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[Srsly]

Yes I did. And I have seen it already

Please show me the corresponding scientific studies to back up his claims? I am going to go make my dinner why you look it up :lol

You're just being willfully dense. Lustig discusses plenty of studies in his presentation, one of which being a study that shows that kids who have a coke before eating eat more than kids who aren't given a coke before eating.

 

[Chinner]

Are you suggesting these people we're hungry (they must have had less calories than the calorie restricted groups since they lost more weight, right?) all of the time but didn't eat more even though they weren't calorie restricted? Because that's nuts. The other alternative is of course that they weren't as hungry as they were before they started the study.

The fact is that we're on the brink of a metabolic syndrome epidemic. It's in all our interest to get to the bottom of this problem since it costs a lot of money, and it will only get worse. Saying "fat people are lazy lol" isn't going to cut it.

don't take him seriously mang, hes just trying to rile you up.

 

[thewhiterabbit]

well if you watch the video then you would say that he backs up his claims with studies:lol . you would know that, but your trolling skills are not quite up to scratch; your material has got to stay fresh mang. a

Other peoples unrelated studies. He takes their findings and molds them into his HYPOTHESIS.
As I said he findings have not been studied and proven one way or the other. Which is why you have not linked to any. :lol

 

[thewhiterabbit]

Are you suggesting these people we're hungry (they must have had less calories than the calorie restricted groups since they lost more weight, right?) all of the time but didn't eat more even though they weren't calorie restricted? Because that's nuts. The other alternative is of course that they weren't as hungry as they were before they started the study.

The fact is that we're on the brink of a metabolic syndrome epidemic. It's in all our interest to get to the bottom of this problem since it costs a lot of money, and it will only get worse. Saying "fat people are lazy lol" isn't going to cut it.

Why do you think people on calories restriction are hungry or starving? I think you mistake what I am talking about with starving oneself.

We are talking 500 less calories a day. That would be 1 pound a week. You can do that by adding some intense cardio. And cutting out a few unneeded extras.

Maybe thats why we aint seeing eye to eye. I eat man. I eat all the time. I try to eat good calories. And I track everything. I am not hungry. I do not deprive myself. That would be hell to always be hungry.

Just another note, I try to eat all my exercise calories. So today I have an extra 1000 calories from my 5 mile run. I do not go hungry. I eat and lose.

 

[Chinner]

anyway have you guys seen the china study: fact or fallacy article? genuinely quite interesting, although its pretty intimidating with its detail :lol
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

In sum, “The China Study” is a compelling collection of carefully chosen data. Unfortunately for both health seekers and the scientific community, Campbell appears to exclude relevant information when it indicts plant foods as causative of disease, or when it shows potential benefits for animal products. This presents readers with a strongly misleading interpretation of the original China Study data, as well as a slanted perspective of nutritional research from other arenas (including some that Campbell himself conducted).

 

[moniker]

Why do you think people on calories restriction are hungry or starving? I think you mistake what I am talking about with starving oneself.

We are talking 500 less calories a day. That would be 1 pounds a week. You can do that bt adding some intense cardio. And cutting out a few unneeded extras.

Maybe thats why we aint seeing eye to eye. I eat man. I eat all the time. I try to eat good calories. And I track everything. I am not hungry. I do not deprive myself. That would be hell to always be hungry.

I didn't say they were... but why do you think the people on the low carb diet lost weight if they weren't less hungry than before the diet (remember that they weren't calorie restricted)?

Please show me a study showing lower hunger on a low carb diet. You can't cause one does not exist.

Here you go: Perceived Hunger Is Lower and Weight Loss Is Greater in Overweight Premenopausal Women Consuming a Low-Carbohydrate/High-Protein vs High-Carbohydrate/Low-Fat Diet

 

[BertramCooper]

anyway have you guys seen the china study: fact or fallacy article? genuinely quite interesting, although its pretty intimidating with its detail :lol
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Yeah, The China Study is a load of bunk. Its success is largely due to confirmation bias. It tells vegans exactly what they want to hear - that meat is evil and will give you cancer.

 

[thewhiterabbit]

I didn't say they were... but why do you think the people on the low carb diet lost weight if they weren't less hungry than before the diet (remember that they weren't calorie restricted)?



Here you go: Perceived Hunger Is Lower and Weight Loss Is Greater in Overweight Premenopausal Women Consuming a Low-Carbohydrate/High-Protein vs High-Carbohydrate/Low-Fat Diet

Cause low carb food is low n calories so with out realizing it they restricted thier calories. It's called a food plan. And a natural result of eatig less calorie dense food. And why it works for people who can't follow through with tracking calories. It was explained in the study I linked too many times now.

And yes let's use a study on women going through menopause lol.

 

[moniker]

Cause low carb food is low n calories so with out realizing it they restricted thier calories. It's called a food plan. And a natural result of eating less calorie dense food. And why it works for people who can't follow through with tracking calories. It was explained in the study I linked too many times now.

Uh, so you're agreeing with me now - low carb works for losing weight without counting calories?

And yes let's use a study on women going through menopause lol.

You said there weren't any studies that showed lower hunger with low carb diets. I linked to a study that did just that. You can lol all you want.

 

[thewhiterabbit]

Uh, so you're agreeing with me now - low carb works for losing weight without counting calories?


You said there weren't any studies that showed lower hunger with low carb diets. I linked to a study that did just that. You can lol all you want.

Where did I disagree with you? All I said was it was not becasue of anything magical carbs were or weren't doing. I said and continue to say its all about calories. You keep making excuses about how people tracking calories are hungry while those on low crabs aren't. And how it is not sustainable because they would be hungry or some crap.


And no a study on menopausal women does not count. unless we are only discussing menopausal women. Forget younger adults and men altogether right?

 

[moniker]

Christ, you're just trolling at this point. Good night.

 

[thewhiterabbit]

Christ, you're just trolling at this point. Good night.

:lol Is that what we call people we disagree with "TROLLS" Cool beans. Guess your just as much of a troll.

 

[teh_pwn]

Stop feeding the troll and the junk science.

It's one thing to have a debate/discussion, but there's a lot of name calling and logical fallacies going on here. Not worth my time.

Not because I disagree with the person, but because of the way he/she is conducting it. Nothing wrong with civil disagreements with people like grumble.

 

[LaneDS]

How quickly can your body enter ketosis? I'm on day four of the low carb thing, which might not sound like a lot but it's certainly been the longest I've ever gone low carb for. Love me some carbs. Anyway, I went out searching for ketosis strips last night and the pharmacy I checked at didn't know what section they stocked them in, so I struck out there.

Also, is it unhealthy to maintain ketosis for too long? Or can I just get away with this for as long as I can hold out?

 

[Nolimit_SS]

Any other ways to check if you're in ketosis beside strips, can't find them here.
I know about breath but might not work for everyone.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

How quickly can your body enter ketosis? I'm on day four of the low carb thing, which might not sound like a lot but it's certainly been the longest I've ever gone low carb for. Love me some carbs. Anyway, I went out searching for ketosis strips last night and the pharmacy I checked at didn't know what section they stocked them in, so I struck out there.

Also, is it unhealthy to maintain ketosis for too long? Or can I just get away with this for as long as I can hold out?

I think it takes 2 to 3 days to enter it. Not sure about how healthy it is.

 

[LaneDS]

Any other ways to check if you're in ketosis beside strips, can't find them here.
I know about breath but might not work for everyone.

As someone with no sense of smell whatsoever, that method will probably not work for me. Does it give you bad (or strange) breath? I didn't know that. I'll have to tread carefully it seems.

I think it takes 2 to 3 days to enter it. Not sure about how healthy it is.

Gotcha. And thanks.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

How quickly can your body enter ketosis? I'm on day four of the low carb thing, which might not sound like a lot but it's certainly been the longest I've ever gone low carb for. Love me some carbs. Anyway, I went out searching for ketosis strips last night and the pharmacy I checked at didn't know what section they stocked them in, so I struck out there.

Also, is it unhealthy to maintain ketosis for too long? Or can I just get away with this for as long as I can hold out?

Ketostix? My store doesn't stock them we special order them for people

 

[Schlep]

As someone with no sense of smell whatsoever

???

 

[teh_pwn]

Also, is it unhealthy to maintain ketosis for too long? Or can I just get away with this for as long as I can hold out?

Should be fine. Make sure you get enough protein, minerals/nutrients and drink plenty of fluids. Ketones build up if you don't push enough liquids.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

1 month of eating right and nightly exercise and I'm down from 171 to 166. Pretty happy to get the weight off, just wish I could see the difference =/

 

[hsukardi]

Seriously, why is thewhiterabbit behaving so obnoxiously?

We can engage in normal debate and focus on finding out the truth rather than be assholes.

 

[LFG]

1 month of eating right and nightly exercise and I'm down from 171 to 166. Pretty happy to get the weight off, just wish I could see the difference =/

i hear ya! i've lost about 18lbs in almost 2 months and can't tell it. i had a person today tell me that i look like i've lost some weight, but i don't see it. maybe because i'm looking at myself in the mirror daily and just don't see the results i want. oh well, i'm sticking with to my plan

 

[elrechazado]

Seriously, why is thewhiterabbit behaving so obnoxiously?

We can engage in normal debate and focus on finding out the truth rather than be assholes.

Often people who have lost a lot of weight become champions of a specific method: the one they used. And their feelings of self hate transfer to all the "fatasses with no self control", particularly in an attempt to feel superior to their previous selves.

All of the ranting and smarmy smiley faces and namecalling and calling out the "lazy fatasses" who just can't be as awesome as him and have that incredible willpower that he now has are only worthy of derision. When you view the problem of obesity solely as a problem of self discipline, it lets you simultaneously feel better than others, and show that you're not that person anymore.

The reality is of course far different, as Doctors like Eades and Lustig and thousands of others have shown, as well as researchers like Taubes. Popular culture will always include the refrain of "lol ur a fatass get off the couch" as if it is the cure for actual problems. It's quite sad really.

 

[cubicle47b]

I had a friend try to bulk up with a program like Starting Strength (3x a week, compound lifts, fairly limited sets - he wasn't doing cardio). He was eating 6000 calories per day (in his late 20's). In 8 months of doing this he put on 12 pounds (hit maybe 160).

And I've gone over a month on a strictly controlled diet where I was biking 5 times a week for an hour (supposedly burning 500+ calories) and didn't lose any weight (checked everyday in the morning right after I woke up). I was losing weight slowly eating the same (biking less) but it just stopped after losing ~15 lbs.

Both anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I just can't buy into the conventional wisdom. Looking back, the best success I've had was carb limited as well as calorie limited, not just the latter. I might be insulin resistant. Anyway, the Paleo diet seemed like the logical choice. I've lost 6 1/2 pounds in about 9 days since starting it. 4 in the first 3 days so obviously some was water weight but I've lost 2 1/2 in the last 6 which would be nice to keep up.

 

[LaneDS]

???

Hah, yes, that totally increased my appreciation for that movie.

And teh_pwn, thanks. I'll do just that.

 

[Chinner]

I had a friend try to bulk up with a program like Starting Strength (3x a week, compound lifts, fairly limited sets - he wasn't doing cardio). He was eating 6000 calories per day (in his late 20's). In 8 months of doing this he put on 12 pounds (hit maybe 160).

And I've gone over a month on a strictly controlled diet where I was biking 5 times a week for an hour (supposedly burning 500+ calories) and didn't lose any weight (checked everyday in the morning right after I woke up). I was losing weight slowly eating the same (biking less) but it just stopped after losing ~15 lbs.

Both anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I just can't buy into the conventional wisdom. Looking back, the best success I've had was carb limited as well as calorie limited, not just the latter. I might be insulin resistant. Anyway, the Paleo diet seemed like the logical choice. I've lost 6 1/2 pounds in about 9 days since starting it. 4 in the first 3 days so obviously some was water weight but I've lost 2 1/2 in the last 6 which would be nice to keep up.

i'm the same actually, i'm trying to put on weight and i'm eating more than i ever have but at the moment i'm just not putting it on :lol .

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

???

An amazing story, that he learnt to play the guitar without being able to smell. So inspiring.

 

[elrechazado]

I had a friend try to bulk up with a program like Starting Strength (3x a week, compound lifts, fairly limited sets - he wasn't doing cardio). He was eating 6000 calories per day (in his late 20's). In 8 months of doing this he put on 12 pounds (hit maybe 160).

And I've gone over a month on a strictly controlled diet where I was biking 5 times a week for an hour (supposedly burning 500+ calories) and didn't lose any weight (checked everyday in the morning right after I woke up). I was losing weight slowly eating the same (biking less) but it just stopped after losing ~15 lbs.

Both anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I just can't buy into the conventional wisdom. Looking back, the best success I've had was carb limited as well as calorie limited, not just the latter. I might be insulin resistant. Anyway, the Paleo diet seemed like the logical choice. I've lost 6 1/2 pounds in about 9 days since starting it. 4 in the first 3 days so obviously some was water weight but I've lost 2 1/2 in the last 6 which would be nice to keep up.

I lost about 40 pounds through straight calorie restricting and exercise. I was dangerously eating less than 1000 calories a day, and the weight loss had stopped and I didn't understand why. I read up on a lot of the things discussed in this thread (thanks to many posters for the great links), switched to no carbs, and have lost over 40 more. How did I do this? By eating more.

I basically eat up to two times more calories than I did in the first half of my diet (when I was losing the easy weight), and yet am losing pounds consistently each week.

So to recap, diet of about 1000-1100 calories a day (lotta grains, "healthy" granola bars, whole wheat, etc- body was maintaining, even with tons of exercise not losing a single pound anymore.
Diet of 2500+ (Often much more... I don't count anymore, I just don't eat carbs) of all sorts of "fatty" foods like butter and nuts and fish and steak and chicken and pork and leafy greens and all the rest, and I'm losing a few pounds a week, usually about 2. I'm also exercising less (chronic cardio was wrecking my knees, but I still run about 20 miles a week).

So how am I defying the laws of physics? 2x-3x the times of calories (and subtracting "calories out", because I exercise less now) should be 2x-3x the amount of weight gained, right physics majors?

 

[Shurs]

I lost about 40 pounds through straight calorie restricting and exercise. I was dangerously eating less than 1000 calories a day, and the weight loss had stopped and I didn't understand why. I read up on a lot of the things discussed in this thread (thanks to many posters for the great links), switched to no carbs, and have lost over 40 more.

How heavy were you at your largest?

 

[teh_pwn]

So how am I defying the laws of physics? 2x-3x the times of calories (and subtracting "calories out", because I exercise less now) should be 2x-3x the amount of weight gained, right physics majors?

Nah, the equation is still valid, but incomplete. There are probably several causes of obesity, of which many I'm not familiar with, but I'm betting most of them have to do with the hypothalamus & leptin.

Lipostatic hypothesis - this hypothesis holds that adipose tissue produces a humoral signal that is proportionate to the amount of fat and acts on the hypothalamus to decrease food intake and increase energy output. It has been evident that a hormone leptin acts on the hypothalamus to decrease food intake and increase energy output.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus

I know wikipedia is a shitty reference, but it's the point conventional wisdom people need to get. You control the hypothalamus, you control the equation without any effort. If you want to tackle obesity with Soviet Russia brute force style conventional wisdom, good luck.

It's a little fuzzy how insulin resistance increases hunger, how blood sugar fluctuations increase hunger. I've read studies indicating high triglycerides inhibit leptin from crossing the blood brain barrier, and triglycerides are formed when lots of blood glucose goes down very quickly. But there's probably a lot more complexity to it.

But I guess the take home message is that sugar fucks you up.

 

[elrechazado]

How heavy were you at your largest?

About 6' 260
Below 180 now and still falling

But I guess the take home message is that sugar fucks you up.

It's crazy how many terrible things it does to your body.
Just a short list of problems that have been solved for me since I cut it out of my diet:
Snoring - gone
Migraines - gone
Chronic heartburn - gone
(this one is crazy...) Chronic lower back spasms - gone (interestingly enough, I thought this was due to the weight loss itself, but it isn't. The few times I've gone back to my old ways in the last few months and cheated or binged on carbs, my back spasms have returned, which leads me to believe it's maybe not back spasms but gall bladder or kidney related pain. Whatever it is, I get none when I eat right, and as many as a dozen or so extremely painful waves of pain back there a day when I cheat for more than a day or two or binge on sugar).

 

[Ettie]

About 6' 260
Below 180 now and still falling

It's crazy how many terrible things it does to your body.
Just a short list of problems that have been solved for me since I cut it out of my diet:
Snoring - gone
Migraines - gone
Chronic heartburn - gone
(this one is crazy...) Chronic lower back spasms - gone (interestingly enough, I thought this was due to the weight loss itself, but it isn't. The few times I've gone back to my old ways in the last few months and cheated or binged on carbs, my back spasms have returned, which leads me to believe it's maybe not back spasms but gall bladder or kidney related pain. Whatever it is, I get none when I eat right, and as many as a dozen or so extremely painful waves of pain back there a day when I cheat for more than a day or two or binge on sugar).

Except for the back spasms, I dealt with all of the above when I was fat. After the loss, all have automagically left me.

But, I came in to ask, is there any real benefit to cardio exercise if fat loss can be attained by carb cutting alone? I know that weight loss in general is largely a dietary thing, but why bother with the running, if it's really unneeded?

 

[elrechazado]

Except for the back spasms, I dealt with all of the above when I was fat. After the loss, all have automagically left me.

But, I came in to ask, is there any real benefit to cardio exercise if fat loss can be attained by carb cutting alone? I know that weight loss in general is largely a dietary thing, but why bother with the running, if it's really unneeded?

Some people mistake the hormonal (tldr version: low carb) approach to weight loss as discounting exercise. What people like lustig and taubes and others are saying isn't that exercise is useless, but rather that it's not the controlling factor in any sensible approach to weight loss for the obese. Diet first, exercise second, and if you really want to get into it, the diet causes you to exercise due to your body's hormone levels. You can listen to lustig discuss this phenomenon that has appeared in his clinical trials. http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/...-you-dont-need-to-be-on-a-low-carb-diet/8474\

Anyway, the point is that as a pure weight loss mechanism, exercise isn't the major factor in the equation. HOWEVER, exercise has enormous benefits in cardiovascular health, certain hormonal responses, muscle growth, and flat out making you look better as you lose the weight. For me, I enjoy the running, as it's something I could never do when I was fat, and I am marathon training and enjoying the challenge. And my body has changed in aesthetically pleasing ways that it wouldn't have if I had just lost weight straight up.

tldr - eat for weight loss, exercise for overall physical condition.

 

[teh_pwn]

About 6' 260
Below 180 now and still falling

It's crazy how many terrible things it does to your body.
Just a short list of problems that have been solved for me since I cut it out of my diet:
Snoring - gone
Migraines - gone
Chronic heartburn - gone
(this one is crazy...) Chronic lower back spasms - gone (interestingly enough, I thought this was due to the weight loss itself, but it isn't. The few times I've gone back to my old ways in the last few months and cheated or binged on carbs, my back spasms have returned, which leads me to believe it's maybe not back spasms but gall bladder or kidney related pain. Whatever it is, I get none when I eat right, and as many as a dozen or so extremely painful waves of pain back there a day when I cheat for more than a day or two or binge on sugar).

Yep. While I still want to lose about 10 lbs of fat (I like being extra lean - 155 @ 5'9"), cutting out sugar and flour fixed a lot of health problems for me too.

Blood pressure 140/85 -> 115/75
No more twitches
No more heart palpitations
No longer sensitive to the cold. Which is kind of a minus in Austin this time of year.

After probiotics:
No more hemorrhoids
No more bloating

I mean seriously at 26 years old I was well on my way to becoming chronically ill - "metabolic syndrome".

But, I came in to ask, is there any real benefit to cardio exercise if fat loss can be attained by carb cutting alone? I know that weight loss in general is largely a dietary thing, but why bother with the running, if it's really unneeded?

Yes, but I can't give you scientific specifics. Increases endorphins, and if done right anabolic hormones.

 

[Price Dalton]

Low carbers (and, naturally, high fatters) should keep their omega six fatty acid intake really low. As fat in the diet rises, omega six often rises with it. Don't go frying your food in vegetable oils and eating commercial mayo by the spoonful and eating entire jars of nut butter. There's considerable evidence that along with sugar, processed, evolutionarily novel seed oils are to blame for the obesity epidemic. You give rats fatty liver by overfeeding fructose and/or linoleic acid.

Low carb probably works primarily because it happens to remove wheat and fructose from the diet, but you gotta watch out for that other metabolic deranger - linoleic acid. People are largely unaware of the linoleic acid issue; vegetable fat is still "heart healthy. Even Atkins never really distinguished between sources of fat.

I didn't start to see fantastic health results until I wised up and dropped vegetable oils three years ago. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Shurs]

tldr - eat for weight loss, exercise for overall physical condition.

Yep.

I'd always been somewhat slender, but the winter after I quit smoking I put on 10 lbs. When I noticed I weighed 170 lbs, I decided to start running while concurrently light strength training, basic stuff, such as pushups and sit-ups, etc, which I had done, on and off, for years before;

My goal was to get back down to 160 (I'm 5'11) it took awhile in spite of dropping soda completely from my diet and replacing it with water and running 5 miles every other day.

While the weight loss took about 3-4 months, the changes in my body, due to the cardio, were apparent much quicker.

 

[moniker]

Low carbers (and, naturally, high fatters) should keep their omega six fatty acid intake really low. As fat in the diet rises, omega six often rises with it. Don't go frying your food in vegetable oils and eating commercial mayo by the spoonful and eating entire jars of nut butter. There's considerable evidence that along with sugar, processed, evolutionarily novel seed oils are to blame for the obesity epidemic. You give rats fatty liver by overfeeding fructose and/or linoleic acid.

Low carb probably works primarily because it happens to remove wheat and fructose from the diet, but you gotta watch out for that other metabolic deranger - linoleic acid. People are largely unaware of the linoleic acid issue; vegetable fat is still "heart healthy. Even Atkins never really distinguished between sources of fat.

I didn't start to see fantastic health results until I wised up and dropped vegetable oils three years ago. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah, I tend to forget that. Probably because I seldom used vegetable oils even before I switched to low carb.

I think Kurt G. Harris' 12-step list over at PāNu is a great place to start for people who are interested.

 

[teh_pwn]

Low carbers (and, naturally, high fatters) should keep their omega six fatty acid intake really low. As fat in the diet rises, omega six often rises with it. Don't go frying your food in vegetable oils and eating commercial mayo by the spoonful and eating entire jars of nut butter. There's considerable evidence that along with sugar, processed, evolutionarily novel seed oils are to blame for the obesity epidemic. You give rats fatty liver by overfeeding fructose and/or linoleic acid.

Low carb probably works primarily because it happens to remove wheat and fructose from the diet, but you gotta watch out for that other metabolic deranger - linoleic acid. People are largely unaware of the linoleic acid issue; vegetable fat is still "heart healthy. Even Atkins never really distinguished between sources of fat.

I didn't start to see fantastic health results until I wised up and dropped vegetable oils three years ago. Just something to keep in mind.

I've skimmed over this stuff before, but I suppose I should read over it again.

Basically it implies that you need to cook everything yourself. Most prepared food is cooked in soybean oil. Even healthier fast food like Panda Express (steamed veggies, kung pao, thai cashew chicken, broccoli beef, etc) would be healthy, but they are loaded with soybean oil.

For omega 3s I eat whole yogurt with a bunch of lemon fish oil.

 

[Price Dalton]

I've skimmed over this stuff before, but I suppose I should read over it again.

Basically it implies that you need to cook everything yourself. Most prepared food is cooked in soybean oil. Even healthier fast food like Panda Express (steamed veggies, kung pao, thai cashew chicken, broccoli beef, etc) would be healthy, but they are loaded with soybean oil.

For omega 3s I eat whole yogurt with a bunch of lemon fish oil.

Pretty much. When I eat out, I always ask for my food to be cooked in butter. If I eat Indian, I ask that they use ghee. Diners usually have bacon grease on hand. Some of the better restaurants use butter, but most places just use cooking oil, which is nasty stuff.

Do you use Carlson's fish oil? It's tasty (well, maybe not tasty) stuff. I try to eat lots of fresh sardines and salmon regularly.

 

[Schlep]

I lost about 40 pounds through straight calorie restricting and exercise. I was dangerously eating less than 1000 calories a day, and the weight loss had stopped and I didn't understand why. I read up on a lot of the things discussed in this thread (thanks to many posters for the great links), switched to no carbs, and have lost over 40 more. How did I do this? By eating more.

Well, to be fair, your trouble had less to do with the type of food that you were eating than it did the fact that you were eating a number of calories that no nutritionist would recommend, especially at your height and weight.

 

[teh_pwn]

Pretty much. When I eat out, I always ask for my food to be cooked in butter. If I eat Indian, I ask that they use ghee. Diners usually have bacon grease on hand. Some of the better restaurants use butter, but most places just use cooking oil, which is nasty stuff.

Do you use Carlson's fish oil? It's tasty (well, maybe not tasty) stuff. I try to eat lots of fresh sardines and salmon regularly.

I'm using Barlean's omega swirl. Only stuff at whole foods that didn't have flax. I've become a bit worried about the xylitol used to make it sweet.

Looked up carlson's. Is it safe to order online? It seems it doesn't require refrigeration until opening, but even then sitting around on a UPS truck for a day seems questionable in Texas in the Summer.

I'm also trying to look up more information about why linoleic acid is bad. The impression I get is that it it disturbs omega 3 metabolism, which weakens the immune system, which creates more body wide inflammation, and inflammation of the hypothalamus causes hunger? Or does it cause inflammation directly? Or something else?

 

[Evolved1]

I think this thread was better when it was about people losing weight and inspiring others, and not polluted with all the bickering over nutrition.

Way to miss the point.

 

[Price Dalton]

I'm using Barlean's omega swirl. Only stuff at whole foods that didn't have flax. I've become a bit worried about the xylitol used to make it sweet.

Looked up carlson's. Is it safe to order online? It seems it doesn't require refrigeration until opening, but even then sitting around on a UPS truck for a day seems questionable in Texas in the Summer.

I'm also trying to look up more information about why linoleic acid is bad. The impression I get is that it it disturbs omega 3 metabolism, which weakens the immune system, which creates more body wide inflammation, and inflammation of the hypothalamus causes hunger? Or does it cause inflammation directly? Or something else?

I order Carlson's from Amazon. I suppose there's a chance it could be heat-damaged, but I haven't noticed any adverse effects from taking it the past couple years. I generally try to get my O3s from fresh fish, though.

Dietary intake of both Omega-3 and Omega-6 contribute to something called HUFA - highly unsaturated fatty acids. HUFA is stored in your cell membranes, and the proportion of Omega-3 to Omega-6 intake determines the composition of your tissue HUFA. If you eat a ton of vegetable oil and little fish, your tissue HUFA will be mostly Omega-6.

Eicosanoids are signaling molecules in the body. We use eicosanoids mostly to control inflammation and immunity, and we create eicosanoids from tissue HUFA. If your HUFA is Omega-6 dominant, the eicosanoids created will be highly inflammatory and blood clot-promoting; Omega-3 heavy HUFA creates less inflammatory eicosanoids. IL-6 is a highly inflammatory cytokine that's effective in small doses, but high O-6 HUFA leads to excessive amounts of IL-6 in response to inflammatory signaling.

Too much IL-6 may induce leptin resistance (by upregulating production of leptin receptor-binding SOCS-3), and too much tissue Omega-6 may increase heart disease. As Stephan shows, groups with the most Omega-3 HUFA (Japanese, Inuit) have the greatest heart health, while groups with more O-6 HUFA (like the USA) have the worst.

Plus, there's the fact that linoleic acid is pretty unstable, on the shelf and in the frying pan, so there's a good chance that whatever we ingest is usually already oxidized and damaged.

 

[teh_pwn]

I think this thread was better when it was about people losing weight and inspiring others, and not polluted with all the bickering over nutrition.

Way to miss the point.

While I agree that bickering over which approach is the best is off topic, I do think that understanding how nutrition and environment affect the body's hunger and metabolism is absolutely relevant to the topic. I don't understand why anyone would want to attempt to lose fat and keep it off without understand why the problem occurred in the first place.

I'm not saying that my understanding of the etiology is absolutely correct, infallible, and that everyone should do the same thing that I do.

I order Carlson's from Amazon. I suppose there's a chance it could be heat-damaged, but I haven't noticed any adverse effects from taking it the past couple years. I generally try to get my O3s from fresh fish, though.

Dietary intake of both Omega-3 and Omega-6 contribute to something called HUFA - highly unsaturated fatty acids. HUFA is stored in your cell membranes, and the proportion of Omega-3 to Omega-6 intake determines the composition of your tissue HUFA. If you eat a ton of vegetable oil and little fish, your tissue HUFA will be mostly Omega-6.

Eicosanoids are signaling molecules in the body. We use eicosanoids mostly to control inflammation and immunity, and we create eicosanoids from tissue HUFA. If your HUFA is Omega-6 dominant, the eicosanoids created will be highly inflammatory and blood clot-promoting; Omega-3 heavy HUFA creates less inflammatory eicosanoids. IL-6 is a highly inflammatory cytokine that's effective in small doses, but high O-6 HUFA leads to excessive amounts of IL-6 in response to inflammatory signaling.

Too much IL-6 may induce leptin resistance (by upregulating production of leptin receptor-binding SOCS-3), and too much tissue Omega-6 may increase heart disease. As Stephan shows, groups with the most Omega-3 HUFA (Japanese, Inuit) have the greatest heart health, while groups with more O-6 HUFA (like the USA) have the worst.

Plus, there's the fact that linoleic acid is pretty unstable, on the shelf and in the frying pan, so there's a good chance that whatever we ingest is usually already oxidized and damaged.

Thanks for the specifics rather than just omega6=inflammation. I like understanding why things are bad for us rather than just going with crowd mentality. I thought HFCS was bad for years without understanding why or that sugar wasn't really any better.

I'm already an Amazon Prime junkie (The UPS guy knows me by name and probably secretly hates me), so I'm trying out carlson's stuff.

 

[EzLink]

I went off the low carb diet for about a month, gained about four lbs back, and then started it up again 2 weeks ago. Lost 8.5 lbs the first week, but only 1.5 the second (despite consistently having 20 or fewer carbs a day)

Oh well, I am now officially at 200 lbs. My heaviest was 243 sometime last year.

I've kept thinking that my goal weight is around 180 or 185 (I'm 5'11) but it really seems like I have more than 15 more lbs to lose. Still got a big stomach and big man titties :/

 

[BertramCooper]

Ugh. I had a bad eating day. Such a terrible feeling. Damn you, ice cream sundaes. :lol

I'm trying not to freak out over it. I've lost over 50 pounds since March and there's no way I'm turning back.

 

[elrechazado]

I went off the low carb diet for about a month, gained about four lbs back, and then started it up again 2 weeks ago. Lost 8.5 lbs the first week, but only 1.5 the second (despite consistently having 20 or fewer carbs a day)

Oh well, I am now officially at 200 lbs. My heaviest was 243 sometime last year.

I've kept thinking that my goal weight is around 180 or 185 (I'm 5'11) but it really seems like I have more than 15 more lbs to lose. Still got a big stomach and big man titties :/

on most people those are the last to go, just keep working at it.

 

[Brashnir]

I think this thread was better when it was about people losing weight and inspiring others, and not polluted with all the bickering over nutrition.

Way to miss the point.

yeah, I'm about another page of this garbage from unsubscribing from the thread.

 

[Fio]

I lost about 40 pounds through straight calorie restricting and exercise. I was dangerously eating less than 1000 calories a day, and the weight loss had stopped and I didn't understand why. I read up on a lot of the things discussed in this thread (thanks to many posters for the great links), switched to no carbs, and have lost over 40 more. How did I do this? By eating more.

I basically eat up to two times more calories than I did in the first half of my diet (when I was losing the easy weight), and yet am losing pounds consistently each week.

So to recap, diet of about 1000-1100 calories a day (lotta grains, "healthy" granola bars, whole wheat, etc- body was maintaining, even with tons of exercise not losing a single pound anymore.
Diet of 2500+ (Often much more... I don't count anymore, I just don't eat carbs) of all sorts of "fatty" foods like butter and nuts and fish and steak and chicken and pork and leafy greens and all the rest, and I'm losing a few pounds a week, usually about 2. I'm also exercising less (chronic cardio was wrecking my knees, but I still run about 20 miles a week).

So how am I defying the laws of physics? 2x-3x the times of calories (and subtracting "calories out", because I exercise less now) should be 2x-3x the amount of weight gained, right physics majors?

Are you claiming that your body broke the laws of thermodynamics? If you're having a caloric deficit, you will definitely lose weight, period. What happened was that when you were eating around 1000 calories you metabolism slowed down to a crawl and your daily caloric deficit was really small, making weight loss almost imperceptible.

I will not argue against extremely low/zero cabs diets because I know from personal experience how they're incredible effective, but without a caloric deficit you will not burn fat, claiming otherwise is entering on superstition territory.