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Using emulators to fix older, broken games

Emulation is the ONLY way to play a lot of these older games. I'll happily emulate something like Splinter Cell rather than play the PC port. Too bad there's still a ways to go for Xbox emulation until it's in a really good place.
 

Wolzard

Member
Recently I've been emulating a lot of older, broken games I've been wanting to replay, because I don't want to deal with their broke ass on the actual platforms they can be played on. Couple recent examples:

1. Saints Row 2 on Xenia. Best way to play. PC port is garbo nor does it have the DLC, while the PS360 versions have fps and crashing problems. Xenia fixes all that, supports the DLC, and there's a 60 fps patch.

2. Deadly Premonition. Same story as SR2, except RPCS3 is the best way to play, constant 4k60 and no crashing.

I feel like I'm playing these games for the first time again, now that I don't have to deal with some pretty major issues anymore. Has anyone else resorted to playing older broken games via an emulator to brute force through issues, and if so, which ones have you played?

Have you tried the Saints Rows 2 mods? There was a huge community effort to fix this game.



Metal Gear Solid Playstation - Total poster child for this.

PC Port is old & certain effects caused it to run like trash.

PS1 version on Duckstation blows everything else out of the water.



This game was patched by GOG and then re-released in the Master Collection.
 

nkarafo

Member
Outrun 2006 is also better via emulation.

The PC version is fine and there is even a fan made mod that makes some improvements. But it's still missing the bloom effects, which i think add a lot to this particular game's visuals.

You can emulate the arcade version via Teknoparrot or the PS3 one using RPCS3, which is a more complete version. The XBOX 360 version has issues in xenia.

Edit: PS3 version only has the SP content.
 
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Have you tried the Saints Rows 2 mods? There was a huge community effort to fix this game.
Yeah I followed the community efforts to fix the PC port for years. The IdolNinja saga is depressing as hell.

His mod, GotR, plus the recent Juiced mod, work pretty well, but it still crashes frequently. Plus the DLC is only available on consoles. ☹️

Durante's Deadly Premonition mod was the same. It improved the game greatly on PC, but it still crashed frequently.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Loading times are great!
Can you try, if possible, to look inside houses and see how long it takes to load the room and then when you stop looking how long it takes to load the town back please? On PS3 HW it took like 3-4x longer than on XSX in BC mode :/.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
You can emulate the arcade version via Teknoparrot or the PS3 one using RPCS3, which is a more complete version. The XBOX 360 version has issues in xenia.
Teknoparrot compatibility is a bit of a mess though - non NVidia GPUs are all but unsupported, and even on NVidia it's yanky as hell. But I agree it looks nicer (and PC version has frame-pacing issues that require extra workarounds).
PS3 version I haven't tried - but isn't that missing like at least half the content?

Dead Space Extraction. You can play the Wii version in Dolphin use a mouse and keyboard, which makes it a much smoother and modern-feeling experience.
Extraction had a PS3/Move port that was basically perfect (And no - I'll never agree that plays better with a mouse over a physical pointer). Granted that version might still benefit from emulation - but it had 4xMSAA and HD resolution with perfect framerate, so it's pretty good on native hw.

Anyway my addition is XCom 1/2. PS1 versions are way more stable than PC was, fix the bugged AI, run 32bit (so actually look a bit nicer), and emulated you get reduced loading times(PS1 native was - a bit slow there) and none of the slowdown (PC version is framelocked so if you run it faster it becomes impossible to control). Also the controller support fixes a lot of the yank of early 90ies mouse controls that were really - not good at all in XCom, and above all - makes them playable portable.
I replayed both games on PSP and that's still the best way I remember experiencing both games, by a long stretch.
 
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intbal

Gold Member
I hope this post is an acceptable addition to this thread, even though it's sorta not really what OP had in mind. But it is technically emulation when considering the 360 games.

A lot of my backlog is from Xbox 360 and Xbox One. Some of them I just haven't gotten around to, but others are games that I've started and just found to be too tedious to stick with.
The Quick Resume feature of Xbox Series has helped me dive back into that list and finish those games since I can literally just click and start playing in a few seconds from the exact point I stopped before annoyance-quitting. It might take three weeks to finish an eight hour game, but it's much less of a hassle now since I know that there's no wait times. Any time I feel up to it, I can spend a couple of minutes trying to plow through some frustrating section that I got stuck on previously.
For that reason, I'm saying that the XSX/XSS emulator is a good example of fixing (improving the experience of) "broken" games.
 

Aesius

Member
I'm a huge fan of emulation + mods and ROM hacks to improve older games.

Currently playing through Gran Turismo 4 with the Spec II mod, high-res textures, and high-res UI/fonts mod. It plays perfectly at 3440x1440 and looks spectacular.

Fast forward, rewind, and save state functions also have allowed me to play through NES games I never beat as a kid and never would have beaten as an adult. Sure, I didn't "beat" them in the traditional sense but I got to experience the entirety of them in a more manageable state. Those functions are also great for grinding in old RPGs that have zero respect for your time.
 

nkarafo

Member
Teknoparrot compatibility is a bit of a mess though - non NVidia GPUs are all but unsupported, and even on NVidia it's yanky as hell. But I agree it looks nicer (and PC version has frame-pacing issues that require extra workarounds).
PS3 version I haven't tried - but isn't that missing like at least half the content?
Teknoparrot runs it perfectly on Nvidia (tested it myself) but yeah, not sure about other GPUs.

Also, you are right, PS3 version has only the SP content.
 
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I'm not a fan of emulation either, so I'm with the guy that everyone hates, but...

Metal Slug 2. The game had massive slowdown on original hardware, which made parts of it borderline unplayable (sub-10 fps, tons of dropped inputs). Emulation lets you speed up the processor and fix that. That's cool.

widescreen support, better textures, higher resolution, qol controls, almost everything running at locked 60fps...what does OG hardware offer so much that it's better than emulation?
 
Two games that get much improved are Need For Speed 3 and 4 from PS1 (the PC versions don't play the same).

On Duckstation they can run at 60fps with a simple PS1 cpu overclock, plus 16x10 aspect ratio, perspective correction, 8K, all that.

A similar thing can be done with the PS2 version of Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 (different and better game from the PC version): patch for 60fps, true widescreen (HUDs correctly positioned), 8K, 16x AF.


All these games are limited to 30 fps on original hardware.

PS1 versions of NFS 3 and 4 look infinitely worse. These games were made for PC first, and their native PC version runs and looks way better than emulated PS1 titles.
 

kiphalfton

Member
Has Silent Hill collection on either Xbox 360 or PS3, can't remember. In any case does emulators fix it?

I ask as just beat SH2, and guessing SH3 is never going to get a remake. So figure may as well play it now.
 
Can you try, if possible, to look inside houses and see how long it takes to load the room and then when you stop looking how long it takes to load the town back please? On PS3 HW it took like 3-4x longer than on XSX in BC mode :/.
Went inside and then left the hotel. Loading times both ways were quick.

Tested going inside a store and leaving as well, good there too.
 
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Jinzo Prime

Member
True! I'm excited for Majora's Mask decomp. I love the original, but 20 fps on the N64 is rough.
It's already out, for windows and now linux:


And there's also the recomp for windows and linux:

 
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Rudius

Member
PS1 versions of NFS 3 and 4 look infinitely worse. These games were made for PC first, and their native PC version runs and looks way better than emulated PS1 titles.
Looks better? Yes. Run better? Don't know about that, 60fps on the emulator feels great to me. But most important: the PS1 versions have different handling and I prefer those.

The bold part is false. They were made by different developers at the same time: EA Canada for PS1 and EA Seattle for PC. Both were released on PS1 some months before PC.
 
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Rudius

Member
Yup but I'd argue they're all better than the console versions minus Hot Pursuit 2 which is infinitely worse
Most people have that option based on looks alone, plus the extra content. But I value gameplay. Try the PS1 versions at 60fps on the emulator and see for yourself. It's even possible to map analog acceleration and brakes to the triggers (mapping them first to the right analog stick).
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Went inside and then left the hotel. Loading times both ways were quick.

Tested going inside a store and leaving as well, good there too.
Apologies, I did not mean entering and exiting the building. You know how you can peek through people’s windows and see what they do and then “exit” as in kind of resuming wandering the open world?
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Most people have that option based on looks alone, plus the extra content. But I value gameplay. Try the PS1 versions at 60fps on the emulator and see for yourself. It's even possible to map analog acceleration and brakes to the triggers (mapping them first to the right analog stick).
And is it not possible go above 60 fps and also do that with controllers plus wheels on PC versions?
 

Killer8

Member
Don't bother with any version of Deadly Premonition that isn't the Xbox version. Every port from that is badly compromised in numerous ways that emulation will not fix.

 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
widescreen support, better textures, higher resolution, qol controls, almost everything running at locked 60fps...what does OG hardware offer so much that it's better than emulation?
Again, I really couldn't give a shit less. I want the original game, not some embellishment of it. Same reason I roll my eyes at people who insist that mods make PC games better by default.
 

nkarafo

Member
Has Silent Hill collection on either Xbox 360 or PS3, can't remember. In any case does emulators fix it?
Nothing can fix these monstrosities.

Best version of the original Silent Hill 2 is the PC port using the Enhanced Edition mod.

Best version of the original Silent Hill 3 is the PC port, also modded (more info at PCWiki).

Emulating the PS2 versions is your second best choice.
 

nkarafo

Member
Again, I really couldn't give a shit less. I want the original game, not some embellishment of it. Same reason I roll my eyes at people who insist that mods make PC games better by default.
But you just said it's cool how you can play Metal Slug 2 without slowdowns. The original game has slow downs.

And either way, emulators don't necessarily force you to use any improvements. You can use them to play the games accurately like the original systems would (depending on the quality of the emulator, for anything up to 5th gen there are plenty of accurate emulators for the job).
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Emulation is the ONLY way to play a lot of these older games. I'll happily emulate something like Splinter Cell rather than play the PC port. Too bad there's still a ways to go for Xbox emulation until it's in a really good place.

That doesn't even make sense. You'd rather emulate the Xbox version of Splinter Cell than play the PC version, but Xbox emulation is bad?

The emulation crowd might be the only group less sensible than the PCMR types.
 

nkarafo

Member
Emulation is the ONLY way to play a lot of these older games. I'll happily emulate something like Splinter Cell rather than play the PC port. Too bad there's still a ways to go for Xbox emulation until it's in a really good place.
I don't remember the Splinter Cell PC ports being bad, then again i might remember it wrong.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
But you just said it's cool how you can play Metal Slug 2 without slowdowns. The original game has slow downs.

And either way, emulators don't necessarily force you to use any improvements. You can use them to play the games accurately like the original systems would (depending on the quality of the emulator, for anything up to 5th gen there are plenty of accurate emulators for the job).

I'm talking about a rare edge case, he's talking about a general principle. I'm well aware that emulators don't force you to use improvements. I still don't like them. And I used to be one of those dummies that swore by using emulators with a SuperEagle filter.
 
Apologies, I did not mean entering and exiting the building. You know how you can peek through people’s windows and see what they do and then “exit” as in kind of resuming wandering the open world?
Oh mb yeah, I peeked inside one of the windows for the hotel, and the loading times were good both ways as well for that.
 
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Again, I really couldn't give a shit less. I want the original game, not some embellishment of it. Same reason I roll my eyes at people who insist that mods make PC games better by default.

Again you are mixing modding which can completely change the look and vibe of a game versus emulating which pretty much makes the game playable as a better version. Just the fact that you can have true aspect ratio widescreen on modern displays without stretching the original image, modern controller inputs, and higher resolution, can even disable the wobbly ps1 polygons....but you aint replacing textures or skyboxes. Most importantly, you are getting not 30 but 60fps or higher. A lot of these original games couldnt even keep up a solid 30fps. So I dont see how original HW is better.

It's better if you are a collector so you want to have a reason to play these games instead of just collecting dust, waiting for disc rot and wondering why you paid $200 for a CD, but emulation itself brings so many quality-of-life options that make it more palatable to play today. Maybe you love the nostalgia of it but there is literally no examples where OG hardware is better than emulation.
 
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Outrun 2006 is also better via emulation.

The PC version is fine and there is even a fan made mod that makes some improvements. But it's still missing the bloom effects, which i think add a lot to this particular game's visuals.

You can emulate the arcade version via Teknoparrot or the PS3 one using RPCS3, which is a more complete version. The XBOX 360 version has issues in xenia.

Edit: PS3 version only has the SP content.
The PC version with the mod is great, supports modern resolutions and brings back online play.
 
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nkarafo

Member
I'm talking about a rare edge case, he's talking about a general principle. I'm well aware that emulators don't force you to use improvements. I still don't like them. And I used to be one of those dummies that swore by using emulators with a SuperEagle filter.
Any particular reason why you don't like them anymore? I don't think you elaborated and i'm legit curious what made you change your mind so drastically, to the point where you seem to outright hate them now.
 
I don't remember the Splinter Cell PC ports being bad, then again i might remember it wrong.
There was nothing wrong with the PC port, that was the first one I played before other versions. The only Splinter Cell I can remember being worse and it was the console version (PS2)....Double Agent? It literally looked like 2 different games and think it was made by completley different studios.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
The 60fps and analog controls they added to Tempest 2000 in the Llamasoft collection definitely makes a good game better.

Every 8-bit game with a clunky password save system is essentially saved by emulation, but I'll throw out Golvellius Valley of Doom as an especially dramatic example.
 

nkarafo

Member
The PC version with the mod is great, supports modern resolutions and brings back online play.
There are still some issues with it though. Other than the missing bloom effect (only the sun glare is restored) there are visual glitches in one track, i don't remember it's name, it's the one with the Ice theme. You can see missing graphics in the background at some point and a black void in their place.

But other than that, yes, it's the best version overall. If they fix those two remaining issues there will be no reason to play the others. Though i would prefer if the bloom was optional or if it was adjustable (the PS3 version is a bit too intense maybe).


There was nothing wrong with the PC port, that was the first one I played before other versions. The only Splinter Cell I can remember being worse and it was the console version (PS2)....Double Agent? It literally looked like 2 different games and think it was made by completley different studios.
Both PS2 and Gamecube ports of all Splinter Cell games were worse than the XBOX/PC versions. They were all missing most of the awesome dynamic shadows/lights that made these games look so good in the first place.
 
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Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
I’m not a big fan of software emulation aside from the PS360 era stuff for the reasons OP listed.

But I do enjoy playing hacked roms on the MiSTER every so often, especially if they fix fundamental parts of the games. Like there’s a great hack for Alien Soldier on the Genesis that fixes the awkward controls and way the power ups work.

I’d also probably play more classic RPGs if they changed level scaling to remove all the grinding in those games.

And of course I love full-ass romhacks, like all of the wild Super Mario World kaizo games and randomizers for OoT and Super Metroid.
 

Futaleufu

Member
Emulation is the ONLY way to play a lot of these older games. I'll happily emulate something like Splinter Cell rather than play the PC port. Too bad there's still a ways to go for Xbox emulation until it's in a really good place.
The PC version is the best way to play Splinter Cell, best aim with a mouse and you select movement speed using the mouse wheel.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
"Fixing" old code is not that easy; in fact I'd argue that its frequently easier to simply recreate from scratch.

Case-in-point: I've recently got back into C64 programming, just as fun hobby and a bit of nostalgia as it was what I started my dev career on back in the mid-80's. Now, while I have been working on a new project for awhile, but as a side-thing I've also been working on bringing back an unfinished game I did back in 1989 for which I no longer have the source code.

Basically I started with a snapshot made with a freezer cartridge back in the day, and nothing else!. Its enough, but its been way slower going than I expected even though obviously I do have the advantages of modern tools and having written the thing in the first place - albeit that "in the first place" is a time in my life 30 plus years ago that' pretty damn fuzzy!

Point being, doing small stuff like adding "trainer" type features like infinite lives or level skips isn't bad at all; but chasing down bugs and rewriting sections of code to change function is a lot more work on top of coding the thing I want to code, because you have to fully understand how everything works, where it sits in memory etc. And of course sometimes even when you do have a clear understanding of everything bugs can still be difficult to isolate and squash.

Obviously my ability ,(or lack thereof !), is the same so I think I can make this observation fairly having recent experience doing new original work on the same old tech.
 
Another example I thought of is Phantasy Star Online. Netplay for the DC/GC hardware is long gone, but it's possible to connect online via the emulators still.
 
That doesn't even make sense. You'd rather emulate the Xbox version of Splinter Cell than play the PC version, but Xbox emulation is bad?

The emulation crowd might be the only group less sensible than the PCMR types.
The PC version is inferior to the Xbox version and I'd rather not play it at all than play a buggy weaker version. It's getting closer to being able to be emulated well enough with Xemu. If they can keep up progress, eventually it'll be the best way to play. You'll get the optimal controls (it was designed for Xbox controller) and a lot of the effects in the game are broken on PC even with mods. Things like night vision effects, a lot of shadow casting lights are missing, shadows are broken, and there are weird pop in and out issues. It's just best on Xbox, plain and simple.
I don't remember the Splinter Cell PC ports being bad, then again i might remember it wrong.
It's not "bad" if you don't mind all the stuff I mentioned above, but I'm more of a purist and want it to be played in the most optimal state it possibly can be. That means the Xbox version.
The PC version is the best way to play Splinter Cell, best aim with a mouse and you select movement speed using the mouse wheel.
I'll give that mouse aiming just feels better, but I disagree about the movement. Using the scroll wheel to adjust movement speed takes all the challenge and skill out of a huge element of the game: grabbing enemies by quietly sneaking up behind them. Having to tilt the stick just the right amount to get to them quickly without being too loud makes for a very tense and difficult struggle that's a core part of the stealth challenge.
 
Tilt a stick more or less is very challenging. Wow.
This is insanely dismissive of the experience. Did you ever actually play the PC and Xbox version of Splinter Cell to compare? The PC version completely breaks the entire mechanic because all you have to do is notch in the right speed and then push WSAD. It makes it stupid easy. Meanwhile with the stick, you have to hold just the right amount of pressure while also being stressed out from timing things just right. Honestly I shouldn't even engage with someone who has such a simplistic and ignorant take on this.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
This is insanely dismissive of the experience. Did you ever actually play the PC and Xbox version of Splinter Cell to compare? The PC version completely breaks the entire mechanic because all you have to do is notch in the right speed and then push WSAD. It makes it stupid easy. Meanwhile with the stick, you have to hold just the right amount of pressure while also being stressed out from timing things just right. Honestly I shouldn't even engage with someone who has such a simplistic and ignorant take on this.
Don't you know that you can use a controller on the PC version?? But saying "being stressed" says it all about your lvl of skill using a stick.
 
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Klosshufvud

Member
By the way, I imagine emulating PS2 GTA San Andreas and Vice City are the best ways to play those games. Since they had certain lighting and other effects that the PC version deleted.
 

GametimeUK

Member
Deadly Premonition is the only one so far that I've emulated via RPCS3 due to the PC port being completely broken. I'm thinking of emulating Tomb Raider Anniversary on PCSX2 because when I played it on GoG I experienced severe slow downs/frame drops in the Greece level to the point it became unplayable. Ran flawlessly until then at 120 fps so no clue what happened. Couldn't find any info about it either.
I believe if i remember correctly that framerates above 60fps mess with Tomb Raider Anniversary. I can't remember the exact issue I had, but it might have been enemy AI or how fast the enemies die. Changing to 60hz in Nvidia Control Panel and just running at 60fps fixed it for me. I believe I beaten Greece too. This was the Steam version. Maybe 60fps will fix it for you as it did for me.

(Edit) and enable vsync)
 
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mhirano

Member
Silent Hill Downpour is a console exclusive but ran poorly on the PS3.
RPCS3 fix that
Red Dead Redemption 1 was much improved on emulators years before the PC launch
 
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