So its fair game for the police to blow away anyone that may do something unusual? Old and confused, blow them away. Deaf, blow them away. Having a bad day and are pissed and don't do exactly what told the moment you are told, blow them away. Having been blown the fuck away, laying in the dirt bleeding, in complete shock ears ringing can't hear shit trying to cover the hole the police just blew in your body, blow him away again.
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Video shows cops fatally shooting Calif. teen on ground
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So its fair game for the police to blow away anyone that may do something unusual? Old and confused, blow them away. Deaf, blow them away. Having a bad day and are pissed and don't do exactly what told the moment you are told, blow them away. Having been blown the fuck away, laying in the dirt bleeding, in complete shock ears ringing can't hear shit trying to cover the hole the police just blew in your body, blow him away again.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
He's on the ground basically incapacitated, and the instincts of these brave men is to stay back and pull that trigger a few more times. Bravo. Job well done.
They had more than one option here, but they chose the cowardly one. I should go watch some videos of decent police handling far more active, and dangerous situations without filling someone full of bullets. Restore some faith.
Mackenzie 92
Member
I live here. What happened was, there were reports of a man walking down the street with a rifle. Cops respond to the area and see him speeding away, so they gave chase and he didn't pull over for almost a mile. Not sure what he was thinking, but he actually hadn't done anything or committed a crime.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
That's the job..
Dude showed that he was unwilling to comply, and willingly put himself in risk of being shot. Who cares how the cop pulled up, it's irrelevant. Pulling up like that had no correlation to dude pretending he has something in his hidden hand. They were called to the scene about an armed man. Simple explanation as to why you may have your gun out and ready.
These are humans, not robots, situations like this happen quickly.
Listen to this guy, and hear his input on this type of situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g
They can defend themselves from people with guns better than they can prevent themselves from being injured by vehicles.
Mackenzie 92
Member
Body cam video is here if you haven't seen it. I think the first 2 shots were probably justified. And I hate to say it, but I feel like if he was black the officers would have shot him at least 30 seconds sooner, he actually had to taunt them quite a bit to get shot.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Or not though. Assuming this is ignorant, considering the only real study we have on this says the opposite.
When that "unusual" thing is miming having a weapon? Yes. Want the cops to stop shooting people? Get rid of the guns. Until you do that, their behavior is completely rational.
Taken together, the 3 recent studies suggest there's an overall issue w/ police deliberately escalating force used against minorities, which results in the skewed ratio of unjustified/unarmed shootings as a symptom of that larger issue, not of an issue w/ police decision-making with lethal force in general. (as those high-profile cases are a fraction of the overall shootings)
Or maybe the police need to do the job and take a little risk. How about you have to actually see a gun. They talk shit about how they risk their lives everyday and that's the job. If that's the job them time to start doing it and actually take some calculated risk. Can't or are not willing to take that risk don't be a cop.
If fire fighters showed up and said fuck that the building might be on fire we are not dealing with that shit. People would say what the fuck, but its completely ok for a cop in the US to pull up and blow someone away and say well he might have had a gun.
I thought the thing the cop was holding while driving was a radio, watched on mobile, it was his gun? The fuck.
Also, my opinion, more justified than any of the other recent shootings. But not justified in that they just facilitated this guy's suicide. The way he was smiling before they shot him, like it was game, ugh. Get people help, don't fucking kill them.
Cops will definitely walk for this one, as it can be said that he acted armed and they feared for their lives.
Also, my opinion, more justified than any of the other recent shootings. But not justified in that they just facilitated this guy's suicide. The way he was smiling before they shot him, like it was game, ugh. Get people help, don't fucking kill them.
Cops will definitely walk for this one, as it can be said that he acted armed and they feared for their lives.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Oh of course. Every cop is a racist. I hate to say it, but I feel like if he was black the Cop would have just activated his auto-aim hacks and would have shot him from 10 miles away while he was still in the station. Why take chances?
I do think the situation when he is standing and not cooperating is a tough situation. I definitely think the cops were quick to fire, but I'll agree that it is a lot easier for me to judge them behind a computer than them in the heat of the moment. I'll concede that to an extent. But shooting him when he was on the ground and barely moving is completely indefensible. I don't care if it is adrenaline or whatever. That should not happen or be acceptable of a police officer.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I agree
Mackenzie 92
Member
No, it was not my intent to imply all officers are racist.
Just basing my opinion on other videos I've seen, including Tamir Rice, contrasted with videos like this incident and others like these. I was just a little dumbfounded at how much time they actually gave Noble before firing, seemed like they showed restraint and I actually commend them for it. However I still feel the 3rd and 4th shots were not justified.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I think it's because they think he may have had a gun.
LifEndz
Member
Yup. It's why I believe cops should make much more than they do, but we need higher standards both for prospective and current officers. The guy wasn't compliant, but there's gotta be some exit ramps before 2 gun shots and 2 more when he's on the ground.
Completely off topic, but someone should make a thread about this shooting (I would but I can't make threads yet):
http://www.9news.com/news/local/jefferson-county-deputy-cleared-in-aurora-shooting/273066018
Cop was cleared cause he was shot, but in a one in a billion chance, lived because one of his bullets traveled down the barrel of the suspects gun and lodged there. A great response to the 'shoot the gun out of their hands' folks ha.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/jefferson-county-deputy-cleared-in-aurora-shooting/273066018
Cop was cleared cause he was shot, but in a one in a billion chance, lived because one of his bullets traveled down the barrel of the suspects gun and lodged there. A great response to the 'shoot the gun out of their hands' folks ha.
Haunted
Member
That is completely fucked up.
The natural result when you arm pretty much everyone in your country. Why the NRA hasn't been identified by American citizens as the core problem behind the US' third world rate of gun deaths and violence decades ago, I'll never understand.
edit: then again, I have it easy seeing and talking about this from outside the bubble. Things often appear to be much clearer if one is not directly involved or affected.
The natural result when you arm pretty much everyone in your country. Why the NRA hasn't been identified by American citizens as the core problem behind the US' third world rate of gun deaths and violence decades ago, I'll never understand.
edit: then again, I have it easy seeing and talking about this from outside the bubble. Things often appear to be much clearer if one is not directly involved or affected.
Spring-Loaded
Member
To distract from the shooting this thread is about?
You see the videos of .00001% of cops. What about the remaining % that are actually useful to our society?
Let's not pretend that a police officer's job is that simple or binary. There are certainly incidents where a police officer is justified to fire at an unarmed civilian. There are absolutely incidents where a police officer is not justified to fire at an unarmed citizen. I don't think it does any good to have two sides where one is trying to exonerate police officers in all incidents and another side trying to condemn police officers in all incidents.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
The .00001% are the ones that make the media money via racial division narratives.
Then you have the rest, like this guy:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.stalien/posts/911372818974402
Erm, no, I just thought it was an interesting story but I can't make threads. I already said I thought this shooting was fucked up
I don't know how that would distract from this story, since the shootings aren't similar at all?
Its absurd to me that we don't have better forms of non-lethal restraint available. Tasers or whatnot. I mean this kid in San Jose last week had a gun:
http://abc7news.com/news/family-questioning-police-tactics-in-fatal-shooting-san-jose/1414809/
and was suicidal. He pointed it at the cops even. He did everything to get himself shot. But it still seems like their should have been some non-lethal way to bring him down.
http://abc7news.com/news/family-questioning-police-tactics-in-fatal-shooting-san-jose/1414809/
and was suicidal. He pointed it at the cops even. He did everything to get himself shot. But it still seems like their should have been some non-lethal way to bring him down.
There are about 1.1 million cops in America. And 0.00001% of 1.1 million cops would give us 0.11 videos. I think you're exaggerating by a several orders of magnitude, which is rather bad.
I get that, but he didn't have it out. When you pepper spray someone, their temporarily incapacitated which would give them an opportunity to tackle him. In the event that he still reaches for his gun, or pulls his gun out, you still have the option to shoot.
I'm specifically talking about a situation where there are 3 or more cops per suspect. I wouldn't expect a cop to try this 1 on 1.
sindbadthesailor
Member
How to commit murder and get away with it?
Become a cop.
Become a cop.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Problem here is now you have an officer actively trying to tackle the guy. Not a safe target to aim at to say the least.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Suggesting pepper spray in this instance is just stupid. You have obviously never used pepper spray. However, I do agree that a less than lethal option could have been applied in this exact scenario. A pepper ball gun might have worked though, or bean bag rounds.
Once the suspect walked away, turned around, and started walking towards the officers, IMMEDIATELY start popping him with less lethals and see what happens. There is still a good amount of standoff distance at this point. Maybe he could have been disabled at that point. Obviously, if this failed and the suspect continues to close the distance, fire lethals.
Btw, tackling an armed suspect is extremely dangerous and a fantastic way to get yourself killed. The officers in the Alton Sterling case put huge risk onto themselves by rolling on the ground with an armed felon.
scoobidoo112
Member
How many of them have been willing to stand up to the corrupt, the murderers and the psycho's? Oh, wait, Blue Wall of fucking nobody. Or is protecting the corrupt, the murderers and the psycho's okay as long as they don't act like that themselves? Cause in my book those who are silent belong in the 'bad cop' category too.
Im sorry but I stand firmly by that. They have tasers, batons, and mace.
The job they signed up for is to serve and protect.
They are to be held at a higher standard.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
I think the point flew wayyy over your head. Doesn't surprise me one bit.
I've seen plenty of people get pepper sprayed. They walk around real slowly with their heads tilted down and their eyes closed. They're blinded and slowed down for at least 3-5 minutes.
kingwingin
Member
I think your math is bad
Gordon Shumway
Banned
...Enough of these. I'm out.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
If a man was planning on shooting, and gets pepper sprayed, I wouldn't bet on him tilting his head down and slowly walking about for any amount of time. I could see him, alternatively, raising his arm and blindly shooting like a wild person.
.00001% of 1,100,000
is
1,100,000 x .0000001
Spring-Loaded
Member
What if he has no gun?
1% of 1,100,000 is 11,000.
0.1% is 1/10 of 1%
0.01% is 1/100 of 1%
0.001% is 1/1000 of 1%
0.0001% is 1/10000 of 1%
0.00001% is 1/100000 of 1%
11,000/100,000 = 0.11
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Then you bet your life, rolled the dice, and won.
From the bodycam footage... I mean, jesus. Yeah I can see people being like, well he didnt do exactly waht the cops said! But all I can see is cops using shooting someone dead as their only tool to deal with slow moving uncertainty. They should have had so many options to deal with this without someone dying, ESPECIALLY once he was already shot twice and on the ground. They had SO many options at that point, but because they're allowed to shoot and kill, and that's their obviously easiest option, they're going to take it. That's what I'd consider an institutional problem. It's a built-in problem and it needs to be corrected.
Even beyond that, they have their words. Trying to talk to someone and get them to respond would go a long way if they're not responding to simple commands. Trying to assess the person's mental capacities and level of distress would be a huge factor in trying to resolve this event without death.
It wasn't even until having already shot him four times that they varied their words, only by adding, or begging 'please' which was more out of the officer's emotional distress and not knowing what else to say, not any sort of training of knowing how to deal with someone in this situation outside of guns. That's 100% a problem.
Even beyond that, they have their words. Trying to talk to someone and get them to respond would go a long way if they're not responding to simple commands. Trying to assess the person's mental capacities and level of distress would be a huge factor in trying to resolve this event without death.
It wasn't even until having already shot him four times that they varied their words, only by adding, or begging 'please' which was more out of the officer's emotional distress and not knowing what else to say, not any sort of training of knowing how to deal with someone in this situation outside of guns. That's 100% a problem.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Read the first sentence of my post that you quoted. Suggesting pepper spray in this instance is just as laughable as what slapnuts posted earlier about "taser, baton, mace...held to higher standard LULZ!"
scoobidoo112
Member
Thinking that someone may have a gun, even though said person does not have a gun, gives a cop no right to execute someone on sight. The fact that you think force was justified at all stuns me. There was no gun.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Yep. Ban guns - for real and with sever repercussions for anyone who breaks anti gun laws - and this problem would go away. But there's far too much support for the right to bear arms, there are fare too many deadly weapons in circulation, and so this problem will never be solved.
1) Mace/pepper spray doesn't incapacitate people. It temporarily blurs their vision and hurts like a mfer. But you can still see and attack people. I've been trained to fight and shoot while pepper sprayed. When the adrenaline is pumping, you can fight paint. It's after the fact that you cry and yell like a kid.
2) It can take up to 2 minutes for it to react. It's not instantaneous. Most of the time people get hit, they react instinctively and attempt to avoid the direct spray by closing their eyes and turning their head down. It does not mean that it's working.
3) It doesn't affect all humans. I've seen people take pepper spray directly to the eyes and not feel anything.
4) The weather conditions have to be perfect for it to be utilized in the field. If it's raining, or the wind is blowing towards you, you should not use it. Otherwise you end up hitting your fellow officers and not the offender.
5) An officer can fail to strike the suspect with it. You have to be close and attempt to hit a small target, the eyes/forehead. It comes out of a little container in a liquid stream that can be straight or in a downward trajectory. Think of those cheap water pistols you could buy when you were little.
6) You don't use less lethal for potentially lethal situations. Less lethal can fail and if the threat is real, you can suffer grave injury or death. Less lethal can only be used if the conditions are right where no officer or pedestrian will be hurt if it fails and the threat was legit.
7) Tackling is a good way to get yourself killed or force yourself into a fight for your life situation where 1 of you will end up dead. See Alton Sterling.
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