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[SuperStiltzkin]

For as significant a role as he plays, Felix feels like a tertiary character. He's there to get his tablet get taken from him and they never explore any conflict of conscience to show if he's prepared to get tons of real life people killed out of sympathy for Maeve and the hosts. One butcher gets macheted through the chest, another is forced to swallow his own finger, and tons of guards get gunned down. And no healing tool is gonna bring them back as Hector and Lady are firm believers in double double double tap.

 

[rhino4evr]

It doesn't feel any different to me than discussions with friends on what the twists could be. Just using tech to save screenshots and mull things over longer.

True twist was Ford being a good guy and caring about the hosts IMO. You need multiple reveals these days because if there are enough clues we are going to figure that shit out. So they need obvious reveals to distract you from the true reveal these days (which this show delivered on)

You only feel that way because you figured out or read about the reveal online. Yes I was happy to be surprised by Ford and Thankfully I didn't read the theories about Arnold and Bernard, but don't act like the William reveal wasn't a huge one. They spent way too much time on it not to be. The Whole narrative was structured on it.

 

[marrec]

For as significant a role as he plays, Felix feels like a tertiary character. He's there to get his tablet get taken from him and they never explore any conflict of conscience to show if he's prepared to get tons of real life people killed out of sympathy for Maeve and the hosts. One butcher gets macheted through the chest, another is forced to swallow his own finger, and tons of guards get gunned down. And no healing tool is gonna bring them back as Hector and Lady are firm believers in double double double tap.

Yep, I got big problems with Felix, dude shares motivations with a boulder rolling down a hill. Like, he's not actually participating in any conscious decision making process, just letting the gravity of the situation bring him back to rest until the plot requires him to magically change things again.

His existential crisis in ep 10 was hilarious though.

 

[boxter432]

Yep, I got big problems with Felix, dude shares motivations with a boulder rolling down a hill. Like, he's not actually participating in any conscious decision making process, just letting the gravity of the situation bring him back to rest until the plot requires him to magically change things again.

His existential crisis in ep 10 was hilarious though.

yep all worth it for him to stare down thinking he's a host lol.

 

[Zoe]

This is what Bernard whispers to Abernathy,

Spoiler

for now

Source: after buzz TV ep10 recap, with the actor playing Abernathy as guest.

That's it?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Did William recognize Bernard at the party? William did sort of a double take when they walked past each other.

If so, did he recognize him as a host or as a park employee?

 

[Jokab]

Did William recognize Bernard at the party? William did sort of a double take when they walked past each other.

If so, did he recognize him as a host or as a park employee?

I would assume William knows about Bernard being a host since he is the majority shareholder.

 

[Shogmaster]

Before SW reveal, I thought Felix was the worst part of the show, a character with ridiculous motivations. But now, I think he is simply a host under Ford's control. Previously I ruled that out since there would be no reason for Delos to make Asian hosts for West World, but SW reveal makes that possible. Also, even though she seemingly block the idea of Felix being host earlier in the episode, Maeve's line about him making a terrible human pretty much seals it for me.

 

[Cornballer]

- NY Mag Podcast: Westworld’s Creators on How They Feel About Fan Theories, and What They’ll Do Differently in Season Two

Nolan and Joy spoke to Vulture about filming that sequence in five different locations, what the camera work tells us about how much agency Maeve has right now, and why at least one of the characters will get out of the park next season. Listen to the conversation, and read an edited transcript below.

Some of the transcript:

GE: The show is famously, has this massive budget — $10 million per episode. I'm curious how that breaks down — is there one area of the show where that is being used most?

JN: I can give a general sense that what's great about making this show, and one of the reasons why we knew HBO is the right partner, is from Game of Thrones and that commitment to practical production. Meaning you're going out and you're shooting in the real place. We went out and shot in Utah. So that's a key part of the experience for us. And people are notoriously tight-lipped about budgets. I would hasten to point out we are far from the most expensive show that's been made in the last couple of years as TV grows into something else, which is very exciting to see happen.

AR: If we're talking about speculation we'd be remiss if we didn't ask, are we going to see more of the world, both of the park or parks plural, and/or the outside world in season two?

LJ: We've already teased a little bit of the broader world of the park there. And honestly, I would just put my faith in the hosts that they're pretty crafty, and they're pretty powerful, and their intellect is growing and growing. I would imagine that at least one, ultimately, gets a bigger look at the world. Who and when, I'm not quite sure yet.

JN: Well you are sure, you're just being…

LJ: Okay fine, I can't say!

Also:
- Jimmi Simpson interview with ETOnline
- The Verge panel discussion: The Westworld finale: frustrations, revelations, and how the whole first season holds together
- The Atlantic: Westworld and the False Promise of Storytelling
- LA Times: Westworld Finale

 

[PizzaFace]

Finally approved, wanted to share my thoughts on the show.

I love it. I adore it. People make LOST comparisons as a negative, to me personally that's the biggest compliment the show could get.

I've longed for a show that sticks in my mind as much as LOST did, and I think we might just have it.

 

[Heckler456]

Just finished the finale. Great first season, can't wait to see what they do next. Them take a bit of a longer break between seasons is fine by me too, seeing as I take it as a sign that they really want to get this thing right.

Also, I hope beyond hope that we'll see more

Spoiler

Anthony Hopkins. Same for Ed Harris. They didn't seem to outright kill him at the end there

, so there's still hope.

 

[Future]

Or you could just have a well written show with good acting and direction that doesn't rely on cheap twists to keep people engaged i dunno

Or you could have the highest rated HBO series premiere since game of thrones, I dunno

You only feel that way because you figured out or read about the reveal online. Yes I was happy to be surprised by Ford and Thankfully I didn't read the theories about Arnold and Bernard, but don't act like the William reveal wasn't a huge one. They spent way too much time on it not to be. The Whole narrative was structured on it.

I will never know how much I would have figured out without reading and discussing online, it's true. But the theories made me go back and rewatch episodes myself which created my own conclusions. Hearing those theories felt no different than a friend giving me his random theory about anything. Either way, it causes you to rethink things and decide if any of it makes sense. Arnold = Bernard was what I thought of personally right away once it started to click there were multiple timelines going on, and Delores was always clothed speaking to him at times that didn't make sense depending on where Delores was a scene before

There are many layers of reveals. Some have heavy foreshadowing and are meant to be caught, then there are other more subtle ones that still make sense but are harder to nail down. Mr Robot season 1 did this very well with

Spoiler

mr robot being fake. That was the one people guessed, but less people knew it was his dad and even less knew Darlene was his sister

.

I can understand some frustration, but I love the theorizing and talk leading towards the next ep. If you are afraid of people being right, I guess you just have to avoid talking to anyone about it

 

[Great Poster]

I don't get gun behaviors. At first they're non-lethal then we see Arnold getting shot by Delores. We have to assume that is a real gun -- OK, she even digs it up later and assume its the same one to kill Ford.

But what about Clementine and the rest of the zombie robot horde. William gets shot with blood and all.

I know the original movie dealt with this (and assuming the book did as well), but the show just kind of goes with, if they really die, its a real gun. But since we have this mystery of who is really a person/who is really a host, then it becomes even more confusing/distracting.

 

[marrec]

Or you could have the highest rated HBO series premiere since game of thrones, I dunno

What does that have to do with what I said? Did I fall asleep and wake up in popGAF?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I don't get gun behaviors. At first they're non-lethal then we see Arnold getting shot by Delores. We have to assume that is a real gun -- OK, she even digs it up later and assume its the same one to kill Ford.

But what about Clementine and the rest of the zombie robot horde. William gets shot with blood and all.

I know the original movie dealt with this (and assuming the book did as well), but the show just kind of goes with, if they really die, its a real gun. But since we have this mystery of who is really a person/who is really a host, then it becomes even more confusing/distracting.

All the hosts have guns that shoot rubber bullets. Humans have real guns, but probably have some safety mechanism where you can't shoot other guests. Arnold gave Dolores a real gun for the massacre and suicide. Ford gave Dolores that same gun and then gave the host army real guns also.

 

[-griffy-]

- The Atlantic: Westworld and the False Promise of Storytelling

This is a good read an exemplifies a lot of why I dug the season so much.

All the hosts have guns that shoot rubber bullets. Humans have real guns, but probably have some safety mechanism where you can't shoot other guests. Arnold gave Dolores a real gun for the massacre and suicide. Ford gave Dolores that same gun and then gave the host army real guns also.

The guns (or probably more accurately the ammunition) use some kind of advanced tech that changes attributes based on who is being shot. A host can shoot another host and it behaves as a normal gun shot, but then shoot a guest and it is like a hard paintball. The guests have the same type of guns. Dolores' gun at the end was either a real gun or the safety measure had been disabled so the guns could injure humans.

 

[Zoe]

All the hosts have guns that shoot rubber bullets. Arnold gave Dolores a real gun for the massacre and suicide. Ford gave Dolores that same gun and then gave the host army real guns also.

They're not rubber bullets. The bullets are strong enough to pierce walls.

When Hector dug the bullet out of Maeve, it looked like a regular bullet.

 

[Great Poster]

They're not rubber bullets. The bullets are strong enough to pierce walls.

When Hector dug the bullet out of Maeve, it looked like a regular bullet.

See...all these theories are exactly my point...it wasn't clear in the show, and the use of guns is VERY central to host/human interaction, so its kinda important, so in my mind, yeah I can come up with plausibilities of how it might or should behave, but its distracting.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

This is a good read an exemplifies a lot of why I dug the season so much.



The guns (or probably more accurately the ammunition) use some kind of advanced tech that changes attributes based on who is being shot. A host can shoot another host and it behaves as a normal gun shot, but then shoot a guest and it is like a hard paintball. The guests have the same type of guns. Dolores' gun at the end was either a real gun or the safety measure had been disabled so the guns could injure humans.

They're not rubber bullets. The bullets are strong enough to pierce walls.

When Hector dug the bullet out of Maeve, it looked like a regular bullet.

Oh...okay. I assumed they were rubber because Teddy dumped his whole revolver in MiB.

 

[-griffy-]

See...all these theories are exactly my point...it wasn't clear in the show, and the use of guns is VERY central to host/human interaction, so its kinda important, so in my mind, yeah I can come up with plausibilities of how it might or should behave, but its distracting.

It's pretty clear in the second episode when William is being introduced to the park and asks if the guns are real, and the host hostess replies "Real enough, but you can't kill anyone you're not supposed to." We see the guns harm hosts, and see them not harm guests. Pretty self evident.

 

[Dimmle]

Yeah, someone please explain the magic bullets. They're context sensitive?

 

[marrec]

It's pretty clear in the second episode when William is being introduced to the park and asks if the guns are real, and the host hostess replies "Real enough, but you can't kill anyone you're not supposed to." We see the guns harm hosts, and see them not harm guests. Pretty self evident.

How does that work though?

Are there special bullets that kill hosts but not guests? Does that mean hosts are less durable than guests? When there's a shootout going down and the host badguy shoots a host good guy then turns to shoot a guest good guy, does the gun know and switch bullets?

Later, when Teddy rides in and shoots William, those bullets are clearly more vigorous than when Teddy previously was shooting William in Episode 1. Is that because those bullets are powered by Teddy's love for Dolores?!

I guess the answer is that

Spoiler

the show has multiple logical and plot inconsistencies that you're supposed to gloss over cause it's still a pretty cool and well written show even if it relies too much on stupid twists you can see from a mile away

I don't know if I actually like this show tbh

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

It's pretty clear in the second episode when William is being introduced to the park and asks if the guns are real, and the host hostess replies "Real enough, but you can't kill anyone you're not supposed to." We see the guns harm hosts, and see them not harm guests. Pretty self evident.

It's a weird thing to expect the audience to connect the dots like that though. Shape-shifting bullets?

 

[-griffy-]

The entire premise of the show is based on technology so advanced that we can't even understand it. The bullets are using some kind of advanced technology that is beyond what exists in our world. They hurt hosts, but don't hurt guests. We see that demonstrated numerous times. That's it.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

[Veritigo_X]

I think they fucked up by having guests being hit with actual projectiles. I like how the movie did it. If a gun is pointed at a guest it wouldn't fire. Easy enough to understand. The show complicated things a bit with magic bullets.

 

[marrec]

The entire premise of the show is based on technology so advanced that we can't even understand it. The bullets are using some kind of advanced technology that is beyond what exists in our world. They hurt hosts, but don't hurt guests. We see that demonstrated numerous times. That's it.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So shapeshifting bullets then.

So if a host got ahold of a gun that it THOUGHT contained shapeshifting bullets but didn't actually contain shapeshifting bullets then they could kill a Guest cause they wouldn't know they'd be firing deadly bullets.

Seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Zoe]

They suggest that there's some kind of technology that can auto-adjust the velocity of the bullets depending on the target. During William's first time, Sweetwater bullets still hit with force, but by the present they don't make an impact on him at all until he's near the edge of the park.

The hosts aren't allowed to make point blank shots because the range is too close to not harm the humans.

 

[Great Poster]

It's pretty clear in the second episode when William is being introduced to the park and asks if the guns are real, and the host hostess replies "Real enough, but you can't kill anyone you're not supposed to." We see the guns harm hosts, and see them not harm guests. Pretty self evident.

Except for the one that shoots William in the end, and presumably the ones being carried by the horde. So clearly they're different. Again, I realize its a minor point, but is kind of distracting given the attention to detail of their behavior that was clearly described in Ep. 2 as you mentioned. They even go to the point of telling us that Delores gun (the one she killed arnold with) was buried/hidden for her to find later.

I just think its kind of sloppy to have everything neatly described/covered except at the end where its basically "well, duh, of course those guns are real."

In a world where we're supposed to believe in super-science advanced technology that has magic guns that can/can't kill based on the target, a simple line from Ford stating "I've had the protocols for all firearms altered, they're fully lethal now." couldn't have been inserted somewhere in some discussion. Especially given that we're wondering who might be/might not be a Host, having them killed by guns makes it even more odd

 

[-griffy-]

Except for the one that shoots William in the end, and presumably the ones being carried by the horde. So clearly they're different. Again, I realize its a minor point, but is kind of distracting given the attention to detail of their behavior that was clearly described in Ep. 2 as you mentioned. They even go to the point of telling us that Delores gun (the one she killed arnold with) was buried/hidden for her to find later.

I just think its kind of sloppy to have everything neatly described/covered except at the end where its basically "well, duh, of course those guns are real."

In a world where we're supposed to believe in super-science advanced technology that has magic guns that can/can't kill based on the target, a simple line from Ford stating "I've had the protocols for all firearms altered, they're fully lethal now." couldn't have been inserted somewhere in some discussion. Especially given that we're wondering who might be/might not be a Host, having them killed by guns makes it even more odd

I mean, at that point in Ford's narrative the guns are intended to kill, so whatever safe guards are in place would not be in place. Seeing the guns kill humans demonstrates that pretty well. I really feel like this isn't as complicated as some are making it.

 

[Future]

What does that have to do with what I said? Did I fall asleep and wake up in popGAF?

That there is a correlation with the writing style that led to immense popularity. May not be your taste but people love that shit. The writing was great because everything was foreshadowed very well making reveals satisfying. And the acting is obviously good

Spoiler

besides maybe the butcher dude, but can't win me all I guess

Never had a comment compared to pop GAF. First for everything I guess

 

[Angry Grimace]

Did William recognize Bernard at the party? William did sort of a double take when they walked past each other.

If so, did he recognize him as a host or as a park employee?

I think it was intentional that you weren't supposed to know whether William actually knows Bernard or not via that glance.

 

[Mega]

It was the edge of the park. I'd imagine that the horse "host" blew up when it hit the end and took Logan with it. Logan being naked makes it look like it was stupid drunk idea Logan had himself.

The horse is a robot that would never knowingly kill a guest. He basically made him exit the park in the most embarrassing way possible. Logan should be fine.

Re the park's bullets... they're smart bullets that at worst do superficial harm to guests. I think it depends on the difficulty and danger of a narrative that a host has partaken in. Bullets in the William time period hit harder. Bullets in the MIB time period impact like powder pellets. Dolores's gun is old, hits MIB hard and knocks him down.

The hosts at the end acquired real guns with which to kill humans.

I think it was intentional that you weren't supposed to know whether William actually knows Bernard or not via that glance.

I think he recognizes him as a techy park employee and wonders what he's doing at a ritzy event for the board and shareholders.

 

[erawsd]

Yeah, someone please explain the magic bullets. They're context sensitive?

(Jonathan Nolan) We thought a lot about this. In the original film, the guns won’t operate guest on guest, but we felt like the guests would want to have a more visceral experience here. So when they’re shot it has sort of the impact. They’re called simunitions. The U.S. military trains with rounds like the ones we’re talking about. But there’s a bit of an impact, a bit of a sting. So it’s not entirely consequence-free for the guests.

http://www.slashfilm.com/hbo-westworld-tca-jonah-nolan/

My guess is that Ford just put real bullets in the guns when he released the retired hosts from cold storage.

 

[Lashley]

That was amazing.

2018 until season two?

Also, Armistice was stupendously hot this episode. That kiss on the glass was amazing.

 

[Jack Scofield]

*MiB fights for his life against Dolores, and barely survives after stabbing her in the stomach, getting his arm broken, and very nearly getting killed*

MiB to Ford: "It's just not real enough! There's no danger!"

 

[Ferrio]

*MiB fights for his life against Dolores, and barely survives after stabbing her in the stomach, getting his arm broken, and very nearly getting killed*

MiB to Ford: "It's just not real enough! There's no danger!"

The key word "nearly". Doesn't matter how badly he gets beat up, if you can't die there's no real danger.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Thread is moving too quick for me to keep up, but has the naked Logan on horseback been discussed yet?
What the hell was that all about lol? When the camera cut to Logan totally butt naked strapped to the horse I just cracked up (pun intended).

Why the hell did William do that? Was he trying to kill him? Are we supposed to think he's dead?

It's intentionally ambiguous what happened to Logan. Common rules of fiction suggest it means Logan will pop up again in the future. I assume he isn't dead for a couple of reasons - the horse shouldn't allow him to die and its just good fiction to have him come back as William's antagonist.

 

[Mega]

Honestly think this is the first time the internet ruined a finale for me. I may have been able to put William / MiB theory together myself eventually, but reading about it so early really lessened the reveal.

I have some very smart friends, that don't read recaps and discussion boards, and don't sit and gloss on every single detail (like the company logo) that were legitimately shocked by the finale.

I think I'm through reading "fan theories" from now on, and I'd say that these theories are just as bad as spoilers when they turn out true.

Yeah, for real. This is the first time I have spoiled myself so thoroughly for a show like this and it will absolutely be the last. I'm checking out of all the discussion threads and speculation articles when season 2 begins.

 

[Einchy]

The key word "nearly". Doesn't matter how badly he gets beat up, if you can't die there's no real danger.

Yeah, it's the illusion of danger but at the end of the day, it's just an illusion.

 

[Mega]

*MiB fights for his life against Dolores, and barely survives after stabbing her in the stomach, getting his arm broken, and very nearly getting killed*

MiB to Ford: "It's just not real enough! There's no danger!"

He wasn't fighting for his life and there was no danger of not surviving. The arm thing, which may have simply been a sprain or a break, doesn't matter as he probably 100% healed right after by the medical wizardry of the time... that was basically the park's highest difficulty setting and left him disappointed.

 

[Glass Shark]

Radiohead created the perfect ending song for absolutely anything.

 

[Glass Shark]

The entire premise of the show is based on technology so advanced that we can't even understand it. The bullets are using some kind of advanced technology that is beyond what exists in our world. They hurt hosts, but don't hurt guests. We see that demonstrated numerous times. That's it.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Yeah, if you think too much about pretty much any of the tech in this show it all breaks down. Better to not think about it too much.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

 

[Nothus]

Radiohead created the perfect ending song for absolutely anything.

I felt a huge grin spread across my face as soon as I recognised what it was.

 

[The Lamonster]

Finale was..ok. Still didn't attempt to explain the asian guy and his friend's utter stupidity in enabling Maeve to get to where she did. If they were hosts that were programmed to do so, that would at least partly rationalize it.

and almost everything they did would've set off a ton of automated alarms if Westworld was real.

 

[marrec]

and almost everything they did would've set off a ton of automated alarms if Westworld was real.

"Someone's been reprogramming the Alarms to ignore these faults!"

"Oh, you didn't know? The Alarms are Hosts to, Arnold built them because he wanted to recreate the sound of the 20th century Swedish New Wave band The Alarms but he realized too late that he'd gone too far and they were Pop Punk instead of New Wave. So he rolled them back and made them actual Alarms."

 

[M.W.]

The finale was ok. There was nothing that shocked/surprised me. It was all pretty much how I expected it to go. Solid first season effort. 7/10

 

[Matty77]

I also find Teddy's look of disgust at the murder funny but not surprising.

He's a character motivated solely by his feelings for Dolores played by James Marsden king of the L's in Hollywood as a love interest, did anybody really expect it to end well.

 

[okdakor]

Dolores's gun is old, hits MIB hard and knocks him down.

Also, MiB is an old guy... When he first met Teddy I guess he was just starting his gaming session. After that he traveled a lot, was KOed a couple time, and the game was getting rougher... And then Dolores breaks his arm, drags him around... Magic bullets or not, he's going down.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

btw, aside from Ford pulling a 180 on his character between episodes four and nine, has everyone also noticed the whole missing 'incident' 30 years ago?
What's the point of a stable time loop if you don't actually explain its components?

and don't tell me William is supposed to be that incident. Like, come on.

 

[Ferrio]

btw, aside from Ford pulling a 180 on his character between episodes four and nine, has everyone also noticed the whole missing 'incident' 30 years ago?
What's the point of a stable time loop if you don't actually explain its components?

and don't tell me William is supposed to be that incident. Like, come on.

Did they ever actually call what happened 30 years ago an incident?

There was the incident before the park opened. There was no incident with William 30 years ago but he did save the park then due to funding.