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[MichaelRR1989]

We May Be Destined For PS5 Pro, Xbox Series X-2 In 2023, 2024

PS5 Pro and Xbox Series X-2 are almost certainly coming this generation.

www.forbes.com

Despite no prices or release dates for either console, we are fast approaching the arrival of both the PS5 and Xbox Series X. Probably both in November, probably both hovering around $500, barring alternate version pricing for digital only editions or the long-rumored Lockhart. But this generation, unlike the last generation, we are going into it with open eyes for what may likely end up being a new normal. While previous generations gave us redesigned and usually “slim” consoles as time went on, last generation, after the 2013 arrival of PS4 and Xbox One, we got mid generation upgrades in the form of PS4 Pro in 2016 and Xbox One X in 2017. Now, it seems like this is likely to be the new normal, and $1000 worth of video game hardware in 2020 may be supplemented by $1000+ of additional hardware in 2023-2024, if the schedules hold.

There are already some small hints about this happening. Sony recently filed a patent for a GPU talking about “light” and “high-end” versions of hardware, which as people thinking PS5 Pro is already on the brain, particularly since Sony is launching with less horsepower than the Series X. Meanwhile for Microsoft, if Sony does that, then they will have to respond, and the “Series” naming convention already implies we could get a Series Y or Z as an upgraded model, though I just called it “X-2” for now in my title like it’s a Marvel movie. I don’t see any reason we should not expect new mid-gen upgrade consoles this time around. I think both Sony and Microsoft were perfectly satisfied with the adoption and capabilities of the Pro and One X, and would see no reason not to do that again a few years from now. Whether we have that exact schedule again, a PS5 Pro in 2023 and a Series X-2 in 2024, remains to be seen, but we may have the dynamic where Sony tries to leapfrog the Series X with a power upgrade, then Microsoft bites back with another upgrade itself. That isn’t how things went last time, however, as Sony went first even though the PS4 had the power edge over the original One, but who knows.

Microsoft seems to be heading most outside the box for this launch with the launch of Lockhart, a lower spec console likely to be released alongside the Series X this fall. That is in contrast to Sony simply splitting models between digital and disc-based, so that may upset the apple cart in an entirely new way. It’s now a day until August and Microsoft still has not said a single public word about Lockhart, despite a release that should be three months away, but I would be amazed if we made it out of next month without seeing it debut. And that will raise a whole host of new questions. This is obviously something we won’t really have to deal with in earnest until a few years from now, but this time around we know pretty much for sure that the consoles we buy now are almost certainly not to be the best version of those consoles for the next 6-7 years with mid-gen upgrades being a thing now. So start saving now, if you always want to be top of the line for this entire new generation.

I mean, I would not mind PS5 Pro in 2023 and Xbox Series X-2 in 2024. But I would prefer not to have mid-gen upgrade consoles, and just have next, next gen (10th gen) consoles (PS6 X-????) in late 2026, in stead of mid-gens in 2023/2024 and next,next gen in late 2027. I'm fine with 6 year console cycles. Long enough.

 

[Compsiox]

It's too early for this

 

[Thugnificient]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

 

[godhandiscen]

Of course we are. They are great for people like me who enjoy the graphical advantages mid gen.

 

[MichaelRR1989]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

I agree.

 

[killatopak]

I actually like the idea of mid-gen refresh this time around. If they can focus on increasing the graphical fidelity of a game without chasing for 4k that would be great.

Allow the mid-gen consoles to be the one to do so and make the base consoles deliver th best they possibly can regardless of resolution and framerate.

 

[Freeman]

The PS5 Pro is definitely happening down the line, it's just easy money and allows them to have a more premium product at a higher price point. The PS4 Pro already proved that this is viable.

Longer gens are much better for devs and less risky to Sony.

 

[dorkimoe]

Maybe the ps5 pro will add Atmos

 

[Dave_at_Home]

PS5 Pro that allows for all PS5 games to be played at 60, or even 120 at 4K? Maybe even 8K 30 (even though 8K is worthless outside huge displays). I'm in. In the meantime, I'll enjoy whatever a regular PS5 offers.

 

[THEAP99]

why? I thought everyone said that the consoles this time are up to scuff with pc's and this wouldn't be needed.

though i do think the series x and series s will be the final xbox consoles ever made. same with the ps5 maybe

 

[Aggressive Carrot]

I can see it happening in the future. I don't see myself buying a PS5 Pro or Series X2 though. I'll be fine with the launch Versions.

 

[dave_d]

Umm, I thought the whole point of the Series X is it turns Xbox into a platform like iPhone/Android. IE Xbox one is the first system in the series, XBX is the second in the series, etc. They'll just release a new system in the Xbox platform every couple of years from now on and it'll pretty much be fully compatible.

 

[Compsiox]

I can see it happening in the future. I don't see myself buying a PS5 Pro or Series X2 though. I'll be fine with the launch Versions.

You won't want to play refresh exclusive Cyberpunk 2077: Super Enhanced Complete edition running in 4K 240fps?

 

[Breakage]

PS5 Pro sounds logical at some point down the line. But what will Microsoft call an enhanced Series X?
Xbox Series XX? Series X is supposed to be the pro variant of the Gen 9 Xbox.

 

[Yoboman]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

If both consoles lack a DLSS 2.0 equivalent, there are enormous performance gains to be made in a few years for relatively small system upgrades

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Who would say no to 72 RDNA 3 CUs clocked at 3.5GHz?

 

[Deleted member 471617]

I don't see there being an Xbox Series X2 but im definitely expecting there to be a PS5 Pro in November 2023.

 

[anothertech]

Would buy a pro for $599 without blinking.

It's too early for this

Nah.

 

[RCU005]

Maybe the ps5 pro will add Atmos

The PS5‘s tempest engine is better than Atmos, but also works in a similar way, so technically you won’t notice the difference, but experience-wise it will be better.

 

[Neo_game]

There can be a market for it but I think the mid gen console do not sell much. Having said that it can definitely increase longevity of this gen. In order for Pro models to happen the current PS5 and X version will have to come down to 300$

 

[dorkimoe]

The PS5‘s tempest engine is better than Atmos, but also works in a similar way, so technically you won’t notice the difference, but experience-wise it will be better.

It utilizes Atmos speakers/channel?

 

[DaleinCalgary]

good

 

[Rikoi]

People are really disappointed by the next generation right?
New consoles haven't released yet but we want pro versions and PS6 already

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The PS5‘s tempest engine is better than Atmos

I hope.

 

[Paulxo87]

Doesn't make as much sense this time around considering the enourmous budget and time it will take for devs to really push the systems this gen. Only the likes of the best first party studios will get the potential out of these things. Besides they are already pushing 4k resolution. What the fuck is a mid gen refresh going to even do?

It made sense this gen to push the gap from 1080p to either a faux or native 4k and maybe slightly better textures. Can't see it this gen.

 

[MichaelRR1989]

A. No mid-gen PS5 Pro / Xbox Series X2 in 2023/2024 - PS6/Scarlett successor gen starts late 2026
B. Mid gens in 2023/2024, PS6/Scarkett successor gen starts late 2027

I'm going with A

 

[DeadOblivion78]

It's to be expected. They are always developing a new console after they ship.

 

[MichaelRR1989]

It's to be expected. They are always developing a new console after they ship.

Of course. PS5 went into development in 2015. The PS4 in 2009/2010. The PS3 in 1999/2000 (prior to the PS2 release in Japan, March 2000)

The PS6 will be in development in 2022 at the latest.

 

[Victoria3D]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

They said that about 4K. 8K TVs have been on the market a couple years and should really increase in availability over the next few

 

[truth411]

To be honest I don't see the advantage in having a PS5 Pro with multiple GPUs vs a PS5 Pro with 72 CUs @ 3nm with RDNA3/4 features clocked higher.
TSMC 3nm will be out for phones in 2022, so 3nm for a PS5 Pro in 2023 may be doable.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

I can see both of them getting mid gen refreshes with Navi 3 on board.

 

[turtlepowa]

Would love to see Pro 5 with 1 TF more and XSX-2 with a faster SDD just for the comments on GAF.

 

[Orta]

Just another reason to rinse gamers. They can shove their 'pros' up their collective arses.

 

[Kamina]

I’m okay with that.

 

[Kerotan]

I really hope there's a ps5 pro in 2024 and then ps6 in 2028. It's the perfect mix.

 

[DavidGzz]

Gonna need an upgrade for 8k 120 fps. There better be an 8k printed on the chip too, Phil.

 

[rofif]

I just want slim since ps5 is huge

 

[Panajev2001a]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

Not for you, but it helps them keep average selling prices high (introduce new model at the same high price or higher), lower expectations for depreciation of older HW (cheaper to get a redesign of the base console based on a cut down/downclocked version of the new generation parts they used for the mid generation upgrade: look at the GPU Sony used for the PS4 Slim update), etc... and hopefully condition people not to expect consoles to go down in price as fast as they used to in due time.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

can we not

 

[Reindeer]

Imagine the size of PS5 Pro.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

What would be the need? I mean I'd probably upgrade to a PS5 Pro if they released one but I doubt I'd feel it was needed, I'm just a sucker lol.

It's not wrong for them to plan for the future but it doesn't mean they are actually going to have to come out with a product like that, especially when Pro and One X sales were only about 20% of overall sales after they launched and you can bet the vast majority of them were people upgrading from base consoles so they didn't bring in a ton of new subs to online services etc they just got more used consoles out there on store shelves.

 

[BusierDonkey]

If the 8K console game meme becomes reality I think having less than 16GB of total available ram will force mid-gen consoles to happen. "8K" is already something both Sony and Microsoft have been using when discussing their new consoles.

8K TVs are starting to become more affordable too so the console manufacturer marketing departments and bean counters will push to have that 8K logo slapped on the game whether it's native 8K or not. Less than 16GB of available ram + 8K is going to be tough as the entirety of that 16GB of Vram will be required just to get decent performance on an 8K display with anything above the equivalent of low settings. Even for a balls-out beast PC 8K is not really an option if you expect any decent level of performance because of the demand involved in outputting an 8K image.

As resolution increases, the demand created by many effects scales with resolution as they implement per-pixel like RT, AA, etc. Unless consoles start allowing per-effect scaling options like PC, some of these effects like AA could seriously tank performance despite having less effect on the final image at 8K.

If Sony and/or Microsoft work out a solution similar to DLSS where they are only internally rendering 1/4 of the image displayed they may be able to pull off resolutions higher than 4K with the PS5 and XSX.

 

[Graciaus]

I don't see how there wouldn't be just going of the success of last time.

But for the price of the base + pro + online the whole time you could have had a nice PC.

 

[McRazzle]

Unlikely.
I think there will be a PS6 in 2025-2026 and there will never be another Xbox.
The only reason Microsoft is putting out a new Xbox now is to save face and repair the Xbox brand name, so they can move forward with GamePass.

AMD is going to a Multi-Chip Module design in 2021 for RDNA3, and TSMC will have the 3nm Gate All Around node, (which will lead to a completely new type of chip design) available in 2023; and GDDR7 and/or HBM3 will be available by then as well.
This is going to result in a paradigm shift for graphics tech, and Sony is going to want to jump on it sooner rather than later.

 

[Masterbrew]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

There will. In the same way that Pro and X sort of fixed the launch model’s struggles with resolution. This time it will be a big leap for 120fps or ray tracing that makes the mid-gen refresh compelling.

 

[Kagey K]

Well no shit.

It goes one of 2 ways, either we have generations, with new devices every 5-7 years or we don’t and get new ones every 3 or 4.

it doesn’t matter how it’s named, its all the same in the end.

 

[MichaelRR1989]

Well no shit.

It goes one of 2 ways, either we have generations, with new devices every 5-7 years or we don’t and get new ones every 3 or 4.

it doesn’t matter how it’s named, its all the same in the end.

PS6 should have a 4~5x increase over PS5 in traditional rasterized graphics (108 CUs, 36x 3) and a 10x increase in ray tracing performance/capability, in 2026 or 2027. That's where the biggest gains will be. Hopefully 32-48 GB of HBM3 at 2.4 TB/sec memory bandwidth, 4-8x faster SSD (2 TB next time) and a decent improvement in CPU power (16 cores/32 threads Zen 5 or whatever) at 4.8 GHz.


I'm expecting AMD to make a huge leaps in RT over RDNA 2 by 2026/2027.

 

[Thugnificient]

There will. In the same way that Pro and X sort of fixed the launch model’s struggles with resolution. This time it will be a big leap for 120fps or ray tracing that makes the mid-gen refresh compelling.

No mid-gen refresh will allow them to do 4K/120fps with RT or even without it lol.

 

[the_master]

There won't be a mid-gen refresh this time. No need for it.

No need???
Wait for the half assed raytracing implementations that will bring the framerrate down.
We'll be needing a mid gen refresh as aoon as we can get full ray tracing graphic cards.

I would also prefer a next gen early release.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

What for? So we can play at a slightly higher resolution? The Xbox One X and the PS4Pro made sense because the base consoles were already weak in 2013. But these new consoles are beasts.