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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
uncblue said:
EP2
So who do we think the young boy was? Ford as a child? Or maybe a son he lost?
Also, did anyone catch that line Ford said to Lowe..something like I know how your brain works.
Click to expand...

@ first comment:
You know what? That actually sounds really plausible. Interesting.
@ second:
I wouldn't make too much of it.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Dat 2nd episode.

This is one of the most engrossing and intriguing shows I've watched in recent memory.

The scene near the end with Tandie Newton was straight-up horrific. And having android children is supremely fucked up. This world is more messed up than I thought.

The gun Dolores picks up can totally kill people, just you wait and see.

I have to say, this park is incredibly dangerous. I find it hard to believe that they haven't had an "incident" in 30 years.
Knives, bows and arrows... People can easily get killed here...by other people, even by mistake by the androids.
 
B

Belfast

Member
uncblue said:
EP2
So who do we think the young boy was? Ford as a child? Or maybe a son he lost?
Also, did anyone catch that line Ford said to Lowe..something like I know how your brain works.
Click to expand...

If it's modeled after anybody, I'd bet it was Ford's brother. The kid mentioned his brother Tommy. Ford doesn't strike me as particularly narcissistic, so I doubt he'd just create a little version of himself. Dead or long lost family members? Almost certainly.

Also (separate spoiler)
I also believe that Bernard may be a host, as cited earlier in the thread.
 
newtypepilot

newtypepilot

Member
I wonder if there's a running gag where
Teddy gets killed for no real good reason. The Kenny of Westworld lol

I think it's interesting that it's the girl who tells the man in black where to look for the maze. In fact, she sort of warned him about it. Does this mean that every hosts know its existence? Or rather, only older hosts know about it so that's why he only abducts certain hosts?

I wonder if Ford is aware that Lowe has been having secret chats with Dolores. Now that she can "infect" other hosts with the trigger phrase. Who will she target next?
 
M

More_Badass

Member
newtypepilot said:
I wonder if there's a running gag where
Teddy gets killed for no real good reason. The Kenny of Westworld lol

I think it's interesting that it's the girl who tells the man in black where to look for the maze. In fact, she sort of warned him about it. Does this mean that every hosts know its existence? Or rather, only older hosts know about it so that's why he only abducts certain hosts?

I wonder if Ford is aware that Lowe has been having secret chats with Dolores. Now that she can "infect" other hosts with the trigger phrase. Who will she target next?
Click to expand...
Regarding your second point,
I thought it was one of the management handlers using the girl to tell him the next step. Remember how they were thinking of ways to get him to stop or something along those lines? It seemed like either they used the girl to talk to him, or the girl was programmed to do that (like picking the right dialogue choices to progress the story in a video games)
 
J

J_Viper

Member
The two new characters, the loud mouthed friend especially, were horrendous, holy fuck

Still a solid episode though. There's just some really rough acting and dialogue here that I'd expect from CBS, not HBO. The high points of this show are really damn good though.
 
B

Burt

Member
More_Badass said:
Regarding your second point,
I thought it was one of the management handlers using the girl to tell him the next step. Remember how they were thinking of ways to get him to stop or something along those lines? It seemed like either they used the girl to talk to him, or the girl was programmed to do that (like picking the right dialogue choices to progress the story in a video games)
Click to expand...
I feel like the staff have much less oversight/direct imput than you would expect in a place like this.

They don't seem to have "plug in and pull out" audio/visual access to host memories and interactions, and there have been a few instances that have made me wonder how they don't have more detailed information or absolute control -- "What did your father say to you?", how they seemed unaware of the fly triggering the sheriff's bug, how they didn't shut broken homicidal milk maniac down immediately, their opaque knowledge of what's happening inside Thandie Newton, etc. It feels more like they're maintaining balance in an ecosystem than directly managing events. On a general basis, that is, when they don't have to orchestrate a 200 host recall.

Anyway, the privacy stuff makes sense, since I doubt guests would want anyone monitoring them too closely, and it makes me lean away from staff speaking through the girl. They seem to operate more general, "If it ain't broke, don't interfere" policy. The handlers were trying to get the MiB to stop because he was potentially disrupting the narrative via mass slaughter, but I don't think they're aware of the "game" he's playing, which I'd venture to say is against the interests of the park as a whole.

That doesn't explain how the little girl said what she said, but I feel like she's the one who said it. Maybe part of the "deeper level" of the game he keeps talking about is how to work the right hosts in the right way to get them to break character. After all, he knows the sort of horrors these hosts incur on a daily basis without breaking, but he persists. He must be doing something different to believe that he'll get different results, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it.
 
N

Neoweee

Member
Burt said:
I feel like the staff have much less oversight/direct imput than you would expect in a place like this.

They don't seem to have "plug in and pull out" audio/visual access to host memories and interactions, and there have been a few instances that have made me wonder how they don't have more detailed information or absolute control -- "What did your father say to you?", how they seemed unaware of the fly triggering the sheriff's bug, how they didn't shut broken homicidal milk maniac down immediately, their opaque knowledge of what's happening inside Thandie Newton, etc. It feels more like they're maintaining balance in an ecosystem than directly managing events. On a general basis, that is, when they don't have to orchestrate a 200 host recall.

Anyway, the privacy stuff makes sense, since I doubt guests would want anyone monitoring them too closely, and it makes me lean away from staff speaking through the girl. They seem to operate more general, "If it ain't broke, don't interfere" policy. The handlers were trying to get the MiB to stop because he was potentially disrupting the narrative via mass slaughter, but I don't think they're aware of the "game" he's playing, which I'd venture to say is against the interests of the park as a whole.

That doesn't explain how the little girl said what she said, but I feel like she's the one who said it. Maybe part of the "deeper level" of the game he keeps talking about is how to work the right hosts in the right way to get them to break character. After all, he knows the sort of horrors these hosts incur on a daily basis without breaking, but he persists. He must be doing something different to believe that he'll get different results, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it.
Click to expand...

Perfectly fitting avatar. All of Ogre Battle's weird-ass secret shit feels like what WW is referencing with all of this.
 
Vic_Viper

Vic_Viper

Member
So is Ed Harris's character a Host or Guest? He wasnt hurt when he was shot in the first episode so I assume hes a Guest, but if he is why do the people running the park allow him to "look for the end of the game"?

NintendosBooger said:
They can't force viewers to watch this show, and if the ratings slip far enough, HBO WILL cut their losses and kill it.
Click to expand...

wasnt the first episode the most watched season premiere in HBO's history?
 
B

Burt

Member
Neoweee said:
Perfectly fitting avatar. All of Ogre Battle's weird-ass secret shit feels like what WW is referencing with all of this.
Click to expand...

What, you mean you didn't find the 12 ridiculously hidden zodiac stones and secret legendary sword they put in the most inconvenient spot on like the 3rd stage that are allrequired for the best ending in the game but never actually really talked about?
:p

Vic_Viper said:
So is Ed Harris's character a Host or Guest? He wasnt hurt when he was shot in the first episode so I assume hes a Guest, but if he is why do the people running the park allow him to "look for the end of the game"?
Click to expand...

Light EP. 2 spoilers:

I think he and Ford are going to have some serious backstory that gives him even more free reign than most guests.

"If you're going to play God, you have to know the devil."
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Compsiox said:
Is this a joke? I can't see this being nearly as big as Game of Thrones.
Click to expand...

Well they want it to be a successor in terms of it being their next "big" show. They obviously know the chance of it hitting GoT's success is slim to none. But even getting like 60-70 percent of it's viewership down the road would be great.
 
A

Aselith

Member
Burt said:
Light EP. 2 spoilers:

I think he and Ford are going to have some serious backstory that gives him even more free reign than most guests.

"If you're going to play God, you have to know the devil."
Click to expand...

I think
he's just a rich af dude that's been essentially living there so they let him do what he wants. You don't piss off your best customer.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Aselith said:
I think he's just a rich af dude that's been essentially living there so they let him do what he wants. You don't piss off your best customer.
Click to expand...
I think
it's more likely that he or someone he knew/loved was a victim of the critical failure 30 years ago, and he received a huge settlement. The tragedy made him obsessed to discover the secrets and truth of the park. Could be why he's allowed to do whatever he wants
 
G

greatgeek

Banned
What an enthralling show: so far. Hopefully it doesn't go off the rails like Night Of did. Ideally, it won't because the show has a well-conceived story to tell that isn't needlessly stretched out (perhaps for it to replace GoT).
 
newtypepilot

newtypepilot

Member
More_Badass said:
I think
it's more likely that he or someone he knew/loved was a victim of the critical failure 30 years ago, and he received a huge settlement. The tragedy made him obsessed to discover the secrets and truth of the park. Could be why he's allowed to do whatever he wants
Click to expand...

I think he's allowed to do whatever he wants because that's the selling point of the park. "There are no laws" (Well, other than harming another guest). I don't think he's been given special privilege though. If it was another guest, I think park staff would still do nothing.

He's just a guy who's obsessed in finding hidden secrets in the park. He's like that one player in an MMO where he is max-level, has all the equipment, and done all the quests. He's bored so he needs to find all the secrets, or any hidden messages left by the creators. His actions in the shootout shows that he knows how all the hosts will react because he's experienced it dozens or hundreds of times. He knows the bar guy will call for reinforcements. He knows where the guys will be and how they'll try to ambush him. He even knows where the one guy was hiding behind cover.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
More_Badass said:
I think
it's more likely that he or someone he knew/loved was a victim of the critical failure 30 years ago, and he received a huge settlement. The tragedy made him obsessed to discover the secrets and truth of the park. Could be why he's allowed to do whatever he wants
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I like that theory. It seems odd that the managers would be okay with that, knowing full well what his history is.
 
G

golem

Member
Cornballer said:
Ep 2:
I didn't see that coming. I'm very curious how that's going to play out since I thought he was more of a force of nature living outside the constraints of the system from the first episode. But the fact that they're letting him do it, plus there was an actual response regarding the maze is intriguing.
Click to expand...

Im going to laugh if
the man in black just turns out to be the ultimate whale that consumes all dlc to the point that the creative staff hand tailors content for him knowing he'll keep coming back

jett said:
I have to say, this park is incredibly dangerous. I find it hard to believe that they haven't had an "incident" in 30 years.
Knives, bows and arrows... People can easily get killed here...by other people, even by mistake by the androids.
Click to expand...

It seems like theyve mostly cured disease in this future so most wounds probably arent severe enough to be mortal. Even a complete shutdown or loss of brain function may be recoverable within a certain amount of time. I assume the guests have been warned about the consequences of attacking other guests, but mistakes must surely happen.
 
P

Pocks

Member
newtypepilot said:
I think he's allowed to do whatever he wants because that's the selling point of the park. "There are no laws" (Well, other than harming another guest). I don't think he's been given special privilege though. If it was another guest, I think park staff would still do nothing.

He's just a guy who's obsessed in finding hidden secrets in the park. He's like that one player in an MMO where he is max-level, has all the equipment, and done all the quests. He's bored so he needs to find all the secrets, or any hidden messages left by the creators. His actions in the shootout shows that he knows how all the hosts will react because he's experienced it dozens or hundreds of times. He knows the bar guy will call for reinforcements. He knows where the guys will be and how they'll try to ambush him. He even knows where the one guy was hiding behind cover.
Click to expand...

This is essentially the same conclusion I reached. Spot on.
 
D

duckroll

Member
More_Badass said:
I think
it's more likely that he or someone he knew/loved was a victim of the critical failure 30 years ago, and he received a huge settlement. The tragedy made him obsessed to discover the secrets and truth of the park. Could be why he's allowed to do whatever he wants
Click to expand...

I think that would be boring honestly. It's a bit too neat to have motivations tie up like that given the premise of the setting. There's a good chance it's true because that would be the easiest way to write it, but I would prefer if he were just some guy who happened to make it rich very early in his career, and then got bored with the world and obsessed over the possibilities this fake world offers. That would mean that Ford isn't making anything special just for him, but rather that Ford is making something special for people like him, and that he could be -anyone- as long as the customer has the right mindset. In a way, I see him as Ford's perfect customer, the guy who truly understands and appreciates what the creator is doing. That to me would be a better and more powerful story.
 
J

Joni

Member
golem said:
It seems like theyve mostly cured disease in this future so most wounds probably arent severe enough to be mortal. Even a complete shutdown or loss of brain function may be recoverable within a certain amount of time. I assume the guests have been warned about the consequences of attacking other guests, but mistakes must surely happen.
Click to expand...
Thinking about it, it is not murder that will be the problem considering the weapons seem to be special. It is the rape part of rape and pillage. The female hosts are meant to fight back just like normal people, so
if you can't see the difference it could be really dangerous .
But I will assume that element won't be looked at. More the moral implications when the hosts become sentient.
 
Quote

Quote

Member
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the way this show it cut. I don't know how to explain it except it's jarring. I don't feel like I ever have a chance to settle into the scene.

More_Badass said:
Did you watch the second episode?
Click to expand...
This was the worst scene in episode 2. It felt like
"oh, show the audience this answer real fast then go back to him."
But I guess now we know.
 
V

Voras

Member
More_Badass said:
When people say the stakes are low because it's robots on loops, I feel like that they aren't grasping the point of all that. The stakes are there because of the loops. The hosts are basically in an endless sisyphean hell; it won't be pleasant when they realize that.
Click to expand...

But they don't realize that, other than maybe the father? It's not even really made clear that the hosts are in any way self aware either. Obviously they will go down that road at some point in the show because otherwise there would be no point. Sure there are bugs and memories remaining but that doesn't inherently mean sentience, they haven't really given us a reason to care that these robots are trapped in a loop other than the fact that they look human.

For the moment it's just a bunch of robots going through a loop, giving the appearance of emotions. They never die permanently and they never remember, so what are the stakes? If James Marsden's character gets shot or doesn't get shot one time through a loop what does it matter? The Man in Black is a shitty person, obviously, but outside of that watching a bunch of robots kill each other doesn't really accomplish much or mean much.

I'm sure that will change, but it the pilot there weren't much in the way of stakes. My biggest concern with the series going forward is that most of the AI issues they've raised so far are pretty rote Sci-fi tropes, I'm hoping they've got something more interesting planned than what they've shown so far.
 
G

golem

Member
Joni said:
Thinking about it, it is not murder that will be the problem considering the weapons seem to be special. It is the rape part of rape and pillage. The female hosts are meant to fight back just like normal people, so
if you can't see the difference it could be really dangerous .
But I will assume that element won't be looked at. More the moral implications when the hosts become sentient.
Click to expand...

If this goes into multiple seasons i cant see how guest on guest crime won't be broached. At the very least i am going to assume that some guests will take the hosts sides and there will be conflict resulting from that.

It has to be a serious mindfuck for the guests when even
some hosts such as the little boy are programmed to almost act as if they were guests
, I wouldnt be surprised if there werent more out there to blur the lines
 
A

Aselith

Member
Pocks said:
This is essentially the same conclusion I reached. Spot on.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's quite it due to the line
when he told him not to interfere. There was some expectation in the question that they would normally interfere, I'm assuming because the person killing too many of the hosts would thin out the game for the rest of the guests. There was an implication in the answer that this particular guest was uniquely allowed extra leeway in some way.

I feel like if they wanted the implication to be that all is allowed, it would have been more like "of course not" or "you know we don't do that" or whatever.

orthodoxy1095 said:
Regarding the Bernard theory floating around in here.
What's the proof for him being a host?
Click to expand...

I think the only defensible point so far in that show in that regard is that
Ford saying he knows his brain
but I feel that's pretty thin. I think what might be closer to the truth is that he feels
sympathy for the hosts because they are made to live but not allowed to live and maybe he's trying to help them gain autonomy and sentience of their own. I think him trying to kickstart a robot revolution feels more correct to me at least right now.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Aselith said:
I think the only defensible point so far in that show in that regard is that
Ford saying he knows his brain
but I feel that's pretty thin. I think what might be closer to the truth is that he feels
sympathy for the hosts because they are made to live but not allowed to live and maybe he's trying to help them gain autonomy and sentience of their own. I think him trying to kickstart a robot revolution feels more correct to me at least right now.
Click to expand...
Meh, yeah that's weak. Your thoughts are more akin to mine.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
More_Badass said:
Do the ratings matter if they're from Sunday or from streaming/apps? Overall they're going to include all views from all sources.
Click to expand...
Total views is ultimately what matters for HBO.
biosnake20 said:
Well they want it to be a successor in terms of it being their next "big" show. They obviously know the chance of it hitting GoT's success is slim to none. But even getting like 60-70 percent of it's viewership down the road would be great.
Click to expand...
Yeah, let's not get ahead of ourselves. HBO is betting and hoping big for this show, but GoT is commercially their most successful show ever by a long shot.

-------------

Ep 2 was really intriguing, can't wait to see more.
 
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