Miles Quaritch
Member
I have to wonder how your opinion of the video footage differs so much with reality.
He's the primary aggressor, he started something...
Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar
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I have to wonder how your opinion of the video footage differs so much with reality.
He's the primary aggressor, he started something...
BronzeWolf
Banned
Your logic is flawed. If I rise a bat to your face and you kick me in the nuts, who was the primary aggressor? This is not a game of "whose skin first touched the other".
Also this.does.not.make.your.opinion.more.valid.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Nope. She puts her hands on him first and then raises her hand as you would when you're about to punch someone.
I didn't say there shouldn't be legal repercussions or that the man shouldn't hold them back until they can be restrained and the cops come.
But her knee hit him first
FreddieQuell
Member
She started the whole confrontation by sliding up to the bar just before him and not letting him by.
she was drunkenly flailing at him and I bet on Saturday afternoons she's sitting on her couch watching Maury eating potato chips.
He viciously punched her with the full force of a D1 athlete who lifts 300 lb weights on his Saturdays.
People thinking this a 100% equivalent situation are silly.
both are wrong. D1 athelete should know better to not use a full force punch on a drunk woman at a bar.
He viciously punched her with the full force of a D1 athlete who lifts 300 lb weights on his Saturdays.
People thinking this a 100% equivalent situation are silly.
both are wrong. D1 athelete should know better to not use a full force punch on a drunk woman at a bar.
AbsolutBro
Member
To me it looks like he was already there. He was standing behind the woman on the leftish side of the screen, then the blond lady pushes in behind him.
But nah, gotta white knight for the poor defenseless girl.
That's not the confrontation, the confrontation is when she turns with her fist raised and her arm on him. Her getting to the bar before him is just bar crowds being bar crowds.
Miles Quaritch
Member
She also turned to face him in an aggressive manner with fist clenched, but he clearly started it..
American Eskimo
Banned
Has the bar been shut down for illegally allowing children in?
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
He shouldn't have hit her, but if she provoked it then that's her own fault that she got decked. This whole "men shouldn't hit women" thing has some ground to it (considering that if you're a male, you're likely twice the size of a woman and), but that fact that it gets drilled into guys heads so much leaves a lot women feeling like they're untouchable and they can push a guy's buttons as much as they want to and say whatever they want to say with no repercussions.
He should have held back considering he had so much to lose and virtually nothing to gain from hitting her but satisfaction, but she shouldn't have (allegedly?) called him the N word and put her hands on him first. Don't hit a man if you don't want to get hit like one.
He should have held back considering he had so much to lose and virtually nothing to gain from hitting her but satisfaction, but she shouldn't have (allegedly?) called him the N word and put her hands on him first. Don't hit a man if you don't want to get hit like one.
I'm watching the same video. He is the aggressor. He put his hand on her first. It doesn't matter what she said to him. You don't put your hands on someone like that.
FreddieQuell
Member
If she would have just let him by (to the open spot at the bar to the left of her) they would have both gotten their drinks and that would be that. So it sounds to me like that was the confrontation.
Moff
Member
it's offscreen but the jerky way she moves her left arm as he grabs her right arm (which is on screen) makes it clear that he is already holding her left arm and they are moving forward and backward. it's in the second gif in the op.
AbsolutBro
Member
It really, really doesn't. No one should be allowed to beat on someone just because the person getting beat is a dude.
Miles Quaritch
Member
He didn't though.
Unless you're counting his accidentally pushing her as him putting his hands on her first?
electroshockwave
Member
Like what? Restraining her fist or are you referring to something else?
Apples to oranges scenarios. raising your hand doesn't justify someone grabbing it. You are implying intent when you can't.
Exactly what I'm referring to. It isn't justified no matter how you slice it
BronzeWolf
Banned
So it's offscreen but it is also clear?
If so, we are now talking differences in perception. I would rather stay with what is clear AND SHOWN in the video
She raised her fist to his face level. What do you think a raised fist means? Was she doing an impromptu communist rally? What is the difference between a raised fist and a readied bat?
Watch the video, it's her arm on his chest pushing him back. Also, if it's off-screen, it's not "clear".
I thought this at first as well but when I really thought about it, she was being an aggressive and physically violent asshole which convinced him he needed to grab her arm. He doesn't actually do anything but try to restrain her until she hits him.
Shuggananas
Banned
The mental gymnastics are strong with this thread
BigGreenMat
Member
I feel bad for the guy. The unfortunate truth is regardless of facts he will be the one hurt by any sort of altercation. I hope the charges are dropped.
He could also walk away
He pushed against her then grabbed her arm and pushed her. He started the physical aggression.
BronzeWolf
Banned
And the point is? She could have as easily not raised her fist. There is no would've could've should've. There is only what appears in the video
Shoving in a tightly packed bar. Is that unusual or socially unacceptable?
And what happens is he grabs her and physically assaults her first.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Never said that. I'm saying if you're a guy, you should do whatever you can to avoid hitting the opposite sex because it's likely that you're going to be the one facing most of the consequences after doing so. Also, it's likely that you're significantly stronger than the woman in the situation, so if there's a possibility you can avoid the situation, then you should take that opportunity since you probably can afford to.
That being said, I don't judge guys that hit back when they were provoked. Like I said, a lot of women feel like they're untouchable because of the "guys shouldn't hit girls" thing, so those women I really don't feel sorry for.
BadMediaKarma
Banned
You can't walk away when someone has their fist raised to your face. Just like if she had a weapon hes not just gonna turn around and leave.
Once again this is a college bar. Some let 18 year old in plus dude plays on the football team that help make your bar money.
I swear dudes dont go outside on gaf
Yes! And that's obviously what he should have done given his circumstances and who this no-name girl was... but he didn't just cold clock a girl out of the blue. She initiated the altercation and is, in my opinion, the bigger asshole of the two.
BronzeWolf
Banned
You are now changing the goalposts. Yes he hit her. But not out of the blue.
No no no, he grabs her to stop her from assaulting him. She then punches him.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Are you serious right now?
What?
What video are you watching where he's the aggressor?
This feels like bizarro world...
No, I've been consistent every post I've made. He put his hand on her first.
You seriously need your eyes checked.
As much as I'm a champion of women's rights and a progressive and free society, I think many people are blinded in this specific regard because what they see is a woman getting punched by a big dude and that automatically puts him in the wrong. Then they create a narrative around that "fact" to match.
If you take each action step by step you realize that she was the aggressor in this altercation. Does that mean he needed to hit her? Of course not, physical violence is rarely required, but she sure made it seem necessary to him.
FreddieQuell
Member
So he thought he was going to get hit and grabbed her arm. What are his options there that you would be okay with? Waiting to get hit and then grabbing her arm to stop more punches? Quickly slipping away before getting punched?
I just don't see the issue with grabbing the arm of an agressor that clearly looks like they are going to punch you.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Grabbing an arm that is in a punching position aimed at you, isn't assault. It's self defense. What do you want him to do at that exact moment?
He's stuck there with all those people around. She is about to punch him.
You say let her punch him?
She put her hands on him first. You need to watch the video - not the .gifs.
He tries to get into the bar. He puts his hand on the open space (probably to claim a spot) and there is some contact with the white girl and the other girl leaving the bar. It's really crowded, so this type of contact is expected.
Girl gets offended by this, and moves over to the left a little bit to get into his way. It kinda looks like she throws a hip/butt at him a bit. That's where the confrontation starts. She turns around, puts her left hand on his chest and raises her right hand in a fist. He restrains her and pushed her back. She knees him or kicks him, then punches. There is some other chick off screen also throwing her hands at him.
He punches her once and leaves. She has a bloody nose (any other damage?). She leave the bar with friends.
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I don't think he used excessive force. IMO not sure why the authorities had to get involved in this one, but OK. I can understand his school punishing him (he is underage, at a bar, getting in fights) but if I were on the jury I would not think he should get any legal punishment.
He tries to get into the bar. He puts his hand on the open space (probably to claim a spot) and there is some contact with the white girl and the other girl leaving the bar. It's really crowded, so this type of contact is expected.
Girl gets offended by this, and moves over to the left a little bit to get into his way. It kinda looks like she throws a hip/butt at him a bit. That's where the confrontation starts. She turns around, puts her left hand on his chest and raises her right hand in a fist. He restrains her and pushed her back. She knees him or kicks him, then punches. There is some other chick off screen also throwing her hands at him.
He punches her once and leaves. She has a bloody nose (any other damage?). She leave the bar with friends.
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I don't think he used excessive force. IMO not sure why the authorities had to get involved in this one, but OK. I can understand his school punishing him (he is underage, at a bar, getting in fights) but if I were on the jury I would not think he should get any legal punishment.
BronzeWolf
Banned
I asked you what the point of arguing that he is restraining her is, when she is clearly meaning aggression by raising her fist.
Do you not see where he grabs her arm and pushes her?
Domcorleone
Member
You don't turn your back on someone that has their fist cocked. You don't know if they will punch you when you are walking away. It's common sense. He grabbed her arm to stop her from trying to hit him. Go raise your fist in front of a strangers face, see what happens and good luck.
Arondight
Member
No, again, the first contact is when she uses her left arm to physically block him and to push him while at the same time raising her fists and leaning towards him at the 15-17 second mark.
Nothing before this stage has he done anything to instigate such threat.
Shuggananas
Banned
Yes and then walk away and she shouldn't be charged too.
Man this thread is going places.
no, grabbing an arm that is about to hit you is self defense and not assault
How many people posting here have actually been to a crowded bar before?
If someone raises a fist to hit you - threatening you with violence - restraining them is exactly what you should do.
It's not like he was free to move away. They were restricted by the crowded bar.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I've never seen so many people defend a guy who threw a full force punch at a woman.
Look at the difference between her "punch" and his. He should be arrested.
Look at the difference between her "punch" and his. He should be arrested.
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