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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Cornballer
Member
I think most networks, and HBO in particular, are aware these days that it's a lot better to give an established show the chance to create a proper ending. The only things that they're canceling abruptly are unmitigated disasters in terms of ratings.
the Bernard reveal was pretty neat. I mean, lots of us saw it coming (I think his son was the same boy Dorothy encountered at the river when she was painting?), and I suspected that he was going to kill her before they even entered the elevator, but it was well-done nonetheless. What I'm wondering about, though - were the board members hosts too? Was it all an elaborate plan? How did Ford know about the "blood sacrifice", the specific wording in particular?
The board member was banging Hector, who is a host, and hosts record all transmissions. Ford clearly was monitoring it, and threw it back in her face as an "did you really think you could best me?" type of killing blow.
More_Badass
Member
Bernard will kill Ford. He'll join forces with Maeve going forward
Yup, it was meant to show her how he's always fifteen steps ahead of them and us that he really is an omnipresent god of his domain. In here, he controls all and knows all.
badcrumble
Member
I think the puzzle-box approach works for season 1 of this show but I honestly can't see it working in future seasons (and I really don't want it to). I understand the notion that we're only really going to understand what the show's long arc is about at the end of this season, but I hope we actually do know that.
The Bernard reveal was a good moment when it happened, but it killed off an interesting character *and* it made Bernard less interesting.
badcrumble
Member
And, I suspect, the fact that the park's basically collected 100% accurate data on the 'true selves' of everyone who's ever gone there (all of whom are the wealthiest people in society). Think of it as being like super-Facebook or super-Google.
More_Badass
Member
It will lead him on a journey of self-discovery to learn more about Arnold and continue his legacy
Plus their biological data...
good point
this is a pretty strong theory, I didn't notice it but the similarities are there. Things get complicated now that we know Dolores was already on the way to the "maze" before she even met William, meaning her solo trip could have either been her first trip or a third one (that we know of), concurrently with the MiB
ok, so we already solved that mystery, too
welp... I think the 2 timelines theory might be correct. Bernard being a host / maybe the real Arnold at some point is too much. Didn't really like the William turn on the train to be totally in robot love and now "mib". They did the Bernard twist really well so hopefully they can pull this off.
Also I think dolores is currently in the maze reviewing the totality of her life... the maze being cold storage. Cooling malfunction is allowing them to slowly wake up.
Also I think dolores is currently in the maze reviewing the totality of her life... the maze being cold storage. Cooling malfunction is allowing them to slowly wake up.
Blue Ninja
Member
Well, he is building a new host, probably to replace Theresa?
More_Badass
Member
So we'll finally see what we find if we open him up?
A coworker stealing his intellectual property, and the face of the corporation he loves to hate. Not entirely evil, IMO.
I'm certainly not awaiting his downfall.
Frank the Great
Banned
In what universe is premeditated murder not entirely evil? Damn.
I believe they all record everything while sleeping and that this was revealed earlier in the season (when elsie blackmailed the tech)
a tiny problem I have the Arnold = Bernard theory, if anyone at all knew how Arnold looked like and ran into Bernard, or if anyone would see the picture of him in Ford's office, it would reveal everything immediately. On the other hand, the anagram thing really is a dead giveaway unless they're intentionally toying with the audience
biggersmaller
Banned
You are all right. The code is what is important, not some cowboy fantasy. I missed a couple of those lines.
I hope those two are being written so we are somewhat relieved when Maeve slaughters them.
One where a man has been made numb to the horrors of violence and murder because he has been working in isolation from the outside world for four decades creating a twisted eden where visitors can indulge in the most extreme levels of rape, murder, violence, and fornication without any repercussions. That sort of universe.
Doors are so hot right now.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally I think William allowing himself to fall in love with Dolores is required to form the basis on the MiB's all-consuming obsession. (If William is the MiB.) It would frame the MiB's brutal yet calculating treatment of hosts with a sense of resentment. They once tricked his naive younger self into believing a fantasy. Hell hath no fury like a burned fanboy.
From there he became fixed on justifying his embarrassing lapse of judgement by incorporating it into an epic narrative of himself as the "villain" of Westworld and the person who would uncover a great secret and prove he was responding to something real (the MiB's specific words on what he thinks the park is hiding).
Ha ha, it might depend on just what that white protein is that they weave the hosts from.
... wouldn't it be creepy if it turns out it's some kind of future wonder-protein that is used around the world to solve many problems, from growing food to repairing the human body.
From there he became fixed on justifying his embarrassing lapse of judgement by incorporating it into an epic narrative of himself as the "villain" of Westworld and the person who would uncover a great secret and prove he was responding to something real (the MiB's specific words on what he thinks the park is hiding).
Ha ha, it might depend on just what that white protein is that they weave the hosts from.
... wouldn't it be creepy if it turns out it's some kind of future wonder-protein that is used around the world to solve many problems, from growing food to repairing the human body.
Actually I think this episode answered this question in that there's only Westworld hence the whole freakout about Ford deleting the data.
Not necessarily. Westworld could simply be the best of them because of Ford. Maybe the other Delos Destinations are pale imitations and it's affecting their brand, hence their desperation to get the data out sooner rather than later.
One of the signs says "Westworld: A Delos Experience" or something like that, so perhaps there are other "experiences" out there.
But for pure dollars and cents, no way is HBO going to sink another $100M into a medieval theme or whatever when they've got all those existing western sets/costumes built.
Logan says at one point that Ford's partner is a complete mystery and his lawyers couldn't find his name or "even a picture"
the anagram is pure speculation -- we don't know Arnold's last name.
if they introduce Rome-world at some point, they're required to do a Lucius Vorenos and Titus Pollo cameo
oh, I just assumed it was mentioned before
Frank the Great
Banned
I don't see how any of that justifies a premeditated murder as "not evil"! Plenty of killers are numb to horrors, that's not an excuse.
Face it, Hopkins is evil as fuck. A person's charisma doesn't excuse their abhorrent behavior . . . Although, judging by current events, maybe it does . . .
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
With swords and bows and arrows? The safety stuff would be difficult to portray.
The safety aspect is gobbledygook even in the Western setting. Best not to think about it too much.
Veritigo_X
Member
We do know Bernard's last name, it's been said multiple times. The speculation is Arnold's last name.
More_Badass
Member
Which doesnt excuse it in any way.
I think this is definitely possible. It depends on how closely the producers and writers plan on following the original source material by Crichton and the movie. Future seasons could be set in Roman World or Medieval World and still deal with the larger Delos related plot points.
Maybe they still have the rome sets somewhere.
oops, that is what I meant, thanks
Haha maybe, but I seem to recall that pretty much everything from Rome/Deadwood was destroyed. Maybe not.
Hidden door magically materializing in front of viewers prove that they've been giving us skewed perspective all along. Can't trust anything you've seen from a host perspective, even if you didn't know they were a host. Makes me want to go back and watch every Bernard scene again
It almost works on some deeper level, giving the viewer the frustrations that would exist as a host if you cannot trust your own eyes
It almost works on some deeper level, giving the viewer the frustrations that would exist as a host if you cannot trust your own eyes
Aren't they using the Deadwood sets for this?
Veritigo_X
Member
Why would anyone want to go to Baltimoreworld?
SwiftDeath
Member
I actually did find the reveal to be anything but subtle. The door dialogue and acting was great, and then in the basement both Wright and Hopkins acted the hell out of their lines but there's little things I think they could have done better.
Like the scene could have played out the same way but instead of showing us, the audience the Bernard specs/diagram prior to Bernard freaking out, they could've had scene play out, Bernard kill Theresa at Ford's behest and then the diagram falls to the floor for us to see, then at that moment as Bernard is killing Theresa show the absolute evidence that Bernard is a host.
I'm a little conflicted because Wright acted that scene fantastically as written but do feel they wasted an opportunity for at least an ounce of subtlety
The original Westworld movie hosts are machines designed and made by other machines. Head scientist of the park specifically state they do not understand exactly how the machines work. It feels like the same thing is happening in TV Westworld although maybe they don't understand's Arnolds code vs a machine made code.
I feel like Arnold and Ford strongly disagreed about what hosts were meant for/should be used for.
Arnold appears to have addressed hosts while clothed while they make a big scene out of Ford showing a new behaviorist that you should absolutely not treat the hosts within the base respect a human would get.
I cannot believe that Ford wants a robot uprising. He repeats throughout that this is his world above anything else [i.e. that he considers himself god here[.
I think Ford is actively trying to stop Arnold but Arnold is the better coder/better engineer even if he's just a subconscious floating around the park
I wouldn't consider number 1 (Arnold coaching Dolores) a timeline so much as flashbacks personally
I'm not sure Dolores will meet up with MiB before the maze, maybe like some have suggested Dolores is already at the Maze or heading there herself but MiB lied to Teddy about Dolores being captured I had thought so not sure she is part of the storyline really.
I actually think Ford is playing directly into Arnold's masterplan
All stories probably lead to the maze, whatever that will be [actual physical area of the park maybe with Arnold's subconscious or a key to arnold's code? ; Special code within each host that getting activated? ; cold storage?]
There's a lot of questions regarding the maze still to be answered.
Lawrences Daughter specifically tells Mib that the Maze is not for him and I am convinced that the Maze is still Arnold's creation and not Ford's narrative.
In any scenario, you have to ask who the Maze is for then.
Alternatively Kissy having the maze tattoo on the inside of his scalp might suggest Ford is controlling all aspects of the maze but that's boring to me so I'll ship my own theory on it. Either kissy is an original or Arnold has can influence the creation of new hosts somehow [Ghost in the machine style]