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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War
- Thread starter GarthVaderUK
- Start date
Cosmic Schwung
Member
Yep, they're pretty much the sole exception to the Imperium's ban on AIs.
Machine spirits are not AI, because AI is banned as techno heresy and the cult Mechanicus isn't heretical so they cannot be AI.
there is some talk about how there are bits of human brains in the more advanced spirits but dunno how accurate it is
The mechanicum promotes the idea that all machines have a spirit in order to keep the general populace ignorant about technology. True machine spirits are a form of AI made using a lobotomised brain.
Necrons are out next week and I see all the cards are sold out already. Guess it is time to finally move on to 7th ed.
So.......... what's a machine spirit?
I mean, even the space marine armour has spirits. All these rituals and...things.
The mechanicum tells the people that every machine has a machine spirit. The rituals and mysticism are a smoke screen to keep the general populace from messing with technology. The lower levels of the tech priests all believe in it but in some stories higher up members have been shown to know it is nonsense.
The true machine spirits present in Land Raiders, Drop Pods, Hydra's etc are AI systems made using biological components.
The term machine spirit is also a way of understanding this technology that hasn't really been improved in millenia.
Say you're servicing a Vindicator.
Your tech priests perform all these checks: fluids, cables and belts, electronics, onboard computer, weapon calibration. They might not know exactly how to do these things from a technical standpoint, but by making it into a ritual, it's easy to pass on to the coming generations. Over time, these rituals become tradition and people soon develop spiritual connections to the machinery. So now, checking the hydraulic systems looks more like you're baptizing someone. It's still an effective way to service the vehicle, even if at this point in the future, tech priests might not know exactly why these systems work or even have a hope of replicating them.
It's one of my favorite aspects of lore in 40k.
Say you're servicing a Vindicator.
Your tech priests perform all these checks: fluids, cables and belts, electronics, onboard computer, weapon calibration. They might not know exactly how to do these things from a technical standpoint, but by making it into a ritual, it's easy to pass on to the coming generations. Over time, these rituals become tradition and people soon develop spiritual connections to the machinery. So now, checking the hydraulic systems looks more like you're baptizing someone. It's still an effective way to service the vehicle, even if at this point in the future, tech priests might not know exactly why these systems work or even have a hope of replicating them.
It's one of my favorite aspects of lore in 40k.
Yeah, when they "soothe" the machine spirit because a tank refuses to move, they can for example re-oil some gears or something like that. And ofc burn incense and such, which is why they can skip the incense parts of the ritual and the machine still works, though the priests will make a fuss about upsetting the machine spirits.
Cosmic Schwung
Member
Calling it a Machine Spirit is the big get-around. I doubt most Tech priest really know the details and everybody knows machines have spirits and these ones just happen to be smarter than the rest. They don't question what that big black sphere in the front of the Land Raider is. They just know it needs to be there when they build it.
I seem to recall Titans had pretty advanced machine spirits too. So advanced that you could actually converse with them.
Titans machinespirits eat their pilots brains according to Titanicus. But I don't think that you can converse with them per se, but with the stored memories of previous princeps.
But there's also the pychic influence of the warp suffusing everything in Warhammer 40K. Just like orky technology only working because orks think it will (and red ones really going faster and blue ones really being luckier) because everyone in the Imperium believes there are machine spirits that like incense and ritual then because of that... there are and the lack of incense and ritual CAN make them less reliable. It's a screwed up feedback loop.
The Tau must shake their head constantly at everything that goes on in the rest of the galaxy.
The Tau must shake their head constantly at everything that goes on in the rest of the galaxy.
Seductivpancakes
Member
Warhammer-GAF, I recently dug out my warhammer stuff. Fantasy and 40k.
I'm about to paint up a fantasy nurgle champ. I've only ever dry brushed armor. Especially if its chain mail. I was wondering if i should not this time around. Do you guys dry brush armor?
I'm about to paint up a fantasy nurgle champ. I've only ever dry brushed armor. Especially if its chain mail. I was wondering if i should not this time around. Do you guys dry brush armor?
Seductivpancakes
Member
I hadn't think on using ink to do some nurgle details. I was just gonna base and dry brush, wash it for got effect.
I'm guessing if you don't dry brush, its a much slower process.
Android18a
Member
I'd get hold of a rust coloured pigment, such as those by Forge World or Secret Weapon. Brush a little of that over the armour for an amazing rust effect that won't have the shiny texture of a wash.
I don't know about that. The warp affects everything in 40k and it runs on belief.
But only to that extent in places where the boundary is thin or through the effort of psykers (or both). The orks are innately generating warp energy so they can do the "clap your hands if you believe" stuff. Humans aren't psychic to that extent.
Oh yeah, I was talking a very very minor version of what orks can do. Human technology is certainly more open to warp influence than Tau tech is for example. Most 40K fluff books I've read (which aren't many admittedly) has some machine going nuts because Chaos.
That's true, Chaos can corrupt machines just as well as flesh. But they're not usually taking over machine spirits, unless you replace one with a demon. It's like how CSM armors tend to grow extra bones alongside its wearer. The Dark Age of Technology stuff certainly didn't have any machine spirits in them since back them humans actually knew how stuff worked, but Chaos has corrupted several of those as well.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Speaking of which how is Vengeful Spirit? Didn't you like it a lot Kara?
gingerlord
Member
Back in the day I was a fairly avid Fantasy collector/player but never really 40k. Got back into the gaming side a while back but still not 40k, I had a few models to paint but none of my circle of friends played it so they just stayed packed away.
Now a friend just dropped off a box of his stuff he no longer wants and I expected it just to be a mess of stuff, however I opened the box and inside is:
I think its time for 40k....
Any tips for painting Imperial Fists, they always seemed like a cool bunch and yellows used to be near impossible to do back when I used to play a lot. Would take about a million layers of Sunburst Yellow.
Now a friend just dropped off a box of his stuff he no longer wants and I expected it just to be a mess of stuff, however I opened the box and inside is:
- 6x 10 man Tactical Squads, all assemebled but most unpainted
- 2 x Rhino undercoated in fluresoecnt orange...
- 1x brand new Devastator squad box
I think its time for 40k....
Any tips for painting Imperial Fists, they always seemed like a cool bunch and yellows used to be near impossible to do back when I used to play a lot. Would take about a million layers of Sunburst Yellow.
Sounds like a good haul! Yeah yellow is a pain, and there are varying suggestions. A white spray undercoat is probably best, and some people swear by starting with a light brown base coat - although I'd probably go 75/25 yellow to light brown mix. Because it's such a difficult colour, it might be a good idea to get an airbrush - this should help prevent (or at least minimise) imperfections.
gingerlord
Member
Any recommendations for a good starter airbrush (preferably UK sourceable)?
Seems a lot of the starter ones run off separate cans rather than compressors, at what point does the cost of cans outweigh the initial outlay of a compressor.
Seems a lot of the starter ones run off separate cans rather than compressors, at what point does the cost of cans outweigh the initial outlay of a compressor.
Try the local arts/crafts/hobby shop in your town - the ones that sell military scale models and such. They should help you out with recommendations.
Android18a
Member
Army Painter yellow spray.
^ Best way to do Imperial Fists, imo. Get the matching paint, a sepia wash for shadows and a bone colour for highlights and your armour will be easy
^ Best way to do Imperial Fists, imo. Get the matching paint, a sepia wash for shadows and a bone colour for highlights and your armour will be easy
I did, yeah. Huge ass planetary conquest. Smurfs getting smoked. Garviel Loken coming back home. Knight house intrigue. Shit balls hard. "Remember the Moon."
My only real gripe is that the most important part of the story isn't actually discussed in any meaningful way. (If you've read The First Heretic, it's similar to what happens with the Gal Vorbak's "pilgrimage".) There's also the forced loyalist subplots but I'm not going to complain since there isn't a single Iron Hand, Salamander, or Raven Guard in them. (Those are in the Knights-Errant subplot, however.)
Finished Talon of Horus. Can't believe they're going to have Faibaddon kill
Sigismund
Deified Data
Banned
Spent all night playing DoW multi with my wife.
I neeeed DoW 3 to be a thing.
I neeeed DoW 3 to be a thing.
Magnus thought he had done something similar and look how that turned out.
I'm listening to Dammnation of Pythos now. I don't have to worry about a Drop Site Massacre survivor subplot because that is the plot. Wait a minute, that's worse.
Magnus thought he had done something similar and look how that turned out.
I'm listening to Dammnation of Pythos now. I don't have to worry about a Drop Site Massacre survivor subplot because that is the plot. Wait a minute, that's worse.
I thought Magnus got fooled by Tzeentch while
Horus
TheSadRanger
Banned
Technically he got fooled twice, the first time when he struck a deal to delay his legion from mutating and the second when he was given power
to break the psychic warding on Terra to warn the empruh
justasplanned.jpg
IIRC it was last minute regret of killing his legion coupled with Tzeentch taunting him about it
My only worry is that they're going to clamp up again after the shovelware fails to sell.
Deified Data
Banned
I continue to be mystified how these shovelware games keep getting made considering how protective GW is of the IP. Some of them like Mordheim came out of nowhere and surprised me, but others like Storm of Vengeance just have me scratching my head.
TheSadRanger
Banned
How is Mordheim defied? I've read some opinions on gaf about but there's not that much out there on it, there's no OT on the game just a early access thread with one page. Is the single player campaign finished and playable? It's actually 33% off right now on Steam so I was thinking about getting it but Divinity just went on sale today to.
There was a gaf thread not to long ago about Relic staffing back up for DoW3.
The 40k stuff
Deified Data
Banned
Honestly I've only watched videos, but what I've seen looks really cool (to me). Kind of like a melee-focused Valkyria Chronicles. It's still in early access so I personally wouldn't bite yet, but it looks more polished than your average Warhammer game. I don't think single-player campaign has been a huge focus so far, but it's been mentioned as something they're working on for the final release. I'd definitely say keep an eye on it.
I wasn't trying to make a 1:1, rather observing that (imo) Chaos can't be truly beaten and when someone allegedly does, it's probably just cover to trick them into making a pact.
I'm sure it will probably get changed in the books, but in the legend of the HH there comes a point during the fight on the Vengeful Spirit during the Battle of Terra where the gods abandon
Horus
Even ascending to daemon prince is no guarantee of favor. (Talon of Horus spoiler)
In Abaddon's quest to become Warmaster he eventually gets all the daemon prince primarchs to swear fealty to him and it's not voluntarily.
I think we're talking around each other here regarding
Besides, the Chaos Gods are fickle and before it got retconned it was amazing how Failbaddon could still be the Warmaster after his numerous... attempts.
And yeah, daemonhood gives you much but it also makes you a plaything of the gods (well, even more so). It's somewhere in the fluff that this is why Abaddon hasn''t ascended to daemonhood because he saw how the daemon primarchs had more interest in warp turf wars than making the galaxy burn.
Horus.
And yeah, daemonhood gives you much but it also makes you a plaything of the gods (well, even more so). It's somewhere in the fluff that this is why Abaddon hasn''t ascended to daemonhood because he saw how the daemon primarchs had more interest in warp turf wars than making the galaxy burn.
Yeah, he's always found the Great Game revolting. I guess a stopped clock can be right twice a day. Though when I think about it, Huron Blackheart has done OK for himself after making a pact with the gods. (If you ignore the whole "in constant agonizing pain" and "being burgled by like 20 Night Lords" things that is.)
Speaking of hilarious retcons, in Talon the Emperor's Children are kind of a menace 2 society throughout most of the story yet the story takes place after the Battle of Skalathrax. ADB pls, you're already pushing your luck with World Eaters who prefer to use heavy bolters.
Speaking of hilarious retcons, in Talon the Emperor's Children are kind of a menace 2 society throughout most of the story yet the story takes place after the Battle of Skalathrax. ADB pls, you're already pushing your luck with World Eaters who prefer to use heavy bolters.