Eh, those are the "extremes" and to me it has nothing to do with the vegan (ethical) spirit. Same as with "high carb" vs. "low carb" crap, let me alone with that.
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Vegan community thread - Give Peas a Chance
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Eh, those are the "extremes" and to me it has nothing to do with the vegan (ethical) spirit. Same as with "high carb" vs. "low carb" crap, let me alone with that.
GoldenCrow
Member
From my understanding the raw food diets were debunked a long time ago, regardless of it being vegan or not. The basis to it sounded fine, i.e, that because the act of cooking food (be it heating, pickling, acidification or preserving) reduces the amount of nutritional qualities in the food it would therefore be better to eat the food raw. However the vast majority of foods we do not have strong enough stomach acid to break down the cell walls, nor is our stomach acid strong enough to kill off bacteria in most foods. Certain foods such as oils are better when they haven't gone through the process of heating but that is rare. Some of the most important foods to vegans such as fully grown dark leafy greens and fungi require to be processed prior to eating because their cell walls are so strong. Cooking is currently the most popular hypothesis on how as a species our brain evolved the way it did, as it removed the amount of energy required on digesting food.
There are a lot of reasons why veganism isn't more popular. Very few of them have to do with vegans themselves & almost all to do with the non-vegan people too lazy, scared, unwilling, ignorant and/or who-gives-a-fuck-y to do any big changes to their lives.
AppleSeason
Member
I wanted to ask a nasty question.
It's been 1.5 years since I went ovolactean (and vegan friendly if I have vegan people for dinner at home). Even though I am not a vegan (I tried, but I have failed to give up on all dairy products), people tend to mistake me by one due to moral views on treatment of animals, appearing in every anti bullfighting demonstration and defending veganism at the office whenever they start shit talking about it (most of my friends are vegan and trying to convince me to fully go that way until the end). In the end although I have decided to give up on meat for health reasons, I ended finding myself that I would not eat (same for avoiding as many animal products as possible) for moral / ethical reasons.
What worries me is that in a few months I will be in some specific conditions were I won't be able to keep my diet. Quite possibly no available vegan or vegetarian options, too weak to cook my own, needing lots of protein after surgery, etc. Worst case scenario I would have to go back to meat for some time, no other way around
The thing is? How do you deal with the moral part of feeling like a monster? I have considered volunteering at an animal shelter once I am recovered.
It's been 1.5 years since I went ovolactean (and vegan friendly if I have vegan people for dinner at home). Even though I am not a vegan (I tried, but I have failed to give up on all dairy products), people tend to mistake me by one due to moral views on treatment of animals, appearing in every anti bullfighting demonstration and defending veganism at the office whenever they start shit talking about it (most of my friends are vegan and trying to convince me to fully go that way until the end). In the end although I have decided to give up on meat for health reasons, I ended finding myself that I would not eat (same for avoiding as many animal products as possible) for moral / ethical reasons.
What worries me is that in a few months I will be in some specific conditions were I won't be able to keep my diet. Quite possibly no available vegan or vegetarian options, too weak to cook my own, needing lots of protein after surgery, etc. Worst case scenario I would have to go back to meat for some time, no other way around
The thing is? How do you deal with the moral part of feeling like a monster? I have considered volunteering at an animal shelter once I am recovered.I take it most people here have tried BBQ jackfruit? I've only recently been (mostly) vegan for a few months but after finally finding it in a small asian foods store I am in love! Probably my favourite meal so far. Will need to make again.
I was skeptical for years on going off meat but it's been super easy.
I was skeptical for years on going off meat but it's been super easy.
You're going to stay in a hospital for recovery or something? You can ask if they have at least vegetarian options. The hospital in my city does offer vegan food. Or at least vegetarian, not sure how strictly they try to hold off on using dairy products or other animal products (luckily haven't had to stay there, but I know they have some kind of option for non-meaty foods).I wanted to ask a nasty question.
It's been 1.5 years since I went ovolactean (and vegan friendly if I have vegan people for dinner at home). Even though I am not a vegan (I tried, but I have failed to give up on all dairy products), people tend to mistake me by one due to moral views on treatment of animals, appearing in every anti bullfighting demonstration and defending veganism at the office whenever they start shit talking about it (most of my friends are vegan and trying to convince me to fully go that way until the end). In the end although I have decided to give up on meat for health reasons, I ended finding myself that I would not eat (same for avoiding as many animal products as possible) for moral / ethical reasons.
What worries me is that in a few months I will be in some specific conditions were I won't be able to keep my diet. Quite possibly no available vegan or vegetarian options, too weak to cook my own, needing lots of protein after surgery, etc. Worst case scenario I would have to go back to meat for some time, no other way around
AppleSeason
Member
In The 3-5 days I will be at The hospital The diet would be no issue, but the rest of the recovery is 2-3 weeks stuck in a hotel (daily nurse visits, not allowed to leave), with whatever I can order from the hotel's restaurant. And the last time I was there, it wasn't exactly veg friendly. It's a situation in which I don't have a lot of alternatives. Worse than thr Christmas dinner with family (where I pulled a photo of a duck with an overgrown liver when they were eating pâté to show them what they were really eating).
My personal opinion is, that It should not matter the reasons - if it's a good hotel it should give you what you need/wish for, especially of you are getting treatment and you are on recovery. But that's wishful thinking of course and a very special case
The christmas part, well that's some guts you got there. I have a "live and let live" policy when it comes to my family, but it often hurts sitting next to them and watching them eating animals. I always think I do more harm with such doings, than with calmly explaining when I am getting asked.
I wish you luck and a fast recovery!
Maybe try finding a restaurant that would deliver food to you in the hotel, if that is at all possible/allowed? I'm sure many restaurants would be happy to get a single paying customer for every day for 2-3 weeks. Or demand a vegan alternative from the hotel (start calling them in advance or better yet, go talk to the chef in advance and explain your situation), since you ARE giving them money for such a long time. They should make accommodations for such special customers.
AppleSeason
Member
The experience I have had is that people have an obsession with adding meat to stuff that should be meat free. I'd probably end picking up the small bits apart. In any case, I don't speak the language there so things would be complicated.
Originally I was going to have the person who introduced me to veganism accompany me (and get a room with kitchen) until I would be strong enough to buy and cook my own groceries,but it was not possible in the end. So I will have some days where I am limited to the hotel's food. I also don't speak the language there, so I can't get them to tailor the dish or replace stuff.
Regarding my family... I am usually ok with people consuming meat in a responsible way, but liver paté is pretty much animal cruelty, and the kind of thing that triggers my temper. I always try to have them trying vegan and vegetarian stuff, but they are like "blegh, modern stuff" and "Where do you get your protein from"
Thanks. I hope it too. I have always wondered about if the vegan diet has enough nutrients for one of those "you have to eat a lot" to recover moments, or if I am doing it in the right way. My tests indicate that I have a good health, but I've never been under the knife on this situation.
Originally I was going to have the person who introduced me to veganism accompany me (and get a room with kitchen) until I would be strong enough to buy and cook my own groceries,but it was not possible in the end. So I will have some days where I am limited to the hotel's food. I also don't speak the language there, so I can't get them to tailor the dish or replace stuff.
Regarding my family... I am usually ok with people consuming meat in a responsible way, but liver paté is pretty much animal cruelty, and the kind of thing that triggers my temper. I always try to have them trying vegan and vegetarian stuff, but they are like "blegh, modern stuff" and "Where do you get your protein from"
Thanks. I hope it too. I have always wondered about if the vegan diet has enough nutrients for one of those "you have to eat a lot" to recover moments, or if I am doing it in the right way. My tests indicate that I have a good health, but I've never been under the knife on this situation.
Just had my blood work done for the second time in 9 months after joining the vegan lifestyle.. great numbers once again.
So many people on GAF are claiming you shouldn't eat fruits "high in sugar".. I eat apples, oranges, bananas and dates almost daily and my blood sugar is great. I don't get the fruit scare..
Here's to a year (soon).
So many people on GAF are claiming you shouldn't eat fruits "high in sugar".. I eat apples, oranges, bananas and dates almost daily and my blood sugar is great. I don't get the fruit scare..
Here's to a year (soon).
HiredN00bs
Member
It's not that fruit is bad, just that there are fad diets promoted by some vegans centered around fruit that aren't nutritionally complete. Fruits can have a lot of calories because of their sugar, so if you're trying to limit calories and stay nutritionally complete, they can be less than ideal, especially because vegan proteins can be taxing on a calorie budget.
I've been vegan for almost a year and have never heard of any credible sources recommending a diet centered around fruit. It's a typically a balance of lots of things. I eat more variety of foods than I ever have in my life.
You can technically be vegan and eat only Skittles.. But that's just a problem with the individual, not veganism.
They're not "less than ideal" unless you're going out of your way to eat too many.
This is from first hand experience (my girlfriend and I).
There are lots of people on this very forum who are telling others to stay away from basic fruits. That's ridiculous.
Inferno313
Banned
Hey guys. I've recently decided to make the journey towards going vegan! My amazing fiancé has, very gently, been talking to me about the idea since we started dating 2 years ago, she's been vegan since shortly after we started dating. I made the decision a few months ago to give up meat, and now I'm fully trying to cut dairy and animal products from my diet.
It's really not been as hard as I expected it to be. My fiancé has been amazing, and has been making some absolutely delicious vegan meals for me she's finding on pinterest and elsewhere online. I don't really have anything super meaningful to contribute yet, but I just wanted to say that I'm really excited and it feels great to know that something didn't have to die for my meal.
It's really not been as hard as I expected it to be. My fiancé has been amazing, and has been making some absolutely delicious vegan meals for me she's finding on pinterest and elsewhere online. I don't really have anything super meaningful to contribute yet, but I just wanted to say that I'm really excited and it feels great to know that something didn't have to die for my meal.
"You've taken your first step into a larger world."
Welcome! I'm pretty new too, I'm at 9 months. I was also surprised to see how easy it was to give up. Congrats on making the decision.
That's awesome! I bet your fiancé is super happy about it
Let us know if you have any questions going forward, but dating a vegan is probably one of the best ways of transitioning into becoming one lol. Now if only my girlfriend would go vegan...
entremet
Member
It's flat out not supported in the science. We're more starchy cooked carb eaters than anything else. You need to eats tons of raw fruits and veggies to get the calorie requirements for most people.
Cooking stuff like tubers releases a lot of calories that our dietary tract can now access.
I don't get why there are so many people on this board who are getting hung up on the minority of vegans who are apparently focusing their diet on raw fruit.
There's crazy extremes in every type of diet. This is not representative of veganism. Everything my GF and I have seen over the course of the last year has been promoting a balanced diet filled with fats, carbs, fruits, veggies and grains.
Focusing on the minority in an already minority community detracts from effective discussion.
Inferno313
Banned
The fiancé made another delicious vegan meal last night. We made vegan philly's using a combination of seitan "steak" and mushrooms, along with a delicious cashew "cheese" drizzle. Fucking excellent.
The restaurant I began working at made these really good nut-steaks. It had hazelnuts & peanuts + some mashed potatoes & some kinds of flours (maybe tapioca and maize flour or something of the sort) to hold it together. I didn't personally participate in the making of them so I don't remember the recipe too accurately (although I did take a look at the recipe paper), but I really need to get the recipe and have to start making them myself. Not that I cook all that much on weekdays nowadays, since I get a free meal at work and only need to eat a little bit of snack in the evening. Only cook on the weekends.
entremet
Member
You're a chef?
Trying to be. Meant to start an apprenticeship in a vegan restaurant in August but that fell through so now I'm at this kind of "work experiment" thing in another such restaurant in which I can try working in some profession I'm interested in pursuing before fully committing myself to it (i.e. taking on an apprenticeship or going to some school to get a degree in the profession).
It's currently only a test period and not a full-on apprenticeship because the future of the restaurant is somewhat uncertain, so it didn't make sense to start an apprenticeship if they can't guarantee they can commit to it much more than ~3 months. Their lease is up and they aren't sure if they can continue (in the current location or at all) past the end of the year or if they can afford to pay me if their rent ends up being much higher going on forward, even if they continue. So I'll test this out and see whether it seems like something I'd like to turn into a profession and once their future becomes clearer, we can make a decision whether or not I'll start the apprenticeship there or if I have to figure out something else.
I'm enjoying it so far (even if I've had to peel an ungodly amount of carrots, onions, garlic and such.
), much more than the teacher's job that I previously had.Sometimes I wish I would be overweight instead of underweight. I mean, I did get dumb sayings before I went vegan as well (I have the same weigth now), but you can imagine the "jokes" I get. I am used to nasty stuff since I was a child, but now I often feel helpless - and adults can be as nasty as childs, I tell you. I could argue with my heart disease since that's mildly connected, but I don't want to discuss that with randoms at all, that's none of their business.
It's also not helping the cause for protein/vitamin arguments at all, the opposit is the case - I am a VERY healthy eater - I can eat a lot of food! But on the other side, if I would be overweigth, the argument for "a vegan diet is unhealthy" could be made as well. I am just very frustrated right now... :-(
It's also not helping the cause for protein/vitamin arguments at all, the opposit is the case - I am a VERY healthy eater - I can eat a lot of food! But on the other side, if I would be overweigth, the argument for "a vegan diet is unhealthy" could be made as well. I am just very frustrated right now... :-(
If it makes you feel any better the fattest person I know by far is a gluten free vegan!
There's plenty of people out there who can get up to a healthy weight on a vegan diet, and even more who are at an unhealthy weight on any sort of diet. The secret is to feel good about yourself first.
Yeah, your body has accustomed to your current workout regime and will be requiring a bit more maintenance at all times. People who exercise a lot can have a higher metabolism rate even on their off days, so you maybe need to eat a bit more even on days you aren't exercising.
Zantetsuken
Member
I'm seriously thinking about going vegan. The problem is that I didn't really eat many kinds of vegetables growing up. I'm 31 and I'm getting really concerned about my health. Both of my parents are diabetic and I don't want that for myself. I know it will be difficult at first trying to transition but I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Which brings me to my next problem: where can I get a good simple eating plan?
anonymous_abc
Member
We picked this up at the Vegan fair last weekend. I think it could be a good start.
Also next time you go out to dinner find a 100% vegan place and marvel at the selection of what you can eat without compromise and no need to study the fine print.
Zantetsuken
Member
Thanks for the quick reply! It's like a new world I'm discovering. I will definitely check it out.
Basically just buy varied stuff from different food groups and mix & match them the best you can everyday, eating enough of each group. Buy a few different kinds of nuts & seeds (you don't need to eat much of these per day, a handful at most), different legumes, beans & lentils (and stuff made out of them, like soy granules, tofu, falafel etc., if you don't think you can prepare them yourself), varied selection of fresh vegetables & fruits and make sure you get enough of some nutrients like B12 vitamin from somewhere (pills, vegan milks with it added, nutritional yeast or whatever is available where you live).
As long as you don't fall into the habit of only eating a few different things all the time (unless they are carefully picked things that give you all that you need) but try to expand your diet to be as varied as possible, you shouldn't have the need to micromanage your diet too carefully to get all the necessary nutrients you need to stay healthy.
That said, stuff like spinach, kale, lentils, chickpeas, flaxseeds, all beans, peanuts & such are something you might want to keep in a bit more regular rotation for good sources of calcium, iron, omega-3s, zinc, protein & such, otherwise just try to find your culinarily adventurous side and try as many new things as possible and add everything you like into your diet rotation.
And don't worry, it's actually not all that hard. It might feel so before trying, but if you get sucked into trying all kinds of different new things, you might be surprised how fast time goes by with you trying all kinds of new foods that you probably never thought of trying when you could just grab some bacon or chicken or whatever your preferred meat from the store. I was one of those "I can't live without pepperoni pizza" types of people in 2009 still. Then there was this meatless january 2010 challenge that I participated in (I was studying biology and started understanding just how bad meat & dairy production is, which encouraged me to try the challenge). That month went by extremely quickly without me missing meat all that much and other than a couple of drunken kebab-pizza mishaps during the first spring in 2010, I've been on that path ever since.
EDIT: Also, a word of advice, if/when you start exploring the world of tofu, vegan cheeses & such, just know that the quality varies a lot and stuff like tofu can be anything from "totally disgusting" to "supreme treat", depending on who's the manufacturer and how you use it (if firm tofu isn't to your liking cubed & marinaded no matter if you buy premium stuff, know that you can make stuff like a delicious garlic spread from it that you can use on bread and such). Vegan cheeses go from "this is almost indistinguishable from the "real" deal" to "this doesn't resemble cheese at all, but it tastes pretty good" and "this doesn't taste all that good and its texture is all wrong".
CornBurrito
Member
What's a good substitute for creme fraiche when making creamed spinach?
Zantetsuken
Member
Thanks for the reply. I need to step my cooking game up it seems. I was just going to eat oatmeal every morning. lol What is good for on the go? I'm a cable guy so I would have to meal prep some stuff for throughout the day until I can make it home.
So B12 is normally found in meats? Are supplements recommended? I signed up for that beginner vegan kit on Peta's website also.
Oh true, I'm dumb.
I bought more food yesterday when I went shopping haha. Tried to go for food that were pretty calorie dense because I'm already eating an ungodly volume of food as it is...
You absolutely need to take B12 supplements if you go vegan. Either buy food that are reinforced in B12 (if you live in the US it shouldn't be too bad, when I was there I saw rice/almond/etc. milk that had added B12) or just eat a B12 pill every few days (the exact frequency depends on the type you get).
I even suggest B12 to non-vegan people. There are convenient ways of supplementing it. I use toothpaste and chewable tablet, since B12 is best absorbed via oral mucosa (I needed to google the english translation, heh).
Some peolle can't absorb it and may need an injection, but best is to check it yearly (paried with your HOLO-TC).
Some peolle can't absorb it and may need an injection, but best is to check it yearly (paried with your HOLO-TC).
Not nearly enough, unless that's different in the USA?
While I (like many of you, I'm sure) like to cook most of my meals, I wanted to share some recent store-bought finds that are particularly tasty. The pizza in particular is really good; I find the frozen Daiya pizzas (available in Canada and the US) can get a little boring/unappetizing over time; your mileage may vary.
trab pu kcip
Member
sorry but this is BS imo. supplementing beyond soymilk etc. is crucial. it may take several years for the deficiency to become visible but as soon as it does you're fucked. speaking from experience here. don't let it come this far.
panda-zebra
Member
Here's a good number of my running club before the Stockport 10k on Sunday - there were over 70 of us in total, over 1 in 10 of the field Vegan Runners. Two of our young hill runners placed 2nd and 4th and we got the team win. Plant power
Yeah, supplements for B12 are pretty much mandatory. You don't necessarily need to eat pills everyday if you have days heavy with vegetable milks and other sources with decent amounts of B12, but a pill every other/three days is probably wise. I mean, technically you could probably get enough by drinking some veggie milks, but that's probably not the healthiest alternative and it can become a bit costly since they are relatively expensive (in Finland, if I were to drink enough, say, soy milk to get B12, it would cost me something like 75)
The Emperor
Member
Hey, congratulations and welcome!
That article on protein is a bit misleading. Saying that broccoli has more protein than meat is technically true if you compare them calorie-wise. Realistically, however, the amount of broccoli you have to eat to get a comparable amount of protein to, say, a steak is huge. But you don't have to worry about protein. Nearly everything you eat will have protein, and you likely only need to get around 50-60 grams a day which is easily achieved. Don't worry about mixing and matching amino acids. All foods have all the amino acids you need, but in different ratios. As long as you eat enough calories and in a fairly varied way, you'll be good. Don't be afraid of non-fermented soy, either, unless you have a specific allergy. It's not only harmless in normal quantities, but healthy. If you want references, I'll be happy to provide some.
Do take a B12 supplement. It's a cheap and easy way to ensure that you won't get deficient which could lead to permanent neurological damage. I do a 2500mcg cyanocobalamin once a week. I don't take an omega supplement, but I do eat flaxseed almost daily. I also take some vitamin D on most days since I don't get a lot of sun.
Check out www.veganhealth.org for good info on nutrition.
Some random tips:
- youtube is a great source for recipes
- keep trying new recipes! I recently learned to love tahini and I'm currently making some awesome, creamy sauces with it
- don't beat yourself up if you have a slip-up. do the best you can!
- keep educating yourself to stay motivated. youtube and books are good for this
- 7 Habits of Happy, Healthy Vegans
Good luck and don't be afraid of asking more questions
Fanx for your encouragement guys!!!
I have successfully done 2 weeks.
Really gotten into enjoying stuff like sweet potatoe & butternut squash....two things I'd never have touched before.
Putting spinach in at least one meal a day.
Almond milk is lushhh!!! Need to remember to buy some Vit B12 supplements...still not got any!! Gettin vitamin D in every day though.
Got firm Tofu too Famassu...realised you were right about Soy products being demonised lol. Anyway not a huge fan of the "non deep fried" variety. But I've found some shops selling dried soy chunks which act as meat subtitutes that look nice so will be trying them soon.
I also tried some Seiten today...a chorizo sausage made from it. Was alright...tbh I'm not sure how I feel about having a pure gluten product.
Having an indian background has made this easy as there are so many dishes I know that utitilise chick peas, red kidney beans and pulses. So been making those for the proteinzzz!
My main difficulty thus far was in regards to finding a good substitute for cream. Coconut milk is great but it made my 'creamy tomatoe' pasta cause taste weird. The 'alpro soy cream' has too much added sugar in it for me to be comfortable with too. Anyway I then used 'coconut cream'. OMG it is amazing!!! It didn't have that coconut aftertaste either so worked well as a cream substitute.
My ongoing difficulty now is meals out. Most places make veggie stuff taste horrid imo. It's either too sour, sweet or tastes of nothing. And of course 90% of places have cheese as the 'main item'. Ethnic restaurants don't have this problem of course. Living in the UK I love pub grub though...sometimes they do veggie sausages which is awesome though.
So the biggest enjoyment I have got out of this is trying out new veg. I at lots of veg anyway but it was all the same stuff. Also I've been going to a local market to buy veg, just feels more right!
Edit:
Oh yeah I got some Vegan cheddar cheese slices today. Not gonna sugar coat it...they were gross. Like seriously disgusting
anonymous_abc
Member
Oh yeah I got some Vegan cheddar cheese slices today. Not gonna sugar coat it...they were gross. Like seriously disgusting
Fake cheese and meat are very hit and miss. You'll just have to try arround till you find some you like.
Some are awesome, some .... not so much.
Definitely agreed; some are awesome, some are vile. What brand? UK based and Violife is pretty decent although for melting it's naff (the for pizza is better, much better) and Violife is godlike although their melty despite tasting pretty great doesn't melt.
Then we have Sheese which tastes like arse (or what I imagine arse tastes like).
Yeah, it's hard to find a pizza-compatible cheese. There was one vegan cheese brand that worked well with pizza that was sold pre-grated in a bag. It was available a couple of years ago but it has since disappeared. It wasn't perfect, but it did do a good enough job of adding something cheese-like to the pizza that I didn't have to go on a venture to find a replacement. Some vegan cheeses are too sticky once you melt them on a pizza. The taste isn't necessarily bad, but when melted on a pizza it get stuck on your teeth really hard, which makes for an unpleasant eating experience.
This?
After 10 years Vegan whilst I love and have a constant supply of Vegan pizza cheese I can happily go without cheese on pizza (maybe a little nooch).
trab pu kcip
Member
I had this tragic experience where I found this awesome vegan cheese in a tiny store and I went back for more at some point but I couldn't remember what it was called. all I knew was that it's firm and round so you had to cut it into pieces. but there are several ones like that. I think I ended up getting sheese because it tasted awful. ;(
matthewwhatever
Member
Daiya is pretty good for melted cheese. Ironically, their brand of pizzas suck, with the taste and texture of cardboard. Gluten-free products are the worst!
I'd second nooch on pizza, too. Oh She Glows has a simple recipe for nooch cheesy sauce.
I'd second nooch on pizza, too. Oh She Glows has a simple recipe for nooch cheesy sauce.