Don Draper's Hat
Member
The only bad thing about this show is that English bloke. Terrible, terrible actor.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Out of curiosity, can you name some shows that you'd consider up to your standards?
I think it's more that he has to play a character who sometimes seems out of place because he's such a nutcase.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I think the manager woman is pretty bad. I swear she's a robot.
afternoon delight
Member
I'm telling you, it's the writing! Listen to what they're having to deliver. At least in the pilot, it was some boring tit-for-tat going nowhere false conflict stuff to set up "the secret" and establish that they're "players in the deep game".
I'm really more of a movie person so I think that affects my standards... I also grew up with cheap nineties sitcoms on cable television repeats so I burnt out young on a lot of procedural drama... On HBO alone I think Boardwalk Empire seasons 1 through 3 are perfect, da David Simon discography of Treme, The Wire, Generation Kill, and Show Me a Hero with a shoutout to The Corner are all mind meltingly wonderful, True Detective Season 1 slays as the true Twin Peaks successor, Veep and Flight of the Conchords and the first seasons of Vice Principals and Eastbound and Down are all very fun with Curb being the GOAT, Six Feet Under makes me weep and didn't have a bad season.
I still haven't seen Deadwood, OZ, Rome, or The Sopranos so I'm still padawan status.
That's just HBO material mind ye- still haven't seen Breaking Bad or Mad Men despite the acclaim.
Ep 2 spoilers and Series speculation:
Location:
Man in Black:
Ford:
Other:
That's enough rambling for now.
Edit:
I think we did hit every one of those points ourselves. I think the only one we can debunk from the list is that
Location:
So the way they entered the park doesn't really settle anything in regards to the actual location. Thet could have been a short tram ride from a spaceport, or it could have been an intercontinental bullet train going underwater. I was watching this in less than ideal conditions so I may be wrong, but I thought some of the backdrops looked like a starry sky in either the scenes with the Host, or when the two employees were hooking up.
Man in Black:
Being a known quantity is not surprising to me. The fact that he has free reign is interesting. Why would he have exceptions made for him? Is he super rich and simply pays for the special treatment? If so, it seems a little odd that he wouldn't be recognizable to other guests/employees. I'm thinking of something like Bill Gates visiting Disneyland. This is possible, but kind of boring. Doesn't tie him into the event 30 years ago very well. If he was a problem, they'd probably stop letting him in. If he's a victim, it goes back into my thoughts below.
Is he a shareholder with connections? I could see a partial owner of the company being allowed to run rampant like this, but it raises questions about the maze and his goals. It would mean Ford or someone put in this special content specifically for him to solve, so he's doing it entirely for his own amusement. It removes the question of WHY the maze or whatever exists, which kills some of the mystery. The other option is he thinks the maze is a problem and he's trying to uncover it, but if he's an owner or whatever, there has to be more effective ways he could do it. How would this tie into him being involved with the event 30 years ago?
Or my favorite theory, he's a victim/casualty of whatever happened 30 years ago. Part of whatever settlement they came up with is giving him free access. Now he's just obsessed with figuring everything out, because he's mentally scarred, or he thinks he can prevent it from happening again, or is after some sick revenge. Of course, this maze being sanctioned within the game is odd. We haven't seen any employees acknowledge it though, so it could just be Ford. Maybe he's actually trying to lead the Man in Black to some specific knowledge, but has to do it circumspectly. No idea how other employees wouldn't notice the scalped host though.
Finally, he could just be a Host who registers as Human to other Hosts. In this case, it has to be something that's a secret to some employees. Again, I'd lean towards Ford fucking around behind the scenes. Maybe the Maze stuff is just a bit test he's having the Man in Black go through to prove a point of some kind.
Is he a shareholder with connections? I could see a partial owner of the company being allowed to run rampant like this, but it raises questions about the maze and his goals. It would mean Ford or someone put in this special content specifically for him to solve, so he's doing it entirely for his own amusement. It removes the question of WHY the maze or whatever exists, which kills some of the mystery. The other option is he thinks the maze is a problem and he's trying to uncover it, but if he's an owner or whatever, there has to be more effective ways he could do it. How would this tie into him being involved with the event 30 years ago?
Or my favorite theory, he's a victim/casualty of whatever happened 30 years ago. Part of whatever settlement they came up with is giving him free access. Now he's just obsessed with figuring everything out, because he's mentally scarred, or he thinks he can prevent it from happening again, or is after some sick revenge. Of course, this maze being sanctioned within the game is odd. We haven't seen any employees acknowledge it though, so it could just be Ford. Maybe he's actually trying to lead the Man in Black to some specific knowledge, but has to do it circumspectly. No idea how other employees wouldn't notice the scalped host though.
Finally, he could just be a Host who registers as Human to other Hosts. In this case, it has to be something that's a secret to some employees. Again, I'd lean towards Ford fucking around behind the scenes. Maybe the Maze stuff is just a bit test he's having the Man in Black go through to prove a point of some kind.
Ford:
After ep 1, I thought he might simply be a figurehead they kept around due to loyalty, but he clearly still holds power since he was able to veto that new storyline so easily. He's also apparently allowed to roam the park at will, in costume. Every other employee we've seen in the park was in normal clothing, with all nearby Hosts shut down.
The kid was strange. Not sure if him being there is a normal storyline that Guests can find, or if he's yet another exception Ford has. I forget the line about being bored, but it seemed to imply he was created by Ford. We've only seen two kids, right? This kid, and the one in the flashbacks?
The kid was strange. Not sure if him being there is a normal storyline that Guests can find, or if he's yet another exception Ford has. I forget the line about being bored, but it seemed to imply he was created by Ford. We've only seen two kids, right? This kid, and the one in the flashbacks?
Other:
The stuff about the non-existent town was interesting, especially in conjunction with the black "monument". Is that the site of whatever happened 30 years ago? What could the new storyline be? How does it relate to the maze?
I was confused about the Man in Black because he seemed to imply that it was the first time he had visited that particular town, or at least, it was the first time he had known about the Host's family, yet he knew exactly what the innkeeper was doing. I may have misunderstood something in that scene.
The buried gun. This was probably artistic license, but we already know that the bullets are what really matter, not the pistol. Regardless, it's origin is what really matters. I assume what guests bring into the park is strictly controlled, so my assumption is this was left by an employee(or a Host under directions from an employee).
God help them if this really is underwater, cause the design of this place is fucking horrendous. There's no bulkheads or hatches or anything to really separate sections in the case of a major breach.
I was confused about the Man in Black because he seemed to imply that it was the first time he had visited that particular town, or at least, it was the first time he had known about the Host's family, yet he knew exactly what the innkeeper was doing. I may have misunderstood something in that scene.
The buried gun. This was probably artistic license, but we already know that the bullets are what really matter, not the pistol. Regardless, it's origin is what really matters. I assume what guests bring into the park is strictly controlled, so my assumption is this was left by an employee(or a Host under directions from an employee).
God help them if this really is underwater, cause the design of this place is fucking horrendous. There's no bulkheads or hatches or anything to really separate sections in the case of a major breach.
That's enough rambling for now.
Edit:
I think we did hit every one of those points ourselves. I think the only one we can debunk from the list is that
the Man in Black is a Host operating unknown to Delos. Some of them clearly recognize him.
About the location:
thats a great point, the complete lack of any watertight doors or hatches makes it seem highly unlikely that the facility is underwater.
Also from the ep 3 preview:
Dolores is definitely going to be the "Judas steer", her role is gonna be different very soon, makes you wonder if Lowe is helping them become sentient between his conversations with Dolores and the whispering to the father.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Well I'm with you on pretty much every single one of those, but surprised Westworld disappointed you that much. Well, anyway, personal tastes and all that
Talulah Riley, Elon Musk's on-again-off-again wife.
Evan Rachel Wood? She's definitely attractive.
I meant the one with Jimmi Simpson. Thanks Dan.
And wow you were right. Twice married to Elon.
That reminds me of another thought about the hosts, and how/if they're rotated:
So we've now seen Hosts being used outside of the themed portion of the park. We've also seen that they will reuse a Host for new plotlines. We've also sort of seen how they deal with damaged Hosts.
Using Cyclops as an example, do they have a spare Cyclops that they put in rotation while the damaged one is repaired, or can they just repair him fast enough that he never misses a story cycle?
Do any theme park Hosts ever rotate to the non-themed section and vice versa? Are the the Hosts who KNOW they're Hosts, like the welcome party ones, more or less likely to have issues? It seems like the prostitute(Maeve?) and Dolores remember past lives to some degree, but not the fact that they're not Humans. I assume it would be much worse if they had any memory of being one of the welcome party Hosts as well.
Using Cyclops as an example, do they have a spare Cyclops that they put in rotation while the damaged one is repaired, or can they just repair him fast enough that he never misses a story cycle?
Do any theme park Hosts ever rotate to the non-themed section and vice versa? Are the the Hosts who KNOW they're Hosts, like the welcome party ones, more or less likely to have issues? It seems like the prostitute(Maeve?) and Dolores remember past lives to some degree, but not the fact that they're not Humans. I assume it would be much worse if they had any memory of being one of the welcome party Hosts as well.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Positively awesome second episode.
I don't really have too many questions, honestly. I'm pretty satisfied with the pacing of the reveals and explanations. I care more about characters than the minutiae of the setting.
It might help viewers that complained about not having any characters to latch on to last week. We got a pretty clear cut Welcome To West World introduction with explanations and a human surrogate. I was cool with how things were last week, nothing wrong with seeing more of the experience that guests have when they come to Westworld. I'm sure there are people that don't even leave that first room. haha
That presentation about the new campaign was some straight up E3 DLC announcement. I guarantee the writers watched some announcement videos for inspiration.
That presentation about the new campaign was some straight up E3 DLC announcement. I guarantee the writers watched some announcement videos for inspiration.
I don't really have too many questions, honestly. I'm pretty satisfied with the pacing of the reveals and explanations. I care more about characters than the minutiae of the setting.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
You know Jimmi Simpson's character
is going to get corrupted by all that sin and start acting like everyone else. You don't hire Jimmi to play a straight man.
More_Badass
Member
I was wondering where I had seen that actor before. Now it all makes sense
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
He's gonna try to keep that hat clean but it's already starting to get a little dirty.
Cornballer
Member
Tangentially related, there's an amusing note about a Westworld TV trailer on the Delos Inc website, as well.
Kinda meta with respect to HBO's programming and marketing these days, too.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
This show is fucking great.
Ok, though, something is bothering me.. how do you regulate melee weapons such as knives? Especially when you don't know whos real or not? Like, if you were in Westworld to go on a murder spree, what happens if you assume someone is a host, stab them, and turns out they're a guest?
It just seems like something that would happen WAY too often when you consider the rate people and hosts are killing hosts all over.
Ok, though, something is bothering me.. how do you regulate melee weapons such as knives? Especially when you don't know whos real or not? Like, if you were in Westworld to go on a murder spree, what happens if you assume someone is a host, stab them, and turns out they're a guest?
It just seems like something that would happen WAY too often when you consider the rate people and hosts are killing hosts all over.
Cornballer
Member
- EW Interview: Thandie Newton on Ep 2
- Digital Trends Interview: Clifton Collins Jr. (Lawrence)
- NY Times on Episode 2
- MoviePlot: 5 Things You May Have Missed in Episode 2
- Digital Trends Interview: Clifton Collins Jr. (Lawrence)
- NY Times on Episode 2
- MoviePlot: 5 Things You May Have Missed in Episode 2
killer rin
Member
So something I was wondering. Are all the guests in the same shared space? Or does each one get their own space.
I liked this episode more than the premiere.
Also who the fuck would bring their kid to some place like this?
I imagine a nearby host would stop you or something would blare up saying you're about to kill a human if it got to that point, as people seem to be constantly monitoring you. It does seem a bit too lax though.
Also who the fuck would bring their kid to some place like this?
I imagine a nearby host would stop you or something would blare up saying you're about to kill a human if it got to that point, as people seem to be constantly monitoring you. It does seem a bit too lax though.
Replace them with something scientific so they only interact with hosts while bouncing off guests?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Episode 2 moment:
Like when that dude stabs the hosts hand at the restaurant.. what the hell stops someone from doing that to a guest. I feel like assumptions about who's who have to be mistakenly made quite frequently.
And as they were eating with that silverware, I doubt it magically couldn't hurt a guest.
And as they were eating with that silverware, I doubt it magically couldn't hurt a guest.
yeah I'd like to know this as well. Originally I thought it was all digital, but it certainly seems like it's all actually there..
I wasn't terribly thrilled by the pilot. It had some good moments and it's got some great actors but I didn't really get a good feel for where the show is going. There's some mystery to the nature of the Hosts having agency and also what the Man in Black is up to. It just didn't feel like there was all that much forward momentum going into the rest of the season. I totally understand that with a high-concept show like this you've got to spend a fair amount of time just establish the world and the rules.
Actually the whole premise felt a lot like Whedon's Dollhouse, just with robots instead of brain swapped people. I think my main issue with the episode was that, outside of the interactions with the Man in Black, it felt like the stakes were always low. The hosts were the characters we got most of the real interaction with but they were ultimately just running on a loop. The bugs were probably the best part of the episode, the world going off script seems like the place were a lot of the good drama is going to come in.
The dialogue between the people running the park was for the most part a lot less interesting, the standard "Do your job" "We can't shut it all down even if there are safety issues" etc. The writer I found particularly grating. Hopkins was probably the only one of that bunch that I liked, but that I imagine is mostly a testament to his strength as an actor.
I think they could potentially iron out a lot of these issues, especially as they dive into the hosts and how they work. The pilot just didn't quite work for me.
Actually the whole premise felt a lot like Whedon's Dollhouse, just with robots instead of brain swapped people. I think my main issue with the episode was that, outside of the interactions with the Man in Black, it felt like the stakes were always low. The hosts were the characters we got most of the real interaction with but they were ultimately just running on a loop. The bugs were probably the best part of the episode, the world going off script seems like the place were a lot of the good drama is going to come in.
The dialogue between the people running the park was for the most part a lot less interesting, the standard "Do your job" "We can't shut it all down even if there are safety issues" etc. The writer I found particularly grating. Hopkins was probably the only one of that bunch that I liked, but that I imagine is mostly a testament to his strength as an actor.
I think they could potentially iron out a lot of these issues, especially as they dive into the hosts and how they work. The pilot just didn't quite work for me.
That would have to be some real scifi level shit where it would have to recognize that it's interacting with bio-organic human material near instantaneously and turn 'floppy' as a result.
In a world with 3d printable people with AI.
captjohnboyd
Member
Has anyone else noticed that some of the scenes with Ed Harris are sort of played light? I think it may be the score but even when he was doing some heinous stuff in the town it felt almost comedic. Everyone else has been posting about how his scenes are the only ones with stakes but they've felt off to me. Not every one mind you but several.
As for those said stakes I think we'll see them raised in short order. The writers know that there have to be real stakes for the shows tension to be kept up. I for one was def freaked out by the scene with Thandie Newtons character. Sorry can't write it out from mobile cause I don't know how to put spoilers
As for those said stakes I think we'll see them raised in short order. The writers know that there have to be real stakes for the shows tension to be kept up. I for one was def freaked out by the scene with Thandie Newtons character. Sorry can't write it out from mobile cause I don't know how to put spoilers
Considering they based bullets off a real life counterpart, they aren't just throwing their hands up and sayings it's unexplainable because of
Umm, pretty sure it's all one place, like a theme park
I wouldn't say they're light, but the show is clearly playing with the juxtaposition between the ostensibly horrible things the Man in Black is doing and the confident, carefree, even jaded approach he takes to them, especially with both MiB and the audience knowing he's pretty safe.
killer rin
Member
Alright. Reason I was confused was because the writer dude kept on referencing separate instances
haha! When they said the guns and tits line my immediate thought was OT2 title?
layzie1989
Member
Hopkins' feedback at the end was the sickest I've ever heard from a creative director.
CUTS ME TO THE CORE
CUTS ME TO THE CORE
More_Badass
Member
When people say the stakes are low because it's robots on loops, I feel like that they aren't grasping the point of all that. The stakes are there because of the loops. The hosts are basically in an endless sisyphean hell; it won't be pleasant when they realize that.
captjohnboyd
Member
Accurate assessment. I for one feel those stakes as well. My sympathy for the hosts is pretty high right now especially after the second episode. I still maintain that the scenes with Ed Harris are played oddly though in spite of what the poster said responding to my earlier comment. Not a complaint mind you, just an observation
Edit: thanks cornballer for spoilering my earlier post
Last Hearth
Member
Feels like the same criticism can be laid at much of today's linear story-line "cinematic" games.
The 2nd episode is much better than the 1st episode. Could it be that
the entire 'robots becoming aware of what they are" is all just Ford's new story line.
captjohnboyd
Member
They put it up on HBO go early
V1LÆM
Gold Member
ah ok! i was planning to rewatch the first episode tomorrow/sunday before episode 2. what a nice surprise!
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
They need to get rid of that english story guy.
I feel as though no progress has been made since last episode aside from showing us how the hosts are treated a bit more. I get it. I just want to see why this is all happening.
But the treatment of the hosts is heartbreaking I tell ya.
I feel as though no progress has been made since last episode aside from showing us how the hosts are treated a bit more. I get it. I just want to see why this is all happening.
But the treatment of the hosts is heartbreaking I tell ya.
That would be a great twist. "No way they planned this!"
More_Badass
Member
Really?
-
We know Lowe has ulterior motives and is secretly interacting with Dolores
We know that "violent delights" is a trigger phrase that affects all updated hosts
And tangentially, we now have another host with budding sentience, who has gotten a deeper glimpse at her makers even more so than the father
We get a better sense of Ford's position and control in the company
We know the actions of the Man in Black are known and sanctioned by the company
How is that no progress?
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Honestly, the folks I watched it with and I had already figured most of that out out from our rewatch of the first episode.
That's why I liked the first episode.The little pieces they left all over the place were enough to put together the picture.
That would be a hell of a twist, but it would also feel somewhat dishonest. If it was a storyline, presenting it internally as PTSD style flashbacks is sort of lying to us as the audience. If he's actually making them suffer PTSD and letting them react accordingly, it might work better as a twist, but then I've lost reason to care about the Hosts if it's just being faked.
Crimson_Gold
Member
everyone likes to kill Cyclops