killer rin
Member
Man, that twist at the end of the episode. I legitimately did not see that coming. Poor Theresa. I also fear that Elsie is a goner now
What if the doctor said that
What if the doctor said that
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Are the mods human, or are they all modbots?
Garrett 2U
Member
I knew from the start of this episode that Bernard was a host version of Arnold.
The equipment that his son is being treated with in the hospital is not future tech.
Furthermore, we already know that in the current timeline, people don't die of disease.
There isn't supposed to be a huge time gap between the death of Bernard's son and current events.
But his son must have died many decades ago, therefore the current Bernard had to be a host.
And he was most likely Arnold given the fact that he couldn't see himself in the non-centered photo of Ford and Arnold.
However, the reveal was very satisfying with "What door" and "It doesn't seem like anything to me".
The Mad Hatter story clearly influenced the design of Westworld, and the desire to recreate his son is what drove him to achieve consciousness in the hosts.
The revelation that Arnold was actually interviewing Dolores in the past is exciting as well!
The equipment that his son is being treated with in the hospital is not future tech.
Furthermore, we already know that in the current timeline, people don't die of disease.
There isn't supposed to be a huge time gap between the death of Bernard's son and current events.
But his son must have died many decades ago, therefore the current Bernard had to be a host.
And he was most likely Arnold given the fact that he couldn't see himself in the non-centered photo of Ford and Arnold.
However, the reveal was very satisfying with "What door" and "It doesn't seem like anything to me".
The Mad Hatter story clearly influenced the design of Westworld, and the desire to recreate his son is what drove him to achieve consciousness in the hosts.
The revelation that Arnold was actually interviewing Dolores in the past is exciting as well!
What if you were at the urinals with your buddy and he peaked over the divider and said that?
#topical
I was a bit disappointed in this week's episode removing the last two even slightly sympathetic human female characters. Maybe it's just bad timing with this week, but I was not happy to see yet another typical HBO violence against women scene where she couldn't do a damn thing to save herself.
I honestly don't want to root for Maeve (cause of the stupidity of the techs in the story) or Dolores, especially since she's the "other woman" now.
So I feel like a bit of my motivation to keep up with the story is gone now, since MiB is the only person who still has interesting motivation to reveal for me.
InfiniteBento
Member
yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i was not expecting that plot twist at all.
anthony hopkins is ruthless.
im legit shook
anthony hopkins is ruthless.
im legit shook
Man you could pull some really savage office pranks on your coworkers if you worked at Westworld. Replace people's mirrors with static images of the room the mirror would be reflecting so they think they're a host but why would they be edited out of their own view??
Right? And he doesn't even show up in half the dang episodes.
Right? And he doesn't even show up in half the dang episodes.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Tony is 2 spooky 4 me. He's chilling.
Poor Bernard.
No MIB/Teddy action this week. Damn, I wanna see more of their hijinks.
Yay, Logan wasn't here.
Two techs are still stupid as balls.
Poor Clemmy.
lol, William, you're in too deep! Balls deep.
So I wonder if Dolores and William are gonna cross the river and wind up at The Mesa hub.
Poor Bernard.
No MIB/Teddy action this week. Damn, I wanna see more of their hijinks.
Yay, Logan wasn't here.
Two techs are still stupid as balls.
Poor Clemmy.
lol, William, you're in too deep! Balls deep.
So I wonder if Dolores and William are gonna cross the river and wind up at The Mesa hub.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Okay, so first thought I had about this episode is the visible different look, where there is even quite a bit of front projection, I think. There is definitely an exchange between 'throw money at it' versus 'less money, more establishing', where right of the bat we get to hear Delos's interest, relation to Ford, WHERE the control tower is in the park (seriously, we had to wait seven episodes on that one), and other things that really could have been signaled before.
Anyway:
I did accept that Bernard was going to be a host, but the how was still well done. The why however, eh. It's nice to see Hopkins go full Lecter, but it's a strange game when he rejected, or claims to, Arnold's views of the hosts. Is he trying to change the hosts or just maintain control of the park? He's clearly willing to murder for it (speaking of which: ehm, cleanup?), but I don't see what his motive could be if he's not trying to change the hosts or world. His speech against self-awareness would suggest 'no change', but then we have to ask what his new storyline is.
Also, it does create trouble with time (sigh. Aw my pride). Ford=Arnold is now thrown out, since it was going to be either one or the other in my mind.
And with the design drawings, which I believe are Arnold's work since the second is the boy, aging appears to be a 'clear' human property now. All models made by Arnold did not age since being build. It does raise the question who Dolores is / was to Arnold. Ford does say they're not friends ("at all"), so there is some type of conflict between them. She is the first host after all, even before Ford's 'family'. Ford's words in this episode about the peacock ("...self-loathing, guilt." With the emphasis on guilt) may be relevant. Maybe he used Dolores to backstab Arnold?
Additionally, William's route with Dolores appears to be in reverse of MiB's: the trees we saw him in with Teddy were the same as with the horse chase in this one, and I'm fairly sure we've seen that river bend before with MiB too, and Lawrence became the hangman outfit at the end there, so... yeah. Either that, or they ran out of money to have different sets.
I hope Elsie isn't gone, but the only other person who could have made extensive changes in hosts and spoken to them in the voice of Arnold, is probably the guy himself, so that's where we're at: "bitches I'm still alive". Does explain the doll house though.
But you'd think Ford would know about this since Elsie told Bernard. Eh.
Also I'm with the Bernard is Arnold's replica model. Ford did say he was very loyal, whereas he disagreed with Arnold's view.
And the line on 'how far these people are willing to go' does imply that all the butchers are hosts too. Would explain their shitty backstory. I mean, why would you hire humans for the maintenance part, giving direct access to your IP, when you have hosts in management to prevent that? Well, we're in CYLON? CYLON! territory now anyway.
I was imagining that the hosts may literally dissolve if they tried to leave the park. That might be fun. Such an extreme system could not be on Earth though. Not without a dome that is impossible to build. If the sky is meant to be real, then Westworld is on a terraformed planet. Wanna bet Dolores looking at the moon is going to turn out to be fake too? Probably Earth.
Anyway:
I did accept that Bernard was going to be a host, but the how was still well done. The why however, eh. It's nice to see Hopkins go full Lecter, but it's a strange game when he rejected, or claims to, Arnold's views of the hosts. Is he trying to change the hosts or just maintain control of the park? He's clearly willing to murder for it (speaking of which: ehm, cleanup?), but I don't see what his motive could be if he's not trying to change the hosts or world. His speech against self-awareness would suggest 'no change', but then we have to ask what his new storyline is.
Also, it does create trouble with time (sigh. Aw my pride). Ford=Arnold is now thrown out, since it was going to be either one or the other in my mind.
And with the design drawings, which I believe are Arnold's work since the second is the boy, aging appears to be a 'clear' human property now. All models made by Arnold did not age since being build. It does raise the question who Dolores is / was to Arnold. Ford does say they're not friends ("at all"), so there is some type of conflict between them. She is the first host after all, even before Ford's 'family'. Ford's words in this episode about the peacock ("...self-loathing, guilt." With the emphasis on guilt) may be relevant. Maybe he used Dolores to backstab Arnold?
Additionally, William's route with Dolores appears to be in reverse of MiB's: the trees we saw him in with Teddy were the same as with the horse chase in this one, and I'm fairly sure we've seen that river bend before with MiB too, and Lawrence became the hangman outfit at the end there, so... yeah. Either that, or they ran out of money to have different sets.
I hope Elsie isn't gone, but the only other person who could have made extensive changes in hosts and spoken to them in the voice of Arnold, is probably the guy himself, so that's where we're at: "bitches I'm still alive". Does explain the doll house though.
But you'd think Ford would know about this since Elsie told Bernard. Eh.
Also I'm with the Bernard is Arnold's replica model. Ford did say he was very loyal, whereas he disagreed with Arnold's view.
And the line on 'how far these people are willing to go' does imply that all the butchers are hosts too. Would explain their shitty backstory. I mean, why would you hire humans for the maintenance part, giving direct access to your IP, when you have hosts in management to prevent that? Well, we're in CYLON? CYLON! territory now anyway.
I was imagining that the hosts may literally dissolve if they tried to leave the park. That might be fun. Such an extreme system could not be on Earth though. Not without a dome that is impossible to build. If the sky is meant to be real, then Westworld is on a terraformed planet. Wanna bet Dolores looking at the moon is going to turn out to be fake too? Probably Earth.
That last scene was superb.
Confirms for me what I said weeks ago; Arnold's voice is Jeffrey Wright's, and the scenes with Bernard and Dolores are actually Arnold and Dolores. I didn't notice it last week, but the reverse angle of the basement, showing the stairs, is what confirmed that the basement lab is where those conversations were taking place. Combine that with the other clues, and it's undeniable that Bernard is host Arnold.
Arnold's code, however, is a different beast entirely.
I hypothesized that Ford was growing weary of Delos, and was allowing Arnold's vision to come to fruition...I'm still not 100% though.
However, how can a man who has that much control and knowledge of the park, not know about Arnold's ghost in the machine? With the reverie update, combined with his new narrative, I'm still edging towards Ford being complicit in Arnold's goal being finally reached.
Confirms for me what I said weeks ago; Arnold's voice is Jeffrey Wright's, and the scenes with Bernard and Dolores are actually Arnold and Dolores. I didn't notice it last week, but the reverse angle of the basement, showing the stairs, is what confirmed that the basement lab is where those conversations were taking place. Combine that with the other clues, and it's undeniable that Bernard is host Arnold.
Arnold's code, however, is a different beast entirely.
I hypothesized that Ford was growing weary of Delos, and was allowing Arnold's vision to come to fruition...I'm still not 100% though.
However, how can a man who has that much control and knowledge of the park, not know about Arnold's ghost in the machine? With the reverie update, combined with his new narrative, I'm still edging towards Ford being complicit in Arnold's goal being finally reached.
The butchers seem heavily limited in their possibilities. They hardly have permissions, so they only see the bodies while it is the programming that seems mostly to be protected.
Who says he doesn't? There's no indication at all that Ford is unaware of what is going on. On the contrary, the questions he asks Dolores, the "narrative" he is building which recreates the old Church and town, the old notebook he has with the maze in it, his conversation with MiB, everything points to him being aware of what's happening but it may be the one thing that is outside of his control. It seems more like a sort of cat and mouse game than one person being aware that there is another player.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Bernard nooooooooooo
More_Badass
Member
Oh, he's probably is. Maybe he wants to twist Arnold's endgame and have the destruction wipe out Delos, letting him rule over his private world in peace. While the MIB is doing the opposite, trying to reach the maze before Dolores so he can help her achieve Arnold's desired goal.
headexploding.gif
NoPiece
Member
Do you think it is too early to tell? Because they are choosing to focus on mysteries/reveals, it obscures any point of view. When the show or season is over, and everything is out in the open, then it will be easier to judge.
From AV Club's review of this week's episode:
I think this articulates my feelings of the show quite well. I've felt this way about it since the first episode, but have stuck with it on the promise that it will deliver. I remember reading somewhere that it gets good 4-5 episodes into the season, and so I stuck with it. I don't think it's a bad show and I think that's an unfair critique for most works. Anyway, I'll reserve judgment for the season finale and the first episode of season 2, because when I hear that the show's trying to stick around for 5-6 seasons...I just.../sigh
I think this articulates my feelings of the show quite well. I've felt this way about it since the first episode, but have stuck with it on the promise that it will deliver. I remember reading somewhere that it gets good 4-5 episodes into the season, and so I stuck with it. I don't think it's a bad show and I think that's an unfair critique for most works. Anyway, I'll reserve judgment for the season finale and the first episode of season 2, because when I hear that the show's trying to stick around for 5-6 seasons...I just.../sigh
Sorry, that was more of a rhetorical question.
As I said, I'm edging towards Ford wanting to finish what Arnold trying to start. Destroy the park doesn't necessarily mean literally destroying the park....just breaking down the walls.
Either the maze is like the solution to anomalies much like the One is to the Matrix, or Ford is deliberately trying to engineer Arnold's success through the reverie update and his literal uncovering of the past.
There was a line this week, regarding the reverie update, whereby someone suggested to Ford that he didn't write it....makes you wonder, if he didn't, and he allowed it anyway, just what his motivations are.
NoPiece
Member
It was interesting that when Bernard was giving the self awareness test to Hector, the city in the picture was Shanghai. The other pictures were a tech in a bunny suit and a high speed train, both images also potentially associated with China.
So maybe the Westworld location is out in the huge deserts in western China, or the Gobi desert in Mongolia. That would be remote even from major Chinese cities, and extremely remote for travelers/employees from the US. And if you were going to try a crazy huge project like this, China is probably one of the few plausible countries that would allow it.
So maybe the Westworld location is out in the huge deserts in western China, or the Gobi desert in Mongolia. That would be remote even from major Chinese cities, and extremely remote for travelers/employees from the US. And if you were going to try a crazy huge project like this, China is probably one of the few plausible countries that would allow it.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Gaaaah, first you reminded me of Lost, and now this terrible movie?!
WHEN WILL IT END?!
I didn't get it until he said that.... I figured maybe he legit just missed the door T_T
When he said "It doesn't look like anything to me" I wanted to pass out man. Not my boy!
Bruh! If they do this!
I think we've been stumbling around the maze for a while; I doubt it's actually a place. The path to find it is merely the journey necessary to reach that moment of transcendence. Dolores' quest for the maze is more about her retracing her steps, following the clues that lead to her eventual enlightenment.
Teddy's story on it is interesting. I wonder who the original source of the story is...Arnold? The elaborate maze that was originally and supposedly buIlt...I wonder if that's Westworld itself.
The high speed rail picture Bernard used is specifically the Taiwan High Speed Rail that travels between Kaohsiung and Taipei.
Wasn't this movie directed by Christopher Nolan's old cinematographer? The connections continue!
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I wish the episode didn't treat people like idiots with the Bernard reveal. They might as well have had a giant caption on the bottom of the screen for the 4 people who didn't get it.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
A security anomaly and you want me to come with you alone Bernard? Why aren't we getting security personnel Bernard?
Also I had a feeling something was up when he asked Elsie if she was alone. Suspicious question to ask.
But why hide it? We saw Ford using robots as straight up slave labor on his agave plantation and in constructing a ~new story~. If you're going to have a robo workforce, just have a robo workforce.
This is some "Final Fantasy XIII gets good thirty hours in tho!!" kinda thing.
Hopkins the GOAT. Ending was full blown Hannibal Lecter "there there, musn't get worked up".
Thinking they're saving the William = MiB reveal for the finale. Becomes more and more obvious every episode "you're growing an inclination for killing" or whatever Lawrence said to him.
Thinking they're saving the William = MiB reveal for the finale. Becomes more and more obvious every episode "you're growing an inclination for killing" or whatever Lawrence said to him.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
" (?) Dolores will remember that"
I don't get the door hint just a few seconds before they start the "HE'S A HOST!" dance.
All the rooms are bugged. He's playing everyone like a damn fiddle.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yeah. Room could be bugged. Or Hector and any other host can still spy for Ford even when they're powered down.
Quote
Member
Seconds before that Bernard says something along the lines of "hosts are programed to avoid a place like this. They wouldn't even see it if it was in front of them"
Edit: oh never mind I know what you mean. Yeah it was kind of a stupid way to reveal it rather than just waiting till at least he sees the blueprints.
NoPiece
Member
Not really. If they are hiding major plot points like that Bernard is a host, whether events are concurrent or decades earlier, Ford's motivations, etc..., then it just makes it hard to interpret the POV of the show until you look at it retrospectively. It is clear that they value mystery over message though.
So if Westworld is in the future, definitely part of China then.
(☉_☉
You are right, is definitely the Taiwan HSR:
MisterNugNug
Member
So is it safe to assume that Ford has a "host" version of Theresa working when Bernard and her walked down into the lab at the end?
shira
Member
I interpreted that scene that they were printing a Theresa model to replace her.
Episdoe 10: Sizemore figures she's been replaced by a host because she can't furrow her brow in an arc when she is angry and trying to control it.
duckroll have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
NoPiece
Member
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Ford is probably a host too, built by Arnold to enact his plans.
Delos' Self Awareness Protocol check uses stock images off the internet from half a century ago (at the very least, could be a century old or more depending how far in the future they are!):
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e...pg_srz_1903_1269_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz
http://i1.wp.com/www.globalrailnews...3/06/Taiwan-shutterstock_104615357-online.jpg
No.
How much of her do you think he has eaten so far?
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e...pg_srz_1903_1269_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz
http://i1.wp.com/www.globalrailnews...3/06/Taiwan-shutterstock_104615357-online.jpg
No.
How much of her do you think he has eaten so far?
So, theory time. Bernard was a real person once, but Ford killed him because he was getting in the way of his motives. That person? Arnold. The host Bernard is just a recreation of Arnold and that picture that Ford showed to him, had him in it but he could not see himself because he is a host copy of Arnold and if he could, seeing himself there would fuck host Arnold-Bernard up pretty badly.
Also Ford is about to make a host replicant of Theresa and that's the host that he was printing in this secret room.
Also Ford is about to make a host replicant of Theresa and that's the host that he was printing in this secret room.
shira
Member
Where was the picture that Dolores' father finds?