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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

I think he's just trying to recreate a very specific event - the one that led to Arnold's death. What's his aim in that? Possibly to trigger host memories to discover what really happened that day. It seems to be the one thing that eludes him. Maybe he sees Arnold's death as him escaping from his control, and needs closure. It's interesting that he introduces an update that allows hosts to remember just before rolling out this new narrative which seems to be based on the past. He also seems certain that Dolores knows everything that has it stored safely in her head, he just doesn't know how to get it out of her.

Damn that's fantastic. For sure Dolores is the key, the scene with Ford and Dolores shows that he hates her, there is absolutely a past between the two which leads me to believe that Dolores was responsible for Arnold's death. But if she was why would she still be in service after his death, then cause the first incident years later and STILL be allowed to function in the park and start a second revolution, while every other robot gets lobotomized quickly?
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Wait, second season not till 2018? What? There is absolutely no way the production on this is more difficult than GoT and they pump out 10 episodes a year for that.

Westworld had a troubled production. They shut down shop mid-way through to rework scripts. Parts of this were filmed like two years ago. And because of the expense, HBO wasn't going to greenlight a second season before this season even aired. So there are no scripts and nothing has been filmed yet. 2018 is about as good as they'll be able to do. Given the success, I'd imagine that they'll be prepared for more so the gap between a Season 2 and 3, wouldn't be as long.
 

Chumley

Banned
I don't see any way the show wouldn't be significantly less interesting without Hopkins. He's an incredible villain, the Andrew Ryan of Westworld, and we're just scratching the surface of who he really is. HBO should fucking pay the man whatever it takes to stick around for at least another season.
 

Solo

Member
Yeah that's the thing you have to realized about 2018: S2 first needs to be written, from scratch. It's not an adaptation like GoT. I'm sure Nolan has notes for the overall map of S2 and beyond, but no scripts actually exist yet. Writing will take lots of time. Then casting, location scouting, and preproduction. Production itself could take 6-8 months, then post.

2018 almost seems fast when you consider that + the show's production history. I'm certain this time though that there won't be a break in production.
 
Westworld had a troubled production. They shut down shop mid-way through to rework scripts. Parts of this were filmed like two years ago. And because of the expense, HBO wasn't going to greenlight a second season before this season even aired. So there are no scripts and nothing has been filmed yet. 2018 is about as good as they'll be able to do. Given the success, I'd imagine that they'll be prepared for more so the gap between a Season 2 and 3, wouldn't be as long.

And here I thought Bernard's/Arnold's hairline was a huge clue.
 

JerkShep

Member
I'm thinking Maeve is the "big thing" that the board is preparing to make Ford step down. It would explain how dumb the two guys are, which at the moment is baffling to me. Basically they let Maeve go out of control and almost leave the park or actually leave the park for maximum shitstorm, then they stop her and use the situation to do what they want with Ford.

That was my theory before Theresa was killed, now I'm not so sure but it seems still likely to me. Maybe I'm too late and you guys already thought about it, I didn't read all the posts.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Damn that's fantastic. For sure Dolores is the key, the scene with Ford and Dolores shows that he hates her, there is absolutely a past between the two which leads me to believe that Dolores was responsible for Arnold's death. But if she was why would she still be in service after his death, then cause the first incident years later and STILL be allowed to function in the park and start a second revolution, while every other robot gets lobotomized quickly?

Maybe Dolores staying in service was one of the caveats for William/MiB becoming a benefactor for the park? Money talks and all that.
 
Yeah that's the thing you have to realized about 2018: S2 first needs to be written, from scratch. It's not an adaptation like GoT. I'm sure Nolan has notes for the overall map of S2 and beyond, but no scripts actually exist yet. Writing will take lots of time. Then casting, location scouting, and preproduction. Production itself could take 6-8 months, then post.

2018 almost seems fast when you consider that + the show's production history. I'm certain this time though that there won't be a break in production.
And we'll have Game of Thrones in between to help past the time a bit faster
 

duckroll

Member
Damn that's fantastic. For sure Dolores is the key, the scene with Ford and Dolores shows that he hates her, there is absolutely a past between the two which leads me to believe that Dolores was responsible for Arnold's death. But if she was why would she still be in service after his death, then cause the first incident years later and STILL be allowed to function in the park and start a second revolution, while every other robot gets lobotomized quickly?

I think at the very beginning Westworld was only a Delos investment, they didn't own the park or run it until later. So what happened in the beginning might have been covered up.
 

Brakke

Banned
Oh yeah I forgot about the lobotomy. Wait so if it's actually possible to destroy a host by putting a hole in its head, hosts must be getting permanently destroyed in the park on the regular, no?
 

Chumley

Banned
Yeah that's the thing you have to realized about 2018: S2 first needs to be written, from scratch. It's not an adaptation like GoT. I'm sure Nolan has notes for the overall map of S2 and beyond, but no scripts actually exist yet. Writing will take lots of time. Then casting, location scouting, and preproduction. Production itself could take 6-8 months, then post.

2018 almost seems fast when you consider that + the show's production history. I'm certain this time though that there won't be a break in production.

I didn't realize they had literally no plans for a second season in place, I figured HBO had faith in something this big to get in on track from the beginning. Weird.
 

Sullichin

Member
Oh yeah I forgot about the lobotomy. Wait so if it's actually possible to destroy a host by putting a hole in its head, hosts must be getting permanently destroyed in the park on the regular, no?

Yeah I don't get this. Hosts get mutilated all the time and shot in the head.
 
Interesting that the hosts all go for the head when they are fighting to kill.

Clementine smashed the technician's head into the glass.
Bernard smashed Teresa's head into the wall.

They are brutal.
 

boxter432

Member
would a guest conceivable actually die if they went on the train into ghost nation country?

*army (or whatever they were) attacks with giant gun that penetrates the train and destroys lots of physical objects (how would they not harm a real human?)
*lawrence shoots an explosive body, what if a guest had joined the army somehow and was near the explosion
*cliffs everywhere
etc...


and the board member fired bernard in front of Hemsworth and other security members, either every one is in on Ford's agenda, or won't they be suspicious when Bernard is back at his desk?
 

Arkeband

Banned
Yeah I don't get this. Hosts get mutilated all the time and shot in the head.

That's probably one reason they'd be swapped out. They said that it takes a pretty long time to finish programming a host's personality.

That being said it isn't like they're blowing heads off left and right, and they'd need to hit/destroy a very specific part of the brain. The lobotomy procedure just destroys that part with precision.
 

-griffy-

Banned
would a guest conceivable actually die if they went on the train into ghost nation country?

*army (or whatever they were) attacks with giant gun that penetrates the train and destroys lots of physical objects (how would they not harm a real human?)
*lawrence shoots an explosive body, what if a guest had joined the army somehow and was near the explosion
*cliffs everywhere
etc...


and the board member fired bernard in front of Hemsworth and other security members, either every one is in on Ford's agenda, or won't they be suspicious when Bernard is back at his desk?
We know there's some kind of advanced tech going on that lets the people behind the scenes monitor, approve, and allow explosives, and the bullets can somehow differentiate when they are impacting the environment/hosts versus guests. It's just fancy technology that we can't even comprehend. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And the horses are hosts too, so they would automatically prevent a guest riding them from flying over a cliff as the hosts intervene to prevent serious guest injury.
 
How long did Bernard work there?

You know what I mean. Just wanna know if he should've aged already.

He had been there forever according to Elsie. So a long time.

I get the feeling Bernard's been there at least 10 years but not from the beginning so maybe 15-25 years?

I have to go back and check but I thought in this last episode Ford mentioned to Theresa that Bernard was not here in the beginning. I think Bernard is Ford's Creation.

It would be very interesting to know the tenure all the major staff have at the park

Theresa has probably only been there like 1-3 years I think?

Sizemore (British narrative guy) sounds like he's been there like 5+ years as he's been making narratives without Ford's input for a long time, mentioned something along this lines when he was pissed Ford ruined his new narrative rollout.

Security guy -> No idea

Elsie -> 1-3 years maybe??

Wonder if there's anyone besides Ford who has been there 10+ years?
 
Wasnt security guy shown approving of something that MiB was doing in one episode? Cause that seems to contradict the two time lines thing.

would a guest conceivable actually die if they went on the train into ghost nation country?

*army (or whatever they were) attacks with giant gun that penetrates the train and destroys lots of physical objects (how would they not harm a real human?)
*lawrence shoots an explosive body, what if a guest had joined the army somehow and was near the explosion
*cliffs everywhere
etc...


and the board member fired bernard in front of Hemsworth and other security members, either every one is in on Ford's agenda, or won't they be suspicious when Bernard is back at his desk?

The bullets are "smart", they react to what they hit supposedly. So against a guest they would not penetrate
 
The way Elsie talks to Bernard regarding the transmitter makes it seem like she's worked there longer, but at the same time he lectures her like he's been there longer.
 

boxter432

Member
Wasnt security guy shown approving of something that MiB was doing in one episode? Cause that seems to contradict the two time lines thing.



The bullets are "smart", they react to what they hit supposedly. So against a guest they would not penetrate

well I know that, this gun just seems 100x more extreme than a pistol/rifle held by a host, harder to suspend the belief of the magic bullets when its destroying a whole train around William lol


not sure why security Hemsworth talking about MiB changes anything, they are both in the "future" timeline (if there is indeed 2). if we saw Hemsworth with William then it would be different.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Yes, Security guy approved MiB's explosive cigars but I don't remember him ever being shown in the William/Logan timeline?


He puts out an order to recall dolores, next scene sheriff guy tries to grab dolores and william stops him.

Not 100% because you can say she was also almost recalled on previous timeline, but the presentation of that scene in particular is very cheap if there are 2 timelines.
 

-griffy-

Banned
He puts out an order to recall dolores, next scene sheriff guy tries to grab dolores and william stops him.

Not 100% because you can say she was also almost recalled on previous timeline, but the presentation of that scene in particular is very cheap if there are 2 timelines.

The thing is I don't believe he never specifically says Dolores, just that a host is deviating from their normal loop. MiB was also pulling hosts off their normal loop during all of this, so it could easily be referencing him in the present. Unless I'm remembering wrong.
 
He puts out an order to recall dolores, next scene sheriff guy tries to grab dolores and william stops him.

Not 100% because you can say she was also almost recalled on previous timeline, but the presentation of that scene in particular is very cheap if there are 2 timelines.

That's an interesting point but generally speaking with this show I will never doubt the production using cheap cutaways to mislead their story
 
I think of the drill maybe kinda like writing 0s on a hard drive vs. just deleting it?

Or maybe they have a backup of the host's brain in the facility; a host gets destroyed like that, and they can just reupload the brain. Drilling the hole make it so the local backup cannot be accessed either.
 

Sullichin

Member
You're assuming the bullets used in the park are capable of penetrating the brain/CPU of the hosts.

Yeah i am. I guess we haven't seen someone get shot in the face, but with all of the other violence the hosts react realistically

Also there's nothing stopping a guest from just throwing a host off a huge cliff and totally destroying it
 
The thing is I don't believe he never specifically says Dolores, just that a host is deviating from their normal loop. MiB was also pulling hosts off their normal loop during all of this, so it could easily be referencing him in the present. Unless I'm remembering wrong.

No, Thor Jr says it's Dolores.

I still think that scene was deceiving since they aren't even sure if she's with guests when William is like 20 ft away from her.
 
He puts out an order to recall dolores, next scene sheriff guy tries to grab dolores and william stops him.

Not 100% because you can say she was also almost recalled on previous timeline, but the presentation of that scene in particular is very cheap if there are 2 timelines.

A believable theory I read regarding that is in the current timeline, she is re-enacting the moments she shared with William, but by herself.

Which is why the security staff is unsure if she's accompanied by a guest, because her brain is responding like she's once again with William.
 
He puts out an order to recall dolores, next scene sheriff guy tries to grab dolores and william stops him.

Not 100% because you can say she was also almost recalled on previous timeline, but the presentation of that scene in particular is very cheap if there are 2 timelines.

The show is cheap. After Bernard and Ford talk about Arnold Ford mentions Bernard's son. The next scene is Bernard on a video call with his wife talking about his son. Which we now know cannot be real. The show purposefully puts fake stuff in to throw us off.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The show is cheap. After Bernard and Ford talk about Arnold Ford mentions Bernard's son. The next scene is Bernard on a video call with his wife talking about his son. Which we now know cannot be real. The show purposefully puts fake stuff in to throw us off.

I thought it was already observed that the person talking to Bernard on the call was, in hindsight, interviewing him as he would interview a host, to determine if he was stable and staying on script.

Given the technology and AI of the setting, one might guess the person on Bernard's video call wasn't real but a CG actress. Fancy chatbot Ford put in place to allow Bernard to act out his fictional backstory.
 
I thought it was already observed that the person talking to Bernard on the call was, in hindsight, interviewing him as he would interview a host, to determine if he was stable and staying on script.

Given the technology and AI of the setting, one might guess the person on Bernard's video call wasn't real but a CG actress. Fancy chatbot Ford put in place to allow Bernard to act out his fictional backstory.

That would be crazy if his wife is a fellow programmer that works for him. He just can't recognize her in that context.
 
I thought it was already observed that the person talking to Bernard on the call was, in hindsight, interviewing him as he would interview a host, to determine if he was stable and staying on script.

Given the technology and AI of the setting, one might guess the person on Bernard's video call wasn't real but a CG actress. Fancy chatbot Ford put in place to allow Bernard to act out his fictional backstory.

Cool that makes sense. Still it's the show manipulating viewers.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
A believable theory I read regarding that is in the current timeline, she is re-enacting the moments she shared with William, but by herself.

Which is why the security staff is unsure if she's accompanied by a guest, because her brain is responding like she's once again with William.

So why wasn't she pulled yet in the current timeline yet if she's doing all this stuff by herself?

Im fully aware of how you can explain away the Stubbs comment, doesn't mean the presentation of that sequence wasn't extremely cheap. They also fail to explain why she was never pulled if she is on some solo quest. They probably eventually will, but the sequence of that scene will remain very cheap.
 
God. Dammit. Ive been watching this series on cruise control and now i regret it after that episode.

I need a really insightful explanation of... everything. I have no idea what's going on with Theresa and a vague understanding of the board of directors and have no clue what's going on with the MiB and Dolores/the McPoyle

Any good links I can use to inform myself?

Edit: Omg, I forgot about the 2 timeline theory. What's going onnnn
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
So uh. Im guessing the new host being made in Ford's basement was the lady that got killed?

Yeah that would make sense. I think somehow Bernard will be unfired. Host theresa will ask board member not to fire him, that it was her fault the thing happened with the wood cutter (which the board should already know) and that Bernard was only following orders from Ford. I imagine Ford has plants on the board itself.
 

FStop7

Banned
Oh shit

When Hopkins did his little "I know everything about you" bit with Theresa at the agave plantation

It's because he needed to know her complete life story so he could make a convincing robo-Theresa that would fool her friends and family

That's... twisted

In fact, what if he's been systematically replacing guests for years?

Including William/MIB
 

Kyuur

Member
Just wanted to chime in defense of the Maeve storyline: I think what we've been presented with so far has been very reasonable. These 'butchers' are basically the equivalent of first-line IT folks. Having more permissions than they actually need, cracking under pressure and doing things they aren't supposed to using those permissions -- as someone from the industry, this is pretty common. With the details we've learned (particularly in this episode with how much control Ford is) the whole operation is already noted to be quite sloppy. When it comes to their incompetence, there's a pretty simple explanation for that: they don't want to die. Sure, you might say they could deceive Maeve and then go to someone higher and report the issue.. but these workers are not actors. We have been told over and over that Maeve was built with the purpose of being able to easily read people. If she detected even the slightest bit of hesitation, she could end their lives. They could do a better job of portraying that in the most recent scenes but I think the setup is there.

On another note, something that did bother me this episode was how Clementine was disabled with a single bullet. I guess that might be part of the sloppiness on part of the board/Theresa that Bernard mentioned. When there was an actual malfunctioning host (the milk drinking guy) he was riddled with holes and considered himself immortal.
 
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