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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
ClosingADoor
Member
With shows like this I actually kind of like the waiting period. It gives some time to think about it, have discussions and something to look forward to. A mystery format like this is less engaging when the whole thing is there to see in one weekend.
More_Badass
Member
Go watch the overzealous E3 announcements of a new CoD or Far Cry or whatnot
And then (Ep2)
watch his announcement of the amazing new scripted narrative
Simo
Member
lol Exactly. That scene and the conversation about the board wanting a new storyline and
not being happy, what they're promised
I'm just loving this show though. It's very rare that I'll go back and rewatch episodes so soon even for shows I love but I had to watch both episodes again last night. I have to say though that watching them is a bit of joy and a downer because every time they're over I always feel like playing a new Red Dead....
He was great in Boardwalk Empire too.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Just watched ep 2, 10/10. Somehow better than episode 1. What an incredibly fascinating show, you only get a few of these shows per couple of years.
I have to feel really bad for Teddy. He got called a loser in episode 1 by the man in black who seems to know everything, and I guess he wasn't just talking about that instance.
Put some RESPEKK on Teddy Nolan. Put some respekk on it. I have a feeling he's going to get some comeuppance finally by the end of the season but he will sacrifice himself anyways and completely dead during the finale. That's my prediction. Damn I feel for the dude.
Funny that 2/3 main characters in episode 1 barely had any role in episode 2.
I have to feel really bad for Teddy. He got called a loser in episode 1 by the man in black who seems to know everything, and I guess he wasn't just talking about that instance.
Like others said, he's played this many times. Teddy is supposed to be the guy getting fucked over. He died twice, badly in episode 1. What does episode 2 show? Him getting fucked up once more, on top of a human being foreshadowed to steal his girl by the end of the episode.
Put some RESPEKK on Teddy Nolan. Put some respekk on it. I have a feeling he's going to get some comeuppance finally by the end of the season but he will sacrifice himself anyways and completely dead during the finale. That's my prediction. Damn I feel for the dude.
Funny that 2/3 main characters in episode 1 barely had any role in episode 2.
brianjones
Member
just watched the pilot.. it was okay, didn't blow me away
felt like i might have been more interested if i didn't watch the movie a couple weeks ago
ed harris is no yul brynner
felt like i might have been more interested if i didn't watch the movie a couple weeks ago
ed harris is no yul brynner
More_Badass
Member
He's not trying to be. They're completely different characters
MassiveNights
Banned
Episode 2 is a total headfuck. I'm not really sure what's going on but they've given me enough to make it feel like I kind of grasp it. Great writing.
They think they are. And that's probably one of the keys to the show. If they think they are feeling pain, isn't that fucked up enough?
On ep 2
it is revealed they have nightmares and shit. But also that they can turn instant cold and robotic like that little girl did
huh? they basically get murdered and raped on a daily basis. Are you a Trump supporter by any chance? Just sayin. Kind of the basis of the show is that these robots are experiencing human emotions in a startlingly realistic way.
Maybe it's fucked up if they are conscious of what's going on
which seems to be slowly happening
Episode 2 random speculation
Edit: Probably not, just a random wild thought.
I wonder if the show might be playing with time a bit. Like the two new guests this episode, we don't see them interact with anything one way or another that puts them in the present time. We see Jimmi Simpson meet Delores at the end, but that's about it. The hosts are ageless. I'm wondering if we might be seeing a flashback episode and not even realize it. Maybe we're seeing the incident 30 years ago at the same time? The characters do seem clearly based on the movie leads, one who was a repeat visitor, the other a reluctant first timer.
Edit: Probably not, just a random wild thought.
I can see the human emotions slowly taking place. As far as being raped, they aren't human. How do you rape an electronic appliance? They would have no reason to feel this is a violation of anything.
Dreams-Visions
Member
This show is really interesting. Production values on the level of what I expect of HBO and the concept is really cool, particularly for the clients. I really want to see where they go with all of this.
But I'm not ready to call it *good* yet. Need to see a few more episodes to see where this plot goes.
Thandie stays flawless.
But I'm not ready to call it *good* yet. Need to see a few more episodes to see where this plot goes.
Thandie stays flawless.
Cloud Strife
Member
Hmm, very interesting. Could be mindblowing if done right.
MassiveNights
Banned
My main questions about the show right now are about how the mechanics of the world work. How long do the guests stay? Do the hosts just snap back into the same routine every day? Wouldn't that be a bit shit for the guests? How do they complete storylines? How does the separation of the world and Westworld work? etc.
i think it is the fact they are simulated to actively resist rape. They clearly dont like it, even if they are machines. They are programmed in way to establish the act as in fact, rape. They apparently remember this.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Let's get in on this, now that I've watched episode 2 as well. I should say that I'm way too familiar with the various topics (for one, I've been working on a similar story, though thankfully different), so the following spoiler-speculation might ruin the entire show for you. Consider yourself warned.
On the location:
That seems to be entirely where the show is going. Either Ford is greatest cop-out character ever, or between his relation to the boy-droid and his dialogue on boredom, his remark on Shakespeare in episode 1, and his 'long planned storyline', he's essentially trying to re-introduce realism (the philosophical term) into this world so that choices -in some neuroscience views, a brain exists solely to make choices, even if they don't really make sense or are 'choices' in how we like to think of them as driven by volition- are not just made in a moral void with no real meaning, but where choices have weight.
It's an old topic in philosophy / theology, with variants of it being Plato's Gyges ring of invisibility (while wearing this ring, you can do anything you want and get away with it: would you? Should you? Could you?) and the slogan of Assassin's Creed: "nothing is real and everything is permitted". A gaffer, in an older philosophy topic by Opiate put it as following: "you cannot have morals without realism". What that means is that before you can talk about the emergent property of morality, you can need to have concepts that are defined as real, weighted, substances and that there are relations between those concepts where interactions can be said and felt to be 'moral'. If you didn't feel anything, either because you're a psychopath or you are in a place where nothing is real by default, like a video game, you would no reason to behave in a moral manner at all.
And, like with a video game, you would also be bored as shit once you realize that. Once everything is fake, nothing matters anymore, and even random 'choices' become meaningless, random, exercises in nothingness (how about a rousing bout of nihilism, eh?). A game that can play itself without any real help for a conscious being is just not fun to play. Both Hopkins (Ford) and Ed Harris's character even spell this out directly: "you're the most real during severe emotions" and Ford saying "everything is magic, except for the magician", meaning they're both bored with the game as is, both at different angles of how to proceed with that. Ford is the designer of the whole place and understands its intricacies, the game holds no further mystery for him until the game itself changes. MiB / Harris is a guest who's played too much and also knows the game, but believes there are deeper levels yet untapped that he might still uncover. Really no different from the average gamer and designer relation, in that sense.
Ford's rejection of 'the boy', who is either a reproduction of himself or a sibling ("my dad too", same clothing, similar voice pattern), is meaningful in that regard. Instead of trying to satisfy himself by creating reproductions of things -people- he knows, he seems to want to create something 'new', that is, new people that are not simply reproductions.
See his line about what the bored mind can conceive.
And what is acting and fiction if not another magic circle wherein we want to believe that something is real that isn't, for awhile? So that, and the idea of the perverted viewer (or other guests, as shown) being in on the carnage, is absolutely happening. That is: Ford's newer story being the return of morals (realism) where things can be unexpected and weighty / real. Whether that's just his hubris, boredom, or other motivation, remains to be seen. But in my limited experience with Shakespeare, revenge is a common motivation in his work. So is fear of rejection though (Othello).
Btw, the bit with the snake was a reference to the original movie where a snake biting a guest is one of the first signs of errors in the robots. And like a magician requiring no curtain, Ford could control it without any effort, and then rejects the boy by sending him off.
Additionally, the need for real sex, even with no talking, and the narrative guy throwing a tantrum tie into the "more real when emotional" theme. It's how the show is showing them to be (presumably) real. Notice that the kid complete dropped the act when Harris forced it to.
I love the presentation of this show, but for me that's fairly obvious in terms of where these characters and story in general will go for that bit (and it's a similar theme as Nolan's Prestige: what happens when the magician gets bored? ). What happens after that is anyone's guess, but that's another season, I would say. Also if I'm wrong then I have no fucking idea where it would go since this theme is ancient, satisfying, and proven in the field. Anyone familiar with the story of the Rabbi and the golem? Same thing. Particularly the sex part, actually.
It's an old topic in philosophy / theology, with variants of it being Plato's Gyges ring of invisibility (while wearing this ring, you can do anything you want and get away with it: would you? Should you? Could you?) and the slogan of Assassin's Creed: "nothing is real and everything is permitted". A gaffer, in an older philosophy topic by Opiate put it as following: "you cannot have morals without realism". What that means is that before you can talk about the emergent property of morality, you can need to have concepts that are defined as real, weighted, substances and that there are relations between those concepts where interactions can be said and felt to be 'moral'. If you didn't feel anything, either because you're a psychopath or you are in a place where nothing is real by default, like a video game, you would no reason to behave in a moral manner at all.
And, like with a video game, you would also be bored as shit once you realize that. Once everything is fake, nothing matters anymore, and even random 'choices' become meaningless, random, exercises in nothingness (how about a rousing bout of nihilism, eh?). A game that can play itself without any real help for a conscious being is just not fun to play. Both Hopkins (Ford) and Ed Harris's character even spell this out directly: "you're the most real during severe emotions" and Ford saying "everything is magic, except for the magician", meaning they're both bored with the game as is, both at different angles of how to proceed with that. Ford is the designer of the whole place and understands its intricacies, the game holds no further mystery for him until the game itself changes. MiB / Harris is a guest who's played too much and also knows the game, but believes there are deeper levels yet untapped that he might still uncover. Really no different from the average gamer and designer relation, in that sense.
Ford's rejection of 'the boy', who is either a reproduction of himself or a sibling ("my dad too", same clothing, similar voice pattern), is meaningful in that regard. Instead of trying to satisfy himself by creating reproductions of things -people- he knows, he seems to want to create something 'new', that is, new people that are not simply reproductions.
See his line about what the bored mind can conceive.
And what is acting and fiction if not another magic circle wherein we want to believe that something is real that isn't, for awhile? So that, and the idea of the perverted viewer (or other guests, as shown) being in on the carnage, is absolutely happening. That is: Ford's newer story being the return of morals (realism) where things can be unexpected and weighty / real. Whether that's just his hubris, boredom, or other motivation, remains to be seen. But in my limited experience with Shakespeare, revenge is a common motivation in his work. So is fear of rejection though (Othello).
Btw, the bit with the snake was a reference to the original movie where a snake biting a guest is one of the first signs of errors in the robots. And like a magician requiring no curtain, Ford could control it without any effort, and then rejects the boy by sending him off.
Additionally, the need for real sex, even with no talking, and the narrative guy throwing a tantrum tie into the "more real when emotional" theme. It's how the show is showing them to be (presumably) real. Notice that the kid complete dropped the act when Harris forced it to.
I love the presentation of this show, but for me that's fairly obvious in terms of where these characters and story in general will go for that bit (and it's a similar theme as Nolan's Prestige: what happens when the magician gets bored? ). What happens after that is anyone's guess, but that's another season, I would say. Also if I'm wrong then I have no fucking idea where it would go since this theme is ancient, satisfying, and proven in the field. Anyone familiar with the story of the Rabbi and the golem? Same thing. Particularly the sex part, actually.
On the location:
maybe it's just me, but the sound suggested that the doors opened into a vacuum or lesser air, even if the escaped host was unaware of that (they probably don't actually breathe). Combined with the unpredictable lighting / power and many levels on an otherwise terraformed space, but seemingly real rock around them, I'm going to say it's an asteroid facility. Mars would be too dangerous, Earth wouldn't allow for it due to risk of unexpected events (like the weather, earthquakes, animals creeping in, etc), asteroids are many and nobody cares about them. Also helps to explain the 2001 'look' in the pilot a bit. Might also tie into 'management' since technology that advanced is yet to be discovered in our time, but robots we can do. Though obviously all the flesh stuff we cannot (yet). Maybe the incident was on Earth, then moved? Does get you into trouble on that '30 years' period, as I've explained before, but that's okay.
Speaking of which, still presuming the hosts don't have any bodily functions of their own: must be nice to recycle all that cum back into the food supply. Come to Westworld, drink someone's recycled piss and cum! *spit take*
Speaking of which, still presuming the hosts don't have any bodily functions of their own: must be nice to recycle all that cum back into the food supply. Come to Westworld, drink someone's recycled piss and cum! *spit take*
we are rewarded with political inferno, i guess that is enough
Loving this show. It's my jam 100%.
I think what I like the most about it is the narrative/ internal consistency in the world. The show is also really well balanced and I feel satisfied after watching an episode which doesn't really happen too often. Hoping the rest of the season is as strong as the first two episodes.
I think what I like the most about it is the narrative/ internal consistency in the world. The show is also really well balanced and I feel satisfied after watching an episode which doesn't really happen too often. Hoping the rest of the season is as strong as the first two episodes.
The white and black hat choosing was a symbol for choosing to be the bad or the good guy.
Dolores means "pains" in Spanish.
Also, I like how the man in black is basically this guy, slight spoilers
http://i.imgur.com/helTsN2.jpg
Dolores means "pains" in Spanish.
Also, I like how the man in black is basically this guy, slight spoilers
http://i.imgur.com/helTsN2.jpg
Rastafarian42
Member
Lmao at the picture
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Watched an episode eariler today. Don't know which. But it was pretty good.
By the by, Syfy channel is showing the original West World now.
By the by, Syfy channel is showing the original West World now.
Freezasaurus
Member
Caught episode 2 tonight. Loving this show so far. Probably the HBO series I've been most excited about since Game of Thrones started.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I'm not currently rooting for the Hosts because I'm not yet certain that any of this isn't planned and deliberate as part of their programming. Someone else floated the idea that an AI uprising is just a super elaborate storyline, and it's certainly possible.
So far, I'm rooting for the Man in Black, and maybe Ford, because I think their goals are more aligned than we realize.
i thought about that but don't they show the new dad instead of the old one? Otherwise I was thinking the repeat visitor is young ed Harris and the other guy will die.
Maybe they loop until someone picks their story.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I am waiting for the episode where he is freindzoned by a robot. The ultimate ether.
Quote
Member
If the show is doing it right, this feeling should change.
MrCunningham
Member
Yeah, they knock that over the viewers head a few times. The guy in the white hat shows courtesy to the hosts while the guy in the black hat has no respect for them. They take on very opposite roles.
Anthony Hopkins role is interesting, as it shows that he was the creator of the WestWorld Theme Park. When he walks through the park, the kid he meets shares the same childhood memories as he does. He can control a snake by looking at it. I'm guessing that he synthetic creatures all recognize him through some sort of facial recognition, and he can control them like an admin. Also, the park is 30 years old, and it shows that he wants to keep it running for as log as possible.
Overall, I find the show to be interesting.
I really don't see how anyone can't feel sympathy for them after seeing all the shit they do to them.
Quote
Member
Isn't that the question though? What makes us different from machines right now. Would you feel bad if you killed a robot that attaches doors to cars? No? What if that machine could talk? No? What if the machine had a face? Not yet? What if the machine had memories? Getting there? What if the machine had free will and made all its own decisions? Okay, Yes? Is it a robot anymore?
For me, Westworld starts right before that drawn line and we're on a path to cross it.
ClosingADoor
Member
Delores certainly views it that way when the man in black came by.
The whole thing really has me thinking about how slavery and such must have been. Seeing the other as non human, doing what you please with them without any empathy at all, because they are your property.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I just watched the first 2 episodes back to back and this show is really really cool and interesting. It feels like the proper spiritual successor of some of the themes Nolan was exploring in Person of interesT when it comes to what makes something alive?
I also have to say I love the piano music playing bit and I hope they keep it going all season. It fist started in the pilot when I noticed it was playing Blackhole Sun by Soundgarden. And then when Ep 2's song played I was all in. Now when that piano plays it's all I focus on. What song will they pick for this episode
I also have to say I love the piano music playing bit and I hope they keep it going all season. It fist started in the pilot when I noticed it was playing Blackhole Sun by Soundgarden. And then when Ep 2's song played I was all in. Now when that piano plays it's all I focus on. What song will they pick for this episode
I think this show might be over your head.
The whole point is their emerging consciousness and sentience.
Rapeing sentient beings is absolutely wrong, regardless if they are human or not.
I just love how well they've managed to mix sci-fi & western in one show. It's not very often we get quality shows of either genre, much less both at once. The scene in ep 2
was a perfect example of this. The atmosphere is spot-on.
where Jimmi Simpson leaves the dressing room and enters the train
So after only two episodes I absolutely love this show.
Does anyone else feel like Westworld fills the void left by LOST in terms of the spectacle of it all? The mystery, the storytelling style, there's something about it that evokes the feelings I got while watching LOST unfold season after season.
Yes I know JJ is involved with this show, but I'm not drawing the paralell because of him, theres something very reminiscent of the quality level of the show and how it's all playing out.
As someone said above, the host memories are very similar to flash sideways or flash backs, and could open up a very interesting narrative device between seasons.
Does anyone else feel like Westworld fills the void left by LOST in terms of the spectacle of it all? The mystery, the storytelling style, there's something about it that evokes the feelings I got while watching LOST unfold season after season.
Yes I know JJ is involved with this show, but I'm not drawing the paralell because of him, theres something very reminiscent of the quality level of the show and how it's all playing out.
As someone said above, the host memories are very similar to flash sideways or flash backs, and could open up a very interesting narrative device between seasons.
It's not a direct remake of the movie, so nothing is 1:1