Radiohead knew. There are some doors you can't come back from.
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Smart use of Theresa's shadow to give us a frame of reference
Also
This gif is when I was convinced. Ford appeared out of nowhere. I wasn't sure how he did it but it was a massive red flag something was off about either Bernard or Ford. I didn't hit upon hidden door, I thought maybe Ford was like neurally linked to hosts and could "appear" to them even if not physically there (which might have explained his godlike power to just stop everyone without real commands in the past).
Really? The story takes place in the past, and William is starting to say and do more and more of the things MiB has said and talked about having done in previous episodes, but they're not the same person?
Jack Scofield
Member
How long do these cycles last? All storylines have to be running asynchronously, right? Because the presence of William is affecting Dolores' storyline by days if not weeks. What would happen if William stayed in Westworld forever? Would Dolores' storyline ever reset?
No it would never reset, but at $40,000 a day, she would be the most expensive rental girlfriend ever.
It wouldn't reset, she'd stay with him improvising until his 28 day stay limit, or until she gets killed, or he gets distracted and leaves her behind at some point.
In the meantime, other storylines involving her are rerouted and the hosts involved adjust their loops to compensate.
I'd imagine that the park will gradually make it harder and harder for him to stay with her and keep her alive as her other storylines pile up and are disrupted by her absence.
Actually that would be an interesting way to end William and Delores storyline -- the park gradually makes it harder and harder for him to keep her alive just because it wants to reclaim her and put her back in her loop.
Eventually it culminates in a desperate fight which William loses (and his 28 days are up), and that's why he so bitter and becomes the MIB. She doesn't betray him, the nature of the park itself does, and in doing so, William/MIB grasps the artifice behind the park, and spends the rest of his life trying to figure out what can free Dolores.
The season ends the way it began, with Dolores, naked, in a chair being interrogated.
"Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?"
"Yes."
Cut to black screen. End of season.
Eventually it culminates in a desperate fight which William loses (and his 28 days are up), and that's why he so bitter and becomes the MIB. She doesn't betray him, the nature of the park itself does, and in doing so, William/MIB grasps the artifice behind the park, and spends the rest of his life trying to figure out what can free Dolores.
The season ends the way it began, with Dolores, naked, in a chair being interrogated.
"Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?"
"Yes."
Cut to black screen. End of season.
It depends on the character. Dolores appears to have been on a daily cycle (or something close to that), while Hector for instance is on one that is at least 2 weeks long.
Characters like Dolores or Teddy are seemingly designed with these sort of deviations in mind. They are guide and coaxer type characters. All that Dolores' story affects is herself, Teddy + parents (all on short cycles that wouldn't affect much), so presumably if Dolores is not home either A.) Other hosts like Trevor and Milkman will reroute and parents will live a basic daily routine like they do anyway, or B.) They go there no matter what, parents die, and then the reset is held until Dolores ends up returning. It's not a central location so nothing really gets affected.
There's also a possibility of, if they know a host is going to be gone long, like they likely do, they might temporarily recast. For instance, take El Lazo. Now, he was dragged out for a long time from his original death. This is using the single timeframe theory (which I don't agree with), but say, MiB decides to keep him with him for an extra day. That would mean the quest involving him Logan and William (or anyone else really) pick up could get thrown off. In that case, I'd bet they would just have a new El Lazo fill things in rather than say, attempt to delay the quest or have the quest end up involving El Lazo's 2nd in command instead.
They would, for instance, probably want to have a backup plan to fulfill the farmer's daughter fantasy. Either different characters taking precedence, the way Clementine became the Madam very quickly, or various ways to encourage alternate options.
MiamiWesker
Member
Rewatching parts of past episodes, woah the connections you see. Stuff like Ford talking about the pyramid of consciousness arnold made in episode 2, it starts with memories, then goes to improvisation, then self interest then they don't know what is at the top. This past episode Bernard tells Teresa the hosts are having memories and it's leading to improvisation. The way Ford speaks to Bernard is the same way Arnold/Bernard speaks to Dolores with statements said as questions "you won't tell anyone about our talks."
But I have big questions, I'll number them so that you can answer them easier.
1. When do they talk about the incident we believe will happen with William. 34 years back Arnold dies but that's not the incident, that would happen 4 years later around 30 years. Why do we think this, when was this mentioned?
2. How did the MIB start his quest to find the maze. What was the first step, how did he know someone's scalp was going to have a map? And why is that in some guys scalp? I am having trouble following the quest line. If the maze is about Arnold then why is teddy and a brand new storyline made by Ford with Wyatt part of the maze if that was literally just added in?
3. Why is there a little girl host that seems to have full knowledge that she is a host. First she tells MIB where to find the next step of the maze when she breaks character from the scared little girl to full on oracle mode. The Dolores finds her and she tells Dolores that she is from the same place she is from, and to remember. Who is this girl and why is she all knowing?
4. I can't track Dolores in the present, it's a mess. First we have to start at the house attack when she shoots Trevor. Clearly parts of that is the present cause it's the same crew with the new milk man in the present. But she starts flashing from past to present. When she gets shot in the stomach that seems to be the present but in the past she didn't get shot and she runs off and ends up with William. Later she stares at the moon in the past and flashes to that same scene but with a clean up crew picking her up after she has a bullet in the stomach, major thing to note is that scene shows the new dad so it has to be the present. But then you see Dolores seeing maze symbols everywhere and flashing back and forth. Seeing herself, having images of a church, one shows her sitting at her own grave. It's really weird. So is past Dolores freaking out or is there a present Dolores following along but she was shot so when did she go on this journey?
The Dolores memory flashes are bothering me a ton because they are happening backwards. It's Dolores in the past snapping out of having a memory from the future, which can't happen. It could be stupid camera tricks but they do it all the time. With the maze image in the sand she is starting at it and then the Marshall snaps her out of it, she doesn't see the maze any more but was confused. The looking at the moon in the past gave her images of a clean up in the future.
Then there is the talk Ford has with Dolores when she says she had t seen Arnold in 34 years the day he died. She says the last thing Arnold told her was she was going to help destroy the park. Ford says but you didn't do that, you stayed in your loop. So if Dolores leads a revolution that kills a bunch of people in the William timeline how the hell does Ford not mention that?
But I have big questions, I'll number them so that you can answer them easier.
1. When do they talk about the incident we believe will happen with William. 34 years back Arnold dies but that's not the incident, that would happen 4 years later around 30 years. Why do we think this, when was this mentioned?
2. How did the MIB start his quest to find the maze. What was the first step, how did he know someone's scalp was going to have a map? And why is that in some guys scalp? I am having trouble following the quest line. If the maze is about Arnold then why is teddy and a brand new storyline made by Ford with Wyatt part of the maze if that was literally just added in?
3. Why is there a little girl host that seems to have full knowledge that she is a host. First she tells MIB where to find the next step of the maze when she breaks character from the scared little girl to full on oracle mode. The Dolores finds her and she tells Dolores that she is from the same place she is from, and to remember. Who is this girl and why is she all knowing?
4. I can't track Dolores in the present, it's a mess. First we have to start at the house attack when she shoots Trevor. Clearly parts of that is the present cause it's the same crew with the new milk man in the present. But she starts flashing from past to present. When she gets shot in the stomach that seems to be the present but in the past she didn't get shot and she runs off and ends up with William. Later she stares at the moon in the past and flashes to that same scene but with a clean up crew picking her up after she has a bullet in the stomach, major thing to note is that scene shows the new dad so it has to be the present. But then you see Dolores seeing maze symbols everywhere and flashing back and forth. Seeing herself, having images of a church, one shows her sitting at her own grave. It's really weird. So is past Dolores freaking out or is there a present Dolores following along but she was shot so when did she go on this journey?
The Dolores memory flashes are bothering me a ton because they are happening backwards. It's Dolores in the past snapping out of having a memory from the future, which can't happen. It could be stupid camera tricks but they do it all the time. With the maze image in the sand she is starting at it and then the Marshall snaps her out of it, she doesn't see the maze any more but was confused. The looking at the moon in the past gave her images of a clean up in the future.
Then there is the talk Ford has with Dolores when she says she had t seen Arnold in 34 years the day he died. She says the last thing Arnold told her was she was going to help destroy the park. Ford says but you didn't do that, you stayed in your loop. So if Dolores leads a revolution that kills a bunch of people in the William timeline how the hell does Ford not mention that?
Damn I have to stop doing other shit (cooking) while watching this show. I didn't catch it there. The room was dark, I just figured that he missed the door legitimately. And message boards are claiming that if you go back and watch it, the door wasn't there, and then magically it was after he said "What door".
I completely missed that shit. It didnt hit me that he couldnt see the door because he was a host until he let out that "It doesn't look like anything to me". Then I was like.... "Is that why he didnt notice the damn door!?"
Most of your questions are things you're meant to be wondering that are very likely to be addressed by the end of the season.
As for your last point, we don't actually know what the incident was. We don't know if it was Dolores specifically, we don't know if it was some revolt. For all we know it's just one random guest that gets killed.
Not anymore, they don't.
And I'm willing to bet that the production on this is more difficult than on Game of Thrones. It's got a more complicated story, probably bigger sets, bigger actors (though it remains to be seen how many of the big actors will return) and is less reliant on CGI.
Lol there is no way Westworld production is more difficult than Game of Thrones. That films in location in several different countries and they have way more simultaneous shooting units than Westworld. Let's not be absurd.
Westworld shoots at a couple of stages in CA and exteriors in Utah. That's it. Every season of GoT is spanned across usually around 4 or 5 international locations with big sets at all of them. There's no comparison.
I get the script writing process probably being very long on Westworld, but if they would have had that sorted out earlier there wouldn't be much of an excuse on the production side.
Yeah, GoT's filming is fucking insanity.
[edit]
Also, I don't see how Westworld's story is more complicated, in terms of logistics, than GoT's when GoT is juggling multiple plot lines with literally hundreds of characters.
AntiFacebook
Member
Really? You would have to go back a decade or so for his last big role in a movie. He is way past his glory.
Also, if anything, it was yesterday's episode that changed Ford's status from a background character to one that belongs in the front stage.
The main challenge Westworld has is that they are writing an original story rather than adapting from books. Wait, hold on, I guess that's true of GoT now too!!!
Discotheque
Banned
I think I started to see it when Ford kept mentioning Bernard's dead son. Like he was playing with his mind, prodding at it. Of course he's a shit and can do that to other humans as well but it just seemed like he was experimenting with "his property" in those interactions
wasn't 100% sure though of course until this episode. very dope last 10 minutes.
It's just a game.
I'll rather have nothing than TD S2 tbh.
newtypepilot
Member
GRRM told D&D how the main story will end in a meeting so GoT still has something to base on.
Even HERPES?!?!
???
Discotheque
Banned
speaking of True Detective season 2 (a million scusts) really any of those 4 main cast members would be great in here as well.
with this series you can have so many revolving cast members. I really hope Harris, Thandie, Hopkins and Wright stick around though for a while.
with this series you can have so many revolving cast members. I really hope Harris, Thandie, Hopkins and Wright stick around though for a while.
Yeah, GoT immersion levels are insane. They have to travel across multiple continents to shoot. Pretty sure Westworld is mostly shot around LA.
Yeah, I was clearly wrong about the logistics of filming, but I stand by my opinion that story-wise Westworld is more complicated than Game of Thrones. Most of the difficult stuff for Game of Thrones came from the books, most of the current writing for Game of Thrones is pretty middle-of-the-road fantasy stuf.
sounds like something that could play while maeve during her escape discovers that the park is located on the moon or something like that.
If he were to create a theresa host, how would that work exactly? how does he get access to her memories?
If Ford somehow knows how to do it, it shows how scary westworld really can be. I mean it seems like a park for the extremely wealthy and powerful. Who's to stop Ford from killing a guest now and then, and replace him/her with a host? He could literally take over countries this way. (not that i think the show will go down this road, but if he can make theresa, he can make others. The only thing stopping him would be the lack of motivation).
If Ford somehow knows how to do it, it shows how scary westworld really can be. I mean it seems like a park for the extremely wealthy and powerful. Who's to stop Ford from killing a guest now and then, and replace him/her with a host? He could literally take over countries this way. (not that i think the show will go down this road, but if he can make theresa, he can make others. The only thing stopping him would be the lack of motivation).
I think they showed Young Ford because William will find him as the big reveal that he's in the past.
It's definitely going down that road.
Oh I read you wanted anything except s2 of TD.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
They will have a huge cliffhanger and we have to wait two years, right? It's inevitable.
RocknRola
Member
Yup. I will hate them for it, but at the same time I will eat up the second season as soon as it's available.
I do think that Ford will create a Theresa host and others to keep delos in check. But i dont think his ultimate goal is world domination or anything like that. Delos might want the hosts for that though. Maybe thats what ford meant when he said their deal was mutual benifitial. The costs of running this park must be out of this world, 40 000 Dollars per day * 1400 guests minus cost just doesnt seem like its worth the investement.
If they are hiding clues in multiple anagrams I am truly blown away.
Kor of Memory
Member
I doubt it, since filming was so long ago, and they had no idea if they were going to be renewed or not.
Nolan has said they'll be exploring the physical nature of the hosts in the second season, including how they are made, what they are made of exactly, and their power source. He goes on to tease that their biological makeup does not require them to breath oxygen and comments that it opens up interesting possibilities. Take that as you will.
It wouldn't surprise me if he already took over the board like that.
TurboLibre
Member
That's pretty much the plotline for Future World. So it's very possible.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
they're going to send some hosts to space who will then start a colony there? And eventually attack earth to take back their home?
Yeah I'm starting to think too that Maeve's awakening/escape might just be another bit of Ford's god complex fuckery, and she'll be put down in a most cruel and unusual way. However, I think Bernard/Arnold will succeed where she does not.
What if Bernard/Arnold is actually self-aware and always has been, and just followed Ford's orders to give him the illusion of control? Playing the long con on Ford.
What if Bernard/Arnold is actually self-aware and always has been, and just followed Ford's orders to give him the illusion of control? Playing the long con on Ford.
Charles Brandon
Member
He did seem to carry on moving after Ford had 'frozen' him...
He did. I noticed this as well.
Probably an indication that Bernard will attempt to break free of Ford at some point.
