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[Sentenza]

Relevant Excerpts from "Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis"

Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis
Characteristics of preferential sex offenders, a.k.a. "true" pedophiles:

Excessive Interest in Children: How much interest is excessive? This is a difficult question. The old adage, “If it sounds too good to be true, maybe it is” may apply here. If someone’s interest in children seems too good to be true, maybe it is. This is not proof that someone is a pedophile, but it is a reason to be suspicious [...] Parents/guardians should beware of anyone who wants to be with their children more than they do.​

​

Associates and Circle of Friends are Young: In addition to sexual activity, pedophiles frequently socialize with children and get involved in youth activities.​

​

Limited Peer Relationships: Because they cannot share the most important part of their life, their sexual interest in children, with most adults, pedophiles may have a limited number of close adult friends.​

​

Age and Gender Preference: Most pedophiles prefer children of a certain gender in a certain age range. In contrast to situational-type child molesters, “true” pedophiles seem to more often prefer boys.​

​

Identifies With Children (Better Than With Adults): Pedophiles usually have the ability to identify with children better than they do with adults – a trait that makes most pedophiles master seducers of children. They especially know how to listen to children. Many pedophiles are described as “pied pipers” who attract children.​

​

Access to Children: This is one of the most important indicators of a pedophile. The pedophile will almost always have a method of gaining access to children.​

​

Seduces With Attention, Affection, and Gifts: As repeatedly discussed this is the most common technique used by pedophiles. They literally seduce the children by befriending, talking to, listening to, paying attention to, spending time with, and buying gifts for them. If you understand this courtship process, it should not be difficult to understand why some child victims develop positive feelings for the offender. Many people can understand why an incest victim might not report his or her father, but they cannot understand why a victim not related to the offender does not immediately report molestation. There are many reasons for a victim not immediately reporting molestation but the results of the seduction process are often ignored or not understood at all.​

​

Skilled at Manipulating Children: In order to be involved in simultaneous sexual relations with multiple victims, a pedophile must know how to manipulate and control children. The pedophile uses seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the children. A skilled pedophile who can get children into a situation where they must change clothing or stay with him overnight will almost always succeed in seducing them.​

​

Hobbies and Interests Appealing to Children: This is another indicator that must be considered for evaluation only in connection with other indicators. Pedophiles might collect toys or dolls, build model planes or boats, or perform as clowns or magicians to attract children. A pedophile interested in older children might have a “hobby” involving the Internet, computers, alcohol, drugs, or pornography.​

​

Shows Sexually Explicit Material to Children: Any adult who shows sexually explicit material (e.g., “accidentally” leaves pornography in full view of the child when they visit) or tells “dirty jokes” to children of any age should be viewed with suspicion. This is generally part of the seduction process in order to lower inhibitions.​

​

Youth-Oriented Decorations in House: Pedophiles attracted to teenage boys might have their homes decorated the way a teenage boy would. This might include items such as toys, games, stereos, and posters of “rock stars.” The homes of some pedophiles have been described as shrines to children or as miniature amusement parks.​

Some other relevant quotes:

"Offender-Victim Bond: Because victims of acquaintance exploitation usually have been carefully seduced and often do not realize or believe they are victims, they repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender. Society and the criminal-justice system have a difficult time understanding this. If a boy is molested by his neighbor, teacher, or clergy member, why does he “allow” it to continue? Most likely he may not initially realize or believe he is a victim. Some victims are simply willing to trade sex for attention, affection, and gifts and do not believe they are victims. The sex itself might even be enjoyable. The offender may be treating them better than anyone has ever treated them. They may come to realize they are victims when the offender pushes them out. Then they recognize all the attention, affection, and gifts were just part of the master plan to use and exploit them. This may be the final blow for a troubled child who has had a difficult life. Most of these victims never disclose their victimization. As previously stated younger children may believe they did something “wrong” or “bad” and are afraid of getting into trouble. Older children may be more ashamed and embarrassed. Many victims not only do not disclose, but they strongly deny it happened when confronted. In one case several boys took the stand and testified concerning the high moral character of the accused molester. When the accused molester changed his plea to guilty, he admitted the boys who testified for him were also victims."​

...

"Many pedophiles spend their entire lives attempting to convince themselves and others they are not sexual perverts, but good guys who love and nurture children."​

...

"Such nice-guy offenders usually have strong needs to rationalize and validate their sexual behavior. This seems to be especially true of more intelligent, better educated individuals who molest children. Most of them seem to have an overwhelming need to convince, primarily themselves, the behavior they engaged in is not really sex, the child doesn’t understand or remember the activity and is therefore not harmed, this is an expression of love and caring, and/or they are entitled to this because of all the good they do. Their need to rationalize their sexual interests and behavior often leads them to be involved in “good works” that help troubled, needy children."​

...

"Many individuals do not prevent, recognize, or accept the sexual victimization of a child by a respected member of society because they cannot believe a man who is good and spiritual and who seems to truly care for children could be a child molester. Such offenders can be the Big Brother of the Year, most popular teacher, or best soccer coach. It is not uncommon for these offenders to be viewed as “child magnets” or “pied pipers” who have an extraordinary ability to relate to children and to whom many children are drawn.[...] Parents/guardians who desperately want their children to get good grades, become star athletes, get into modeling or show business, have an adult male role model, or have a good babysitter, may actually push their children toward such offenders."​

Found this on reddit today.
To summarize, the argument becomes: "Sure, Michael Jackson behaved like a textbook pedophile, but only up until he had boys alone in his bedroom."

 

[DForce]

Relevant Excerpts from "Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis"

At this point, you're just really desperate to label Jackson a pedophile.

It's ridiculous.

 

[DForce]

 

[Sentenza]

At this point, you're just really desperate to label Jackson a pedophile.

It's ridiculous.

Sure it is.

 

[DForce]

Sure it is.

Can all be easily debunked. This is just proof that you have done very little research. This is usually happens with people who accuser people of MJ being a pedophile

 

[Shodan09]

Relevant Excerpts from "Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis"

Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis
Characteristics of preferential sex offenders, a.k.a. "true" pedophiles:

Excessive Interest in Children: How much interest is excessive? This is a difficult question. The old adage, “If it sounds too good to be true, maybe it is” may apply here. If someone’s interest in children seems too good to be true, maybe it is. This is not proof that someone is a pedophile, but it is a reason to be suspicious [...] Parents/guardians should beware of anyone who wants to be with their children more than they do.​

​

Associates and Circle of Friends are Young: In addition to sexual activity, pedophiles frequently socialize with children and get involved in youth activities.​

​

Limited Peer Relationships: Because they cannot share the most important part of their life, their sexual interest in children, with most adults, pedophiles may have a limited number of close adult friends.​

​

Age and Gender Preference: Most pedophiles prefer children of a certain gender in a certain age range. In contrast to situational-type child molesters, “true” pedophiles seem to more often prefer boys.​

​

Identifies With Children (Better Than With Adults): Pedophiles usually have the ability to identify with children better than they do with adults – a trait that makes most pedophiles master seducers of children. They especially know how to listen to children. Many pedophiles are described as “pied pipers” who attract children.​

​

Access to Children: This is one of the most important indicators of a pedophile. The pedophile will almost always have a method of gaining access to children.​

​

Seduces With Attention, Affection, and Gifts: As repeatedly discussed this is the most common technique used by pedophiles. They literally seduce the children by befriending, talking to, listening to, paying attention to, spending time with, and buying gifts for them. If you understand this courtship process, it should not be difficult to understand why some child victims develop positive feelings for the offender. Many people can understand why an incest victim might not report his or her father, but they cannot understand why a victim not related to the offender does not immediately report molestation. There are many reasons for a victim not immediately reporting molestation but the results of the seduction process are often ignored or not understood at all.​

​

Skilled at Manipulating Children: In order to be involved in simultaneous sexual relations with multiple victims, a pedophile must know how to manipulate and control children. The pedophile uses seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the children. A skilled pedophile who can get children into a situation where they must change clothing or stay with him overnight will almost always succeed in seducing them.​

​

Hobbies and Interests Appealing to Children: This is another indicator that must be considered for evaluation only in connection with other indicators. Pedophiles might collect toys or dolls, build model planes or boats, or perform as clowns or magicians to attract children. A pedophile interested in older children might have a “hobby” involving the Internet, computers, alcohol, drugs, or pornography.​

​

Shows Sexually Explicit Material to Children: Any adult who shows sexually explicit material (e.g., “accidentally” leaves pornography in full view of the child when they visit) or tells “dirty jokes” to children of any age should be viewed with suspicion. This is generally part of the seduction process in order to lower inhibitions.​

​

Youth-Oriented Decorations in House: Pedophiles attracted to teenage boys might have their homes decorated the way a teenage boy would. This might include items such as toys, games, stereos, and posters of “rock stars.” The homes of some pedophiles have been described as shrines to children or as miniature amusement parks.​

Some other relevant quotes:

"Offender-Victim Bond: Because victims of acquaintance exploitation usually have been carefully seduced and often do not realize or believe they are victims, they repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender. Society and the criminal-justice system have a difficult time understanding this. If a boy is molested by his neighbor, teacher, or clergy member, why does he “allow” it to continue? Most likely he may not initially realize or believe he is a victim. Some victims are simply willing to trade sex for attention, affection, and gifts and do not believe they are victims. The sex itself might even be enjoyable. The offender may be treating them better than anyone has ever treated them. They may come to realize they are victims when the offender pushes them out. Then they recognize all the attention, affection, and gifts were just part of the master plan to use and exploit them. This may be the final blow for a troubled child who has had a difficult life. Most of these victims never disclose their victimization. As previously stated younger children may believe they did something “wrong” or “bad” and are afraid of getting into trouble. Older children may be more ashamed and embarrassed. Many victims not only do not disclose, but they strongly deny it happened when confronted. In one case several boys took the stand and testified concerning the high moral character of the accused molester. When the accused molester changed his plea to guilty, he admitted the boys who testified for him were also victims."​

...

"Many pedophiles spend their entire lives attempting to convince themselves and others they are not sexual perverts, but good guys who love and nurture children."​

...

"Such nice-guy offenders usually have strong needs to rationalize and validate their sexual behavior. This seems to be especially true of more intelligent, better educated individuals who molest children. Most of them seem to have an overwhelming need to convince, primarily themselves, the behavior they engaged in is not really sex, the child doesn’t understand or remember the activity and is therefore not harmed, this is an expression of love and caring, and/or they are entitled to this because of all the good they do. Their need to rationalize their sexual interests and behavior often leads them to be involved in “good works” that help troubled, needy children."​

...

"Many individuals do not prevent, recognize, or accept the sexual victimization of a child by a respected member of society because they cannot believe a man who is good and spiritual and who seems to truly care for children could be a child molester. Such offenders can be the Big Brother of the Year, most popular teacher, or best soccer coach. It is not uncommon for these offenders to be viewed as “child magnets” or “pied pipers” who have an extraordinary ability to relate to children and to whom many children are drawn.[...] Parents/guardians who desperately want their children to get good grades, become star athletes, get into modeling or show business, have an adult male role model, or have a good babysitter, may actually push their children toward such offenders."​

Found this on reddit today.
To summarize, the argument becomes: "Sure, Michael Jackson behaved like a textbook pedophile, but only up until he had boys alone in his bedroom."

Good job being done with the thread.

Edit: to make this comment more worthwhile, can you point out which of those things you think apply to Jackson and any supporting evidence?

 

[Sentenza]

Good job being done with the thread.

Edit: to make this comment more worthwhile, can you point out which of those things you think apply to Jackson and any supporting evidence?

The entire thing matches virtually word for word both his behavior and the one of his victims.
Oh, sorry, "the money-hungry liars!!!!!11!!!"

 

[DForce]

Excessive Interest in Children

: How much interest is excessive? This is a difficult question. The old adage, “If it sounds too good to be true, maybe it is” may apply here. If someone’s interest in children seems too good to be true, maybe it is. This is not proof that someone is a pedophile, but it is a reason to be suspicious [...] Parents/guardians should beware of anyone who wants to be with their children more than they do.

Excessive? No. His excessive interest is helping kids in need, such as visiting children in the hospital, which many adults do today.

He had Neverland Ranch, but most of the time he wasn't even there.

Associates and Circle of Friends are Young:

In addition to sexual activity, pedophiles frequently socialize with children and get involved in youth activities.

Limited Peer Relationships: Because they cannot share the most important part of their life, their sexual interest in children, with most adults, pedophiles may have a limited number of close adult friends.

Age and Gender Preference: Most pedophiles prefer children of a certain gender in a certain age range. In contrast to situational-type child molesters, “true” pedophiles seem to more often prefer boys.

Here Michael Jackson talks about wanting a girlfriend and being in love with Diana. He was heart broken when she didn't like him back. This took him years to get over.


He never had a limited of close adult friends.

Identifies With Children (Better Than With Adults):

Pedophiles usually have the ability to identify with children better than they do with adults – a trait that makes most pedophiles master seducers of children. They especially know how to listen to children. Many pedophiles are described as “pied pipers” who attract children.

As for as some of his interest, yet most of his friends were adults.

One of several of his friends talk about their close friendship.

Access to Children:

This is one of the most important indicators of a pedophile. The pedophile will almost always have a method of gaining access to children.

Wade Robson, Gavin Arvizo, James Safechuck were all contacted by the parents.

Jordan Chandler? According to his mother, all four of their family members spent time to gether and his mother was with him a lot.

June Chandler

25 Q. And did you spend time with Mr. Jackson?

26 A. Yes, I did.

27 Q. Did you spend a lot of time with Mr.

28 Jackson?


5608






1 A. Yes.

What you fail to accept that the Arvizo family stayed with Michael Jackson.


Wade Robson? He was in a 7 year relationship with Jackson's niece. Anyone who claims to have been manipulating don't want to accept this.

Seduces With Attention, Affection, and Gifts:

As repeatedly discussed this is the most common technique used by pedophiles. They literally seduce the children by befriending, talking to, listening to, paying attention to, spending time with, and buying gifts for them. If you understand this courtship process, it should not be difficult to understand why some child victims develop positive feelings for the offender. Many people can understand why an incest victim might not report his or her father, but they cannot understand why a victim not related to the offender does not immediately report molestation. There are many reasons for a victim not immediately reporting molestation but the results of the seduction process are often ignored or not understood at all.

He was actually a very generous person.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly5GqrQPvhI

Skilled at Manipulating Children:

In order to be involved in simultaneous sexual relations with multiple victims, a pedophile must know how to manipulate and control children. The pedophile uses seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the children. A skilled pedophile who can get children into a situation where they must change clothing or stay with him overnight will almost always succeed in seducing them.

Turns out those threats were fake claimed by James Safechuck and Wade Robson.

Wade and James were never pressured or threatened to testify. Based on the Private Investigator, Wade volunteered and he wasn't originally going to be the first witness.

Hobbies and Interests Appealing to Children:

This is another indicator that must be considered for evaluation only in connection with other indicators. Pedophiles might collect toys or dolls, build model planes or boats, or perform as clowns or magicians to attract children. A pedophile interested in older children might have a “hobby” involving the Internet, computers, alcohol, drugs, or pornography.

Many adult men collect and have video games in their house.

Jackson's prized collection did not interest children, they were large dolls. This would also contradict the fact that he was into boys

Shows Sexually Explicit Material to Children:

Any adult who shows sexually explicit material (e.g., “accidentally” leaves pornography in full view of the child when they visit) or tells “dirty jokes” to children of any age should be viewed with suspicion. This is generally part of the seduction process in order to lower inhibitions.

Never showed explicit magazines to children. According to Culkin, he wouldn't even talk about these things around them.

Youth-Oriented Decorations in House:

Pedophiles attracted to teenage boys might have their homes decorated the way a teenage boy would. This might include items such as toys, games, stereos, and posters of “rock stars.” The homes of some pedophiles have been described as shrines to children or as miniature amusement parks.

Teenage boys do not have doll collections. You can spin a narrative by saying he has a collection to attract boys, which can be applied to a lot of adult men in their 30s today.


This is short, but I know you won't read it and you will not accept anything that disproves your false accusations.

 

[gamerMan]

Relevant Excerpts from "Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis"

Thanks for adding to this discussion. I am so glad we can have a discussion on the discussion board.

Oh shit, say it ain't so. Barney and Big Bird must be child molesters.

It's interesting because they actually had a child psychologist testify in the 2005 molestation case and he concluded Jackson exhibited no signs of a pedophile. "A child psychologist to testify in Michael Jackson's trial told police that the star "doesn't really qualify as a pedophile. He's really just this regressed 10-year-old." source .

I remember reading this on ABC news years ago and it has been removed since.

So why are Safechuck and Robson more believable than Jordi Chandler and Gavin Arvizo? Especially considering that Robson testified under oath he was never abused.

I totally understand why people believe Wade and James. It all comes down to the Martin Bashir interview where Jackson suggested that it is the most loving thing to share your bed with a child. Nevermind he said that he slept on the floor. The damage was done. This behavior is so outside of social norms. Then the media shows pictures of hanging out with boys holding their hands very tightly wherever he was photographed along with letters and phone calls. Add this to the fact that he completely destroyed his face using cosmetic surgery. It's so easy to paint him as a monster. All you need is an accusation to confirm what was right in front of our face all along.

Then Jackson's insurance company pays off a boy for 20 million. The lawsuit was brought out at a time that Jackson was in the middle of his tour. The insurance company made the decision it was better to pay the money, then have Jackson cancel the tour. Jackson was convinced into accepting this. Never mind he didn't want his genitals broadcast on television and they have an extortion tape of the father, for most people it was an admission of guilt.

The argument becomes why is Jackson spending hundreds of hours sleeping with hundreds of boys? If Joe the Smoe Plumber did that, we wouldn't think twice. The only reason people are giving Jackson a pass is because he sang Billie Jean. I mean after all what is Jackson getting out of this? Humans never do anything without wanting something in return.

Jackson was not Joe the Smoe Plumber. People try to box him in into the life of a "normal" pedophile. He was not normal. He was arguably the most talented artist of all time, but this came at a steep price. Jackson's mind had to be completely broken to achieve this stardom. This is what made him Michael Jackson. His entire brain got rewired. He stopped living for himself because no amount of money would ever fix him. Jackson's whole life revolved around helping kids with getting nothing in return except acceptance and a chance to relive his childhood through them. He wanted desperately to be normal and not Michael Jackson.

Contrary to what the media says, he didn't spend most of his time fucking boys. When he wasn't doing concerts, he spent hundreds and thousands of hours helping sick, burned, and disavantaged kids. People like to focus on his relationship with children but there are so many other aspects of his life that were not normal. I can't list all the crazy things Michael has done in his life, but would Joe the Smoe The Plumber do these things:

• Give the investigators who are examining his genitals fucking goddamn dinner. I guess he is "grooming" them.
• Pay for a liver transplant for a random person.
• Pay for funeral services of people he has never met.
• Visit burn victims and donate his entire settlement from Pepsi to helping burn victims.

Watch the body of language of Michael Jackson with children and tell me it's not real and he is "grooming" the world:




None of this is fucking "normal". For me, its not what he did on stage. It's what he did off the stage. I'm not saying doing all these good things makes him innocent, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see evidence to suggest otherwise. Could he have done it? Yes. But other than these two accusers who are suing for millions of dollars and a handful of others who have been discredited in court because of very inconsistent testimony, all the other kids who are coming out have said quite the opposite.

 

[cryptoadam]

gamerMan in regards to Safechuk/Robson being believed, it was in response to everyone cancelling MJ now.

I find it very hypocritical that all of a sudden people will stop playing his music, remove his statues, pull episodes of him when these types of accusations have been there for 25+ years. And Wade/James came out in 2013, 6 years ago, yet no one stopped anything.

Its only now that some people decided the line was crossed. It makes no sense. So with Chandler and Avizo and Guitterez and any one else who came out they weren't believable enough to cancel MJ, but Wade 6 years later is? Why wasn't MJ cancelled 6 years ago when Wade did his first interview and court case?

Was Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck so compelling, so honest looking that it completly destroyed any other accusers accusations, even the same 2 men who made these accusations 6 years ago?

For me Wade and Jimmy are conmen liars and I hope they get exposed. Maybe Jackson did molest children maybe he didnt, no court has been able to prove it, nor has the FBI. He must have meet/hang around 100's if not 1000's of kids yet all we have are some accusations that he was acquited from, and Wade and Jimmy. What about the other 99.99% of kids he was with? Why hasn't anyone else come out along with Wade and Jimmy? MJ has been dead for a decade now there is no reason for anyone to hide it anymore.

 

[gamerMan]

gamerMan in regards to Safechuk/Robson being believed, it was in response to everyone cancelling MJ now.
Its only now that some people decided the line was crossed. It makes no sense.

I think it's really because we are in the #MeToo Era. On the surface, these claims are pretty preposterous. In any other Era, these stories would only be in the tabloids. I had sex with Michael Jackson hundreds of times in every room of his house on the train, in the castle, and in the arcade. Oh sorry, I had a memory lapse. Maybe we didn't do it in those places but we did it in plenty of others. The rooms don't matter. He bought his Neverland Ranch just for me.

He diddled my butt and made it bleed, but luckily for him I tossed the underwear. I didn't speak because I loved every moment of it until now. He's a serial pedophile and slept with hundreds of boys. He only loved young boys but he can fondle your mind when you are a teen so you don't remember that he fucked you as a teen too. He has super mind control "grooming" so he put me on the stand as the first witness.

The other ridiculous part is since they have now moved the date of Jimmy's abuse, it overlaps not only with Brett Barnes but with Chandler and Robson. So he's fucking at least 3 boys hundreds of times during the same time period. I thought Jackson moved from one boy to the next. No sorry that was a mistake. He didn't actually replace boys. He just made them think that with his grooming powers and his dick was a fucking machine gun. And get this he did all this while he was being investigated.

Come the fuck on. On paper, it sounds absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Falcs]

So fucking sad what the world did to MJ. Drove him to an early grave with all this bullshit. He did so much good. He left the world better than when he came into it. Not only what he gave with his talents, but all the good things he did for charities and sick kids and people.
And for thanks we call him a sick pedo and even after 10 years after his death people are still making up all this bullshit.
The world didn't deserve Michael.

 

[Shodan09]

The entire thing matches virtually word for word both his behavior and the one of his victims.
Oh, sorry, "the money-hungry liars!!!!!11!!!"

I think the main problem with this is that it's an analysis of people who were molesters and also exhibited these behaviours. Even if what you say was true there's no reason to say that anyone who exhibits these behaviours is grooming without any evidence.

It's kind of like saying someone fits the profile of a murderer but hasn't actually killed anyone. Without any evidence of a crime being committed it's just speculation.

 

[Sentenza]

I think the main problem with this is that it's an analysis of people who were molesters and also exhibited these behaviours. Even if what you say was true there's no reason to say that anyone who exhibits these behaviours is grooming without any evidence.

It's kind of like saying someone fits the profile of a murderer but hasn't actually killed anyone. Without any evidence of a crime being committed it's just speculation.

Well, first things first, that's not "Whay I say", I didn't write that report.
Second, your analogy is terrible. You are basically saying "He may fit the profile of a criminal to a T, but there's no sign any crime even happened". Which is false, given than five different children accused him of sexual abuse.
A more appropriate way to put your argument would be "He may fit the profile of a murderer and five witnesses swear to have seen him stabbing the victim, but since the latter went missing, there's no corpse and we haven't him on tape doing it, nothing probably happened".

 

[gamerMan]

So fucking sad what the world did to MJ. Drove him to an early grave with all this bullshit. He did so much good. He left the world better than when he came into it. Not only what he gave with his talents, but all the good things he did for charities and sick kids and people.
And for thanks we call him a sick pedo and even after 10 years after his death people are still making up all this bullshit.
The world didn't deserve Michael.

As Emmanuel Lewis said:


Also what is wrong with Dan Reed. He must be mentally sick to create the troll account MJ Victims on social media. He accidentally uploaded the wrong image to his real account. I wouldn't be surprise if he turned out to be a child molester. Very strange behavior.


For me it's sad when I go on social media and see people call him a monster. I wish Michael Jackson was never famous but if you ever needed proof that you can live on after life, Michael Jackson is it.

One of my favorite songs ever is Childhood because he captured all of his pain in a song. It's a song about acceptance and the pain of being different. As a burn victim, I can't even make it all the way through that song because that song means so much to me. People who are different, weird, and strange can change the world because they don't think like anybody else. Michael Jackson doesn't fit in any box. He's not in the dictionary. While he was hopelessly flawed, Michael Jackson was the man in the mirror.

 

[Shodan09]

Well, first things first, that's not "Whay I say", I didn't write that report.
Second, your analogy is terrible. You are basically saying "He may fit the profile of a criminal to a T, but there's no sign any crime even happened". Which is false, given than five different children accused him of sexual abuse.
A more appropriate way to put your argument would be "He may fit the profile of a murderer and five witnesses swear to have seen him stabbing the victim, but since the latter went missing, there's no corpse and we haven't him on tape doing it, nothing probably happened".

Your analogy needs some work. If you'll allow me:
Let's add in the fact that the 'witnesses' previously said they didn't see the murder but then changed their mind when it became clear they could both alleviate their financial problems if they DID see the murder.

Let's add in that one witness says he saw the murder occur in a building that wouldn't be built for another two years.

Let's add in the fact that the first witnesses father was recorded on phone saying that if he goes through with his plan he will be rich and the alleged murderer will be destroyed personally and professionally.

Let's add in the fact that the murder has been investigated, gone to court, and the alleged perpetrator has been found resoundingly not guilty a full month before the trial was set to end.

The point is, a person could fit any and all of the criteria in your post I responded to, but if they didn't commit the crime, they didn't commit the crime. It's extremely dangerous to say that because a person does X, Y and Z that they must be guilty of 1, 2, and 3 particularly if you take into account the details I have included in this post.

 

[Shodan09]

As Emmanuel Lewis said:


Also what is wrong with Dan Reed. He must be mentally sick to create the troll account MJ Victims on social media. He accidentally uploaded the wrong image to his real account. I wouldn't be surprise if he turned out to be a child molester. Very strange behavior.


For me it's sad when I go on social media and see people call him a monster. I wish Michael Jackson was never famous but if you ever needed proof that you can live on after life, Michael Jackson is it.

One of my favorite songs ever is Childhood because he captured all of his pain in a song. It's a song about acceptance and the pain of being different. As a burn victim, I can't even make it all the way through that song because that song means so much to me. People who are different, weird, and strange can change the world because they don't think like anybody else. Michael Jackson doesn't fit in any box. He's not in the dictionary. While he was hopelessly flawed, Michael Jackson was the man in the mirror.

To be fair, I'm seeing far more people calling the documentary out on its inconsistencies than I am calling anyone a monster.

When something is this poorly researched and this quickly rushed out, the shakey foundations will inevitably crumble.

That Dan Reed twitter slip up is hilarious, he's so passionate about the fact that he supposedly doesn't care about Michael Jackson, he must be absolutely livid at the amount of catastrophic errors people are finding in his magnum opus.

 

[Jon Neu]

The world didn't deserve Michael.

On that we agree.

 

[Jon Neu]

But other than these two accusers who are suing for millions of dollars and a handful of others who have been discredited in court because of very inconsistent testimony, all the other kids who are coming out have said quite the opposite.

You forgot the kid who was given millions to stop the trial.

Pedos are smart. MJ would not rape every child he had in his bedroom, I'm sure he had only a very few chances of doing the sexual approach while feeling safe and that it will not backfire on him. That's why "only" 5 kids have accused him.

For pedos, grooming a kid is a very long, careful and calculated process. They want to obviously get away with it, so they don't rush it and try to avoid risks and mistakes as much as they can.

By the way, does anybody remember that time MJ shook "his" baby child on a balcony?



That is "how much" he cared about children.

 

[DForce]

You forgot the kid who was given millions to stop the trial.

Pedos are smart. MJ would not rape every child he had in his bedroom, I'm sure he had only a very few chances of doing the sexual approach while feeling safe and that it will not backfire on him. That's why "only" 5 kids have accused him.

For pedos, grooming a kid is a very long, careful and calculated process. They want to obviously get away with it, so they don't rush it and try to avoid risks and mistakes as much as they can.

By the way, does anybody remember that time MJ shook "his" baby child on a balcony?



That is "how much" he cared about children.

It's been stated million of times that Jordan Chandler wasn't paid millions to keep quiet.

The more you guys keep pushing this narrative, just proves that you guys don't bother doing research.

 

[Jon Neu]

It's been stated million of times that Jordan Chandler wasn't paid millions to keep quiet.

The more you guys keep pushing this narrative, just proves that you guys don't bother doing research.

Sorry, but MJ fanatics such as yourself have very little credibility.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012100...kson-s-neverland-jackson-settlement?_s=PM:LAW

 

[Jon Neu]

By the way, seems nobody remembers when LaToya Jackson basically confirmed that her brother was a pedophile.

She said: 'Now you stop and think for one second and you tell me, what 35-year-old man is going to take a little boy and stay with him for 30 days?

'And take another boy and stay with him for five days in a room and never leave the room? How many of you out there are 35 years old?

'How many would take little kids and do that? That are nine, 10, 11 years old? I love my brother but it's wrong. I don't want to see these kids hurt.'

 

[DForce]

Sorry, but MJ fanatics such as yourself have very little credibility.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012100...kson-s-neverland-jackson-settlement?_s=PM:LAW

There was a CIVIL case and CRIMINAL case.

Michael Jackson Settles Suit For Sum Said to Be in Millions - 1994

Regarding that investigation, District Attorney Gil Garcetti of Los Angeles County said today that Larry Feldman, the boy's lawyer, had not ruled out having the youngster testify. "Nobody has bought anyone's silence," Mr. Feldman said. Prosecutor's Statement

In a terse statement, Mr. Garcetti said: "The criminal investigation of singer Michael Jackson is ongoing and will not be affected by the announcement of the civil case settlement. The District Attorney's office is taking Mr. Feldman at his word that the alleged victim will be allowed to testify and that there has been no agreement in the civil matter that will affect cooperation in the criminal investigation."

Jackson wanted to postpone the civil lawsuit until after the criminal proceeding but they wouldn't allow it. He made this motion multiple times and he was denied.


You clearly lack credibility and I'm sure you won't acknowledge the fact that just showed me and everyone else in this thread that you don't know what you're even talking about.

 

[DForce]

By the way, seems nobody remembers when LaToya Jackson basically confirmed that her brother was a pedophile.

She said: 'Now you stop and think for one second and you tell me, what 35-year-old man is going to take a little boy and stay with him for 30 days?

'And take another boy and stay with him for five days in a room and never leave the room? How many of you out there are 35 years old?

'How many would take little kids and do that? That are nine, 10, 11 years old? I love my brother but it's wrong. I don't want to see these kids hurt.'

She didn't. She later said her husband forced her to make those claims against MJ, even having her post for playboy.

 

[Jon Neu]

There was a CIVIL case and CRIMINAL case.




Jackson wanted to postpone the civil lawsuit until after the criminal proceeding but they wouldn't allow it. He made this motion multiple times and he was denied.


You clearly lack credibility and I'm sure you won't acknowledge the fact that just showed me and everyone else in this thread that you don't know what you're even talking about.

Again, MJ settled the case by giving 20 millions. The procedure continued, but when you buy the accusers, you don't have anything else to fear anymore.

The fact that you try to defend that already shows that you don't have any credibility when it comes to your beloved creepy man that sleeped with children.

She didn't. She later said her husband forced her to make those claims against MJ, even having her post for playboy.

What a nice coincidence, she didn't wanted to make those claims at all, she was just "forced".

But she wasn't forced by her family to retract herself, of course.

 

[DForce]

Again, MJ settled the case by giving 20 millions. The procedure continued, but when you buy the accusers, you don't have anything else to fear anymore.

The fact that you try to defend that already shows that you don't have any credibility when it comes to your beloved creepy man that sleeped with children.



What a nice coincidence, she didn't wanted to make those claims at all, she was just "forced".

But she wasn't forced by her family to retract herself, of course.

Dude, you're lying. You said he paid million to stop the trail.

Tell me, how did he stop the criminal investigation?

What a nice coincidence, she didn't wanted to make those claims at all, she was just "forced".

But she wasn't forced by her family to retract herself, of course.

It was her words. Why don't the alleged victims say she witness the abuse?

Want to tell she didn't witness Chandler, Safechuck and Wade's abuse?

 

[Jon Neu]

Dude, you're lying. You said he paid million to stop the trail.

Tell me, how did he stop the criminal investigation?

By paying 20 millions to the accusers and making the rest of the procedure basically a burocratic farce?

That's why he payed the 20 millions, otherwise he would not have paid them.

It was her words. Why don't the alleged victims say she witness the abuse?

Want to tell she didn't witness Chandler, Safechuck and Wade's abuse?

She didn't said she witnessed the abuse. But I'm sorry for you, she knows her brother better than you.

She asked the proper questions and basically confirmed what everybody else with a shred of a brain knows. You don't spend 5 days without leaving the bedroom that you share with a small child that you don't know if it's not because you are a pedo.

 

[DForce]

By paying 20 millions to the accusers and making the rest of the procedure basically a burocratic farce?

That's why he payed the 20 millions, otherwise he would not have paid them.



She didn't said she witnessed the abuse. But I'm sorry for you, she knows her brother better than you.

She asked the proper questions and basically confirmed what everybody else with a shred of a brain knows. You don't spend 5 days without leaving the bedroom that you share with a small child that you don't know if it's not because you are a pedo.

You're deflecting. How did the settlement stop the criminal investigation?

She didn't witness the abuse?

Then how does she know?

LOL.

How was Jordan Chandler lured by Michael Jackson?

 

[Jon Neu]

You're deflecting.

How did the settlement stop the criminal investigation?

By buying the accusers with 20 millions?

In this cases, the most important part is the testimony of the accusers. If you got them in your pocket, then you don't have anything to fear.

That's why his insurance company paid them 20 millions.

I'm pretty sure, sooner or later you are actually going to understand it.

She didn't witness the abuse?

Then how does she know?

I'm sure you know more about MJ's private life than his sister.

Or at least you wish that was true, LOL

 

[Shodan09]

By paying 20 millions to the accusers and making the rest of the procedure basically a burocratic farce?

That's why he payed the 20 millions, otherwise he would not have paid them.



She didn't said she witnessed the abuse. But I'm sorry for you, she knows her brother better than you.

She asked the proper questions and basically confirmed what everybody else with a shred of a brain knows. You don't spend 5 days without leaving the bedroom that you share with a small child that you don't know if it's not because you are a pedo.

Jackson didn't pay shit. His insurance company paid out to keep him earning money on tour. He fully intented to fight the charges in the criminal case but the family ceased all legal proceedings after they got paid.

LaToya was in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship with a man at the time she gave the interviews you mention. She was forced to say it by her partner as that's where the money and headlines were.

 

[DForce]

By buying the accusers with 20 millions?

In this cases, the most important part is the testimony of the accusers. If you got them in your pocket, then you don't have anything to fear.

That's why his insurance company paid them 20 millions.

I'm pretty sure, sooner or later you are actually going to understand it.

You said it stopped.

You lied.

Why did they pursue a civil case and not a criminal case?

I'm sure you know more about MJ's private life than his sister.

Or at least you wish that was true, LOL

More deflections.

How did she know he abuse them if she didn't witness it?

"You're telling me you know more about MJ's private life than his sister?"

This doesn't work. If she knew he was abusing these kids, then she would have to witness it. You stepped on your own foot by saying she didn't witness it.

 

[Shodan09]

Looks like we got another Dan Reed over here with the lack of research and self contradictory statements.

 

[Jon Neu]

Jackson didn't pay shit. His insurance company paid out to keep him earning money on tour. He fully intented to fight the charges in the criminal case but the family ceased all legal proceedings after they got paid.

He made others take the credit so he later can claim that they did it "against his will".

It's a pretty common PR movement when someone settles and his honor is in doubt.

LaToya was in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship with a man at the time she gave the interviews you mention. She was forced to say it by her partner as that's where the money and headlines were.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

LaToya could win much more money just by being around and being supportive of his multibillionaire family than just supossedly saying something to a magazine because her husband forced her to.

She just said what another sane person would say regarding the evidence. With the difference that she knows her brother better than almost anybody. And she didn't doubt that MJ was a scarred human being with an unhealty obsession with children. She didn't doubt that he was a pedophile.

But again, another happy coincidence for the MJ fans.

I'm deflecting by saying that you are deflecting.

That's impressive.

 

[DForce]

That's impressive.

I'm asking you tough questions and you don't have an answer for them.

Why did they go for civil case instead of a criminal case?

How did Michael Jackson lure and then groom Jordan Chandler?

How did his sister know she abuse children if she did not witness it?

 

[Jon Neu]

Looks like we got another Dan Reed over here with the lack of research and self contradictory statements.

Oh, the MJ fans are going to talk to each other in a childish attempt to win the argument by trying to gang on me. How beautiful.

I don't blame you. It has to be hard being a fanatic of MJ while trying to defend all the shit he made.

 

[DForce]

Looks like we got another Dan Reed over here with the lack of research and self contradictory statements.

I keep seeing this all over the internet.. They're really misinformed and reply heavily on assumptions and not facts.

 

[Jon Neu]

I'm asking you tough questions and you don't have an answer for them.

Why did they go for civil case instead of a criminal case?

How did Michael Jackson lure and then groom Jordan Chandler?

How did his sister know she abuse children if she did not witness it?

You are just deflecting my questions.

Why did the insurance company paid 20 millions in the name of MJ to settle the case?

How did Michael Jackson slept with so many unknown children, yet he wasn't a pedo?

How is that her sister bought 100% that he was a pedo and asked the proper questions?

I keep seeing this all over the internet.. They're really misinformed and reply heavily on assumptions and not facts.

This is especially funny and yet again ironic coming from the people who are literally emotionally invested in MJ.

 

[DForce]

You are just deflecting my questions.

Why did the insurance company paid 20 millions in the name of MJ to settle the case?

You're doing it again. I will answer your questions one by one and then you have to answer mine directly.

They waited when Michael Jackson was on tour to file the civil case, which did not stop the criminal investigation. After many attempts to postpone the civil case until AFTER the criminal case, his lawyers wanted him to settle.

The fact that he wanted to go through a criminal case shows that he knows it was BS. This also helps the fact that the accuser's father was caught on tape trying to extort money from Michael Jackson.

How did Michael Jackson slept with so many unknown children, yet he wasn't a pedo?

Only ones who have come forward wanted money.

He never slept in the same bed with Gavin. He shared his bed, but he slept on the floor.

How is that her sister bought 100% that he was a pedo and asked the proper questions?

She was never a witness to the alleged acts, which you admit.

She said she was abused and she threatened to have her family killed.

This is especially funny and yet again ironic coming from the people who are literally emotionally invested in MJ.

It's funny how people like you are so adamant hat he's a pedophile, but you're afraid to answer questions.


Now answer these questions

How does his sister know these kids were abused if she didn't witness it?

You said the 20 million dollar settlement stopped the trail. How did it stop when they were still doing a criminal investigation?

Why did the pursue a civil case and not a criminal one?

How did Michael Jackson find, groomed and then abuse Jordan Chandler?

Were witness lying when they witnessed Evan Chandler plotting to set up Michael Jackson?

 

[cryptoadam]

You forgot the kid who was given millions to stop the trial.

Pedos are smart. MJ would not rape every child he had in his bedroom, I'm sure he had only a very few chances of doing the sexual approach while feeling safe and that it will not backfire on him. That's why "only" 5 kids have accused him.

For pedos, grooming a kid is a very long, careful and calculated process. They want to obviously get away with it, so they don't rush it and try to avoid risks and mistakes as much as they can.

.

So MJ the genius pedo and groomer decided to put on the stand in 2005 as his 1st Defense witness a kid he abused for 7 years over and over again multiple times?

I thought Pedo's were smart? Why would MJ do something so stupid? Why would he put 22 year old Wade up there risking his entire life and legacy on this kid?

 

[DForce]

Michael Jackson came in contact with the Chandler family when Michael Jackson's car broke down near Rent-A-Wreck.

Mel Green was an employee for Rent-A-Wreck and verified through his wife that it was indeed Michael Jackson in the broken down car.

The Rent-A-Wreck was owned by David Schwartz, Jordan Chandler's step father.

David called his wife, June Chandler, to come down and bring Jordan Chandler with her because he had a big surprise (Jordan was a huge MJ fan).



Here is when things start to get weird

The conversation lasted about 10-20 minutes, but after that conversation, June Chandler wanted Michael to take their number.

Mel Green (Rent-A-Wreck employee) described it like this.

Mel Green 1994

It was almost like she (June) was forcing [the boy] on him,” “I think Michael thought he owed the boy something, and that’s when it all started.

Jordan was was given a story by his step father about how he tried to get Michael Jackson to call him.

My stepfather took him [Michael] outside to choose a car for him to use. And I guess when my stepfather was outside he said, ‘You don’t have to pay for the car if you just take Jordie’s number and give him a call’

Evan Chandler helped write the screenplay Robin Hood: Men in Tights.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107977/

He requested to business partners after the Sony deal. He also wanted $20 million dollars to help fund his movie.

Jackson refused and this is when Evan Chandler orchestrated the plot to extort millions from Michael Jackson.


There's LONG taped conversation between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz, but here is where you can see that it wasn't about justice, it was about money.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help –
7 MR. CHANDLER: — Michael the career
8 will be over.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be
11 over.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help
13 Jordy?
14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s silly. No.
6 Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there.
7 He’s the main one. He’s the one I want.

This article goes into great detail about the extortion attempt and the conversation between Chandler and Schwartz is very long.

If Jordan Chandler was really molested, then why would he go straight for the money instead of going straight to the police?

Why would he drug his child and right after he wakes up, he asks him if he was molested by Michael Jackson?

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/history-vs-evanstory-the-1993-allegations-part-1/

All of this doesn't raise any red flags, but settling for 20 million dollars does? lol

 

[cryptoadam]

Michael Jackson came in contact with the Chandler family when Michael Jackson's car broke down near Rent-A-Wreck.

Mel Green was an employee for Rent-A-Wreck and verified through his wife that it was indeed Michael Jackson in the broken down car.

The Rent-A-Wreck was owned by David Schwartz, Jordan Chandler's step father.

David called his wife, June Chandler, to come down and bring Jordan Chandler with her because he had a big surprise (Jordan was a huge MJ fan).



Here is when things start to get weird

The conversation lasted about 10-20 minutes, but after that conversation, June Chandler wanted Michael to take their number.

Mel Green (Rent-A-Wreck employee) described it like this.

Mel Green 1994


Jordan was was given a story by his step father about how he tried to get Michael Jackson to call him.




Evan Chandler helped write the screenplay Robin Hood: Men in Tights.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107977/

He requested to business partners after the Sony deal. He also wanted $20 million dollars to help fund his movie.

Jackson refused and this is when Evan Chandler orchestrated the plot to extort millions from Michael Jackson.


There's LONG taped conversation between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz, but here is where you can see that it wasn't about justice, it was about money.



This article goes into great detail about the extortion attempt and the conversation between Chandler and Schwartz is very long.

If Jordan Chandler was really molested, then why would he go straight for the money instead of going straight to the police?

Why would he drug his child and right after he wakes up, he asks him if he was molested by Michael Jackson?

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/history-vs-evanstory-the-1993-allegations-part-1/

All of this doesn't raise any red flags, but settling for 20 million dollars does? lol

as far as I heard MJ didn't want to settle it was his insurance that settled?

 

[DForce]

as far as I heard MJ didn't want to settle it was his insurance that settled?

Yeah, he didn't want to settle.

Evan Chandler tried to sue Jackson again for 60 million but that case was thrown out. Thomas Mesereau was not Jackson's lawyer at the time, but he has gone on record by saying that this has "opened Pandora's box" because it allowed other people to come forward and make claims against Michael Jackson.

 

[sol_bad]

What a nice coincidence, she didn't wanted to make those claims at all, she was just "forced".

But she wasn't forced by her family to retract herself, of course.

And Chuckhead and Wilson weren't forced by their families to do the documentary to make money and to try and make more money from the Jackson Estate.
hmmmm

 

[Falcs]

Wow...
Jon Neu , you just got massively shot down.

Unless you can answer Dforce's questions, it's not even worth you posting in this thread again.

 

[gamerMan]

You forgot the kid who was given millions to stop the trial.

Earlier I said this was one of the reasons that people feel Michael Jackson was guilty. This payment was done by the insurance company. Michael Jackson was in the middle of his tour and they didn't want to cancel the tour to fight this in court. Michael initially wanted to fight this but he also didn't want his genitals paraded around on television. Michael finally agreed to this. It ended up being the biggest mistake because many people now point to this as an admission of guilt. I mean you read the headline "Michael Jackson Pays Off Accuser" and it seems like a slam dunk right.

But then this extortion audio emerges:



I respect your opinion. I'll say it again: I don't know if Michael Jackson molested kids. He could have. The amazing thing in this case, you can never find evidence that he did anything wrong. He was investigated by the FBI and even had his day in court. However, you will find evidence that all of the accusers are lying. Each and everyone of them.

I'm not blindly defending Michael Jackson. I don't know if this is true for other people in this thread, but there was a point even I believed he may have molested kids. If all you read is the headlines, it is easy to come to this conclusion. The more you start looking into Michael Jackson's life, the more you will find that he probably didn't do anything he was accused of.

The other weird thing about this case is how irrational people are on both sides. Even though things don't make sense rationally, they try to bend reality to fit it into their beliefs. What I love about this thread is that people are not just saying Michael Jackson didn't do it because he was a kind humanitarian and great entertainer, but actually using facts and rational thinking to back up their claims.

For example, it's crazy that many people who believe that Jackson is guilty believe he installed an alarm in his bedroom to fuck kids and went and fucked Safechuck all over his house. In a rational world, those beliefs would contradictory.

I think cryptoadam is as neutral as them come. Yet cryptoadam uses rational thinking when thinking about this case. No matter what you think of Michael Jackson, I think we can all agree that Leaving Neverland is a bunch of bollocks.

 

[cryptoadam]

Just bring facts to the table. Its clearly a divisive issue, but resorting to name calling is not an honest way to debate. It shows you have no more argument so all you can muster is to call someone a pedo defender or attack them.

I even found a website (easy googling) with the 2005 transcripts. Anyone can read them and see what Wade said to defend MJ and contrast it with what he is saying in the documentary.

So if there is evidence and facts pointing to MJ being a pedo then share it. If your evidence is debunked/countered then rebuttle with more facts, not just name calling.

I have learned a lot from reading this site and doing my own follow up research. It doesn't make me an expert or 100% right, but it has shed some light on a lot of falsehoods that were put out by the media.

And as far as Wade Robson goes, to me he is a POS. If he was molested by MJ while he spent decades defending him, allowing him to molest more children, and then lied straight to Gavin's face knowing what abuse is like, having MJ's penis up his own ass, and still conspired to defend MJ and perjure himself. And why? IMO because he had a career and wanted to stay on that MJ gravy train. Either that or MJ never molested him and he is a POS for trying to extort the estate and dragging MJ's name through the mud because he can't get any choerography gigs and had a breakdown the first movie he was tapped to direct.

 

[Falcs]

I really hope these two assholes are forced to admit they made it all up, or it all comes out that it's complete utter bullshit soon. I will be so happy to see the looks on their faces when it's revealed that everything is bullshit. I mean it's obvious now they are lying, but most people only read headlines and don't bother to research. So most of the world is on their side.

 

[Shodan09]

Earlier I said this was one of the reasons that people feel Michael Jackson was guilty. This payment was done by the insurance company. Michael Jackson was in the middle of his tour and they didn't want to cancel the tour to fight this in court. Michael initially wanted to fight this but he also didn't want his genitals paraded around on television. Michael finally agreed to this. It ended up being the biggest mistake because many people now point to this as an admission of guilt. I mean you read the headline "Michael Jackson Pays Off Accuser" and it seems like a slam dunk right.

But then this extortion audio emerges:



I respect your opinion. I'll say it again: I don't know if Michael Jackson molested kids. He could have. The amazing thing in this case, you can never find evidence that he did anything wrong. He was investigated by the FBI and even had his day in court. However, you will find evidence that all of the accusers are lying. Each and everyone of them.

I'm not blindly defending Michael Jackson. I don't know if this is true for other people in this thread, but there was a point even I believed he may have molested kids. If all you read is the headlines, it is easy to come to this conclusion. The more you start looking into Michael Jackson's life, the more you will find that he probably didn't do anything he was accused of.

The other weird thing about this case is how irrational people are on both sides. Even though things don't make sense rationally, they try to bend reality to fit it into their beliefs. What I love about this thread is that people are not just saying Michael Jackson didn't do it because he was a kind humanitarian and great entertainer, but actually using facts and rational thinking to back up their claims.

For example, it's crazy that many people who believe that Jackson is guilty believe he installed an alarm in his bedroom to fuck kids and went and fucked Safechuck all over his house. In a rational world, those beliefs would contradictory.

I think cryptoadam is as neutral as them come. Yet cryptoadam uses rational thinking when thinking about this case. No matter what you think of Michael Jackson, I think we can all agree that Leaving Neverland is a bunch of bollocks.

Very well put. I just assumed he was guilty too for about a decade. I remember it being the punchline in a variety of immature jokes at school and college. I agree with what you say in that the more you look into it, the less likely it is that he did anything. I love true crime stories and I don't think I've ever read about one where the individual seems more innocent the more you research.

 

[Shodan09]

I really hope these two assholes are forced to admit they made it all up, or it all comes out that it's complete utter bullshit soon. I will be so happy to see the looks on their faces when it's revealed that everything is bullshit. I mean it's obvious now they are lying, but most people only read headlines and don't bother to research. So most of the world is on their side.

There's a good video doing the rounds where a British journalist reads the Michael Jackson estate's statement on leaving Neverland to Reed, Robson and Safechuck and Safechuck looks distraught. I do think he will crack eventually.

 

[DForce]

Some reason you brought up this argument again in another thread and won't post in the OT. So here it is.

nah, that "Train incongruence" story was just made-up bullshit to begin with.

Prove it.

What was degunked years ago were other ridiculous claims you made back in that thread,

This wasn't debunked years ago.

James said he was abused from 1988-1992. The train station in which he claimed to have been abused in was not constructed until after.

Construction was approved late 1993

Footage from August 1993

like "Jackson being cleared by a criminal persecution" when in fact he never went through it.

Wrong. I said in his 2004/2005 trial, the evidence from 1993 was used against him.

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Jackson's 'past' allowed in court

His own advocates years later admitted that they settled in a civil cause and paid an obscene amount of money to avoid at all costs to discuss

Wrong again.

Michael Jackson wanted to delay the civil case until AFTER the criminal trial. His notion was denied by the judge multiple times. Jackson paid the money, but that didn't prevent him from criminal charges.

Jackson was approached by the father (Evan) BEFORE he brought up allegations to settle the case and Jackson refused.

publicly the fact that one child correctly described and identified his genitals in a picture.

Wrong again. He claimed to have been circumcised when in fact he was uncircumcised.

And that's just one of HUNDREDS of little episodes that should make people question how opportune it is to attempt to defend a serial child fucker.

Again, you're lying. I can sit here and post lies all day, but you're going to have an excuse ready as to why it's false.