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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

B

Baroquemantic

Member
Just watched last week's episode.

Ho. Ly. Shit! As someone who doesn't keep up with the fan theories and all that jazz, my mind is blown and jaw on the floor. I never thought Bernard could be a host. Holy shit. Anywho, goodbye, Theresa. Lordt she was gotdamn foine.
 
O

OrionX

Member
So I went back and started watching again from the beginning, and I got to the part where Bernard has that video chat with his ex-wife. I guess she's a host too? I mean, I guess it makes sense that Ford would take elaborate steps to make him believable as a legit human, but still, damn that trickery... lol
 
M

Makai

Member
OrionX said:
So I went back and started watching again from the beginning, and I got to the part where Bernard has that video chat with his ex-wife. I guess she's a host too? I mean, I guess it makes sense that Ford would take elaborate steps to make him believable as a legit human, but still, damn that trickery... lol
Click to expand...
Maybe that's Arnold talking to his wife.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
OrionX said:
So I went back and started watching again from the beginning, and I got to the part where Bernard has that video chat with his ex-wife. I guess she's a host too? I mean, I guess it makes sense that Ford would take elaborate steps to make him believable as a legit human, but still, damn that trickery... lol
Click to expand...

Makai said:
Maybe that's Arnold talking to his wife.
Click to expand...

Could be. However it can also be Bernard. I believe that Bernard backstory with his son could be a loop based on the real Arnold story. That could be Arnold original motivation with the hosts: to bring back the dear dead ones (his son). Kinda he did it with Ford's family.

Now I have to rewatch all the scenes with Bernard talking with Dolores (that was really Arnold) and the scenes with Bernard talking and reading to his son, to look for similarities (to see if that was Arnold too). The story he reads must play also a significant matter. Is it Alice in Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass?
 
O

OrionX

Member
Makai said:
Maybe that's Arnold talking to his wife.
Click to expand...

This has probably already been discussed, but in the same episode, we're shown this:

tmg-article_tall.jpg


It's suggested that the other man is Arnold... But I guess we just shouldn't trust anything Ford shows or says to Bernard?? Or... shit, I guess Bernard could be filtering the image to see something different than what's actually there... omg #2deep4me xD
 
K

KahooTs

Member
OrionX said:
So I went back and started watching again from the beginning, and I got to the part where Bernard has that video chat with his ex-wife. I guess she's a host too? I mean, I guess it makes sense that Ford would take elaborate steps to make him believable as a legit human, but still, damn that trickery... lol
Click to expand...

Regarding the in some way false wife conversation, a better show would have hinted towards how it could be done before they drop the twist.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
OrionX said:
This has probably already been discussed, but in the same episode, we're shown this:

tmg-article_tall.jpg


It's suggested that the other man is Arnold... But I guess we just shouldn't trust anything Ford shows or says to Bernard?? Or... shit, I guess Bernard could be filtering the image to see something different than what's actually there... omg #2deep4me xD
Click to expand...
It's not Arnold. We see in the other episode that the person Ford says is Arnold is actually the host of Ford's father

Arnold probably is in that picture. Bernard just can't see it, explaining the offset nature of the picture
 
D

DorkLord54

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Was this already posted? The New York Times ran a decent piece about the recent reveal and Westworld as a whole. Mirrors a lot of my feelings, especially in the last couple episodes.

Westworld Reveals a Big Twist, but Little Heart

That Rolling Stone interview with Evan Rachel Wood was also a great read. Not an actress that has always been on my radar. I'm hoping to see her in more stuff now though.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised the NYT article brought up the same point I did about Lost and its great cast. Probably the only thing Westworld needs before I can say it's a truly great show.

Also, anyone else half-(jokingly)expecting for the season to end with Maeve looking for the first of Ford's creations, which were built for more applicable military purposes, and her to reveal them to be...

3cfe04de5301871898455170bccf9fd3.jpg
Click to expand...
 
O

OrionX

Member
More_Badass said:
It's not Arnold. We see in the other episode that the person Ford says is Arnold is actually the host of Ford's father

Arnold probably is in that picture. Bernard just can't see it, explaining the offset nature of the picture
Click to expand...

Oh yeah that's right, thanks. I'm dumb. lol
 
F

Future

Member
KahooTs said:
Regarding the in some way false wife conversation, a better show would have hinted towards how it could be done before they drop the twist.
Click to expand...

It has already

- she could be a host
- it could be an implanted memory

Regardless you know it was a farce and at some point they'll reveal exactly how. But they've already shown all the tools Ford has to do it.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
OrionX said:
This has probably already been discussed, but in the same episode, we're shown this:

tmg-article_tall.jpg


It's suggested that the other man is Arnold... But I guess we just shouldn't trust anything Ford shows or says to Bernard?? Or... shit, I guess Bernard could be filtering the image to see something different than what's actually there... omg #2deep4me xD
Click to expand...

Nope. We are seeing this picture from Bernard's perspective. Like we also could not see the door in the last episode before Theresa entering the room and mentioned it (and in the episode before too when Bernard found out the hut with Ford family hosts).

Notice how the persons on that picture are off centered? Bernard cannot see the third person in the picture, the one in the right: it is a picture taken when Ford (left) is receiving a gift (his father host, center) from Arnold (right). At the time of that episode we assume that the man next to Ford was Arnold, but later we saw that was a copy from his father. It cannot be Arnold. Being Bernard a copy from Arnold he cannot see him at that picture (so the viewers too).

That was another check from Ford, testing the behaviour of Bernard, to see if Arnold mind is not there.
 
O

OrionX

Member
Chiaroscuro said:
Nope. We are seeing this picture from Bernard's perspective. Like we also could not see the door in the last episode before Theresa entering the room and mentioned it (and in the episode before too when Bernard found out the hut with Ford family hosts).

Notice how the persons on that picture are off centered? Bernard cannot see the third person in the picture, the one in the right: it is a picture taken when Ford (left) is receiving a gift (his father host, center) from Arnold (right). At the time of that episode we assume that the man next to Ford was Arnold, but later we saw that was a copy from his father. It cannot be Arnold. Being Bernard a copy from Arnold he cannot see him at that picture (so the viewers too).

That was another check from Ford, testing the behaviour of Bernard, to see if Arnold mind is not there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's kinda just now hitting me how much potential there is for gas-lighting. Especially if there are other possible hosts masquerading as human.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
I imagine we will see Bernard's "wife" or it will be elaborated on eventually. Bringing Gina Torres on for like 20 seconds is just a waste.
 
M

movie_club

Junior Member
Ep. 2 all but confirms Two Timelines.

Upon rewatching, the cinematography and scene cuts all but spell it out.

-Dolores wakes up to a voice that says 'Remember' - seems to be present day

-Cuts to William arriving on the train (past) -Westworld has an older looking logo

-Logon tells William he can not wait to see the man he will become

-Scene cut to MIB (present)

-MIB tells Lawrence that they are old friends and fought the Ghost Nation together -MIB says that he was essentially 'born here' 30 years ago and that every detail of this place adds up to something

Further, as an aside, when in SweetWater Dolores sees her reflection and then 'remembers' a time when she was under diagnostics from Bernard (or Arnold)

One thing that makes little sense in this episode is Maeve's dream - why is it the MIB that haunts her along with the Ghost Nation?
 
K

KahooTs

Member
Future said:
It has already

- she could be a host
- it could be an implanted memory

Regardless you know it was a farce and at some point they'll reveal exactly how. But they've already shown all the tools Ford has to do it.
Click to expand...

Not nearly well enough to form a satisfying step. The twist shouldn't require further explanation, the twist should provide the explanation.
 
F

Future

Member
KahooTs said:
Not nearly well enough to form a satisfying step. The twist shouldn't require further explanation, the twist should provide the explanation.
Click to expand...

Disagree. The twist itself is explained: "Bernard is a host." It does not need to completely show you the implications of that yet (since this isn't the biggest twist to be revealed, yet). Twists need to change how you look at the previous things you've been shown. This does that in spades

The viewer now knows, from Bernard, that at least one host has been passing for a human for potentially many years. Now with that info:

- nothing shown from Bernard's perspective can be trusted (Arnold photo)
- whatever Bernard told Dolores's father was probably directed by ford
- things told to Bernard, ford also knows and can use (Elise, details on Theresa if he's to make a copy)
- there could be other hosts posing as human (his wife)
- he could have implanted any memory into Bernard at will (dead son, wife conversation)
- Bernard talks to Dolores clothed. He's the only one that does this with a host. As a host, why would he do this if Ford is so adamant about NOT doing that. Implies that's not Bernard we are seeing with Dolores

All that shit is fantastic to me.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Could part of William actually be in Teddy? Teddy and Dolores are very close, Teddy even has a line where he said he was a different man before he met her. And then MiB is Logan. That could also be why MiB and Dolores relationship isn't great?

Just a longshot theory.
 
J

Jocund

Member
Considering Logan is a one-note character who sees Westworld as a high-concept fuckfest, I can't really see him developing into someone like MiB, who comes off as pretty reserved. He's got more in common with William in that respect.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
Yeah, there's no way Logan is the MiB. He's had like no character development. If they were setting him up as important we'd be seeing more of his point of view and getting to know him more beyond just being a dickhead. They would have had to have started an arc or his own story by now, presuming the reveal is this season.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Good points regarding Logan. Still could be some part of William in Teddy thanks to Arnold.

Hopefully we will find out more tonight. Can't wait.
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
Well fack.

I know I keep letting myself get behind on this topic after every episode, but this time really took the cake lol. Doesn't help that I keep starting the episode late and 5 pages already pass before I even finish the episode.

Welp, let's see what I got horribly wrong this week! :p Still not a huge fan of a last week's reveal, for all of the very reason I gave for not thinking it would happen, but oh well. They at least pulled it off better than I expected.
 
C

carlsojo

Member
Prediction/thoughts:

Bernard is (the robot version of) Arnold, and their son is real. His goal is to bring his son "back to life" with a true artificial intelligence/life. The maze is designed as a kind of "turing test"; if one of the hosts can "solve" it, then their code can be used to recreate his son.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
carlsojo said:
Prediction/thoughts:

Bernard is (the robot version of) Arnold, and their son is real. His goal is to bring his son "back to life" with a true artificial intelligence/life. The maze is designed as a kind of "turing test"; if one of the hosts can "solve" it, then their code can be used to recreate his son.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

I also believe Teddy was made to mimic William somehow, in order to keep Dolores in place. Ford said that to Teddy. That bring said, Teddy cannot be a creation of Arnold, since William visited the park years after his death. Whatever happened in Dolores quest with William (and we will soon discover) in the end Ford created Teddy to control and check Dolores.

With that in mind it is important to consider that MiB is currentely being help by Teddy So by extention, Ford is keeping a close hand over MiB too. We will see what developers from that. The end of this season will be epic.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
They better have an explaination for why they just go along

I'll be happy if it's all part of Ford's storyline and the butchers are hosts to help Maeve evolve
 
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