti-semetic/anti-israel views. Ron Paul being a big example.

There is also this article which talks about the internal divide in the evangelical movement which has moved away from Israel
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppin...t-seeks-split-from-pro-israel-line#.amlddaogB

Its much more a kind of 'cultural' anti-arab sentiment that drives those to support israel rather than any religious motivation.

You'reh wrong

Aipac is tiny compared to Christians United For Israel.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Lol, do they really call him Chickenshit in diplomatic quarters?

This is a good reaction though. I love it.

I bet hood Obama came out.

"That mothafucka is goin where? When? The FUCK?? Yo fuck him. Get their ambassador on the fuckin phone!"

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Still completely flabbergasted that's actually a thing.
How much American tax dollars are going to Israel and when did Israel lobbyists pull this scam?

It's not so much Israeli lobbyists as it is enterprising congressmen who realized that they can increase funding to Israeli to increase the value of their stocks in military contractors and to increase the amount of money they get from Israeli lobbyists. It's basically a way for congressmen to steal tax money from the government; they just use Israel as the mechanism for transfer. Most of the bills that AIPAC lobbies for would probably be passed anyway.

I bet hood Obama came out.

"That mothafucka is goin where? When? The FUCK?? Yo fuck him. Get their ambassador on the fuckin phone!"

Obama spent a lot of his childhood in Indonesia and his adolescence in Hawaii; I don't think there is a "hood Obama". I'm not even entirely sure what you mean by that term.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I bet hood Obama came out.

"That mothafucka is goin where? When? The FUCK?? Yo fuck him. Get their ambassador on the fuckin phone!"

... what?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Good. The only country we can truly be bros with is Britain.

[Canada] Okay.... we'll be on our way

 

[GaimeGuy]

[Canada] Okay.... we'll be on our way

You're our brothers, not bros.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Please Obama, PLEASE.

PLEASE LET THERE ACTUALLY BE A PRICE.

 

[Drencrom]

It's not so much Israeli lobbyists as it is enterprising congressmen who realized that they can increase funding to Israeli to increase the value of their stocks in military contractors and to increase the amount of money they get from Israeli lobbyists. It's basically a way for congressmen to steal tax money from the government; they just use Israel as the mechanism for transfer. Most of the bills that AIPAC lobbies for would probably be passed anyway.

So it's even worse than I thought...

How the fuck can congressmen abuse taxpayers like this? Why isn't it illegal for people in congress to invest in things they can profit off? No wonder America is basically an Oligarchy when shit like this goes.

 

[Frog-fu]

less lobbying allies. Less pressure on the EU when they discuss sanctions, more strings attached to weapons and trade, more hiccups in their re-authorization, more support for Abbas, rhetorical support for two state publicly more often

There's a lot of things. anything will wait till the results of the elections in march though

Realistically? Speeding up the peace process with Iran. Not leveling any more sanctions. The United States government is eager to put this decades-long middle eastern adventure to rest now that we have more pressing concerns, and re-opening an embassy in Iran would be the final victory.

Some of that sounds like good stuff the US should've already been doing though. For example, why wouldn't Israel want the Middle East to be more peaceful?

That birthday card Bibi used to get? Scratched!

lol

 

[Toxi]

Since when has American foreign policy ever been dictated with what Americans want? The Federal government of the United States has a more international agenda.

Yeah. Most Americans don't actually know anything about international politics. Fortunately, we are a Republic, not a democracy, so the people who are actually in charge can make more informed decisions, barring the occasional senile neocon that just hasn't yet had the decency to retire or die.

Vietnam?

I don't think the United States acts according to realism theory. Most Americans don't know much about international politics, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the headlines they see in the news. Since our politicians are elected, this means they have a reason to make sure they don't do something to alienate voters.

 

[Justin Bailey]

[Canada] Okay.... we'll be on our way

Ah shit. Sorry forgot about you guys.

JUST KIDDING. We love you too.

 

[Kinyou]

I bet hood Obama came out.

"That mothafucka is goin where? When? The FUCK?? Yo fuck him. Get their ambassador on the fuckin phone!"

Well, probably just his translator.

 

[curlyfriski]

We've been through this before. Israel does something to piss off the administration, there are rumblings about how angry the US is, and nothing fundamentally changes.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

We've been through this before. Israel does something to piss off the administration, there are rumblings about how angry the US is, and nothing fundamentally changes.

And Hill dawg will reset everything in a few years. Is this playing well in Israel?

 

[gutter_trash]

Please Obama, PLEASE.

PLEASE LET THERE ACTUALLY BE A PRICE.

Hillary loves Israel, expect her to embrace them with open arms when she wins

 

[Maledict]

The USA / Israel relationship is just utterly bizarre. I honestly think that had an opposition party pulled a stunt like this with another country in the UK, they would have suffered greatly at the polls for it - there are some things you just do not do, regardless of which party is running the country.

But between the rabid hatred of Obama on the right and the truly strange relationship between the USA and Israel, normal rules and behaviours don't seem to exist.

 

[ElFly]

If hillary loves israel, maybe it is to her benefit that obama snubs it

 

[akira28]

Obama should make a surprise appearance in Israel, while Benji is out campaigning.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

So it's even worse than I thought...

How the fuck can congressmen abuse taxpayers like this? Why isn't it illegal for people in congress to invest in things they can profit off? No wonder America is basically an Oligarchy when shit like this goes.

It wasn't illegal until the passage of the STOCK Act, which was enacted on April 4th, 2012 to great public support; this law made it illegal to for congressmen to trade on insider information that they learned from their government positions. However, it was basically ruined later on with a provision that disallowed most government officials from filing trading information online, apparently so criminals could not use the financial data for questionable activities. No, really. Thus, there is no longer any way to check if Congressmen are actually breaking the law or not, and they obviously aren't going to prosecute themselves.

However, most Americans are unaware of this change, as it was quickly and unanimous voted through both the House and Senate on April 15th, 2013, the day of the Boston Marathon Bombings, so there wasn't any news coverage.

Vietnam?

I don't think the United States acts according to realism theory. Most Americans don't know much about international politics, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the headlines they see in the news. Since our politicians are elected, this means they have a reason to make sure they don't do something to alienate voters.

Vietnam? Support for that war was fostered through somewhat underhanded tactics such as severely playing up the Gulf of Tonkin incident; modern Americans however are so apathetic that the US government no longer needs to make excuses.

 

[inm8num2]

"That's it, Bibi. You're getting $3 billion instead of $3.1 billion in aid this year!"

 

[mercenar1e]

Lol, do they really call him Chickenshit in diplomatic quarters?

This is a good reaction though. I love it.

the chickenshit name came up after the several failed attempts of bibi to get the US to strike Iran.. it fits him well lol

 

[Mimosa97]

A moderation isn't very likely, at least in the short term.

The israeli public is probably more accepting of the Settlement and distrusting of the PA now then they were 10 years ago. I haven't followed this election so this is based of stuff from 6ish months ago.

And the Israeli right is often secular. Parties like Jewish Home and Lukid have a lot of support from Russian immigrants and not the ultra orthodox and religious parties.



Likud is right wing and has positioned itself as a national security party but there are also other reasons like economics (Likud is like the republican party of Israel) and cultural things.

And I'm not aware of any major changing of attitudes among the populous. The peace camp has all but evaporated in Israel since the withdrawl from gaza which has in the opinion of many 'affirmed' their believe land for peace isn't a workable stratagy

Are you really saying the Likud is a secular party ? Are you joking ?

All i need to know about the Likud is that there are guys like Moshe Feiglin in this party. And if you've ever read one statement of the lunatic, you'd know what kind of party the likud is. I know there are people from every background in the likud, religious, non-religious etc... It's a big melting-pot. But to say that the likud is a secular party is 100% false.

The thing is, you also say that the likud is a right-wing party when in fact if you look at it from a European viewpoint you'd know that the likud is more like a far-right party. I mean just look at the shit right-wing israeli politicians say ...

People in Israel are more and more radicalized (same maybe could be said about palestinians ...). A large majority of israelis hate Obama and this administration. The US supports every horrible action taken by the israli governement and all they get in return is hate.

 

[Elfforkusu]

If the GOP successfully (accidentally) weakens our ties with Israel, that'll be the most successful achievement of the party in...

uh, two decades?

 

[curlyfriski]

Are you really saying the Likud is a secular party ? Are you joking ?

All i need to know about the Likud is that there are guys like Moshe Feiglin in this party. And if you've ever read one statement of the lunatic, you'd know what kind of party the likud is. I know there are people from every background in the likud, religious, non-religious etc... It's a big melting-pot. But to say that the likud is a secular party is 100% false.

The thing is, you also say that the likud is a right-wing party when in fact if you look at it from a European viewpoint you'd know that the likud is more like a far-right party. I mean just look at the shit right-wing israeli politicians say ...

People in Israel are more and more radicalized (same maybe could be said about palestinians ...). A large majority of israelis hate Obama and this administration. The US supports every horrible action taken by the israli governement and all they get in return is hate.

Feiglin is dangerous, but he's also against religious parties. I don't think his existence makes Likud non-secular.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

WH:
"He spat in our face publicly and that’s no way to behave. Netanyahu ought to remember that President Obama has a year and a half left to his presidency, and that there will be a price.”
oooooohhhhh. a year and a haaaaaaaaaaalf.

Obama sending in James Taylor next?
Weak
ass
bike helmet-wearing
President.

 

[Dai101]

"That's it, Bibi. You're getting $3 billion instead of $3.1 billion in aid this year!"

Also no more ❤ in your "i"'s either!

 

[kess]

Netanyahu has upped the ante by accepting the invitation and he is setting people up for disappointment if he delivers a standard campaign speech. And how will it play if he delivers a polemic against the sitting US president? He has already burned one bridge.

 

[Mimosa97]

Feiglin is dangerous, but he's also against religious parties. I don't think his existence makes Likud non-secular.

The day when one of my longtime friends who moved to Israel at age 15 told me he was a big Feiglin supporter ...

Then i googled the guy and started reading his statements during protective edge ... I almost threw up.

 

[Dai101]

Then i googled the guy and started reading his statements during protective edge ... I almost threw up.

For those who want to know what this.......... person thinks:

About Arabs:

Arabs are “a gang of bandits that never produced anything and never wanted to produce anything – a gang of bandits that for over one thousand years (since Islam was born) has lived on robbery and terror. . . . Since their establishment, the Arab states have produced nothing but poverty, suffering, wars – and fantastic wealth for their leaders.

We all know that most of the fires in Israel are caused by arson. Arson perpetrated by Arabs. Not by nut-jobs, not by criminals. Arson motivated by nationalism. Arson by Arab citizens of Israel. ... Wherever the Arab goes, he brings the desert with him. ... There is not and there never will be democracy in the Arab states - and their economies will never flourish. Israel produces more than all its neighbors combined. That is not because we are extremely industrious. It is because true economic vitality cannot exist in a culture of robbery. ... Arab culture is anti-productive. It has no good and bad, only strong and weak.

How about gay people?

""Throughout history," Feiglin explained, "from Rome to Europe in our day, the approval and spread of homosexuality presaged the decline of nations and cultures. If one reads the Torah portion 'Noah' – this comes as no surprise. . . .The organizers of a pride parade do not wish to gain rights. They strive to force homosexuality as a culture upon the public sphere. . . . A minority has no right to take over public assets. Let the marchers kindly go back to their individual closets. And let them do it without whining, because no one interferes with their affairs in there. Let them give up their attempts at takeovers, and leave the public sphere to normal people. . . .Feiglin added in an additional post: "I have no problem with homosexuals, most of whom are, most likely, good and talented people and no one wants to interfere in their private lives. I have a problem with homosexuality as a culture. This culture subverts the status of the family. And without the family there is no nation, and without a nation there is no civilization."

How about women?

“'Tel Aviv has become a city that has erased masculinity and where being a man is considered a sickness' and added that feminism has destroyed family values, something essential to Judaism. . . . Pressed further, he stated that 'the man is the family while the woman is the home [literally "house"]' and that in our current culture we are forgetting 'what it means to be a man.' ”

When the Jerusalem city government voted to permit sex-segregated public buses, Feiglin supported the action: "I see discrimination against women as despicable. But it is unreasonable to force an ultra-Orthodox bus company to institute mixed seating on its buses against the wishes of its customers."Feiglin also opposes the Israeli army's decision to allow women into combat units.

"Instead of saying that we no longer need families, our lexicon now includes single parent families or same gender marriage. These newly introduced concepts are not contrived for the good of those parents raising their children without the support of a spouse (who should be benefiting from aid when needed). Instead, they revise the way we think of the traditional family -- compromising its preeminence and relegating it to "just another option" status."

How about christians (and probably any other religion)?

"Jews like it when goyim finally smile at them, but sometimes a smile is more dangerous than a scowl, and this is one of those occasions,"

The Christian conquest is much more dangerous than the Muslim conquest because it is not direct. It is not violent. Embracing and supportive, it connects with Israel against the Muslim enemy. It supports a Jewish Land of Israel in its entirety - even speaking up for the sanctity of the connection between the Nation of Israel, the Land of Israel and the Torah of Israel. It just forgets to specify which Nation of Israel and which Torah. The Christians are careful to hide their true intentions. They will not usually display the crucifix and will not mention the name of their deity in conversation with Jews. They simply "love" us - "no strings attached." But their goal is clear: to immigrate to Israel by the millions, to become citizens, and to convert us all, God forbid.

What a loving and caring human being.

 

[BajiBoxer]

What?

I don't recall a prophesy interpretation of it being literally destroyed, but I have heard versions of it being conquered before being freed or reborn after the Apocalypse.
The one I heard most around here, and learned in church, is that Israel will be saved from direct attack by God in some miracle, but then ally or get conquered by the antichrist. Some Jews will convert and be "saved" with most going to hell. The big trigger prophesies for this are supposed to be the return to Israel of the Jews (basically returning it to being a Jewish state) which was fullfiled with the creation of modern Israel following WW2, then followed by a 7 year period of false peace. The "Left Behind" book series version basically.

The part of all this that American evangelicals focus on so much these days is that period of peace. Many believe that the antichrist is the one who will ultimately broker a peace deal between Israel and its enemies leading to him becoming ruler. It's one reason many religious conservatives in the U.S. are so strongly against any kind of peace deal. While they view it as inevitable, they also view such support as direct support of Lucifer.