Didn't that happen in episode 1 or 2?About Elsie...
there is an image in the trailer in where she kiss Maeve's worker (forget his name)
so i suppose she is fine (at least she is replaced with a host
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
I suspected that Bernard was a host but the reveal still left me legit shook.
From now on I'm just going to automatically assume that everyone on this show is a host. Ford has clearly been playing his game of 4th dimensional chess for a long while now and has probably even infiltrated the board with his host plants.
From now on I'm just going to automatically assume that everyone on this show is a host. Ford has clearly been playing his game of 4th dimensional chess for a long while now and has probably even infiltrated the board with his host plants.
I feel like the show has been very deliberate in its use of editing. Like duckroll said, picking a theory and watching it develop helps, but I still never had a problem with it.
It's also nice for Ford to have a fall guy. Something fucked up happens? Blame Bernard.
I think (and I sure as hell hope) there won't be any more character-we-thought-was-human-was-actually-a-host reveals. I feel like you can only play that card once for it to be effective. Doing it with Bernard made sense, especially if he's Arnold. In any other future case it will just look like a parlour trick.
wesleyshark
Banned
And now also Teresa as I bet he's making a host copy of her in that basement
Great ep.
With everybody focusing on the Bernard reveal and Teresa's fate, I wanted to touch a bit about DOlores' and William's story arc.
Anyone else reminded of Teddy's story arc when William was saying he had to go back because he has a fiance?
How weird would 8t be if William=MiB is confirmed, that Teddy's narrative (hinted at since the dropped can event) is entirely based on your own person. Would you hate the robot portraying yourself (as MiB seemingly does, although he seems to be warming up, specially in the light of "I don't know you as well as I thought".
With everybody focusing on the Bernard reveal and Teresa's fate, I wanted to touch a bit about DOlores' and William's story arc.
Anyone else reminded of Teddy's story arc when William was saying he had to go back because he has a fiance?
How weird would 8t be if William=MiB is confirmed, that Teddy's narrative (hinted at since the dropped can event) is entirely based on your own person. Would you hate the robot portraying yourself (as MiB seemingly does, although he seems to be warming up, specially in the light of "I don't know you as well as I thought".
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
That was me. My eyes grew twice their size at that moment, with the thought of him being a host almost a certainty. Ending was incredible, I loved it. Having the man she likely loved IMO kill her is such a fucked up way to screw with someone. Really messed up, makes for great writing though.
If he makes Theresa, that would be even more messed up lol..
biggersmaller
Banned
This ep made it clear Delos cares much more about the Westworld IP and storylines than the park itself. All of this shit with the board is to get Ford out before he hits the delete key on a bunch of content. It's really a brilliant commentary on the "content is king" corporate culture we live in. Except the content creator in this case currently enjoys substantial control, which is the real fantasy of the show.
Ford is Kojima, Westworld is MGSV, and Delos wants to get Ford away from his creations to make Westworld slot machines.
Are you sure? The way I read into it was that they didn't care at all about the hosts, storylines, IP or the park. What they did care about was the AI and tech.
Arnold was already dead by the time William gets to the park, even if it was 30 years ago.
Arnold died 34, years ago, and part of the reason they are their is Logan tells him the park was created by partners but one died mysteriously and they are bleeding money and ripe for a takeover.
Plus Dolores was Arnold's plan to destroy the park after his death.
Supermanisdead
Member
"what door" like omfggggggggg I was shook. This show is so good
Askherserenity
Member
Woah...you really think there's no rhyme or reason to the editing? Look closer. Most of the time scenes usually lead to one another and offer hints/insights to some mysteries.
Askherserenity
Member
Episode 1 I believe lol
biggersmaller
Banned
Maybe I missed something, but the impression I felt was that Ford is obsessed with story telling. That's the only thing Ford could potentially "destroy" at any given moment. AI and tech is something a company like Delos would be already able to exploit if they wanted as they own the park. An employee like Elsie would take a promotion and work without Ford and essentially do whatever Delos asks wherever they ask her.
shawnbuddy
Member
I wonder if Bernard was really doing coding and creative work, or if that was Ford behind the scenes. Because making machines that can make better machines is the tipping point for an AI takeover.
Not evil? He just had his coworker murdered, possibly even replacing her with a host.
Pretty sure Delos just wants the code/AI. They give no fucks about Fords storyline other than its using a bunch of Delos resources.
BattleMonkey
Member
She's blackmailed them into doing it
It's the tech and AI they want the reason they are afraid of Ford destroying everything is because the code is all in the park, hence the stealing code. They even say in the episode they have no clue how the hosts work so they need to placate Ford without him destroying all his work so they can actually be in control and figure out the code that drives the tech and A.I.
I think you will find the kicker is Ford doesn't really know either, the secret of how it all really works died with Arnold.
AI tech doesn't quite work like that. Elsie's experience is relatively useless without the actual code. AI matures over when allowed to develop and iterate and learn. Ford has some deal which locks all the code inside the park itself.
wesleyshark
Banned
Jeffrey Wright is at the top of his game. I love every scene he's in. Hopkins is, of course, fantastic. Evan is mesmerizing.
Hell, Jimmi Simpson is also great. Ed Harris. Thandie.
The list goes on and on. This cast is perfect.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The Bernard-Dolores interactions does have Bernard wearing that black trenchcoat thing, which might suggest it's actually Arnold. We shall see.
More_Badass
Member
That moment when Bernard was realizing and trying to accept the truth was heartbreaking.
Shambalakan
Member
Frank the Great
Banned
So does this mean there are at least THREE timelines?
1. Arnold coaching Dolores
2. The Adventures of McPoyle and Dolores
3. Maeve/MiB/Mad scientist Ford/Bernard
Pretty cheap to have editing tricks obscure three timelines like this just for shock value at the end of the season.
1. Arnold coaching Dolores
2. The Adventures of McPoyle and Dolores
3. Maeve/MiB/Mad scientist Ford/Bernard
Pretty cheap to have editing tricks obscure three timelines like this just for shock value at the end of the season.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
At least it explains why they don't just make robots outside the park and have them be soldiers or servants or whatever you'd use them for. Imagine catering to the whims of a crazy man for 30 years in hopes that you can finally cash in on the technology after he dies.
Sevenfold
Member
Great fun to dissect though.
Regarding the MiB = young William theory, it all makes sense to me except how if true then Dolores has been close to questioning her reality for 30+ years? Or was that how she was designed and programmed by Arnold?
So then she was able to shoot someone back then with young William and then again in the "present" in the barn.
So then she was able to shoot someone back then with young William and then again in the "present" in the barn.
Cornballer
Member
- Dr. Fords Blood Sacrifice: Westworld (HBO vid, youtube)
So for the season finale, what do you think we'll be looking at? It's 91 minutes, so basically a TV movie finale.
I'm thinking:
- Dolores/William get into the deepest part of the park (PAST)
- Dolores/MiB get into the deepest part of the park (PRESENT)
- Maeve leads her rebellion and breaks out, showing us a glimpse of where Westworld really is
- Both the parties going IN and OUT are playing into Ford's masterplan which he has been setting up, to draw Arnold out
- Bernard comes to terms with the truth behind Arnold
I'm thinking:
- Dolores/William get into the deepest part of the park (PAST)
- Dolores/MiB get into the deepest part of the park (PRESENT)
- Maeve leads her rebellion and breaks out, showing us a glimpse of where Westworld really is
- Both the parties going IN and OUT are playing into Ford's masterplan which he has been setting up, to draw Arnold out
- Bernard comes to terms with the truth behind Arnold
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Wow
I officially in love with this show.
spectacular eps
I officially in love with this show.
spectacular eps
They're so hard to watch at times. Why even let this happen.
CrankyKong
Member
Am I right in thinking its actually Arnold interviewing Dolores in the past, and everything else is Bernard in the present?
It never made sense when she was interviewed but then a few scenes later she was out with William and Logan.
It never made sense when she was interviewed but then a few scenes later she was out with William and Logan.
Cornballer
Member
A few more interviews:
- THR: 'Westworld' Creators Explain "Terrible," "Devastating" Game-Changing Reveal
- THR: 'Westworld' Star Jeffrey Wright Goes Inside That Big Twist
- THR: 'Westworld' Creators Explain "Terrible," "Devastating" Game-Changing Reveal
- THR: 'Westworld' Star Jeffrey Wright Goes Inside That Big Twist
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'm kind of assuming the situation is something like this:
1 Arnold and Ford brainstorm lifelike androids, with Arnold being the programmer who designs a strategy for lifelike AI and Ford being the engineer and designer for the hosts physically and planner for the park.
2 Arnold becomes obsessed with making strong AI and like a lot of obsessives he doesn't share everything with Ford, particularly if Ford thought it was a waste of time. Arnold dies, and Ford discovers the source, or what have you, for the base program in the hosts' digital brains can't be found. They can obviously copy and distribute it since brand new hosts can be printed from scratch. But they can't modify it past a certain point and don't know how it works.
3 Delos came up with ideas for how the technology could be valuable beyond entertainment and consider the park live research and development. An ongoing public beta test where the guests don't know they're testers. Ford simultaneously spars with Delos for control, and becomes fixated on what Arnold was trying to do. Perhaps he knows Dolores is special, the focus of Arnold's experiment. Maybe Bernard was created in part so that Ford could examine the interaction of one AI interrogating other AIs, looking for clues as to how the hosts actually work.
4 The "new storyline" Ford is planning might be the culmination of Ford's observations of how the hosts think. Maybe he wants to create a scenario that finally brings something out, or reveals secrets doesn't know. Perhaps Ford thinks "The Maze" leads to a back door Arnold built into the base programming. Or perhaps he suspects it is part of an experiment Dolores was designed to run and Ford wants to see its conclusion.
1 Arnold and Ford brainstorm lifelike androids, with Arnold being the programmer who designs a strategy for lifelike AI and Ford being the engineer and designer for the hosts physically and planner for the park.
2 Arnold becomes obsessed with making strong AI and like a lot of obsessives he doesn't share everything with Ford, particularly if Ford thought it was a waste of time. Arnold dies, and Ford discovers the source, or what have you, for the base program in the hosts' digital brains can't be found. They can obviously copy and distribute it since brand new hosts can be printed from scratch. But they can't modify it past a certain point and don't know how it works.
3 Delos came up with ideas for how the technology could be valuable beyond entertainment and consider the park live research and development. An ongoing public beta test where the guests don't know they're testers. Ford simultaneously spars with Delos for control, and becomes fixated on what Arnold was trying to do. Perhaps he knows Dolores is special, the focus of Arnold's experiment. Maybe Bernard was created in part so that Ford could examine the interaction of one AI interrogating other AIs, looking for clues as to how the hosts actually work.
4 The "new storyline" Ford is planning might be the culmination of Ford's observations of how the hosts think. Maybe he wants to create a scenario that finally brings something out, or reveals secrets doesn't know. Perhaps Ford thinks "The Maze" leads to a back door Arnold built into the base programming. Or perhaps he suspects it is part of an experiment Dolores was designed to run and Ford wants to see its conclusion.
do you mean Teddy/MiB? where's Dolores in the Teddy badass timeline?
She'll be waiting for them in the center.
Cornballer
Member
I still remain very confident that they're going to renew it, but I'm also surprised that they haven't done it yet. I think a lot of it comes down to HBO having new management, and they're being a little more cautious about renewing programming. Particularly in this case because it represents a huge investment for them. (Last I checked, estimates had Westworld at ~10% of their production budget.) The only other show they're spending that much on is GoT, and that's clearly a winner that drives their subscription base.
Perhaps they just want more information before officially making the decision about it. The Sunday night timeslot has been littered with high profile competition this Fall (The Walking Dead, presidential debate, NFL, etc...), and HBO wants to get a better idea of the time-shifted numbers and staying power for Westworld. We don't have access to much of that information, so it's tricky to say how the show is performing aside from the same day numbers holding up pretty well so far.
Also, note that Bloys, the new HBO president, has spoken favorably about the show's ratings:
In addition, a few of the cast and the producers have said similar things about Season 2.Bloys said:
Back to waiting...