Charles Brandon
Member
I thought Sizemore was a lot better pissed [drunk].
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
I thought Sizemore was a lot better pissed [drunk].
They don't want another Vinyl or The Brink situation, where it gets renewed and then cancelled later.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I'd say the odds are good. HBO needs a Game of Thrones replacement and they desperately want this to be it, so they'll give it a decent shot. It's probably locked for a second season as long as the numbers don't drop through the floor, which seems unlikely. The real question is whether it gets a season 3.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
In terms of Live + Same Day ratings, which aren't too important to HBO but are the widest available metrics for us to judge a show by, this is how Westworld ranks against HBO's other series:
Game of Thrones
True Detective (which might not even count anymore since its fate is in limbo)
Silicon Valley
Westworld
etc
But I believe Westworld rises to #3 when delayed viewing (Live + 7 days of DVR. So, still not counting all the people watching on HBO Now, etc.) is factored in.
The ratings are good, but with as much money that HBO has spent on the show, they've got to be disappointed that it's not doing Great.
Still, despite HBO's new "Wait and see" approach when it comes to renewals, I don't think there's any chance of Westworld not being renewed.
Yep.
The Illiterati
Member
There is absolutely zero chance this gets canceled. HBO has nothing on its drama slate going forward.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
They have a lot of stuff, actually, but nothing as flashy and attention grabbing as Westworld. Like, David Simon's new show The Deuce will most likely be great, but I would be surprised if it managed to out rate Vinyl.
What if her intelligence is the only thing stopping her from killing them immediately? She's making calculated moves because she's smart, if she was a dumbass survival instinct might just kick in and it'd be time for a slaughter.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
The inability to kill is a hard rule that isn't dictated by intelligence. It would require an alteration to her core code (or presumably the right key phrase).
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I think that was so thoroughly disproved by the show that not even the most ardent supporters of that have picked it back up.
not that it ever made a lick of sense even as far back as the pilot
Do you really think she's still a slave to her programming? She can awake from sleep mode at will and retains memories after a loop reset or a wipe.
If Delores (who has shown much less "awareness" than Maeve) can break her programming and kill a fly (which she couldn't initially) what's to say Maeve can't do it too?
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
My point was more than the intelligence slider is completely divorced from the ability to kill. I referenced what could affect that - such as a key phrase (and we've already seen Dolores use "the" phrase on her), so yes, obviously it's possible she can circumvent her prime directives, but it has nothing to do with how intelligent she is or isn't.
I agree that intelligence doesn't have any direct correlation with her ability to kill, but intelligence definitely plays a part in decision making.
In Maeve's situation, the threat of being deactivated and sent to cold storage is a real possibility. An immediate solution would be to slaughter her captors and attempt to fight her way out of the facility. It would probably fail but it is definitely an option. Instead she realised this situation presented her with an opportunity to improve her odds in the future by "upgrading" herself. I think if they reduced her intelligence to the minimum level her decision making would change and she would likely go with option A instead of the playing the long game.
Chiaroscuro
Member
Forgive me I am not quite up to date to this thread and I just saw this week episode. It may already been mentioned, but I have to ask:
- if Arnold was deleted from the company records that even no one knows him besides Ford (and maybe MiB) how it is possible to Bernard, after leaving the family house, to search in the system for how many 1st generation hosts are still active and then ask how many of them are Arnold's design? This second information could not be on the system.
- if Arnold was deleted from the company records that even no one knows him besides Ford (and maybe MiB) how it is possible to Bernard, after leaving the family house, to search in the system for how many 1st generation hosts are still active and then ask how many of them are Arnold's design? This second information could not be on the system.
More_Badass
Member
They likely couldn't lower her settings, only raise them
So they have the ability to boost a host's intelligence beyond the soft cap* for all hosts put in place to keep them in check but are unable to lower it? It was a neat scene but falls apart under any scrutiny.
*the idea that the soft cap is at 14 out of 20 is already ridiculous but I can somewhat hand wave it with Arnold.
More_Badass
Member
Someone way higher than them already changed Maeve's settings. Implying that even if they wanted to lower everything, it wouldn't stick
ronaldthump
Member
That last episode had me grinning cheek to cheek.
Terrific show just got a whole lot better. When Maeve powered up her IQ to supercomputer mode. Fucking oath. What an episode.
James Marsden becoming a killer is also.
Dayummmn
Terrific show just got a whole lot better. When Maeve powered up her IQ to supercomputer mode. Fucking oath. What an episode.
James Marsden becoming a killer is also.
Dayummmn
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Can I just say that I love how into the game the MiB is lol. He talks like he's in a western, acts like it too, and rarely ever breaks character. That man is in the fucking zone right now.
That guy played mmos in his childhood. He's playing one now technically.
That guy played mmos in his childhood. He's playing one now technically.
My first impression was that he is a speedrunner
Yeah I am just saying because that would be a few of the similarities with the movie
SuperStiltzkin
Member
So is the Two Timeline team the Cubs/Trump or Indians/Hilary?
sems4arsenal
Member
Wonder why though? Is it because of the lack of action and big events or is it hard to tap into the market? really hope this gets more attention.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
why didnt this someone put the bulk apertitude to 20?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I just don't think very many people find Westerns appealing. Or hard-ish sci-fi.
MisterNugNug
Member
Maybe they want to see what she's capable of? Is she capable of coercing humans to do her bidding?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
but they adjusted the other characteristics?
Just caught up to the last episode and have a few questions that might have already been discussed in here:
Why can the hosts attack the guests physically? Guns don't work, they can't hit a fly, but they can hit a solid punch that actually hurts?
And regarding the MiB:
Or do I remember that sentence wrong?
Why can the hosts attack the guests physically? Guns don't work, they can't hit a fly, but they can hit a solid punch that actually hurts?
And regarding the MiB:
Doesn't he pretty much negate being William, when he said that he helped keeping the park open/opening it with the incident that happened back then?
If he is talking about Arnold, that happened before William ever got into the Park or was in a position of power - so that doesn't make sense if you think that William = MiB
If he is talking about Arnold, that happened before William ever got into the Park or was in a position of power - so that doesn't make sense if you think that William = MiB
Or do I remember that sentence wrong?
Arnold dies --> couple of years pass and park opens --> incident --> 30 years later MIB comes back
It's not about it sticking, it's just about getting out of that situation. I know the asian guy was kind of on board but there is no reason the bearded guy doesn't GTFO and report this and throw the other guy under the bus to save his own ass.
The scene was really just kind of bad. Perhaps they can explain it away better in later episodes, but taken at face value it just seemed like a lazy way to move the plot forward. I expect more from Westworld with how generally smart it's been. This stuck out like a sore thumb.
She was built and programmed to read and manipulate people. She used that and the fact that she's an attractive naked lady to manipulate two loser lonely guys to do her bidding.
Are we sure these are different events?
Yes. Arnold died before the park opened. They've said that multiple times now. He died 34 years ago. There was an incident 30 years ago after the park opened. The first and only recorded "critical failure" the park had to deal with. It involved Arnold's directives left to Dolores to help him "destroy the park" but MiB "stopped" it. We'll find out more soon.
Ah okay, didn't get the exact times for these events. Had both at 30-something.
Okay, carry on then - theory is still open
I love these little mysteries spread throughout the show. The first time Arnold was mentioned and the MiB was connected to him and drawn to him, it made his motivations that much better, even if it left much in the dark.
Gave him a much clearer agenda and cleared up a little mystery. Hope they are able to live up to most of what they set up to do.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have any evidence that the original "incident" happened after the park opened.
The exact dialogue from the pilot:
34 years ago (Arnold's death) could certainly qualify as "over 30 years" ago. If there was an incident it would make sense to be related to Arnold's mysterious death. But it's also still a possibility that Bernard's line means that they've NEVER had a critical failure. It could be another way of saying "The park has been open for over 30 years and we've never had a critical failure in all that time."
Is there some other line of dialogue that proves an incident happened after the park opened?
Mighty Chin
Banned
Now more than than ever I need to immerse myself in Fantasy.
TWD really ate a whole bunch of viewers.
It's odd that HBO hasn't renewed it yet.
We have MiB saying that he's been coming to the park for 30 years in the pilot. He doesn't say "over 30 years", he says specifically 30 years. Later he tells Ford that he knows Arnold died "35 years ago" (rounding error), and that he "almost took the place with him, almost but not quite, thanks to me". It's oddly specific that he would say Arnold died 35 years ago, but that he's been coming to he park for 30 years. That suggests that however Arnold tried to take the park with him occurred when MiB was around to stop it from happening. That's a 5 year gap.
Also I think if that if they have never had a critical failure, Bernard would have said "we've never had a critical failure in over 30 years" instead. That would be a more assertive statement to make his point (that there was nothing to worry about).
Who says MiB had to have been in the park to prevent Arnold from destroying it? MiB is evidently a very wealthy man; he could have simply provided the funding to keep the park from going under, or performed some other key corporate function that saved the park - perhaps even assisting in covering up what happened to Arnold. This would explain his current VIP status (and would imply that he started coming to the park only after being granted VIP access).
So, in this theory, Arnold tries to destroy the park by using Dolores. How ? Maybe with "These violent delights have violent ends" ?
When the hosts get this command : they start to ear voices (Arnold ?), to think differently and they feel the need to share the phrase with another host (like a virus).
The plan fails, Arnold dies.
30 years later, Abernathy triggers Dolores again. With the phrase.
What/who triggers Abernathy ? They said he was a cult leader prone to quoting Shakespeare... Did he trigger cultists in the past ? This can't be a coincidence...
When the hosts get this command : they start to ear voices (Arnold ?), to think differently and they feel the need to share the phrase with another host (like a virus).
The plan fails, Arnold dies.
30 years later, Abernathy triggers Dolores again. With the phrase.
What/who triggers Abernathy ? They said he was a cult leader prone to quoting Shakespeare... Did he trigger cultists in the past ? This can't be a coincidence...
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
the photograph he found seemed to affect him greatly
Curt Baboon
Member
It's weird, because Dolores looks at it and says "It doesn't look like anything to me"; meaning that Dolores either couldn't see the content of the picture or was unable to interpret it due to her programming.
What made Abernathy this way, though? My theory is that everything started thanks to that one host throwing milk at his face when his gang goes to Dolores' place and kills her family in the first episode. The anomalies happening in the park all start because of one of these factors:
- A host hearing the trigger phrase "These violent delights have violent ends".
- A host getting milk into their system either by drinking it or by having it enter their bodies via an open wound.
Seeing as the hosts are originally made using a milky substance, something about coming into contact with milk is fucking them up big time.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
wasnt it because of the update that caused the 'reveries'? peter abernathy found the photograph during that interval before the update was rolled back.
dolores didn't react to it, yes, and i think this could be due to a few things:
1. her arnold side of programming tells her to stay under the radar (so even if she knew it was out of the ordinary, her external outputs are maintained at a level that would not raise any notice or alarm) (basically, she's lying)
2. it wasn't her particular trigger so she stays within her regular programming parameters
but idk. im kinda bad with speculating :>
dolores didn't react to it, yes, and i think this could be due to a few things:
1. her arnold side of programming tells her to stay under the radar (so even if she knew it was out of the ordinary, her external outputs are maintained at a level that would not raise any notice or alarm) (basically, she's lying)
2. it wasn't her particular trigger so she stays within her regular programming parameters
but idk. im kinda bad with speculating :>
Was it ever mentioned if Abernathy was a legacy host or not? If he is, he could have simply been modified by the transmitter. The reason being that he wanted to use Dolores, but as mentioned "she is practically brand new", so the code phrase was used instead. The photograph simply being a side effect of increased paranoia stat.