Watch_Dogs downgradeaton confirmed
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nelsonroyale
Member
Here is some gameplay footage, with small cuts of the trailer if you do wish to check it out:
http://www.everyeye.it/ps4/videogiochi/watch-dogs_21823#video
Also, while I am sure many devs didnt know the final specs of the PS4 before 2013, literally nobody thought it was going to have a GTX 680 equivalent. The final specs were actually higher than most were predicting, 6 months before the reveal. Some were saying a 6850 actually with 2-4 gb...
Jezus christ just stop posting you don't know what your saying.
So we have to all agree and pray on our knees saying yes to developers to fool us? Fuck no.
butman
Member
Sacred words that must be spread!
All this mess reminds me the of Killzone 2 intro sequence between E3 2006 and E3 2007 footage.
Video >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2iw1x7oVIY (Didn't find a best quality)
It was maded by Gametrailers, that makes me wonder why this time they doesn't do the same thing with Watch Dog. This must be spread! Enought of Target Renders!
Okay... so every game should never be shown until a month out because the target frame rate and content is never fully realized until the very end.
EatinOlives
Member
Jonathan Morrin, the creative director, said there has been no degradation in quality from the 2012 trailer whatsoever. He specifically even said:
The only way for your argument to be true is that he was deliberately misleading people by saying in the back of his mind "little do they know the PS4 version looked like shit from the beginning". For all intents and purposes the E3 2012 demo was marketed as the standard one for next-gen consoles.
But at any rate, it's pointless to argue to such fine detail. Ubisoft already has a history of falsely marketing target renders as real gameplay with Far Cry 3.
Yeah, this thread took a turn I can't support.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Oooh oooh are we making this a Twitter thing? I love GAF activism (GAFtivism?) hehe
Symax
Member
From the article:
His statement is really vague. About what kind of "quality" is he talking there? This is clearly PR bulshit and i don't like his attitude. It cant be a graphical improvement. Digtal Foundry already proved that. Anyways this one is the official statement for now and the PC version seems to be superior:
It's more about disclosure than what he's saying, which is what was meant by the post he is supporting.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm not really sure when this became a thing but there was a time not long ago when developers would show off their games early and the final product would look as good or better than the reveal.
IIRC it seemed like this whole problem with bullshots and unrealistic target renders started during E3 2005 and 2006 as has gotten a ton worse over the last couple of years. It shouldn't be so hard to make an accurate approximation of what your game will look like once you're gotten it up running long enough to create a demo. It certainly shouldn't get worse looking as development continues either.
Drakendodertje
Member
What is it about:
"OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!"
you don't understand? Why are people prepared to bend over for these practices from publishers?
I think some are getting carried away and starting a campaign about an issue that isn't really as big as some think. Maybe if this problem was more widespread, I could get on with this. But I can't even think of that many games that have lied to this degree in the past few years. Going on twitter to complain about it:
1. Makes publishers less willing to release gameplay footage early
2. Makes us look silly (especially if the game isn't "downgraded")
3. Gives Neogaf a further bad name from people who already think we shouldn't be taken seriously.
4. Doesn't change anything because these trailers aren't made just for Neogaf.
I'm not closed minded. I can be convinced that the cause is valid; I'm just not seeing it.
Well:
(-> Dark Souls 2 downgradeaton thread has more)
There's also a thread about games with the biggest downgrades since reveal with some more examples: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780392
Saint Gregory
Member
I agree that this particular game is an extreme example (and may end up not being as downgraded as it appears) but we see a lot of games being misrepresented in previews in more subtle ways all the time. The most common is to show the game in videos and media running either at a higher resolution, higher framerate or sometimes both. Screen tearing, aliasing and other graphical imperfections are masked in trailers and the PC versions of games get shown at trade shows even when that version is scheduled to be released months after the consoles versions.
I think that these practices weren't a huge deal in the past because realistically most of us knew what the PS3 and 360 were capable of running so games that looked or performed at rates well beyond the norm were regarded with a grain of salt. But it seems like some developers really took advantage for people's expectations about next gen to oversell them on what the consoles would be capable of running at launch which is why we've reached the level of outrage you see here.
Based on your avatar, I don't think you're serious at all. Just trolling.
Burgerface
Neo Member
Totally agree, and this doesn't mean we don't want to see target renders. I still want companies to show us that stuff just label it correctly.
King Mac of Furry Frog
Member
What exactly is the point of that comparison video? Why would you compare a beefed up PC build to a console build? Did people seriously believe the PC and console versions would have equal fidelity?
Kibbles
Member
Wow straight up lying, no shame.
I'm at a point now where I'll just wait until the game releases, and then we can see whether they're lying or not.
Well:
(-> Dark Souls 2 downgradeaton thread has more)
There's also a thread about games with the biggest downgrades since reveal with some more examples: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780392
DS2's downgrade is fucking embarrassing.
I don't quite understand some of the animosity here. The 2012 demo was never stated as being for next gen, everyone knew it was running on PC's and that's that. At no point was it advertised as anything other than what it was. Also, it might have been slotted as a "next-gen" only title but the hardware specifics were not known other than basic targets.
They came up with what they did using guestimate targets and most likely, at some point, the bean counters figured out that doing next gen/PC would lower sales. So they scaled the game back graphically and lowered the scope so that it would still work with the PS3/360 and not have to double the work or make certain scenes nearly impossible. This is not the first time that has happened with a game.
So I don't get why people would be upset and calling for the ban of "target renders" as long as it's not being used to advertise the product currently. All that will happen is games will stop being shown in advance. This seems awfully similar to what happened to the mess that was Bioshock Infinite before it got cleaned up, scope reduced and actually shipped out. Sure, it wasn't representative of what was shown but at least the tone was right and the game turned out rather well IMO.
They came up with what they did using guestimate targets and most likely, at some point, the bean counters figured out that doing next gen/PC would lower sales. So they scaled the game back graphically and lowered the scope so that it would still work with the PS3/360 and not have to double the work or make certain scenes nearly impossible. This is not the first time that has happened with a game.
So I don't get why people would be upset and calling for the ban of "target renders" as long as it's not being used to advertise the product currently. All that will happen is games will stop being shown in advance. This seems awfully similar to what happened to the mess that was Bioshock Infinite before it got cleaned up, scope reduced and actually shipped out. Sure, it wasn't representative of what was shown but at least the tone was right and the game turned out rather well IMO.
Not sure why this deserves a hashtag campaign. It's not as if Ubisoft showed off a different version of the game up until release. They blatantly showed us how the current product is.
It's up to the buyer at that point to determine if it's up to a quality worth his or her 60 bucks. There's no lack of info here, no one's getting "tricked" out of any of their money.
It's up to the buyer at that point to determine if it's up to a quality worth his or her 60 bucks. There's no lack of info here, no one's getting "tricked" out of any of their money.
Pft, I hope so.
yeh but Dark Souls 1 port tho
SneakyStephan
Banned
well they promised they'd put a lot more effort in the pc port this time around
since the early demos and the stuff people played at events all had the new lighting it should really be in there on pc...
removing it on pc would be really arbitrary (for what? parity with 8+ year old consoles?... pfff)
the lighting added a lot to the atmosphere in the trailers, it would be a crying shame if it's not in the final version on pc
if they release this one with another framerate cap, low res post effects , no proper lighting etc then fuck em
I hope they do the right thing
What about your average consumers that don't do much research? All they know is Watch Dogs supposed to have this amazing next gen graphic, and then they buy the game, go home and play to discovered that's it's not what they thought it would be.
Sure they could do a better job at researching, but not everyone is like people on Gaf.
Yeah really, I've turned around on this a lot. I agree with everything you posted. Now the 2013 E3 demo, which doesn't look as good as the 2012 demo, was said to be running on a PS4 dev-kit. The footage we have now (and the Aisha Tyler trailer) certainly seems a lot worse than what we were told the PS4 was capable of, but if the creative dev said there is no downgrade -- then I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. But to be clear: they said that the E3 demo was running on PS4 hardware.
I don't agree with the twitter campaign because I don't agree with the cause. I'm not going to insult anyone pushing it, but this kind of thing has more negative effects on Neogaf, the internet, and videogame fans than it does positive.
grap3fruitman
Banned
So they didn't cancel the Wii U version after all?From the other thread:
I have no idea what the hell happened to this game.
If they didn't bother to do any research, they probably have no idea what it looked like in the first place and think that the new footage looks fine. But these are hypothetical situations we're talking about. If someone doesn't do their research before the purchase, and all the info is out, then congrats: they have total responsibility for what they purchased.
But I dunno, all of this is just so silly. I'm not saying ubi's in the right for downgrading anything, but at the same time the overreaction just seems so fierce. It's less of an outrage and more of a shame. Here's hoping the game will be great.
The bigger fear that I have is that if there's so much outrage over everything, it becomes easier to ignore it when there should be outrage. It's the boy who cried wolf scenario.
wtf..?
Cave Johnson
Member
So the solution is to stay by the sidelines and keep quiet? This kind of apathy will cause more harm than good. It not just the user that is affected right here, you are ignoring that the publisher that is reaping the rewards based on that "responsibility". You're deliberately trying to victimize consumers with goodwill instead of trying to plug the source of the problem. Might as well be waving your flag from the publisher defending such faulty practices because it's all about supporting them, right?
That's an arrogant statement, really. The game was shown off at the reveal of the new PlayStation, at E3 and in Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, three events that have a reach way beyond the typical hardcore gamer crowd. Meanwhile, the release date announcement trailer came and went last week. You have to browse gaming websites in particular to take notice of it. And not everyone's doing it, that's just the way it is. Don't blame the customer, man.
Even if you do see the trailer, you can be easily mislead because Ubisoft never clarified in the trailer which version they're showing off. That leads to YouTube comments on the story trailer like these:
The next thing the Average Joe will see of the game, though, will likely be TV ads and whatnot, to remind him, "Hey, that awesome game with tons of awards you saw at Jimmy Fallon? Yeah, that's coming out now, better rush to the store, bro!" And if there really was a downgrade in graphics to the degree we're fearing based on the footage released last week, you can bet your life on it that they won't tell you in these ads.
Funchameleon
Banned
Hint: The white car is not the player car
thebigmanjosh
Member
Not only did they say next gen but that it looked almost indistinguishable from the prerendered announcement trailer.
Hint: Is a sandbox. Every car is the player car XD
Skid 4 Dead
Member
nextgen #sham
ryanofcall
Member
So you're telling me... there are people who only liked watch_dogs for the graphics when it was first showed?
nelsonroyale
Member
How do you exactly know the original was pushing the PC to the max though? It seemed pretty smooth. I mean I don't see much in that footage which blows me away apart from the scripting, which won't be as smooth in the real game anyway. Lighting is good, but reminds me of Forza 5 with very high HDR. I mean I think it looks great, but there are better looking games in production than that initial reveal to me...
Atmosphere is really important to an open-world game, especially when most Ubisoft open world games are mediocre to bad in the gameplay/mission structure department.
Vinterbird
Member
Never. They are going to show PC or PS4 every single time.
We won't see how the last gen versions perform until they are out in shops.
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