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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Yeah, it's official, but I'm totally gaga over Armistice. She was a badass earlier, but this episode cemented the coolness. And hotness. I guess they kept her covered in terrible clothes and the hat and grime so I never realized how gorgeous her actor is.

http://imgur.com/ejK8KYk

That smirking kiss she gives to Sylvester had me in stitches. I hope she and Hector survives, and then she gets a bionic arm and continues fucking people up.

Indeed. He is now getting a game with stakes. In the end, he is the man that has everything. He is completely admired in real life and he is a god in the game. This is him finally having something where he can proof what he is worth.

I'm waiting on Old Man Logan to show up and fuck him up with a vengeance 35 years in the making...

SHOGUN WORLD INVASION LED BY OLD MAN LOGAN

"BILLY! IT'S NOT OVER. NOT YET."

"What the fuck, Logan."

"That's racist as fuck."

 

[KeRaSh]

Maeve getting off the train was the first time she actually went off her narrative. In fact, everything involving her daughter caused her to go off script. It's part of the suffering that ford was talking about.

Was it really off-script, though? I didn't pause when they showed her script before she broke the terminal. I thought she was always programmed to leave the train.

If that was the first time she went off-script then her asking Felix to get the info about her daughter was part of the script. That and the mother and child in the train triggered her going off-script? So the plan was to trigger this decision that she made on her own?
That would make sense.

 

[Anko]

Was it really off-script, though? I didn't pause when they showed her script before she broke the terminal. I thought she was always programmed to leave the train.

If that was the first time she went off-script then her asking Felix to get the info about her daughter was part of the script. That and the mother and child in the train triggered her going off-script? So the plan was to trigger this decision that she made on her own?
That would make sense.

"Mainland Infiltration" was the next step. So one would assume that the script has her staying on the train and going to the mainland.

 

[Chumley]

Ed Happy totally needs to be on every page.

This is definitely the look of a man who knows he's not getting the train home any time soon.

I wonder if there will be some kind of redemption arc for him. My favorite moment of the finale was seeing that part of what turned him into a monster was Dolores forgetting him. I think he really did love her, but once he realized the implications of what her being a machine really meant, a flip was switched inside his head forever. It's tragic in a way, I wonder if the present time moment of her calling him William was the first time he heard her say that in 30 years.

 

[duckroll]

I wonder if there will be some kind of redemption arc for him. My favorite moment of the finale was seeing that part of what turned him into a monster was Dolores forgetting him. I think he really did love her, but once he realized the implications of what her being a machine really meant, a flip was switched inside his head forever. It's tragic in a way, I wonder if the present time moment of her calling him William was the first time he heard her say that in 30 years.

I don't quite understand this. What redemption arc? Why does William need redemption? He's not a bad person. He's a sad person yes, because for all his efforts in life, it seems success never brought him the fulfilment he seeks, but I don't think he ever did anything that suggests he's a monster or a bad person. In the context of Westworld itself, nothing he did was wrong. He was testing his limits, living out violent fantasies, etc, but no one was getting hurt. In fact he did it all BECAUSE no one was getting hurt, and it all felt empty to him.

 

[sp3ctr3]

Trump World, were every one looks like Donald trump.

I just had a vault 108 flashback..

 

[Scirrocco]

My theory: With William and the board trapped n west world, someone will have to tAke control back at Delos, and I'm guessing that will be an older Logan, since his family owns the park and the corp. He'll be back with an axe to grind against William, for his sisters death, and probably being forced out by him in the time skip.

Was it really off-script, though? I didn't pause when they showed her script before she broke the terminal. I thought she was always programmed to leave the train.

If that was the first time she went off-script then her asking Felix to get the info about her daughter was part of the script. That and the mother and child in the train triggered her going off-script? So the plan was to trigger this decision that she made on her own?
That would make sense.

Bernard mentions she makes it to the mainland in her narrative, so she's definitely off script atm. It'll be intersecting to see how this facts Fords narrative, now that a key piece has moved itself out of a unique position.

Asking about her daughter wasn't scripted, keep in mind it's more like an objective then a script. The hosts are designed to be extremely flexible an adaptive in their behaviors; they adapt to changes but are supposed to keep moving the,selves In a general direction. She remembered her daughter, her programming knew she should care for her and want to find her, so asked Felix to find her, but her narrative tried to keep her moving towards the goal, so she tried to ignore it and not let it interfere.

 

[MisterFalcon]

It was the first time Maeve went off her current script.

We see the first time Maeve goes off script, when she wills herself to stay alive and slashes MiB's throat when he shoots her daughter, and then breaks her programming and refuses to be wiped.

Maeve's escape felt very scripted, a sequence of well known movie tropes. Not as a criticism of the writing of the show, just an indication the whole thing was thought up in the reality of the show by someone with limited imagination.

-Lights failing dramatically
-Someone does not notice the mayhem in the background
-Active Hosts hiding in plain sight in a room full of inactive ones
-Security guards who serve no purpose beyond providing the escapees with weapons and opportunities to look badass
-Armistice being neutralized in a way that leaves her relatively intact to return later on

 

[KeRaSh]

"Mainland Infiltration" was the next step. So one would assume that the script has her staying on the train and going to the mainland.

Awesome! Didn't catch that. But that poses the question: Who programmed that into her?
Who wants to infiltrate the mainland? Sounds like something another host would want?

 

[Harlock]

After a lot of series copying Lost bulshit system, where they throw everything and later try to glue together, is very good to watch a show that has everything planned and making sense.

 

[Kworn]

So NONE of them were truly sentient in the end?

It was all a part of fords new adventure?

 

[Chumley]

I don't quite understand this. What redemption arc? Why does William need redemption? He's not a bad person. He's a sad person yes, because for all his efforts in life, it seems success never brought him the fulfilment he seeks, but I don't think he ever did anything that suggests he's a monster or a bad person. In the context of Westworld itself, nothing he did was wrong. He was testing his limits, living out violent fantasies, etc, but no one was getting hurt. In fact he did it all BECAUSE no one was getting hurt, and it all felt empty to him.

I guess I mean finding his empathy again and seeing the hosts the way he used to, seeing Dolores as a person instead of some plaything where beating her and killing her means nothing.

 

[Joni]

So NONE of them were truly sentient in the end?

Dolores has become sentient, her shooting of Ford seems to imply that she broke free and ironically in doing that did exactly what he wanted; and it seems Maeve has as well.

 

[Kworn]

Dolores has become sentient, her shooting of Ford seems to imply that she broke free and ironically in doing that did exactly what he wanted; and it seems Maeve has as well.

I did not get that impression at all.

It was a loop killing ford just like it was 30 years ago with Arnold...and Maeve's whole plot was to distract the security team from the robot zombie hoard.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Dolores in sentient. Bernard is sentient.

Dunno if Bernard is sentient. Definitely self aware though. I think the only truly sentient host is Dolores and possibly Maeve.

I did not get that impression at all.

It was a loop killing ford just like it was 30 years ago with Arnold...and Maeve's whole plot was to distract the security team from the robot zombie hoard.

I think it was implied that she gained consciousness when she learned that she was thinking for herself and it wasn't Arnold telling her what to do. I dont think thats the actual right definition of consciousness but it probably is in the WW world.

 

[Matt]

I don't quite understand this. What redemption arc? Why does William need redemption? He's not a bad person. He's a sad person yes, because for all his efforts in life, it seems success never brought him the fulfilment he seeks, but I don't think he ever did anything that suggests he's a monster or a bad person. In the context of Westworld itself, nothing he did was wrong. He was testing his limits, living out violent fantasies, etc, but no one was getting hurt. In fact he did it all BECAUSE no one was getting hurt, and it all felt empty to him.

Depends what actually happened to Logan I guess.

 

[Einchy]

I don't quite understand this. What redemption arc? Why does William need redemption? He's not a bad person. He's a sad person yes, because for all his efforts in life, it seems success never brought him the fulfilment he seeks, but I don't think he ever did anything that suggests he's a monster or a bad person. In the context of Westworld itself, nothing he did was wrong. He was testing his limits, living out violent fantasies, etc, but no one was getting hurt. In fact he did it all BECAUSE no one was getting hurt, and it all felt empty to him.

Dude murdered a little girl in front of her mother, William is beyond redeemable, he's a cool character but he's definitely a monster.

 

[duckroll]

Depends what actually happened to Logan I guess.

He probably runs Marvel World now.

Dude murdered a little girl in front of her mother, William is beyond redeemable, he's a cool character but he's definitely a monster.

A little girl who's still "alive" and going about doing what she was built to do. A mother who just got tricked into thinking she's some sort of awakened hero breaking out of her slavery. It's all a game. They're all robots. There's really no moral debate in Westworld as a show. Such a debate would be boring because applying any such standard would just mean everyone in the show is a monster - the humans, the robots, everything.

 

[Matt]

He probably runs Marvel World now.

I'd go.

A little girl who's still "alive" and going about doing what she was built to do. A mother who just got tricked into thinking she's some sort of awakened hero breaking out of her slavery. It's all a game. They're all robots. There's really no moral debate in Westworld as a show. Such a debate would be boring because applying any such standard would just mean everyone in the show is a monster - the humans, the robots, everything.

Right. That's actually one of my biggest problems with the show.

 

[Einchy]

A little girl who's still "alive" and going about doing what she was built to do. A mother who just got tricked into thinking she's some sort of awakened hero breaking out of her slavery. It's all a game. They're all robots. There's really no moral debate in Westworld as a show. Such a debate would be boring because applying any such standard would just mean everyone in the show is a monster - the humans, the robots, everything.

They still feel emotions and pain, even if they are brought back to life, they feel everything a real person would feel. I don't see how you can watch this whole show and still just think they're robots, the show is all about them being much more than that.

William is a monster and his wife killed herself because of how fucked up he is.

Right. That's actually one of my biggest problems with the show.

I don't think this is the case at all.

One of the reasons I liked the show so much is because all the humans were people who thought they were playing around with toys when in reality those toys were alive and not much different than them.

I think there's very clearly a big moral debate in the show.

 

[Chumley]

He probably runs Marvel World now.



A little girl who's still "alive" and going about doing what she was built to do. A mother who just got tricked into thinking she's some sort of awakened hero breaking out of her slavery. It's all a game. They're all robots. There's really no moral debate in Westworld as a show. Such a debate would be boring because applying any such standard would just mean everyone in the show is a monster - the humans, the robots, everything.

He still did it. It speaks to who he is as a person. Like when people mow down civilians in GTA, how it makes them feel as they do it is a question that matters IMO. This is that times 10 since it's as lifelike as it gets.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

He probably runs Marvel World now.

ironically he can't touch the Fox properties.

 

[Can Crusher]

That was an amazing hour of television. Just amazing.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

William's probably happy as fuck that he gets to live Dark Souls in real life.

 

[Matt]

They steal feel emotions and pain, even if they are brought back to life, they feel everything a real person would feel. I don't see how you can watch this whole show and still just think they're robots, the show is all about them being much more than that.

William is a monster and his wife killed herself because of how fucked up he is.



I don't think this is the case at all.

One of the reasons I liked the show so much is because all the humans were people who thought they were playing around with toys when in reality those toys were alive and not much different than them.

I think there's very clearly a big moral debate in the show.

Honestly I think your two arguments contradict each other. Even if you think that the robots "feel everything a real person does," and that makes hurting and killing them wrong, the fact that the guests don't know this obsolves them of any guilt.

 

[Einchy]

Honestly I think your two arguments contradict each other. Even if you think that the robots "feel everything a real person does," and that makes hurting and killing them wrong, the fact that the guests don't know this obsolves them of any guilt.

I never claimed the guests are guilty, it's like watching a little kid smother a puppy, the kid just murdered an animal but he doesn't know any better. William, however, cannot claim ignorance when the park changed him to the very core and for a while there fell in-love with Dolores AND his whole purpose is to finally free the hosts. He knows they're really alive while normal guests don't.

And it's not that I *think* the hosts feel everything a real person does, it's that we just watched ten episodes that showed us that they, in fact, DO feel everything a "real" person does.

[edit]

Logan was the guy who thought the hosts weren't really alive and Willian was the one who knew better. Ya'll dudes acting like a buncha Logans.

 

[CloudWolf]

Is Flying Lotus a GAF'er yet?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Is Flying Lotus a GAF'er yet?

wouldn't half mind this to bridge the gap before the second season

 

[aaaaa0]

That was an amazing hour of television. Just amazing.

Ahem. 90 minutes.

 

[Discotheque]

was not a fan of a lot of that finale, just explaining shit so mundanely. but then maeve began the uprising...and that ending happened. I was digging that a lot. excited for season 2 because of that escalation.

Anthony Hopkins gonna be missed dearly, he did great work this season. glad Ed Harris wasn't killed, but I don't really see why he would survive in that situation either. whatever, bring him back in season 2.

totally thought they were gonna pull a Carlitos Way with maeve at the end, surprised she lived, despite how clunky that plot was with her and the butchers her character and performance often made it some of the most entertaining stuff in the show.

 

[Joni]

I did not get that impression at all. It was a loop killing ford just like it was 30 years ago with Arnold...and Maeve's whole plot was to distract the security team from the robot zombie hoard.

I think it was implied that she gained consciousness when she learned that she was thinking for herself and it wasn't Arnold telling her what to do. I dont think thats the actual right definition of consciousness but it probably is in the WW world.

Indeed. Ford even admitted that he though Dolores was only following orders when she killed Arnold, but he seemed to have changed his mind. Like he saw the spark that Dolores had. And then her finally seeing that she wasn't talking to Arnold, was really the moment she awoke.

 

[diunxx]

I don't quite understand this. What redemption arc? Why does William need redemption? He's not a bad person. He's a sad person yes, because for all his efforts in life, it seems success never brought him the fulfilment he seeks, but I don't think he ever did anything that suggests he's a monster or a bad person. In the context of Westworld itself, nothing he did was wrong. He was testing his limits, living out violent fantasies, etc, but no one was getting hurt. In fact he did it all BECAUSE no one was getting hurt, and it all felt empty to him.

He did seem to send his fiancee's brother to his death.

 

[boneyjangles]

Thought the finale worked really well. Show was good throughout, but had some brilliant peaks, including that final episode.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Yea i ..I totally got it.

Spoiler

I didn't get it

 

[CloudWolf]

Yea i ..I totally got it.

Spoiler

I didn't get it

Ford wants the AI's to take over the (West)world, so he basically orchestrated every event in the show up to now in order to give them full sentience. In the end he locked down the security systems and had the AI's kill himself and the entire Delos board in order to kickstart the revolution. He was the person that altered the programming of Dolores, Maeve and others under the guise of "Arnold".

 

[Discotheque]

gotta say they did a great job pulling the wool over our eyes with Ford wanting this all to happen.

 

[KeRaSh]

Dolores has become sentient, her shooting of Ford seems to imply that she broke free and ironically in doing that did exactly what he wanted; and it seems Maeve has as well.

Dolores shooting Ford was also his gift to Bernard if I understood correctly. By losing Ford, Bernard becomes sentient? At least that's how I interpreted it. If not, then at least he should be well on his way to reaching that milestone.

 

[Joni]

Dolores shooting Ford was also his gift to Bernard if I understood correctly. By losing Ford, Bernard becomes sentient? At least that's how I interpreted it. If not, then at least he should be well on his way to reaching that milestone.

People have speculated that he has given Bernard his complete control over the (non-sentient) hosts as a gift.

 

[Nev]

I'm kind of disappointed that it was indeed "Ford did everything" like one would expect since the first episodes. His "new narrative" was so clearly a robot revolution that it wasn't shocking at all. That can be applied to every twist too. Bernard, William-Harris... It's the last time I read Reddit when I'm watching a show.

Everything was too obvious and turned out exactly as one would imagine. That's what stopped this show from being something truly great. As it is, it's sadly only a 8/10 for me.

The only "twist" that legit got me was the Samurai World or whatever it's called. That was great.

 

[duckroll]

He still did it. It speaks to who he is as a person. Like when people mow down civilians in GTA, how it makes them feel as they do it is a question that matters IMO. This is that times 10 since it's as lifelike as it gets.

I think ultimately this matters little though, because in the context of the show, everyone is complicit so it's kinda irrelevant? I mean if we say that MiB is a "monster" because he did something the park allowed him to do, what does it say about every other human character in the show who are either Park employees, Park founders, or Park investors, who profit off their actions in enabling this experience and ensuring that the hosts are able to continue carrying out their roles which allow guests to do such things? That's my point.

And the direction of the story has shifted to one now where there is open rebellion from the hosts, and they are just killing anyone in their way, with no regard for human life. So... that's terrible too. Does anyone agree that the people working in the park and running it all deserve to die?

So since this is the extent of the setting in the entire show so far, what redemption is there for anyone? What moral debate is there? We're not comparing any of these people with ourselves or our current society. There is no outside world portrayed, there's no baseline comparison for what a decent normal human being is in this world.

 

[Einchy]

It's the last time I read Reddit when I'm watching a show.

Everything was too obvious and turned out exactly as one would imagine. That's what stopped this show from being something truly great. As it is, it's sadly only a 8/10 for me.

Isn't that on you and not on the show?

 

[Mokujin]

No, his maze hunt was the DLC, he finished it and it turned out to be a low effort fetch quest of nothing using the same assets and content in the campaigns he already played. He was disappointed, but then in the post-credits it finally unlocked NG+ with Hardcore Mode.

He's the only one who got Chapter 3 after the credits, lucky bastard.

 

[kami_sama]

Maeve getting off the train was the first time she actually went off her narrative. In fact, everything involving her daughter caused her to go off script. It's part of the suffering that ford was talking about

Damn, I didn't think of that. That's a perfect explanation to it too.
So, in the end, Maeve's the one that has reached the center of the labyrinth, and not Dolores.

 

[Nev]

Isn't that on you and not on the show?

Yes, but even if I hadn't read theories, I could see that Ford was the one behind everything and that's alledgedly the biggest twist. Everybody could see it to be honest, it was glaringly obvious.

Never thought of Bernard being a host though before reading Reddit, that's a twist I could've had.

 

[duckroll]

Yes, but even if I hadn't read theories, I could see that Ford was the one behind everything and that's alledgedly the biggest twist. Everybody could see it to be honest, it was glaringly obvious.

Never thought of Bernard being a host though before reading Reddit, that's a twist I could've had.

But why does anything require twists to be truly great. I don't think Westworld is a great show, but the weaknesses are in the lack of good characterization and the plot leaning too heavily into being a narrative gimmick, but because the twists were or weren't predictable. Ideally the best stories ever are the ones which don't really have any surprises but are still so well told they can be enjoyed over and over regardless of expectations.

 

[boneyjangles]

I'm kind of disappointed that it was indeed "Ford did everything" like one would expect since the first episodes. His "new narrative" was so clearly a robot revolution that it wasn't shocking at all. That can be applied to every twist too. Bernard, William-Harris... It's the last time I read Reddit when I'm watching a show.

Everything was too obvious and turned out exactly as one would imagine. That's what stopped this show from being something truly great. As it is, it's sadly only a 8/10 for me.

Sounds like a classic case of 'i read too many potential spoilers that in hindsight were obvious'.

Maybe if you hadn't read up on the show on reddit so much it would have been fresher and more surprising each week.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Ford wants the AI's to take over the (West)world, so he basically orchestrated every event in the show up to now in order to give them full sentience. In the end he locked down the security systems and had the AI's kill himself and the entire Delos board in order to kickstart the revolution. He was the person that altered the programming of Dolores, Maeve and others under the guise of "Arnold".

So if suffering is the magic ingredient, I'm assuming that he groomed Bernard to be the steward of the robo petri dish and Doloryat (Wylores?) to be the agent that inflicts the said suffering.

 

[| Praxis |]

Yeah, it's official, but I'm totally gaga over Armistice. She was a badass earlier, but this episode cemented the coolness. And hotness. I guess they kept her covered in terrible clothes and the hat and grime so I never realized how gorgeous her actor is.

http://imgur.com/ejK8KYk

That smirking kiss she gives to Sylvester had me in stitches. I hope she and Hector survives, and then she gets a bionic arm and continues fucking people up.

Seeing her naked certainly helped.

 

[robotzombie]

I did not get that impression at all.

It was a loop killing ford just like it was 30 years ago with Arnold...and Maeve's whole plot was to distract the security team from the robot zombie hoard.

heeey

 

[Shambalakan]

Wow! What an amazing finale! Really loved it.
But what happened to Stubbs and Elsie?