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VICE: Being LGBT in Pakistan [video]

M

Messofanego

Banned
VICE News Blackout Episode 1: Being LGBT in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

This documentary was shot a year ago I think but only now showing properly on the VICE News channel.

It's a clever opening showing the Islamic State terrorists talking casually about how they killed a couple of gay men, giving the impression that if you're homophobic, you're not much different than these terrorists that you supposedly don't want representing islam.

Goes into how transwomen and gay men live their lives and go about their dating secretly. Mentions the dating apps. Despite Pakistan being incredibly intolerant towards LGBT people being an islamic republic, behind closed doors it all happens. One controversial Islamic cleric is shown, Maulana Abdul Aziz, who basically takes the side of ISIS at the start of the video that Shariah law states to throw gay people off the top of tall buildings. Qasim Iqbal mentions as a LGBT activist how he's sent videos of crimes against LGBT people but they can't report it to authorities or the Human Rights Commission in Pakistan because no justice will be sought. Qasim mentions why there shouldn't be discrimination because Islamic teachings aren't about discrimination against minorities whether or not Allah approves of non-straight sexuality. Leave it up to God/Allah, you know, but so many people have such a judgement and murder urge against anyone different from them. Murdering someone means you're set to Hell anyway, but that doesn't register in violent homophobes' brains.

Frankly, it's about high time that the government made homosexuality, gay marriage, and being LGBT legal in Pakistan. Maybe it will take until more politicians or public figures have children who turn out to be non-straight for there to be empathy and awareness spreading. Or the country can just keep on suffering like the ultra-conservative hellhole it still is. I might have to spread some awareness and knowledge when I head there in december for a couple of family weddings.
 
D

Dynasty

Member
Bit of anecdotal stuff. Went on Holiday last year and spent some time in a village in Kashmir where my family come from. There is a openly gay couple who walk around holding hands sometimes, they had been beaten recently(luckily nothing too serious), they also had buffalo shit thrown at them(this one I saw) Got mad respect for them being that brave, got to talk with one of them for a while before my ucle pulled me away. I responded I didnt know he was gay.
Sucks this is happening, I dont expect anything to change tbh, from my very limited knowledge of pakistani politics, the country has major corruption issues that need to be sorted before they can inact any meaningful progressive changes that will work.
 
S

SomewhatGroovy

Banned
Messofanego said:
VICE News Blackout Episode 1: Being LGBT in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

This documentary was shot a year ago I think but only now showing properly on the VICE News channel.

It's a clever opening showing the Islamic State terrorists talking casually about how they killed a couple of gay men, giving the impression that if you're homophobic, you're not much different than these terrorists that you supposedly don't want representing islam.

Goes into how transwomen and gay men live their lives and go about their dating secretly. Mentions the dating apps. Despite Pakistan being incredibly intolerant towards LGBT people being an islamic republic, behind closed doors it all happens. One controversial Islamic cleric is shown, Maulana Abdul Aziz, who basically takes the side of ISIS at the start of the video that Shariah law states to throw gay people off the top of tall buildings. Qasim Iqbal mentions as a LGBT activist how he's sent videos of crimes against LGBT people but they can't report it to authorities or the Human Rights Commission in Pakistan because no justice will be sought. Qasim mentions why there shouldn't be discrimination because Islamic teachings aren't about discrimination against minorities whether or not Allah approves of non-straight sexuality. Leave it up to God/Allah, you know, but so many people have such a judgement and murder urge against anyone different from them. Murdering someone means you're set to Hell anyway, but that doesn't register in violent homophobes' brains.

Frankly, it's about high time that the government made homosexuality, gay marriage, and being LGBT legal in Pakistan. Maybe it will take until more politicians or public figures have children who turn out to be non-straight for there to be empathy and awareness spreading. Or the country can just keep on suffering like the ultra-conservative hellhole it still is. I might have to spread some awareness and knowledge when I head there in december for a couple of family weddings.
Click to expand...

What awareness or knowledge do you think you can bestow and onto whom?

Here's the thing: no large number of politicians and public figures are going to speak out when their paying customers are conservative. This is a battle that gets won only when the majority have a change of heart on their own accord and not when a politician asks them to.

I keep going back to Saudi as an example of this . The government gets that inclusion is better for the economy and what's to progress to different states of social norms but they're never going to be able to do so while controlling or curbing the hostile reaction of a majority of the population.

Spreading awareness and knowledge is so vague I'm not sure what you mean by it.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
There's also a 2 year old documentary by the BBC on this entitled "How Gay is Pakistan"

Messofanego said:
I might have to spread some awareness and knowledge when I head there in december for a couple of family weddings.
Click to expand...
As someone currently living here, I'd just like to say this will not go well and you should be legitimately scared for your safety if the wrong people catch wind of this.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Messofanego said:
More among my extended family and friends there.
Click to expand...
It's still a risk tbh but it's up to you.

You can find religious zealots in the unlikeliest of places but you should be fine as long as you aren't moving here permanently or anything.

Most of the elite-class are well-educated and aware enough that they are aware and accepting but the majority of the people who don't belong to that class simply do not share this mentality.

One of my brother's colleagues is an almost-open ISIS supporter and he's apparently done a PhD. Trust me when I say that this fanaticism and zealotry can come out of nowhere which is why it's best to keep liberal views to yourself when dealing with people you don't know that well.
 
G

GameAddict411

Member
The issue of the LGBT community cruel treatment is a regional problem more than anything else. I grew up in the middle east and it was just as bad. Any country that adopted Sharia law will have similar treatment of LGBT people, and unfortunately these sort of things will never improve even in the distant future. We are talking about the abandonment of sharia law and getting a secular constitution that protects the rights of minorities without influence of religion. Even if this was attempted, the cultural setting is just not going to work. I would love to be proven wrong though.
 
G

Gunslinger

Member
Be careful TC. I am from Bangladesh and I live in US now although Bangladesh is becoming more and more liberal (which is s good thing) LGBT is still very sensitive issue and lot of people don't like it when you talk for it. I tried talking sense into some people once and believe me I had to give up due to how stubborn they are. They even told me they would not accept treatment from a doctor that's gay. At that point I am like fuck it I tried but there's no talking sense into them.
 
S

SomewhatGroovy

Banned
GameAddict411 said:
The issue of the LGBT community cruel treatment is a regional problem more than anything else. I grew up in the middle east and it was just as bad. Any country that adopted Sharia law will have similar treatment of LGBT people, and unfortunately these sort of things will never improve even in the distant future. We are talking about the abandonment of sharia law and getting a secular constitution that protects the rights of minorities without influence of religion. Even if this was attempted, the cultural setting is just not going to work. I would love to be proven wrong though.
Click to expand...

Yep. We are talking so much history and propaganda instilled into the hearts and minds of this region. As an Arab, I don't think LGBT will ever be generally accepted in the UAE, for example, in my lifetime.

And , I mean, you're heading for TWO weddings, OP. How you gonna bring up LGBT rights amidst all that chaos? Theyre gonna be mapping out their future and celebrating and you just gonna pull out "So about the gay community..." In middle of conversation?
 
B

bionic77

Member
How many countries as poor as Pakistan have a good track record with minorities and LGBT?

This is in no way an excuse for the horrible way this country is treating its minorities. I am just curious as to the relationship between civil rights, open societies and the overall wealth of the country. I am skeptical that you can make any real improvements without first correcting a lot of other problems with the country.
 
M

Madness

Member
Frankly, it's about high time that the government made homosexuality, gay marriage, and being LGBT legal in Pakistan. 
Click to expand...

They can't even protect non-Muslims in Pakistan to the point where 98% of the country is now Islamic, what makes you think they will make being LGBT legal? Say what you want, but as long as Saudi Arabia financing and thoughts dominate Pakistan, nothing is changing. In fact, it is going to get much worse, especially with a Chinese government who doesn't care and a US one who is actually banning transgender troops and won't care either. I get you want change and expect it but please don't be naive. Pakistan is in peril of being taken over by hardliners Why? The entire northen Balochistan areas are overrun by Afghanistani fighters fleeing Afghanistan. They have spent their entire time focusing on the Indian threat to the South they have missed the threat to the North. Terrorists can now openly strike Pakistani schools, military bases etc.

Nowadays, Pakistan is seeing a two fold exodus. One is educated and skilled workers immigrating abroad to placed like Australia, the UK, US and Canada. The other is unskilled exodus to UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc. The people there bring back even more hardline customs. Have you noticed yourself the rise of the Burqa and Niqab for women over the Shalwar Kameez? The rise of Wahabbist style of thought and customs? The rise in middle eastern arab customs and not South Asian Indian/Pakistani centuries developed customs and culture? It is what it is though. Maybe things will change, but these days not as certain.
 
K

keuja

Member
bionic77 said:
How many countries as poor as Pakistan have a good track record with minorities and LGBT?

This is in no way an excuse for the horrible way this country is treating its minorities. I am just curious as to the relationship between civil rights, open societies and the overall wealth of the country. I am skeptical that you can make any real improvements without first correcting a lot of other problems with the country.
Click to expand...

I don't know about as poor as Pakistan but most people in the non Muslims countries in Asia generally tolerate it. At least you're not risking death by being gay or defending the LGBT community.
 
B

bionic77

Member
keuja said:
I don't know about as poor as Pakistan but most people in the non Muslims countries in Asia generally tolerate it. At least you're not risking death by being gay or defending the LGBT community.
Click to expand...
I feel most of the countries you are thinking of are far more wealthy than Pakistan.

I really don't know the answer to this. I was throwing it out there that the intolerance and extreme poverty are probably closely related.
 
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