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Veilguard Director interview: hate campaign towards the game is "a little naive"; devs need to "see themselves reflected in their work", and more

LectureMaster

Gold Member
Well there it is, folks. When EA finally reveals the game's sales figures, it's gonna be all your bigoted incels' smear that wronged the gracious game!




Questions about BioWare’s future abound, especially with the team now pivoting to focus work on Mass Effect 5 — a similarly long-awaited comeback for a beloved franchise. But in the immediate future the studio has faced a different problem, a hate campaign that’s put Veilguard at the center of a kind of culture war on social media, along with plenty of hateful comments toward developers and review bombing on sites like Metacritic.

“I think we should talk about it,” Busche says. “It’s hard. I grew up in a time when it really felt like we’re there to celebrate the games and to have these shared experiences, and that drive is still there. I think the discourse we see is the result of highly polarized times, and perhaps it’s a little naive. I know it’s hard when you have to ask the question, is this game for me? Do I belong here? And games are better for it when we can say yes, you do belong here.”




Dragon Age is far from the only game that’s come under fire recently, particularly for inclusions of diversity, or diverse storytelling. For most of this year, Assassin’s Creed Shadows has been the constant target of a hate campaign, with Ubisoft’s art director recently condemning the backlash and harassment the studio and team has faced. The creator of the indie game Tales of Kenzera: ZAU, Abubakar Salim, has also been vocal about the “fever pitch” of racism the game and its team have received. These kinds of events seem to be happening more and more, but for BioWare and Busche, the focus is on celebrating what the team has created.

“I know, and something that’s very important to me, is that games are inherently diverse when you think about the size of these teams and the specializations you have within them. When you have diverse, complex, large groups of people coming together to make something, of course, the game is going to be a reflection of those teams,” says Busche “I think we need to consider that we can make the most authentic, best experiences when we’re tying into what makes us as the developers, and you as the fans, when we can tie into those elements that make us distinctly human, and that means differences.”

In Busche’s mind, not embracing the lived experiences of the development team would result in stories and worlds that feel less relatable, less alive. Game developers also need to feel safe in what they do, which ultimately means being able to see themselves reflected in their work.


 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
I 100% agree if you want to make a work of art for yourself then you should be able too.

However on the flipside since your marketing it as a product I have the right to not buy it and make sure that you understand that this is a direct consequence of you doing that.

I think the person who wrote this is a little fucking naïve when it comes to products, at the end of the day I have the money and choose what to spend it on, the fact so few decided to spend it on yours despite being a well established IP should be telling you something.
 
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Cakeboxer

Member
"I know, and something that’s very important to me, is that games are inherently diverse when you think about the size of these teams and the specializations you have within them. When you have diverse, complex, large groups of people coming together to make something, of course, the game is going to be a reflection of those teams"

Who gives a fuck about the composition of the team? Make what the people who are supposed to buy your product want or hire a better composition. This is not some romantic hippy shit where you can express and live your feelings, it's serious business.
 
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devutos

Neo Member
"I look at Atlus as a whole and think about what is best for our team to create right now. Firstly, I want the users to be happy, and, as a result, I hope the company will be happy as well. That is how I always work."

Katsura Hashino, director of Persona and Metaphor

That's the attitude of good developers that make good games. Mediocre developers who make mediocre games on the other hand operate like Bioware.
 

laynelane

Member
In Busche’s mind, not embracing the lived experiences of the development team would result in stories and worlds that feel less relatable, less alive. Game developers also need to feel safe in what they do, which ultimately means being able to see themselves reflected in their work.

That's one of the reasons Veilguard didn't do well. People weren't looking for the "lived experiences" of the developers - they were looking for a great Dragon Age game. This person's approach to game development is very narcissistic and doesn't bode well for any future projects.

 
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Mister Wolf

Member
Hetero Male Gamers: This is what we like and want.

Weirdo Devs: Well we've been catering to you for decades so we want to do something different.

Hetero Male Gamers: As you should be catering. We are overwhelmingly the primary consumer. Our money made this industry what it is to today.

Weirdo Devs: Well we're changing it anyway and if you don't continue supporting us you're a (Insert Shaming Language).

Hetero Male Gamers: Go fuck yourself.
 
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Pejo

Gold Member
The only thing this article did was jumpscare me that these same people are moving on to Mass Effect next. How much money do they have to lose before they get replaced? How many 6-8 year dev cycles are we going to have to wait through until we get a good game without ideology shit ruining it.
 

LectureMaster

Gold Member
qWUv5et.jpeg
 

PeteBull

Member
I think this dev, like so many other western devs, forgot who is in charge, its not them, its ppl who's money they trying to get, so first and most important point of ur game is to make sure its good/attractive enough product so players aka ur customers are compelled to buy, if not then it can get reviews and praise from sellout journos to hell and back, and game will still be considered a flop, just like DA:V :)
 

winjer

Gold Member
The first line was my comment, lol. I meant that when the time comes to reveal the number, they are gonna blame bigoted gamers for the commercial failure.

OK. I misunderstood.
Admittedly, they are already blaming gamers for not buying the game.
As if a company is entitled to our money, just because.

It used to be that all devs understood that if they made a good game, that people wanted to buy, then it would sell a lot.
Modern devs think that gamers must give them money, no matter what.
It's a pernicious mentality, that is resulting in a ton of big games failing miserably at launch.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Christ on a bike, can he/she/they/it/cunt be any more condescending... Fuck off, it's real simple, games do not need to have your political ideology in them, they don't need your narrow world view in them and they sure as shit dont need modern day woke nonsense in an RPG game meant for the masses, by you trying to cater to the Pride Parade gamers means you alienated all the other gamers and if that's your thing by all means go for it but do not blame us when we go keep your top scarred freaky looking fucks with HR approved writing and we'll go play Warhammer Space Marines instead... What a twat and to think all those fucks are now moving onto Mass Effect, yeah can't wait to see the character creator for that one...
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I read stuff like this and it makes me so frustrated with the short-sightedness and honestly, stubborn refusal to self-reflect, on the part of these developers.

I get the desire for creative freedom and self-expression, but read the fucking room for heaven's sake!

The problem is not that a certain contingent actively dislike what you're doing, its that the majority of the potential audience does not resonate with what you are presenting to them.
Its that simple.

I'd say to them, ask yourselves honestly why your product is under-performing and respond accordingly. Because if you don't, why would you expect anything to change in the future?
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Hate campaigns and negativity bandwagons are a big problem nowadays.
Even good games (Yes, forspoken is amazing) get unfair hate campaigns sometimes.
But in case of veilguard... well... I've not played it personally but it doesn't look rpomising lol
 

Shubh_C63

Member
Devs should definitely make product they are proud of instead of money making machines, So he's right.
And we definitely chose to not buy bad products with our money, that is also right.

What not right is their attitude towards "my way or the highway" by calling anyone not aligned with their worldview racist, incel or bigoted. The Woke community had harassed people so much on social media with cancel culture do they really think the "hate response" and blowback came out of nowhere. Its not even hate actually, just stop ruining established games. Try making new ones then.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
I'd argue that anything rubbing a political ideology under the nose of every single recipient of your work automatically disqualifies it from being considered art.

Naaaa arts always been very political, it would boring as fuck without it. The difference here is they are not creating art (not really)

There's a huge debate about movie, television and games not being truely "art" and it's easy to see why, not every drawing is art, a fucking pie chart in Microsoft Excel with your quarterly earnings in not art. Same with other media, the News is not art, The Transformers movies are not art.

Not all games are art, but you can easily point to the ones that are. Kojima titles (heavily political too), Journey and Rez. You know this because you understand that the game is a vehicle for something much more, it makes you feel and think about things.

Vielguard is not, it's a product for the friends of the developers that wants to pretend its more than it is. The fact the people making it can't even understand that difference and gave this interview explains a lot. Just like their game, their understanding is surface level.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
lol your one man marketing campaign for this game is making me tempted to pick it up during the sales season.
do it. Gameplay is sick, graphics are sick, there is so much detail in that game. It's a very high budget production if anything. I think you will be surprised.
I posted some video and screenshots here, so you can judge
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Naaaa arts always been very political, it would boring as fuck without it. The difference here is they are not creating art (not really)

There's a huge debate about movie, television and games not being truely "art" and it's easy to see why, not every drawing is art, a fucking pie chart in Microsoft Excel with your quarterly earnings in not art. Same with other media, the News is not art, The Transformers movies are not art.

Not all games are art, but you can easily point to the ones that are. Kojima titles (heavily political too), Journey and Rez. You know this because you understand that the game is a vehicle for something much more, it makes you feel and think about things.

Vielguard is not, it's a product for the friends of the developers that wants to pretend its more than it is. The fact the people making it can't even understand that difference and gave this interview explains a lot.
Also, sometimes the worldviews the "artist" wants to "express" aren't worth viewing to begin it. Intersectionality, which these people strongly believe, is absolutely dogshit as far as worldviews go. It'll never make a fictional world interesting or more by having it. Not to mention its something everyone is tired of hearing about already.
 
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Outlier

Member
Devs can put as much of themselves into their games, as much as they/them want.

Doesn't mean I have to buy or play it...
 
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Bernardougf

Member
Well games were made by mostly male nerds for nerds ... now is made by purple hair from 700 genders for purple hair ... thats fair ... mainstream + DEI was bound to make this happen .. games are, as people like to point out, "art" and as such will contain some reflection of the author(s)

So I can agree of some of what he is saying ... he just should acknowledge that while this "diverse" group of people can make games "more diverse" as a reflection .. not all type of games are sold to a diverse group of people unfortunately .. many products have target demographics ... and your product no matter the artist should be focused on them IF you want to maximize sales. If not... thats fine, make your passion project and just accept it will not have ample good reception (by gamers.. the woke access media dosent count) and good sales.. it will be a niche product for a niche public.

Another thing is quality ... DEI culture as implemented today, probably brings quality down by a lot of ways, mostly by not hiring solely by merit, creating a toxic positivy environment and pushing away devs that dont want to participate in this circus.
 
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EN250

Member
"games are inherently diverse when you think about the size of these teams and the specializations you have within them. When you have diverse, complex, large groups of people coming together to make something, of course, the game is going to be a reflection of those teams"

That's not the way you sell a product, you check the market audience its aimed to and try cater to that market, sure you wanna push some outlier stuff, you can do it as a minor side thing, not front and center and so integral to the product that its audience wants none of it, like this ad for cars that has no cars in it but tries to push something else:

 
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