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Volgarr The Viking - "Hardcore 16bit action" (Kickstarter - Funded: $39,965)

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pa22word

Member
Holy wow did this topic explode in the hours since I last posted in it or what? To add to the difficulty discussion, I found that Shinobi 3D had a great difficulty settings style for these types of games. I think it went like this:

Beginner: Infinite lives, infinite continues, generous checkpoints

Normal: 5 lives to start, infinite continues, moderate checkpoints

Hard (classic difficulty, p. much): 3 lives to start, 3 continues, checkpoints at area changes

Very Hard: 1 live to start, 3 continues checkpoints at area changes, and changed enemy layout

All four difficulties have a suspend feature, and beating Hard unlocks a new playable character to run through the game as, and it was REALLY a new character. Think of a Vergil in DMC3 SE in terms of new character, not something like a pallet swap with different stats.


If Volgarr has a similar system I would be extremely pleased, but it appears they want to stray away from that due to bad press and reception from gamers who couldn't cut it on normal....and that makes me so sad =\
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
This is exactly what you'll get if you have infinite lives in your game, though. There's no way around it -- infinite lives, checkpoints, etc are poison.

I recommend reading this review of Super Meat Boy and this review of VVVVVV to understand why. They do not belong in the type of game you seek to make, I believe.

Also, if you're seeking to make an arcade style game in particular, I also recommend reading this to help you further understand the essence of arcade gaming.

I don't really like insomnia.ac, guy seems way too pretentious and dare I say douchy for my liking, but that's a great review of Super Meat Boy. That game never really sat right with me and I was surprised when people were calling it "one of the best platformers ever". But yeah, I never liked the "save-scumming" type design it facilitated (that a lot of other indie platformers seemed to copy).

The best types of games IMO are games that start out fairly easy, but make sure you've absolutely mastered the controls and gameplay systems if you want any hope of winning... all in a logical difficulty progression. Lots of games don't get it right at all, either with mid-game difficulty jumps and choke points, or are just easy and let you mash through the game without mastery of it.

I am very glad you guys are asking for feedback with the difficulty structure of the game... I'd prefer something similar to what people like Tain suggested - a ~45 min game with a gradual difficulty ramp, where you make slightly more progress each time you play. Though I'd probably like something a bit easier than what a lot of hardcore arcade players are looking for :p
 
I'm glad to hear you guys are developing ways to reward survival and skillful play, so players still have something to improve upon in stages they're already familiar with. That definitely adds to the longevity and appeal of the game. It looks like using a traditional life/extend method with no continues would be the easiest option to really express this aspect, but I would gladly welcome any creative alternatives.

And yeah, I'm totally fine with the game being under and hour. If it's hard enough, no reviewer will really complain when it takes them 8 or 10+ hours of playing to complete it anyway. So in a way, it'll be just as long or longer than many modern games.

Also GOOD MOVE on not having multiple difficulties or a bunch of other options to change the game. I totally understand that games try to cover their bases by having something for everyone (even when it appeals to a certain set of tastes), but in the end there's always only one "right" or default difficulty the game is designed to accommodate and the rest end up compromising the experience. Unless you guys want to design 20 different games, one covering each permutation of options. :)

This also alleviates a couple problems. When I start a game, I never know what the hell difficulty to start on since there can never be any standardized definition of easy, normal hard-- much less a way every game can design according to a definition. Now maybe with a fun, short action game it wouldn't matter as much, but it's VERY rare I play through any contemporary game more than once so the choice has to be right. I always go with normal because I assume this is the "real" difficulty the game was designed to play on. So even though I can choose, I always feel like there's a right choice versus a bunch of fake ones and it's up to me to magically know which one it is. Having no difficulty options immediately solves this problem.

Also, once the game is beaten there would be no question of one's accomplishment. One couldn't throw out the old "but did you beat it on NIGHTMARE mode?" type accusation. You could not even question yourself on this. It's a small thing, but meaningful to some people.
 
As long as getting to the end is a reward in itself and not just a time sink with unlimited attempts from mid game I think all should be well.
 
They hit the 10k mark and will probably easily pass the 8k mark wooooohoooooo - I am also hoping for a big bang payoff when the game is completed, I might be in the minority here but i would love to see some unique pickups throughout the game.


Does anyone remember the arcade game where you're some chick with a full suit of armor and if something hits you you lose a piece of armor and it slowly dwindles you down to a nude character ... lol
 
I will say I don't agree necessary with the arcade situation as it was obviously a money grab situation, but many of those arcade games have shown to be well designed games that do not require infinite retries to beat. However there is always the problem with re-playability which is a very good point. I know whenever I have beat Super Meat Boy there wont be incentive to play anymore except speed runs. I still think that the games like VVVVV and SMB require a lot of challenge even if you have infinite chances. However I accept their methods as long as the levels are short to finish and works for those type of games (much easier to do speedruns then). I will definitely support this kickstarter as I love old school games.
 

Rubikant

Member
Question for you fans of 1CC style play:

If a game of this play style did have finite lives and no continues, how many lives would you expect? More importantly, how, if any way, would you expect to get more lives? Every x number of points? Find them in the levels (and if so, could you re-find the same one over and over to essentially temporarily have infinite lives)? Some other means? What would you think of having only 1 life? Is that too harsh?

I ask because one could draw parallels between the finite lives system and this other system I've been hinting at, and can furthermore draw parallels to the way in which you would traditionally get "extra lives" and was curious if there was any kind of consensus from 1CC fans on what the preference would be.
 

Tain

Member
Question for you fans of 1CC style play:

If a game of this play style did have finite lives and no continues, how many lives would you expect? More importantly, how, if any way, would you expect to get more lives? Every x number of points? Find them in the levels (and if so, could you re-find the same one over and over to essentially temporarily have infinite lives)? Some other means? What would you think of having only 1 life? Is that too harsh?

I ask because one could draw parallels between the finite lives system and we are planning, and can furthermore draw parallels to the way in which you would traditionally get "extra lives" and was curious if there was any kind of consensus from 1CC fans on what the preference would be.

3 is the common number to start with, but there's a pretty big range when it comes to how many additional lives you can find. I'd say that, in a game like this, if we're looking at one-hit kills, maybe six lives if you find everything? Six is a pretty common number in Cave games (they generally have one discoverable 1up item and two score-based extends), but games like Gradius give you way more. Metal Slug doesn't give you any beyond the initial 3.

Typically, most arcade games avoid situations where players can get the same 1up/extend repeatedly. The only exception that comes to mind is Contra, where you can slowly milk score-based extends by timing out in the corridor sections, and I definitely consider it to be one of the game's flaws. I see it most often in 16-bit era console games. I would prefer seeing this on occasion to having infinite lives all the time, but it's not ideal to me.

Having a single life seems like something I'd avoid unless the game uses a life meter. There's a nice dynamic to having multiple lives, an incentive to do as well as you possibly can in the earlier stages so you have a better chance in the later ones.
 

Rubikant

Member
3 is the common number to start with, but there's a pretty big range when it comes to how many additional lives you can find. I'd say that, in a game like this, if we're looking at one-hit kills, maybe six lives from typical play? That's a pretty common number in Cave games (they generally have one discoverable 1up item and two score-based extends).

In Gradius, you'll wind up with a ton of extra lives (getting your first score-based extend as early as the first stage). The original Contra is even a little busted, as you can repeat those corridor hall stages and boringly milk lives from them.

Typically, in arcade games, you don't run into situations where you can get the same 1up repeatedly. The only thing like this that comes to mind is Contra, where you can slowly milk score-based extends by timing out in the corridor sections, and I definitely consider it to be one of the game's flaws.

Having a single life seems like something I'd avoid unless the game uses a life meter. There's a nice dynamic to having multiple lives, an incentive to do as well as you possibly can in the earlier stages so you have a better chance in the later ones.

That's sounds pretty inline with what I figured based on my own preferences, so thanks for verifying. Anyone have any counter opinions?

To clarify a point though, its not really 1-hit kill (unless you fall in a fire pit or infinite pit), you start with a shield which means at least 2 hits to die, and can also get the helmet which (unlike SGnG) adds an extra hit (rest of the gear power-ups do not extend number of hits to die but give other benefits), so potentially 3 hits to die with option to re-find a lost shield/helmet in a chest. Thus in a way it sort of feel like a health bar that can be lowered and replenished with an item - just a very small one and lower health also reduces available abilities.

Thus I would say if this game stuck with the finite lives model, you should have 3 lives with option to extend via points, but no way to effectively "farm" for lives. Would you concur?
 

Wallach

Member
Mostly in agreement, though I'm not as much of a fan of score-based lives only because they require a whole lot of additional work if you want to ensure there are not places to "farm" them (though a lot of people do not consider this a problem to begin with anyway). Placed pick-ups both allow you much more concrete control over how many lives a player may receive in a playthrough and create individual opportunities for interesting level design each time.
 

Rubikant

Member
Mostly in agreement, though I'm not as much of a fan of score-based lives only because they require a whole lot of additional work if you want to ensure there are not places to "farm" them (though a lot of people do not consider this a problem to begin with anyway). Placed pick-ups both allow you much more concrete control over how many lives a player may receive in a playthrough and create individual opportunities for interesting level design each time.

In that case would you want it such that once a life is picked up it can never be again, even after you die and re-spawn, so that providing a pick-up doesn't give you a temporary infinite lives situation? Or is it sufficient in your opinion to just place the life in such a way that having to re-get it every time is very risky?
 

Wallach

Member
In that case would you want it such that once a life is picked up it can never be again, even after you die and re-spawn, so that providing a pick-up doesn't give you a temporary infinite lives situation?

That would be my particular preference, yeah. Possibly the exception being if a continue is used.

Edit - I missed your edit. I think the latter is good, too. I suppose in a way it also limits you slightly in terms of the individual level design bits around the pickup. Then again maybe it's an opportunity to fit both into your game by more distinctly separating them design-wise; having ones that are repeatedly obtainable be done through metrics (in this case since you're shying away from UI where possible it would probably be time-based or reaching a certain point with a particular item) and then having others that are one-time pickups found through exploration and creative use of mechanics. That way it's intuitive as to why one method isn't repeatable and the other is.
 
A range of 3 to 6 lives would be ideal. Score-based life gains would have to be heavily tweaked, but it's either that or camp zones for new lives (though outmoding those zones after the first time you go through them is a good idea too).
 
In that case would you want it such that once a life is picked up it can never be again, even after you die and re-spawn, so that providing a pick-up doesn't give you a temporary infinite lives situation? Or is it sufficient in your opinion to just place the life in such a way that having to re-get it every time is very risky?

I like the thought of risk involved but I would not object to being only able to get them once. By giving the player a chance to survive longer but only for once. At least it gives the player more options to make the game "easier". I always found it fun to find secret lives or having to look for it.
 
I know you guys aren't discussing stretch-goals yet, but my dream stretch goal: being able to play Volgarr at my local arcade.

donate and put the arcade cabinet in one of your local places and watch everyone go nuts putting quarters in it, lol.


actually that would be pretty cool to put it in a local game shop.
 
Arcades in general could use a firm revival. The biggest audience I've seen for them in Texas are college students, and they're partly responsible for the success of Arcade UFO.
 

Ziophaelin

Member
LOL I hope that if someone spends that kind of cash on the arcade machine that they DON'T shove quarters in it.

The CD drive on the PC powering the arcade cabinet would probably not appreciate feeling violated by coin penetration.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
2 questions:

1. Your video incorporates a heavy metal theme, though the games main theme is orchestrated. What will be the games final soundtrack like? A mix of both? Or orchestra only?

2. What are your ideas on a Steam release? Something you plan?
 

Rubikant

Member
haha That was Taron, back when that game came out he decided to name is Pawn Volgarr.

Yeah my bad, I recorded a challenge run of that game where I played through it entirely solo and named my character Volgarr since I was of course working on the game at the time. Didn't think about it possibly ending up on google searches.
 

Ziophaelin

Member
2 questions:

1. Your video incorporates a heavy metal theme, though the games main theme is orchestrated. What will be the games final soundtrack like? A mix of both? Or orchestra only?

2. What are your ideas on a Steam release? Something you plan?


To #1 It is mostly orchestral with a primal feel. There is going to be little heavy metal in the game at a very particular part. We are still discussing some ideas about a few audio surprises that we would like to do (if we can manage to do them). That we aren't really ready to talk about yet.

To #2 We would love to release on Steam (if we can get on it now with the Greenlight thing), but we are 100% focused on getting the game completed right now first.
 

Rubikant

Member
Okay y'all, so our Kickstarter is going quite well, honestly better than anticipated, so we are scrambling a bit to get ready to present our big stretch goal idea. But since the discussion here helped us clarify and tweak it, I wanted to give you guys a sneak peak and see if you have any issues with it before the official reveal on the Kickstarter page.

The basic idea is to have twice as much content without extending the time for a play-through. Or another way to look at it, 2 games in 1. But without resorting to a menu option, instead we have "paths" that are chosen through player actions, with the start of the game always being the same. Kind of like Star Fox 64, but with the alternate path also having slightly different rules in addition to being a different level.

Our hope for the design is something that will appeal to both types of arcade game fans - those that are fine chugging quarters until they manage to beat it (but each level is challenging enough that they expect several tries to complete it), and those that prefer the "1-credit clear"-style of play. We've wanted to do this from the start but thought asking for the funds necessary could possibly lead to no funding at all, and we weren't sure if even fans of old arcade games would still be interested in this style of play, so for the initial pitch stuck with the "safe" route of just the straight linear game with infinite "lives". This thread helped convince me that this was a good idea and worth presenting as a stretch goal.

Here's a diagram to help illustrate the idea:

AltPathsDiagram.png


For the Kickstarter presentation we won't go into this much detail so it doesn't make the page huge, but for you guys I'm going to give all the details, almost straight out of our design document. Apologies for the length of this post.

* A straight-forward playthrough is targeted to be around the difficulty of the games we've mentioned - Rastan, Super Ghouls N' Ghosts (first loop), and Castlevania 1 (possibly slightly easier as beta testing feedback will help determine). As in the latter two, when the player dies they have to return to a checkpoint, but they never will have to start the game over unless they give up and turn the game off.

* The checkpoints are planned to be about the same as in SGnG, roughly 2 per level (one mid-way and one before the boss). Each checkpoint is marked by a special "Resurrection Statue", and you can revive at the last one you reached as many times as you want. However, each time you die you lose all treasure you gained since you reached that checkpoint (meaning you'll have to collect it again), plus a portion of any treasure you collected earlier in the level (treasure is essentially your score).

* In every level there is one special hidden chest. It is not TOO hidden, just off the beaten path, and usually found near the end of the level.

* To actually get to this special chest, the player must overcome an obstacle that can only be circumvented by using an ability available via a specific piece of gear (which ability and hence which piece of gear varies by level). This means the player must traverse at least some of the level without getting hit in order to keep the piece of gear required to get to the chest. NOTE: This is not a Metroid-style game, these chests are the ONLY time the player will be required to have certain gear to get to them, all other times the player can get to anywhere with the basic equipment Volgarr always has (sword & spear).

* The chest contains a magical item, the exact nature of which is still under discussion, but for now I'll refer to it as a "Warrior Spirit".

* If the player completes the current level after obtaining the Warrior Spirit, they will be given the option to enter the "Special Path" for the next level. If they choose not to, the Warrior Spirit is lost. This Special Path does not contain any Resurrection Statues as found in the base path - but it does contain more treasure and an alternate style of checkpoint. These levels may or may not be slightly harder than the others, but the level layouts and enemies are not the true source of the danger, this alternate checkpoint style is.

* When the player first travels from the base path to the special path, the Warrior Spirit that opened the way is joined by another one at the beginning of the level and becomes the initial level checkpoint. This checkpoint is not a Resurrection Statue, we are still working out exactly what it is, but may be related to a Valkyrie in some way. The checkpoint will have all currently available Warrior Spirits floating around it, and thus can be glanced at to see how many are left (or you can pause the game to see). This means upon first entry into this path at any point, the player will start with 2 Warrior Spirits.

* When the player dies while on any level in the special path they are revived at the last checkpoint, but one of the Warrior Spirits is used up.

* If the player dies when they have no Warrior Spirits active, they will instead revive at the Resurrection Statue found at the beginning of the equivalent level on the base path (at this point fans of the 1CC style of play may want to restart, via a convenient option available from pressing pause/menu). This would be on the 3rd death at first (first 2 use up the spirit, but then you can try again with no spirits and die one more time), giving you essentially 3 "lives" once you are on this path.

* If the player manages to complete a level on this path, they are given 1 extra Warrior Spirit by the final boss of the level, allowing them to continue to the next level on the path if they choose, or return to the next level on the base path instead (they will not get an extra Warrior Spirit at the beginning of the following special path level, however - the bonus one is only given when transitioning from the base path).

* We may also have 1 extra hidden Warrior Spirit in a special chest like in the other levels, but this depends on balance and tuning later.

* The player can carry over any extra unused Warrior Spirits as long as they stay on the Special Path, saving up from earlier levels to give them more chances in later ones. Any time they return to the base path they lose all Warrior Spirits they had up to that point, if they still had any left.

* If the player returns to the base path, either through dying too much or choosing to, they could find the special treasure chest on the level and get back to the Special Path for the following level, once again getting 2 Warrior Spirits to try the level with. Its possible to swap back and forth between the two paths as you progress through the levels this way if you desire.

* Completing a level on the Special Path also grants an Asgardian Rune (or it may be hidden in the level, not sure yet). This artifact has no function unless ALL of them are collected, meaning the player must stay on the special path starting at level 2 and all the way until the end of the path to have them all. When completing the last level, if all runes are assembled then instead of going to an ending, the player will be taken to a bonus extra end level for the final challenge.

* The game has 3 endings: The normal ending, an ending achieved by completing the last normal level on the Special Path (which doesn't matter how you got there, you could be on the base path all the way up until the second-to-last level than jump over to it), and the "secret" ending from completing the bonus extra end level.

* If the player dies after all Warrior Spirits are lost on the bonus extra end level, they are given the standard Special Path ending and the game is over.

What do you think?
 
Ooo, I like it - not many games these days have that kind of linear-branchingl-path thing going, and I've definitely never heard of one where you have limited lives that can kick you out of the special path. It rewards the player for skillful play, and gives more stuff to explore and experience without making the game too long or radically changing gameplay.

And I'm always happy when a game has multiple endings :)
 
That definitely makes things interesting and more of a challenge which is a bonus for people who want to be number 1 on the leader boards type thing, I always enjoyed the option of going a separate path if the option is given to me.


I wonder what story is like for the game...hoping the boss fights are epic and memorable encounters.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
So basically, the Border Down approach? Interesting idea... it's something that hasn't been done to death in this sort of game, which is a plus, and it does incentivize playing well. It's a good idea, provided that it doesn't stretch the budget too thin and result in stripping down the levels' artistry or reusing the same tiles ad nauseum.
 

Rubikant

Member
It's a good idea, provided that it doesn't stretch the budget too thin and result in stripping down the levels' artistry or reusing the same tiles ad nauseum.

Exactly, hence why it is what are planning to use as our big stretch goal, we didn't feel we could do it justice on the budget we would have with the base funding goal. Its up to the backers to decide if we can do this or not.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Exactly, hence why it is what are planning to use as our big stretch goal, we didn't feel we could do it justice on the budget we would have with the base funding goal. Its up to the backers to decide if we can do this or not.

One question I have (and I only skimmed that post, so maybe you addressed it) is how the special levels would be coordinated with the normal ones. Like... do the special levels have similar settings and level designs, just with beefed-up challenges, or are they completely different, a la the branching paths in something like Rondo of Blood?
 

Rubikant

Member
One question I have (and I only skimmed that post, so maybe you addressed it) is how the special levels would be coordinated with the normal ones. Like... do the special levels have similar settings and level designs, just with beefed-up challenges, or are they completely different, a la the branching paths in something like Rondo of Blood?

Different level, at least in terms of design (collision, layout, enemies, objects, etc). We are still debating about how similar art and music track would be though.

I was thinking of it as being that, for example, on the next leg of Volgarr's journey he must traverse the jungle. He could go 2 different ways through the jungle, so each way would be a totally different part of it. But its still a jungle, thus both paths would still look like a jungle and likely have the same or at least similar music.

I thought this made sense because it would make each level overall fit a theme and make sense for the progression of his journey through different terrain, and when you got knocked back to the base path it wouldn't be so odd that he's suddenly in a completely different environment type.

Plus if you are the type of player that prefers only one path all the time (like always the 1cc path), I would hate for it to just coincidentally be that the environmental themes that end up on your preferred path are the ones you don't like as much, which isn't an issue if each level fits the same overall environment theme on either path but is otherwise completely different.

We still aren't set on this though, it was just my initial thought when we came up with the idea and level art decisions hasn't been as high priority as nailing the game mechanics so far. Even if they are in the same theme though the levels on either path should look pretty distinctive from each other.

Of course the extra last level would be a completely different environment type unique to it.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Different level, at least in terms of design (collision, layout, enemies, objects, etc). We are still debating about how similar art and music track would be though.

I was thinking of it as being that, for example, on the next leg of Volgarr's journey he must traverse the jungle. He could go 2 different ways through the jungle, so each way would be a totally different part of it. But its still a jungle, thus both paths would still look like a jungle and likely have the same or at least similar music.

I thought this made sense because it would make each level overall fit a theme and make sense for the progression of his journey through different terrain, and when you got knocked back to the base path it wouldn't be so odd that he's suddenly in a completely different environment type.

Plus if you are the type of player that prefers only one path all the time (like always the 1cc path), I would hate for it to just coincidentally be that the environmental themes that end up on your preferred path are the ones you don't like as much, which isn't an issue if each level fits the same overall environment theme on either path but is otherwise completely different.

We still aren't set on this though, it was just my initial thought when we came up with the idea and level art decisions hasn't been as high priority as nailing the game mechanics so far. Even if they are in the same theme though the levels on either path should look pretty distinctive from each other.

Of course the extra last level would be a completely different environment type unique to it.

Yeah, I think the best approach would be to have the special stages be somewhat related to the normal stages... again, sort of like how Border Down handled it. I think slightly remixing the normal stage's music would be a nice touch, too. Give the song like... a house music remix or something rad like that. Actually, that's probably a bad idea... I just like the idea of some Viking dude hacking up fools with house music in the background.

I should probably just go to sleep instead of continuing the tirade of bad ideas.
 
I really like what I see. I'm glad you guys are taking such a thorough and thoughtful approach in designing this game. I think you make a good point that the challenge of the special levels is the long-term pacing of trying to conserve and earn lives/warrior spirits, so I don't think the special path needs to be harder than the base levels. I'll be curious to see what the alternate checkpoint style is. I think 2 checkpoints on the base path is good, but once the warrior spirits come into play on the special path I might like to see more checkpoints, actually. Maybe just one or two more, depending on the length of the level-- or something equivalent, depending on how the alternate checkpoint system works. Since that path really is a forced 1cc path (if you want to get ending 3, that is), it might be nice to have the pacing be slightly less Ghouls 'n' Ghosts style. Be a little more lenient for the harder path. Make the levels just as hard, but the pacing just a shade more forgiving. Might sound counterintuitive, but that's how I feel. Demand greater short-term perfection on the infinite lives path by implementing the more widely spaced checkpoints. But since there's a long-term survival game at play on the special path, definitely experiment with a checkpoint method that's not quite as harsh.

I can't help but feel the base path might just end up being the inferior path. That's the only "danger" here. With infinite lives and more widely spaced checkpoints I think it risks being a more frustrating or tedious experience compared to the special path. Ironically, I think that's what all arcade games feel like when credit feeding, even the good ones. The special path just sounds so much more exciting to me since the "bigger" game comes into play of managing and earning more warrior spirits, including the risk of losing it all-- that's the real meat of the game. This game might be the perfect way to get people onboard the 1cc method. I think in the end more people will gravitate towards getting ending 3 than merely settling for the first or second ending.

I really like this system that pleases both parties without compromising either side. Your solution to essentially create two games and cleverly weave them together deserves major respect. The easy way out was to just have one path and force no continues and leave the credit feeders in the dust. But you went all the way, and solved the issue by doing more work, making double the amount of levels, so I really appreciate that.

One more thing popped into my head. I actually don't know if I would want the special stages to be that different from the regular ones. If they were too different from each other, it might make the regular stages for the 1cc players feel less important and it would be discouraging for those who didn't want to go the special route. By making them more similar, the 1cc player would still get something out of the normal stages and the those that didn't want to get ending 2 or 3 would feel less like they were missing out on the "real" game. Maybe just have the special stages slightly arranged and a pallet swap/graphics tweak to backgrounds to make the special stages look more menacing.

edit: I see that issue was already addressed. Looks like we're on the same page regarding the difference between special and normal stages.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
I just caught up on this new proposal... I won't go through and comment point-by-point, but generally speaking, I think it's a great idea and I hope you're able to make it happen.

Just curious: have you guys played the GBA port of SG'n'G? I bought a copy just this week and it happens to feature an arrange mode with branching paths, too.
 

fauxtrot

Banned
I just want to say WOW. I have been developing my own 2D side-scroller, and I'm incredibly envious of what you guys have put together and the ideas/mechanics behind it. Don't worry, I won't be stealing any of your features (my game is very different) but I am seriously pumped to play this. Definitely pledging $40 now and potentially more as I get paid. The $150 tier with the fake cart is, as the FGC says, GODLIKE.
 

Rubikant

Member
I'll be curious to see what the alternate checkpoint style is.

I'm sorry I may have not made that clear in the text, the "alternate checkpoint style" is just the fact that you have the spirits (lives) rather than infinitely re-spawning. The checkpoints themselves will also be visually different so its made clearer why you don't re-spawn forever at the same point as you did before, with the ones on the special path showing however many spirits you have left hovering around it, to indicate to the player every time they die and re-appear at one that something is being lost every time, and then later when they run out of spirits and end up at a resurrection statue on the other path, it kind of makes sense what happened - resurrection statues can revive you with no limitations (and this was the closest one geographically), but this different-looking checkpoint in the special path can only revive you a limited number of times. Its really more about theme, they otherwise work the same way.

You make some great points about the pacing, difficulty, and checkpoint spacing on the special path, we are still experimenting with those factors to find the best experience.

I just caught up on this new proposal... I won't go through and comment point-by-point, but generally speaking, I think it's a great idea and I hope you're able to make it happen.

Just curious: have you guys played the GBA port of SG'n'G? I bought a copy just this week and it happens to feature an arrange mode with branching paths, too.

Why yes, yes I have played that...
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
Cool, it just struck me as an odd coincidence as I'd been racking my brain trying to think of examples of linear platform games with branching paths only to find one in SG'n'G GBA, which I had no idea about beforehand. I guess you were one step ahead!

If you wanted to be really ambitious you could try taking a leaf out of Kid Chameleon's book...

E: oops - http://i.imgur.com/3AS7k.jpg
 

zeioIIDX

Member
Just pledged $35 after seeing the Kickstarter video and the other three which showed a look at Volgarr being animated! Amazing stuff and I'm really excited to see how the game turns out :)
 

Ziophaelin

Member
Cool, it just struck me as an odd coincidence as I'd been racking my brain trying to think of examples of linear platform games with branching paths only to find one in SG'n'G GBA, which I had no idea about beforehand. I guess you were one step ahead!

If you wanted to be really ambitious you could try taking a leaf out of Kid Chameleon's book...

E: oops - http://i.imgur.com/3AS7k.jpg

*cough* our diagram was "simplified" :p But probably won't be that big. hahaha
 

giggas

Member
I backed this last night. First Kickstarter I ever supported. There have been plenty I wanted to support in the past, but I knew it would become a new thing I'd just throw money at and things have been a bit tight around here.

Anyway, I really loved Shinobi 3D and I'm a HUGE fan of the GnG games. I like the ideas presented in the video, about the specific jumping in classic games and what not. Totally want to see this game happen now. Good luck with it guys, hope you reach your goal.
 

BriBri

Member
I took the $15 pledge today. Not sure how I'll play it as I only have Apple (and Nintendo, and Sega, and NEC, and Sinclair), but still!
 
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