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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Planet Cylon confirmed
Chuckie
Member
Who are the Final Five though?
AntiFacebook
Member
This episode clearly proved that The William = man in black theory is incorrect.
Delores clearly met MiB right after she ran away from William and Logan.
Also, Logan had no idea who Arnold is, meaning it couldn't have happened 30 years ago while he was still alive.
Delores clearly met MiB right after she ran away from William and Logan.
Also, Logan had no idea who Arnold is, meaning it couldn't have happened 30 years ago while he was still alive.
Chuckie
Member
Nope. She was cut up when running away from William and Logan, but had a whole body when meeting MiB. It was a different timeline.
The moment that shows that she is seeing multiple times at once, is proof to you everything is linear? She runs from William, finds Arnold, meets Man in Black in a span of five minutes.
Hambulance
Member
It's actually another miniverse created by Rick.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
Time period, McFly, different time period. The timeline is the same throughout.
Moz La Punk
Member
This is like exactly the opposite of what I got from this episode. Are you watching the same show?
Maeve subplot is bullshit. The only way it can be redeemed is with Hopkins knowing all along that she was doing all that super stuff. is stupid how super Maeve can bypass every camera and surveillance equipment in the facility. one thing that bothers me about the show is the convenience of the security in the park. For a park that is wall to wall full of security measures and cameras 24/7, it sure happens a lot of shady stuff.
And inb4: all is a simulation of the human counter parts of the hosts. Like playing a cowboy versus indiands with orgies on VR.
And inb4: all is a simulation of the human counter parts of the hosts. Like playing a cowboy versus indiands with orgies on VR.
Chuckie
Member
You are right. The word got mentioned so often in this thread I am now also wrongly using it
Thanks for clearing that up! I would have recognized Ford's dad in the picture but I only caught a glimpse of the right side of it.
So hyped about the finale but that also means it's over (for now?).
Have they finally renewed it for a second season? They have me locked into their subscription until the end of Game of Thrones but beyond that I'm not so sure. Westworld would be enough to keep me subscribed.
TimeEffect
Member
I think its returning,...2018 D:
You are joking right? Arnold died 34 years prior before the park opened. Dolores was opened enough by logan you could literally see pistons moving inside her. And her and William were at the church the day before and only the steeple showed the town was so buried, not even Magic Maeve and her logic busting tech duo could excavate and clean an entire town overnight.
This has me thinking that
Ford absolutely knows what Maeve is up to and is planning for her to create mayhem and for her to off some Delos board members when she stages her uprising.
For as obvious as it seems some of tbe twists are, I think some posts in this thread alone show proof that it's still incredibly mysterious to the majority of viewers. Hell, I'm watching Collider TV Talk and even Sasha has crazy theories that don't line up with what the show has told us.
Doesn't surprise me really. The average viewer doesn't check the internet. And a lot who do might only read a Reddit thread or one of the magazine articles about the theory's.
It takes a special breed to not only be a regular forum poster but also habitually visit a specific thread about one show and in the case of this thread and show dissect each episode and find clues and make timelines all week to the point that it's always on the first couple of pages.
Honestly though because of the people thinking this thread ruined the show I really thought about it and I feel the opposite. I would have liked the show anyways but this thread has made me feel like an active member of a community and heightened my enjoyment past a passive viewing experience.
Just more proof that the average person wouldnt have predicted so much of this stuff without online communities to have hundreds scouring details and rendering every possible future.
Haha, I was watching the show and thinking the same.
People tend to forget that we're the niche, most people aren't reading fan stories that have picked apart every second and point out every single miniscule callback.
Like with TV talk, they forgot that it wasn't Dolores that had the photo but her father. I always end up explaining a lot of stuff to my family members when we discuss shows because they casually watch stuff.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
The show has gotten really good in the last two episodes.
Why could they not have release these two earlier?
I just don't understand why American TV shows, feel the need to only have 3 good episodes on a 10 episode run.
If you've only got enough story for 3-5 episodes, why don't you just make the whole season this long? Network TV has the excuse of ad revenue, but I don't know what excuse HBO has.
Why could they not have release these two earlier?
I just don't understand why American TV shows, feel the need to only have 3 good episodes on a 10 episode run.
If you've only got enough story for 3-5 episodes, why don't you just make the whole season this long? Network TV has the excuse of ad revenue, but I don't know what excuse HBO has.
ghostwritingduck
Member
The last episodes were great because they payoff things that have been carefully set up. They wouldn't be great out of context.
I don't know man. The only thing the internet gave me was screenshots of pics I'd never have analyzed (like offset Arnold that Bernard couldn't see, and different west world logo in past timeline).
Bernard = arnold, William back in time. Dolores timeline switching. All logical conclusions when watching everything closely (admittedly repeated viewings though). Compare to reveals in some shows like battle star galactica (the final 5) and well your guess is as good as anyone where they were going with that shit
Basically this show can't be casually watched. My wife for example watches this while noodling on an iPad and then tells me she doesn't understand anything. I'm sure tons of people are like this and the twists just fly over their head. If you actually pay attention and think about it though, everything has been foreshadowed damn well and is part of why I love this show despite some of the storytelling. It rewards the viewer that notices details, and rewards rewatching content.
Dandy Lyin
Member
Is it weird that I am still holding out hope for Elsie? They refuse to show her actually die... And they only showed Ghost Nation disable the security guy she always bantered with, rather than kill him. Something is up.
shira
Member
She's vectoring
mariachi507
Member
It sounds like you're assuming that we're seeing Delores in two different timelines when really it's three.
Past 1, blue dress-She killed Arnold before the park opened.
Past 2, jeans-when she ran away from William and Logan
Present, jeans-meets MIB (William) in church, she even says "William" right before the doors open to throw another hint at us.
Chiaroscuro
Member
Well, we can be sure now about different timelines, Bernard was really Arnold in some scenes, MiB = William (99%), but there are still some big mysteries left to be explained in the final episode:
- Maeve's actions. It does not make sense that she is able to do what she did without Ford being aware of that at least some extent, Ford is a control freak. However it does not make sense that Ford planned it or endorse it neither, since he dispises some of humanity characterics and did not want the hosts to have them, and crashed with Arnold's intentions. He has being reverting sentient hosts like Bernard several times, why? Why he let them to become more self aware just to crush them after (Bernard, Dolores, maybe now Maeve). What he is looking for? Arnold's ghost? Trying to finally understand Arnold's code that no one really understands after more than 30 years and just copy it from host to host? Maybe. Plus, the reveries. For such a control freak like Ford, it cannot be an unintentional side effect. Ford intended it from the update.
I think some things will backfire for Ford in the end. The end of the season is the fall of the gods, after all. Elsie may still be alive, Bernard could be free from Ford controls from Maeve intervention this time.
- Maeve's actions. It does not make sense that she is able to do what she did without Ford being aware of that at least some extent, Ford is a control freak. However it does not make sense that Ford planned it or endorse it neither, since he dispises some of humanity characterics and did not want the hosts to have them, and crashed with Arnold's intentions. He has being reverting sentient hosts like Bernard several times, why? Why he let them to become more self aware just to crush them after (Bernard, Dolores, maybe now Maeve). What he is looking for? Arnold's ghost? Trying to finally understand Arnold's code that no one really understands after more than 30 years and just copy it from host to host? Maybe. Plus, the reveries. For such a control freak like Ford, it cannot be an unintentional side effect. Ford intended it from the update.
I think some things will backfire for Ford in the end. The end of the season is the fall of the gods, after all. Elsie may still be alive, Bernard could be free from Ford controls from Maeve intervention this time.
shira
Member
If Bernard was somehow able to disobey Ford via a superceeding directive from Maeve or Dolores it's going to be some crazy shit in E10/S2
biggersmaller
Banned
I believe Arnold/Bernard started this revolution. Essentially, I have an hunch that there was Bernard activity Ford was unaware of. I think Bernard was subconsciously more Arnold than either ever realized and I think this is shown through his interactions with Dolores where he is always asking if she had spoken with anyone else regarding their talks, to keep Ford out of the loop as to how much Dolores has gotten off the beaten patch. Additionally, he never informs Ford of Maeve's self awareness.
They are intentionally toying with our hopes that she lives. So much that I bet she is alive.
They are intentionally toying with our hopes that she lives. So much that I bet she is alive.
Chiaroscuro
Member
I think that is the point. If Ford remains a god with god like powers over everything the show will go nowhere. Available nemesis for him could be Maeve (after all, the episode she awakes is called "The adversary") but it would look too cheap, MiB (but if he would like to destroy Ford he could have did that before, he is there for something else - Dolores - and Ford is just a side distraction), Delos board (but that would be too emotional weak) and Bernard (which would fit poethicaly the role of Arnold's will and the rise of self-aware AIs).
The show is always dubious to lead the viewers in the wrong direction and later tries to say "surprise!". Why we cannot see Bernard's death clearly? Ford could have stayed in the room to the end for the viewers to witness his "death" (and later reprogramming). Ford is not weak or sentimental, he did not need to leave the room (he did not with Theresa). So the show presented us with a scene of Ford leaving, we follow him and his perspective of the facts, we hear a gun being fired and a shadow falling. Again, that is Ford's perspective, may not be the reality.
Chiaroscuro
Member
The talks scenes we saw "Bernard" talking with Dolores were not that, that was Arnold talking to Dolores 34 years ago. I think Bernard never speaked to Dolores in the current timeline. But you are right that seems to be more on Arnold that may surprise Ford, as much Ford was surprised by the kid host liying to him.
This is true. If she is really dead the show would be more clear about that. That scene is proposital vague.
What proof is there for three timelines though? When Dolores is meeting the MiB in the church, she's wearing the same clothes (jeans) as in the prior scenes with William and Logan. The simplest option would be that those are the same timeline. Of course the show could be fucking with us. We'll just have to see I guess.
Zoe
Member
Her shirt was cut wide open.
ClosingADoor
Member
She got stabbed in the timeline with William and Logan.
Then she runs away. She hears the "remember" and then she is no longer stabbed. She even looks around confused and notices she is not stabbed anymore.
Random speculation: Ford was printing another host when Bernard and Theresa found that room, could be an Elsie host. Or...Ford probably knows Stubbs was onto Bernard and Theresa, so maybe replacing Stubbs with a host, using Elsie as bait to get him there.
Another observation, Sizemore was also aware of something between Bernard and Theresa. In the pilot, Theresa calls Bernard "Bernie" in front of him, which he notices. Probably won't amount to much but I did find it interesting.
Another observation, Sizemore was also aware of something between Bernard and Theresa. In the pilot, Theresa calls Bernard "Bernie" in front of him, which he notices. Probably won't amount to much but I did find it interesting.
Shambalakan
Member
Poor Bernard... (
I hope we'll see Anthony Hopkins in the next season, he's really amazing! But really doubt he'll survive and think he'll get killed in the finale. (not by Maeve please! :| )
(I hope we'll see Anthony Hopkins in the next season, he's really amazing! But really doubt he'll survive and think he'll get killed in the finale. (not by Maeve please! :| )
It's actually a lot more than three if you count the flashbacks of her dead in the water etc.
I guess the finale will show us how/why she kills Arnold in the blue dress timeline.
I'll admit this is by far the worst storyline in the show, I keep hoping it'll go somewhere or get interesting - but hasn't yet.
The Lamonster
Member
I think he was printing a copy of himself!
I think it'll be really bad for the show if Hopkins isn't around in future. Ed Harris too but he's been confirmed for next season. If they get rid of Hopkins they better find another great actor to bring on board.Poor Bernard...
I hope we'll see Anthony Hopkins in the next season, he's really amazing! But really doubt he'll survive and think he'll get killed in the finale. (not by Maeve please! :| )