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[Toma]

Yeah it would be tough to match Torment's inspired visuals, but I think they can manage to make it impressive.

There's this Czech RPG that is a nice-looking modern isometric game:

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469264

Not sure what the budget was on it but I can't imagine it was too high; it's an indie game from a relatively unknown dev. Smaller team sizes can lower a budget substantially, particularly if they take salary cuts as Fargo was saying the inXile guys would. This is their team: http://www.inquisitor.cz/?page=team

Wow, looks amazing. Problem with that thinking is that Wasteland 2 sort of has a deadline, smaller Indie games usually don't. I don't have the numbers, but they possibly have worked on the art assets for 5 years in that Czech game. Just a guess, but I mean they need to take the time to do that from somewhere, and with such a short development process for W2 either its lots of rather ordinarily looking items/assets or not quite as much, but with a better and highly detailed art style.

And I'd rather have more distinct items in the world than less items/assets that look better. Also, the easier the art style is to emulate, the higher the chances for getting mods that add assets content, so I am not even sure how beautiful I want it to be really. Just a handful of people who could mod a new region into Planescape Torment, whereas modding/adding assets and content for (for example) Geneforge would be way easier.

I am sure the opinions will go apart on that point, but I want this game to be as moddable as possible with as many assets from the start as possible (the modding more or less being my main draw even above the included SP campaign), and that certainly would make it easier to add content with the same art style.

Reference pic Geneforge:

 

[First Name]

The only similarities I see to MW art are superficial things that are common in a lot of concept art/promotional materials. Light at the back, gazing off to the side a little bit, guns out, a little bit of tactical armor plus balaclavas.

Beyond that I don't see much of anything that'd lead me to make that connection. I really like it, actually.

edit: shit, posted a little late. Don't mean to pile on you, B Rik.

 

[subversus]

meanwhile it's almost at 2.2k including PayPal donations. Nice.

 

[speedpop]

I don't know if this been posted but there's a RPS interview with Chris Avellone about W2 and Obsidian in general: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/07/interview-obsidians-chris-avellone-on-wasteland-2/

edit: sorry, dp

Great interview.

 

[akira28]

Frankly speaking I'm tired of retro sci-fi in modern games. I get that you love retro sci-fi because it's sci-fi you grew up with. But I'd prefer if Wasteland was set in a "modern" post-apocalypsis world. It would be fresh.

So you're tired of retro sci-fi. Me too. That's why I don't want one whit of that 1950's throwback stuff in my Wasteland sequel.

Your idea of modernizing it won't work because this is a sequel to that world created back in 1988, so while there might have been some modern changes, it wouldn't be related to what you might consider "modern post apocalyptic" today. We don't want this "dusted up" or spiced or spruced up or made spiffy or changed around to reconnect with "younger gamers". We did the whole kickstarter thing to get away from corporate type suggestions like that. It might seem retro to you, but it is continuity as far as Wasteland is concerned. Not to mention that it's an alternate history future, so making it resemble our modern world doesn't make sense. This should be a continuing of this already established world. And while the game might be a decade or two after the first one, we would expect that world to have further developments based on what came before. Not a "modern" interpretation of how Wasteland would look in the age of GaGa, Bush, and Bieber.

 

[Zeliard]

Wow, looks amazing. Problem with that thinking is that Wasteland 2 sort of has a deadline, smaller Indie games usually don't. I don't have the numbers, but they possibly have worked on the art assets for 5 years in that Czech game. Just a guess, but I mean they need to take the time to do that from somewhere, and with such a short development process for W2 either its lots of rather ordinarily looking items/assets or not quite as much, but with a better and highly detailed art style.

And I'd rather have more distinct items in the world than less items/assets that look better. Also, the easier the art style is to emulate, the higher the chances for getting mods that add assets content, so I am not even sure how beautiful I want it to be really. Just a handful of people who could mod a new region into Planescape Torment, whereas modding/adding assets and content for (for example) Geneforge would be way easier.

I am sure the opinions will go apart on that point, but I want this game to be as moddable as possible (the modding more or less being my main draw even above the included SP campaign), and that certainly would make it easier to add content with the same art style.

Well the reason I think they're also going to emphasize visuals to some extent is because Fargo has said a couple of things about attempting a striking art style. I like Geneforge but I get the impression that Fargo wants to do something a bit more substantial as far as the look of the game.

But they haven't said too much on that front so it remains to be seen. The only thing we really know for sure is it'll be isometric. Not sure what tools they're gonna work with exactly, as far as both theirs and Obsidian's, as well as what sorts of art assets they may already have.

I think we were perhaps looking at something closer to Geneforge with that original million dollar mark, but now that they have quite a bit more they can do more work with art assets along with other things. But it's still a total unknown at this point. I think they'll be able to strike a nice balance between visuals, mods and the open-ended nature of the gameplay.

Also Torment, while a very good-looking game overall, did have certain sections that were simpler-looking and got by on excellent writing. Your encounter with Ravel in the maze comes to mind as a notable example. That was a relatively simple environment artistically, but still one of the more memorable ones. People modding WL2 should be able to do something great with it even if the actual art assets they create aren't anything significant relative to the rest of the game, by concentrating on the gameplay and characters.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

The only similarities I see to MW art are superficial things that are common in a lot of concept art/promotional materials. Light at the back, gazing off to the side a little bit, guns out, a little bit of tactical armor plus balaclavas.

Beyond that I don't see much of anything that'd lead me to make that connection. I really like it, actually.

edit: shit, posted a little late. Don't mean to pile on you, B Rik.

It's fine, I just want people to know the context from which the whole MW thing came form.

 

[Toma]

Well the reason I think they're also going to emphasize visuals to some extent is because Fargo has said a couple of things about attempting a striking art style. I like Geneforge but I get the impression that Fargo wants to do something a bit more substantial as far as the look of the game.

But they haven't said too much on that front so it remains to be seen. The only thing we really know for sure is it'll be isometric. Not sure what tools they're gonna work with exactly, as far as both theirs and Obsidian's, as well as what sorts of art assets they may already have.

I think we were perhaps looking at something closer to Geneforge with that original million dollar mark, but now that they have quite a bit more they can do more work with art assets along with other things. But it's still a total unknown at this point. I think they'll be able to strike a nice balance between visuals, mods and the open-ended nature of the gameplay.

Also Torment, while a very good-looking game overall, did have certain sections that were simpler-looking and got by on excellent writing. Your encounter with Ravel in the maze comes to mind as a notable example. That was a relatively simple environment artistically, but still one of the more memorable ones. People modding WL2 should be able to do something great with it even if the actual art assets they create aren't anything significant relative to the rest of the game, by concentrating on the gameplay and characters.

True, thanks for the interesting discussion! As you correctly said, we simply dont know, so no choice but to wait it out, but I guess what I am trying to say is that people shouldnt be disappointed if it doesnt look like Planescape Torment

 

[Corto]

Has Fargo told anything about increasing the developing time due to bigger funding/scope than what it was originally expected?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Has Fargo told anything about increasing the developing time due to bigger funding/scope than what it was originally expected?

He often takes about bringing more people on as the money rises, I can't remember any talk of time frames increasing alone similar lines.

 

[Famassu]

Has Fargo told anything about increasing the developing time due to bigger funding/scope than what it was originally expected?

Nah, they'll just have a bigger team (they'll hire more designers, artists & such so that they can crank out more stuff in the same time) instead of keeping the team size the same but developing it longer. They'll still develop it in the 18 month timeframe (at least if there's no delays...)

 

[Corto]

He often takes about bringing more people on as the money rises, I can't remember any talk of time frames increasing alone similar lines.

It would be totally understandable if he decides to do so, but these will be tough 18 months to wait for this game. I still don't know if I want to keep up with the development process of the game or go on a total blackout.

 

[Zeliard]

The great thing is inXile is under no real burden to release it by a certain time, specifically. Gamers will (ideally) be more understanding than publishers about delays if those delays are being used to make a better, more polished experience. They don't necessarily have to rush it out the door if they think they can use more time, and communicate that properly to those who helped fund the game.

True, thanks for the interesting discussion! As you correctly said, we simply dont know, so no choice but to wait it out, but I guess what I am trying to say is that people shouldnt be disappointed if it doesnt look like Planescape Torment

I'm used to disappointment when it comes to comparing games with Planescape: Torment.

 

[Toma]

3 and a half hour left for today and 2,196,000 currently. Close, but the 2,2M will be breached soon, that leaves 800k for the remaining 10 days ( 9 days and 8 hours to be exact)

On that note, I just noticed that ending a Kickstarter at 8 in the morning (US time) isn't really the best choice. Guess you could squeeze a few more bucks out of peoples pockets if they are actually awake and not working (since its a tuesday) to look at this thing.

 

[DiscoJer]

I don't see too big of a jump between the original and the sequel

Less orange in the palette, I guess, and less leather. (And yeah, the original is the picture of the devs, not actual game, but that's what they were imagining)

 

[mclem]

The great thing is inXile is under no real burden to release it by a certain time, specifically. Gamers will (ideally) be more understanding than publishers about delays if those delays are being used to make a better, more polished experience. They don't necessarily have to rush it out the door if they think they can use more time, and communicate that properly to those who helped fund the game.

It does cross my mind that with Avellone on board, they have a guy available who's had good experience at integrating DLC into an open-world game. I wonder if they'd consider making a release at around the original time - but without spending all the money on the game - and then (free) patches adding in more areas and quests - separate from the critical path to completion - after the game's launch.

I've said a few times that I've been a little worried about where the money would come from for post-release support - at least until revenue from actual sales comes in - and that setup would allow them to keep tweaking and improving the game as well as adding in more content beyond the original schedule.

 

[Erethian]

$2,151,075 w/ Kickstarter + $49,040 w/ Paypal. Should easily pass $2.5 million considering there will be a final push, will probably end up somewhere around $2.7 or $2.8.

 

[bengraven]

One character looks like a modern soldier. One looks like maybe a modern bounty hunter or more modern cowboy. One looks like a medieval knight.

I got a lot of impressions from this, but COD I did not. Jesus Christ.

 

[AstroLad]

maybe wasteland 2 is going to have more of a timekillers vibe

still needs more color for that though

 

[Pachterballs]

the art is perfect for the sequel. The hues echo wasteland's cover art. It looks like they are standing in a group; at night; with a possible fire going on in the back. hence the hues. Its got neat touches going on everywhere; cowboy hats/jackets; retroesque spiked helmets

guy even has a rangerstar on his belt.

Stop shitting on it with CODmw dude bro comments.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Almost at $50k PayPal. Which means we'll have rocketed up $100k.

@Zeilard: Gamers? Understanding delays? You're talking about an audience where half of them think that delays are just done to be evil.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Absolutely love the art. Showcases the great mashing of western lore and ruined past of a high tech society.

To those complaining about the color pallet, standing backlit to a raging fire isn't the best lighting for judging how color would actually look in normal lighting. Also, as stated, concept art.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

We are officially at $2,211,263!

And PayPal is $490+ away from $50k!

 

[SparkTR]

How much did funding speed up since they released the concept art?

 

[Erethian]

How much did funding speed up since they released the concept art?

It actually sped up a few days ago, so the only thing releasing the concept art would have done is keep that bump going.

http://ruinedkingdoms.com/wasteland2/

 

[zon]

How many days are left now?

 

[O.DOGG]

I like the first piece of concept art very much. Really looking forward to learning more about the direction they're taking the game. I love that they're being transparent with their decisions so far. I hope this continues when development really gets going.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

How many days are left now?

9

 

[Zeliard]

It does cross my mind that with Avellone on board, they have a guy available who's had good experience at integrating DLC into an open-world game. I wonder if they'd consider making a release at around the original time - but without spending all the money on the game - and then (free) patches adding in more areas and quests - separate from the critical path to completion - after the game's launch.

I've said a few times that I've been a little worried about where the money would come from for post-release support - at least until revenue from actual sales comes in - and that setup would allow them to keep tweaking and improving the game as well as adding in more content beyond the original schedule.

Very true. This is certainly a possibility, and probably a better one. I think a delay would probably be less for adding content and more for adding some of that extra spit-shine polish. Since they're holding a beta - and the game will be by its nature complex in terms of open-endedness - a delay may end up necessary to properly smooth everything out if the beta-testers find more funky things than the devs were expecting.

@Zeilard: Gamers? Understanding delays? You're talking about an audience where half of them think that delays are just done to be evil.

The people giving money to these sorts of Kickstarters are probably largely oldschool gamers and would be more understanding of delays in the name of quality, particularly if it's communicated properly. The fact that no publisher's greasy hands are involved would aid in the impression that the game is being delayed purely to make the game better.

 

[scy]

The people giving money to these sorts of Kickstarters are probably largely oldschool gamers and would be more understanding of delays in the name of quality, particularly if it's communicated properly. The fact that no publisher's greasy hands are involved would aid in the impression that the game is being delayed purely to make the game better.

You have a better outlook on people than I do :x

 

[Zeliard]

Everyone's a cynic!

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I don't think the people interested in Wasteland 2 (let alone Shadowrun Returns, Double Fine Adventure, etc.) are your regular dudebros who want their games now, now, now. With the communication channels directly open to gamers, developers shouldn't have much issue explaining their delays.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

$2,230,451!

I don't think the people interested in Wasteland 2 (let alone Shadowrun Returns, Double Fine Adventure, etc.) are your regular dudebros who want their games now, now, now.

I think you've got your terms mixed up.

And most gamers think of Kickstarter as a pre-order, which means they do expect the game.

 

[Aselith]

Is inXile just going to let it peter out now? No more milestones for the last week?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Is inXile just going to let it peter out now? No more milestones for the last week?

It would be a tremendous missed opportunity. I think they'll have a $2.5M goal and maybe one further up in a final video and update.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Is inXile just going to let it peter out now? No more milestones for the last week?

Well, the next big milestone is $2.5M, for more contracted work. Then, the big, big one is 3M, but it looks like it may only hit $2.5M.

 

[Toma]

Is inXile just going to let it peter out now? No more milestones for the last week?

They have milestones, just not very good ones. Reaching the 3M one is by no means sure currently.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

They have milestones, just not very good ones. Reaching the 3M one is by no means sure currently.

Hiring more people to work on the game if they need it is always good.

 

[EviLore]

Hiring more people to work on the game if they need it is always good.

It's not presented in a way that attracts more funding.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It's not presented in a way that attracts more funding.

How else would they say it, though? They could go into deeper detail, but if they don't offer a sexy reward, they don't offer a sexy reward.

You know, if anything, they should have maybe put Mod Tools at $2.8M, that way $3M does not seem so bloody far off.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

How else would they say it, though? They could go into deeper detail, but if they don't offer a sexy reward, they don't offer a sexy reward.

You know, if anything, they should have maybe put Mod Tools at $2.8M, that way $3M does not seem so bloody far off.

Look at the Shadowrun kickstarter. They have a clear vision and outline everything, including goals, perfectly.

The Wasteland kickstarter is shrouded in vagueness. However, I still backed it, because of the names tied to the project.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

PayPal just passed $50k and is now at $51k.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

I'm not sure Fargo really wants more funding that badly at this point. He seems to have everything he needs to realize his vision already and doesn't seem to know what to do with more excess. If he were to hit three million he's basically saying he'll just hire a dedicated modkit team rather than doing it after launch.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm not sure Fargo really wants more funding that badly at this point. He seems to have everything he needs to realize his vision already and doesn't seem to know what to do with more excess. If he were to hit three million he's basically saying he'll just hire a dedicated modkit team rather than doing it after launch.

You know, I honestly can't wait for a campaign to come along the breaches the DFA Line. That will be something.

 

[Lancehead]

I'm not sure Fargo really wants more funding that badly at this point. He seems to have everything he needs to realize his vision already and doesn't seem to know what to do with more excess. If he were to hit three million he's basically saying he'll just hire a dedicated modkit team rather than doing it after launch.

Developers with more money than needed/wanted?! That's got to be a first or something.

 

[Corto]

You know, I honestly can't wait for a campaign to come along the breaches the DFA Line. That will be something.

Obsidian is taking notes.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Obsidian is taking notes.

Obsidian said they were learning from Fargo but honestly I hope they take more notes from Double Fine, Shadowrun, and The Banner Saga. Those Kickstarters have all been managed very well and each brought something different to their pitches. I agree that if Obsidian plays their cards right, they may be able to surpass Double Fine.

For the sake of the company Obsidian would probably want to do a new IP that they would own themselves, something they don't currently possess. That puts them at a slight disadvantage, but by the same token I'd bet that a lot of people who pledged to Wasteland 2 did it on the strength of the names attached, not the name of the franchise. And The Banner Saga managed to do pretty well even as a new IP with a new studio consisting of three people almost no one had ever heard of before.

 

[Sentenza]

Obsidian said they were learning from Fargo but honestly I hope they take more notes from Double Fine, Shadowrun, and The Banner Saga. Those Kickstarters have all been managed very well and each brought something different to their pitches. I agree that if Obsidian plays their cards right, they may be able to surpass Double Fine.

I honestly don't think that Double Fine did anything great beside having Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert as frontmen (which isn't something others can copy) and having a proven track of quality productions.

In fact when it comes to the project itself, they barely stated their intention to make a new "old school adventure game".

 

[charlequin]

I honestly don't think that Double Fine did anything great beside having Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert as frontmen (which isn't something others can copy) and having a proven track of quality productions.

In fact when it comes to the project itself, they barely stated their intention to make a new "old school adventure game".

Yeah, I honestly think inXile did a much better job at some things, like designing better reward tiers in general than DFA had. I think they could've been much more responsive in terms of providing content hints, videos, etc. to the userbase, and their last set of stretch goals aren't ideally chosen, but otherwise I think they've handled themselves pretty well and it's reflected in their success.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Yeah, I honestly think inXile did a much better job at some things, like designing better reward tiers in general than DFA had. I think they could've been much more responsive in terms of providing content hints, videos, etc. to the userbase, and their last set of stretch goals aren't ideally chosen, but otherwise I think they've handled themselves pretty well and it's reflected in their success.

They only provided one video update though, that lousy Hard Drive segment. The stretch goals have been poorly articulated and sometimes poorly chosen, they just had the massive benefit of being able to promise Chris Avellone halfway through and that pretty much made the project unstoppable.