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[Xion_Stellar]

I understand why people think it's shit, but I also get why Nintendo might take this approach. Gaming communities are not going to police themselves, and don't really give a rip about kids.

It's nobody's job to police the gaming activities and habits of kids that responsibility belongs to the parents and Nintendo compromising on basic system features because they decided to "police" their young players isn't the correct solution to this sort of concern in my opinion.

 

[rSpooky]

You have to wonder though...did they even use any focus groups for this thing? .

 

[Omegasquash]

My usual crew all sit close enough to their PC that they can just use a wireless headset and one of the gajillion chat options out there.

Shit, right now, we all use the gold PS headset when we're playing pretty much anything.

I'm still going to give Nintendo time on this. I'm still in the decision making process, and I haven't seen any info on virtual console. I was happy to see more info about the console last week, but there are still lots of questions that I'd need answers to in order to make my decision.

 

[Arc]

Nintendo is simply not equipped to compete in the modern market. They've shown it time and time again.

 

[Boss Man]

Please do not disparage the mighty Japanese race with your anti-Nintendo sentiments.

 

[Schnozberry]

I don't think your anecdotal friends/neighbors represent any kind of meaningful majority. It's not like kids in 2017 don't have access to phones and tablets. I don't doubt that this may have been a part of nintendo's thought process on this decision, but it's because they have a tendency to be incredibly out of touch with certain aspects of the consumer market.

I agree that Nintendo doesn't make much of an attempt to appeal to the enthusiast gamer population.

Go talk to some parents of young children though. Online gaming is a serious worry among pretty much everyone. I can only speak from my own experiences. I feel much better about letting my kid play Splatoon 2 knowing she won't have to listen to a bunch of edgy 13 year olds making horrible comments about her appearance and wrecking her self esteem.

 

[Schnozberry]

Excuse me?

You openly asked if Japan is capable of producing competent software engineers. Maybe you meant it some other way but that's how it came across to me.

 

[azyless]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't make much of an attempt to appeal to the enthusiast gamer population.

Go talk to some parents of young children though. Online gaming is a serious worry among pretty much everyone. I can only speak from my own experiences. I feel much better about letting my kid play Splatoon 2 knowing she won't have to listen to a bunch of edgy 13 year olds making horrible comments about her appearance and wrecking her self esteem.

I know this is gonna sound absolutely crazy but hear me out for a sec :
Parental. Controls.

 

[Schnozberry]

It's nobody's job to police the gaming activities and habits of kids that responsibility belongs to the parents and Nintendo compromising on basic system features because they decided to "police" their young players isn't the correct solution to this sort of concern in my opinion.

It's Nintendo's job because they are the only gaming company that makes an attempt to bring kids into the market for dedicated gaming machines.

 

[DrROBschiz]

You openly asked if Japan is capable of producing competent software engineers. Maybe you meant it some other way but that's how it came across to me.

No Im saying Nintendo refuses to Hire them

And geez this past couple generations cements that

I thought outsourcing to DeNA was going to have us see a leap on the OS side of things but.... now Im not so sure

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't make much of an attempt to appeal to the enthusiast gamer population.

Go talk to some parents of young children though. Online gaming is a serious worry among pretty much everyone. I can only speak from my own experiences. I feel much better about letting my kid play Splatoon 2 knowing she won't have to listen to a bunch of edgy 13 year olds making horrible comments about her appearance and wrecking her self esteem.

Considering how big online games (minecraft ring a bell?) are with young kids, and how more and more young kids are receiving online enabled tablets and phones, I'd say that the parents with those kinds of fears still, in 2017, are in a very small minority, and it certainly doesn't appear to effect their shopping habits. The online cat is out of the bag. It's 2017. Tweens have Snapchat and Instagram accounts and you are still trying to push the "internet boogeyman angle" like its 2002? Like I said, it's all spin from Nintendo and their fans trying to put the best possible face on what is likely purely a technical issue.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I actually agree, but I'm also the parent of a 6 year old. I hear my friends/neighbors say all the time that they won't buy games consoles because of the online communities. Gating access behind an app created a buffer that is major peace of mind for parents, and a minor inconvenience for others.

I understand why people think it's shit, but I also get why Nintendo might take this approach. Gaming communities are not going to police themselves, and don't really give a rip about kids.

I'm a parent too so I definitely advocate strong parental controls and I just think you can restrict voice chat on the system level. So that parents of kid gamers don't have to worry about voice chat and still have the feature for the rest of us.

Like two factor authentication to join voice chat as an option via a mobile app would be great:

[Your Nintendo Online ID would like to connect to voice chat: Allow?]

But just pushing chat through the phone itself for primary communication? Nah. Not feeling that one bit.

Considering how big online games (minecraft ring a bell?) are with young kids, and how more and more young kids are receiving online enabled tablets and phones, I'd say that the parents with those kinds of fears still, in 2017, are in a very small minority, and it certainly doesn't appear to effect their shopping habits. The online cat is out of the bag. It's 2017. Tweens have Snapchat and Instagram accounts and you are still trying to push the "internet boogeyman angle" like its 2002? Like I said, it's all spin from Nintendo and their fans trying to put the best possible face on what is likely purely a technical issue.

Just add the ability for the parent to disable the shit in settings. One and done. How is that complicated in 2017? Like I really don't understand. It don't have to be one or the other.

 

[Schnozberry]

I know this is gonna sound absolutely crazy but hear me out for a sec :
Parental. Controls.

They exist for just about every consumer electronics device, but somehow kids manage to circumvent them. My kid saw my wife type in the PIN for her iPad in the reflection in the window. Clever.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

They exist for just about every consumer electronics device, but somehow kids manage to circumvent them. My kid saw my wife type in the PIN for her iPad in the reflection in the window. Clever.

Change the pin, problem solved.

Nintendo is simply not equipped to compete in the modern market. They've shown it time and time again.

Unfortunately this. I just don't understand how they don't get it. Being different just to be different leads to cumbersome nonsense like this.

Which leads to Nintendo's consoles being niche secondary/tertiary devices behind a pc/xbox/ps4. You get one for Nintendo games, play them and then leave the console to collect dust then we wonder why third party support remains slim to nil.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Also, much like the notifications thing Marc was pushing last page, having a separate app that allows parents to control their kids' Switch via their cel phones is a nice idea, but I don't see how that has to make it the ONLY idea. Trying to go from that to making things like voice chat, friends lists and party options ONLY available via an app is a ridiculous stretch. Seriously you guys are doing Nintendo PR at this point.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Also, much like the notifications thing Marc was pushing last page, having a separate app that allows parents to control their kids' Switch via their cel phones is a nice idea, but I don't see how that has to make it the ONLY idea. Trying to go from that to making things like voice chat, friends lists and party options ONLY available via an app is a ridiculous stretch. Seriously you guys are doing Nintendo PR at this point.

I completely agree. Ain't no way to spin this into a positive for the users, lmao...

 

[DrROBschiz]

So now we wait

We honestly need clarification on what the system can and cant do

- There is some back and forth on the Audio port and whether it supports an inline mic or not...

- Bluetooth 4.1 is confirmed but no idea if they will let us connect a wireless headset

- Pro Contoller and Joycon Grip do NOT have an audio jack... which is frustrating for audiophiles and voice chatters alike

And Reggie spinning the web didnt help.... Its looking like confirmed bad news for those of use who wanted Nintendo to join the built in Party Chat wagon

 

[azyless]

They exist for just about every consumer electronics device, but somehow kids manage to circumvent them. My kid saw my wife type in the PIN for her iPad in the reflection in the window. Clever.

No offense but at that point what does that have to with Nintendo ? If you leave the password on a post-it on the TV it also won't work, no shit. I doubt any random kid could just "circumvent" a password-protected system.

- There is some back and forth on the Audio port and whether it supports an inline mic or not...

It's on the Switch spec sheet so the console itself does.

 

[tkscz]

The only advantage I can think of is that this frees up RAM over in system hubs. Other than that, not sure why not just do it in system.

 

[Schnozberry]

Considering how big online games (minecraft ring a bell?) are with young kids, and how more and more young kids are receiving online enabled tablets and phones, I'd say that the parents with those kinds of fears still, in 2017, are in a very small minority, and it certainly doesn't appear to effect their shopping habits. The online cat is out of the bag. It's 2017. Tweens have Snapchat and Instagram accounts and you are still trying to push the "internet boogeyman angle" like its 2002? Like I said, it's all spin from Nintendo and their fans trying to put the best possible face on what is likely purely a technical issue.

Very doubtful this is a technical issue. It's a deliberate decision.

 

[marc^o^]

Also, much like the notifications thing Marc was pushing last page, having a separate app that allows parents to control their kids' Switch via their cel phones is a nice idea, but I don't see how that has to make it the ONLY idea. Trying to go from that to making things like voice chat, friends lists and party options ONLY available via an app is a ridiculous stretch. Seriously you guys are doing Nintendo PR at this point.

I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm cautiously optimistic while waiting for more informations. I envision something that wouldn't be as bad as it seems, but it remains to be seen.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

It's Nintendo's job because they are the only gaming company that makes an attempt to bring kids into the market for dedicated gaming machines.

They already showed that you can control the communication settings using the Parental Controls App so there was no need to go a step further an compromise Voice Chat integration into the system just to possibly alienate nearly 99% of their Wii U audience that don't fall under the category of children.

Source: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=884312

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Very doubtful this is a technical issue. It's a deliberate decision.

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

 

[7roject28]

This makes sense because of it's portability aspect and no 4g on it. If it had 4g on it just for chat then people will complain you have to pay monthly for that and the cost of the Switch being more.

 

[qko]

So wait is it an app that cost something like $2.99 in addition to the online fee? That's what the wording of the title makes it sound like.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This makes sense because of it's portability aspect and no 4g on it. If it had 4g on it just for chat then people will complain you have to pay monthly for that and the cost of the Switch being more.

this makes no sense. If you are playing online somewhere (a train, a car, a park) this means you are on some kind of wifi connection. Why would you need 4G? What scenario exists where your Switch is not connected to the internet but you need to chat with friends?

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

Cmon now

Exhibit A

The Playstation Vita

 

[Schnozberry]

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

Post firmware 3.50, the Vita managed to fit the OS and all the PSN features into 128MB of RAM. The Switch will have significantly more than that to work with.

 

[azyless]

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

Voice chat was possible on the Playstation 2 in 2001, on a console that had like 50MB of RAM. Even Xbox 360 had only 512MB.

This makes sense because of it's portability aspect and no 4g on it. If it had 4g on it just for chat then people will complain you have to pay monthly for that and the cost of the Switch being more.

In what real life situation would you need voice chat where there's no Wifi available. And like, data doesn't just magically go away because you offload it to another device ? What am I reading.

 

[BigTuna109]

Nintendo, you already killed my hype. You can stop shooting it. It's dead.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Cmon now

Exhibit A

The Playstation Vita

I'm not saying it's not possible, or defending it, I'm saying Nintendo likely saw that having these functions would have X% effect on the OS, battery life and CPU and decided to go with an alternative. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than "we have to protect the 2% of parents who are still scared of the internet, so let's inconvenience the other 98% of our audience" or "lol bulky headsets amirite?"

It's a dumb decision on their part but it's a decision I could see them making.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

I call bullshit unless you have a source to back that up with.

 

[Ricky 7]

This sounds like a joke.

 

[KingSnake]

Also, much like the notifications thing Marc was pushing last page, having a separate app that allows parents to control their kids' Switch via their cel phones is a nice idea, but I don't see how that has to make it the ONLY idea. Trying to go from that to making things like voice chat, friends lists and party options ONLY available via an app is a ridiculous stretch. Seriously you guys are doing Nintendo PR at this point.

Nintendo is treating Switch like a router or a remote device, not like a device that has its own UI. It wouldn't shock me if for the settings you need to access it via a webpage on your PC or something.

It sounds to me that this could be the most barebone UI ever.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

If they really gonna do this they really crazy. I dont think Id do voice chat on Switch anyway, I dont even care if it was just in game but this phone business just sounds ridiculous and cubersome

 

[Schnozberry]

They already showed that you can control the communication settings using the Parental Controls App so there was no need to go a step further an compromise Voice Chat integration into the system just to possibly alienate nearly 99% of their Wii U audience that don't fall under the category of children.

Source: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=884312

Yeah, I saw that, but it seems to just disable the features system wide.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I'm not saying it's not possible, or defending it, I'm saying Nintendo likely saw that having these functions would have X% effect on the OS, battery life and CPU and decided to go with an alternative. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than "we have to protect the 2% of parents who are still scared of the internet, so let's inconvenience the other 98% of our audience" or "lol bulky headsets amirite?"

It's a dumb decision on their part but it's a decision I could see them making.

Look at you trying to correlate Nintendo decisions and sensibility together

its a.... tough road that one

 

[a916]

Rumor is that they don't have the reserved memory footprint on the console itself to run much system.level in addition to the games.

We shall see.

That sounds a lot like they didn't plan for it...

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Look at you trying to correlate Nintendo decisions and sensibility together

its a.... tough road that one

lol I won't argue with you there. It really is tough to speculate about what goes on in that bubble Nintendo operates in

 

[Schnozberry]

That sounds a lot like they didn't plan for it...

I think they just planned to offload that workload to a smart device. It serves a few masters for them.

 

[mclem]

I think you underestimate how taxing these kinds of things can be on an OS, especially on a handheld trying to run console sized games with limited battery life. All logical signs point to it having to do with this. If Nintendo could offer feature parity with things XBLA and PSN have been doing for the better part of 10 years, they would.

I'm wondering if there's one component that's simply: It's a portable device. There's no guarantee of Wifi around. 3G may well be present... but there's not a huge amount of appeal for people to get 3G SIMs for their gaming devices (how did the 3G version of the Vita do in the end in comparison to the default one?). If they integrate comms through a phone, the 4G connection *can* be guaranteed to be present.

(Which does make me wonder if they'll also include a tethering setup)

 

[nynt9]

As it is usually the case with baffling Nintendo decisions, the attempts at spinning this as "big N just looking out for you" are hilarious.

 

[Schnozberry]

I'm wondering if there's one component that's simply: It's a portable device. There's no guarantee of Wifi around. If they integrate comms through a phone, the 4G connection *can* be guaranteed to be present.

(Which does make me wonder if they'll also include a tethering setup)

Bluetooth tethering seems plausible.

 

[Mr T.]

If they really gonna do this they really crazy. I dont think Id do voice chat on Switch anyway, I dont even care if it was just in game but this phone business just sounds ridiculous and cubersome

Pretty much agree, but I gotta say it would have been nice to at least allow friend chat or party chat when playing Mario Kart or something... I could careless about chatting with randoms on Nintendo as they don't have many games that utilize online multiplayer.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Nintendo is treating Switch like a router or a remote device, not like a device that has its own UI. It wouldn't shock me if for the settings you need to access it via a webpage on your PC or something.

It sounds to me that this could be the most barebone UI ever.

Now heres where we are

It DOES have an inline mic at the audio port and Bluetooth 4.1

Do we anticipate features and functionality to be added to the OS and system over time?

On WiiU.... it took them ages just to shave a few seconds of the transition load times

They have been very deficient in the engineering and management of these types of OS level features and functions for a long time

Im actually not surprised that its barebones to avoid getting outside of their comfort zone once again.....


What can we expect from them from here on out? Apparently the DeNA partnership has only helped them develop fucking apps

 

[azyless]

I'm wondering if there's one component that's simply: It's a portable device. There's no guarantee of Wifi around. If they integrate comms through a phone, the 4G connection *can* be guaranteed to be present.

(Which does make me wonder if they'll also include a tethering setup)

First of all, 4G is far from "guaranteed to be present", and I live in a first world country. Also ignoring tethering is a thing that exists and works already.
And again, in what real life situation would you need voice chat where you don't have Wifi ?

 

[Baroquemantic]

I still don't get the argument that offloading this to a mobile app is safer for children. There are already parental controls available, so why would having these social features work through a mobile app be better than them working natively on the Switch itself?

 

[Schnozberry]

I still don't get the argument that offloading this to a mobile app is safer for children. There are already parental controls available, so why would having these features work through a mobile app be better than them working natively on the Switch itself?

Because now you can hand your kid the Switch and let them play without having to worry. Even if they manage to find a way to steal your password, they still won't be able to jump online and hear the finer details about how some 12 year old plowed their mom, or why they are a worthless.

 

[nynt9]

I still don't get the argument that offloading this to a mobile app is safer for children. There are already parental controls available, so why would having these social features work through a mobile app be better than them working natively on the Switch itself?

Shushhhh, don't ask questions and accept the PR/apologist line.

You can justify pretty much anything if you want to take a really disingenuous PR angle. There is an agenda to Nintendo making this decision. Maybe it's performance, maybe it's to proliferate their mobile app, maybe it's to differentiate themselves, maybe it's something else. But regardless, it's a stupid decision that helps them and not the end user.

 

[koss424]

Considering how big online games (minecraft ring a bell?) are with young kids, and how more and more young kids are receiving online enabled tablets and phones, I'd say that the parents with those kinds of fears still, in 2017, are in a very small minority, and it certainly doesn't appear to effect their shopping habits. The online cat is out of the bag. It's 2017. Tweens have Snapchat and Instagram accounts and you are still trying to push the "internet boogeyman angle" like its 2002? Like I said, it's all spin from Nintendo and their fans trying to put the best possible face on what is likely purely a technical issue.

I'm pretty sure parental control had a huge impact in Nintendo's decision. But in response to your other points, my kids are very connected and use social medial. I monitor their usage and there has been some issues along the way but it's teachable moments for my kids. Having said that, online gamine chat and youtube comments are still the most vile things on the internet for young kids. I feel bad for the kids in that environment who don't have their parents looking out for them because kids take their social media very seriously.