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[TTG]

I missed the maze this week. It felt like the overarching story didn't move forward and there were no new layers to the mystery. In other words, obfuscating without substance feels flat. Individual stories carried the episode and the wood cutter at the end was genuinely creepy.

Small aside, but this show does close ups very, very well. Our Shakespeare reciting dad from the first episode obviously, but watching Dolores transition from mode to mode and just carry on conversation has been great. Ford is fantastic as well(obviously). I was watching The Revenant a couple of weeks back and Dicaprio yelling, spitting, and suffering at the camera had me eye rolling a half hour in. It's remarkable how much of these shots they use without it feeling over the top.

Some random observations/questions:

- I wasn't team flashback because it would mean the prostitute and Dolores had to have been in the same loop for decades, but it was a little sad to see a novel idea get debunked. At least we still don't know if the man in black scalped her in the barn.

- Almost my first thought on seeing William being all scrupulous was wondering if he was going to be the first guest to die on screen. It's still heading in that direction.

- It looked like Wyett's men didn't give a shit when Teddy shot them. Could this be part of the new narrative Ford is building? Hosts that can't be killed by other hosts.

- What happened to the gun Dolores dug up? She picks it up from the drawer and is startled, but I don't think she ever puts it away? The next shot has her folding a blouse, maybe I just missed it.

- Ford is sharper than I thought. That show he put on for Bernard with the scalpel was devious. I had him as a borderline cook, operating in the macro. Besides that, we are now nearing a half dozen people surreptitiously fucking with the hosts, that's a lot.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Bernard existing alongside Old Ford and being the one who's helping Dolores break free, which enabled her to recognize the situation, run away and cross paths with William in a disheveled state, seems to indicate that William is in Old Ford Present Timeline.

Dolores stumbling into camp could be a completely unrelated flashback and separate from the memory bleed/escape that happened tonight, or Bernard could be a host and his conversations with Dolores are from 30 years ago, but both of those things are incredibly cheap moves.

I guess the memory bleed/escape tonight could also have just been part of the incident 30 years ago and Bernard will be shown to be repeating the mistakes of the past, but Teddy wasn't there because of the new storyline, and now we're getting into "every scene's time period is up in the air to make it fit the internet theory based off a logo". It'd just be way too convoluted or way too cheap to have William be a flashback at this point, and we're only 3 episodes deep.

More then likely the logo is a continuity error from the pilot to episode 2, they probably changed the logo afterwords and thought no one would notice lol.

 

[Chase17]

40k a day is a lot.

Although maybe there has been a lot of inflation leading up to whatever year this is.

 

[Makai]

More then likely the logo is a continuity error from the pilot to episode 2, they probably changed the logo afterwords and thought no one would notice lol.

Oh nooooo, that makes sense. Naw, both logos are in the same episode.

 

[More_Badass]

More then likely the logo is a continuity error from the pilot to episode 2, they probably changed the logo afterwords and thought no one would notice lol.

They linger on the shot for like 3 seconds. That's a purposeful decision, not some continuity gaff

 

[Makai]

Somebody needs to explain the different robot tech before I give up on logo theory.

 

[Calm Mind]

I was not expecting ninjas.

 

[Burt]

Somebody needs to explain the different robot tech before I give up on logo theory.

That was an explicit flashback while Ford was talking about his old partner and the origins of the park, hence the young Anthony Hopkins. If there was a logo in there that matched the William theory instead of the modern one, that'd be interesting.

 

[TTG]

Another stupid thing: I thought the hostess who shows William around pre-entry looked a hell of a lot like the woman who walked in front of the camera in the robot dancing scene that played when Ford was talking about early days with Arnold.

 

[wesleyshark]

I think this is all the evidence so far

- The logo when William arrives is different from the shows/park's main logo, and matches the logo in the old cold storage logo
- We see similarly shot scenes of William and the MiB tipping his hat at Dolores and picking up something for her
- The story in the Sweetwater when William arrives is different.
- The MiB says he was born in the park (as in a philosophical/spiritual scene); in the same episode, William's friend says you find out who you really are in the park
- The MiB tells Dolores that they need to start from the beginning, and the show cuts to William

Edit: Also, the gunshot at William seems way more powerful/painful than the ones when Teddy shot at the MiB. And I don't think William was role-playing enough at that point to just play along. Not sure if that means anything

I like this idea. Very interesting

 

[bounchfx]

great episode. show keeps delivering imo.

There's a lot in the park that's clearly from a different time.

shit this is rad. I love how they keep drip feeding it in and hinting at it

 

[The Llama]

I think this is all the evidence so far

- The logo when William arrives is different from the shows/park's main logo, and matches the logo in the old cold storage logo
- We see similarly shot scenes of William and the MiB tipping his hat at Dolores and picking up something for her
- The story in the Sweetwater when William arrives is different.
- The MiB says he was born in the park (as in a philosophical/spiritual scene); in the same episode, William's friend says you find out who you really are in the park
- The MiB tells Dolores that they need to start from the beginning, and the show cuts to William

Edit: Also, the gunshot at William seems way more powerful/painful than the ones when Teddy shot at the MiB. And I don't think William was role-playing enough at that point to just play along. Not sure if that means anything

Tbh after reading it all laid out like this, I'd be surprised if the show doesn't go in this direction (or something very similar).

 

[Frustrated_me]

40k a day is a lot.

Although maybe there has been a lot of inflation leading up to whatever year this is.

Good catch.

Although I'm not sure what the current year is so as to find out which year they were paying 40k/day.

 

[Makai]

40k a day is a lot.

Although maybe there has been a lot of inflation leading up to whatever year this is.

It's $1k a day in the 1970s movie.

 

[MoeDabs]

Rewatching because I have a problem, but I think Ford was talking about himself when talking about Arnold. Maybe Arnold took the fall for Ford and whatever happened 30 years ago. Ford making a show with the host and the employee in front of Bernard would make more sense if he was setting Bernard up for something similar. It is obvious he is playing Bernard hard though, and Bernard is falling for every bit.

 

[-griffy-]

Rewatching because I have a problem, but I think Ford was talking about himself when talking about Arnold. Maybe Arnold took the fall for Ford and whatever happened 30 years ago. Ford making a show with the host and the employee in front of Bernard would make more sense if he was setting Bernard up for something similar. It is obvious he is playing Bernard hard though, and Bernard is falling for every bit.

Perhaps the "accident" 30 years ago that led to Arnold's death was actually Ford pushing Arnold off a cliff to his death, or something similar, because Arnold was getting in the way of whatever Ford was trying to do.

 

[Makai]

William looks like everybody. Here he is as a young Ford.

 

[RustyNails]

Edit: Wrong thread lol

 

[wesleyshark]

New episode today, Rockstar likely teasing Red Dead...what a day for Western fans

A supremely great day for us indeed

 

[ZOONAMI]

I think this is all the evidence so far

- The logo when William arrives is different from the shows/park's main logo, and matches the logo in the old cold storage
- We see similarly shot scenes of William and the MiB tipping his hat at Dolores and picking up something for her
- The story in the Sweetwater when William arrives is different.
- The MiB says he was born in the park (as in a philosophical/spiritual sense); in the same episode, William's friend says you find out who you really are in the park
- The MiB tells Dolores that they need to start from the beginning, and the show cuts to William

Edit: Also, the gunshot at William seems way more powerful/painful than the ones when Teddy shot at the MiB. And I don't think William was role-playing enough at that point to just play along. Not sure if that means anything

No, Delores stumbling into to Williams camp debunks all of this, unless they go the super cheap route of oh that was just another time Delores was acting all wonky. Yeah I don't think so.

They are in the same timeline as Bernard and mib.

I have no idea why people are grasping at this flashback theory based on 2 logos. Its not that crazy for them to keep some old logos arround. All of your other observations are just transitons and parallels, not trying to point to some hidden timeline twist, and there are differerent plotlines and loops and hooks for guests. It can't just be the exact same fucking day everyday or people would get bored as fuck.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Oh nooooo, that makes sense. Naw, both logos are in the same episode.

Ok a continuity error in the same episode. Or the company just uses different logos in different places, we have only seen the lobby once. I think it's a total red herring to create wild fan theories.

In fact if you look at the thumbnail for ep2 on HBO go you can clearly see a shelf behind William that looks exactly like the "new" logo.

Sorry for the shit quality but is that enough to end this madness?

 

[More_Badass]

No, Delores stumbling into to Williams camp debunks all of this, unless they go the super cheap route of oh that was just another time Delores was acting all wonky. Yeah I don't think so.

Well, yeah, there probably was. The last critical failure

Edit:

Ok a continuity error in the same episode. Or the company just uses different logos in different places, we have only seen the lobby once. I think it's a total red herring to create wild fan theories.

In fact if you look at the thumbnail for ep2 on HBO go you can clearly see a shelf behind William that looks exactly like the "new" logo.

Damn...

 

[ZOONAMI]

Well, yeah, there probably was. The last critical failure

Edit:

Damn...

Yeah there ya go. And as to before your edit I highly doubt if Delores was involved in the last critical failure she would still be around. And either way it would be cheap to build up Delores figuring all this out with Bernard and then go no that scene with her at the campsite has nothing to do with anything else that happened in the episode. It's like a twist that would just be like ok... That's the twist? Why?

 

[Makai]

Ok a continuity error in the same episode. Or the company just uses different logos in different places, we have only seen the lobby once. I think it's a total red herring to create wild fan theories.

In fact if you look at the thumbnail for ep2 on HBO go you can clearly see a shelf behind William that looks exactly like the "new" logo.

In the actual episode, it's \ V

More red herrings. I'm not crazy. :u

 

[golem]

Starting to get the sense that Ford and Bernard are working towards the same ends using different methods (and trying their hardest not to let anyone, even each other, know). Ford blaming Arnold for the pursuit of consciousness and rewriting history after Arnold died to lay the blame at his feet would fit into that. He had take steps to maintain control of the park presumably after the incident and corporate takeover.

 

[Owari]

Anyone know when this will be uploaded to HBO go?

 

[golem]

Anyone know when this will be uploaded to HBO go?

I just watched it on Go..

 

[MoeDabs]

No, Delores stumbling into to Williams camp debunks all of this, unless they go the super cheap route of oh that was just another time Delores was acting all wonky. Yeah I don't think so.

They are in the same timeline as Bernard and mib.

I have no idea why people are grasping at this flashback theory based on 2 logos. Its not that crazy for them to keep some old logos arround. All of your other observations are just transitons and parallels, not trying to point to some hidden timeline twist, and there are differerent plotlines and loops and hooks for guests. It can't just be the exact same fucking day everyday or people would get bored as fuck.

Considering she was just shown thinking she was shot but really wasn't, it's not a huge leap to think this was another memory. The fact that they went and changed a logo in post should at least raise questions about its importance. It's just speculation but there is reason for it.

 

[Da-Kid]

Anyone know when this will be uploaded to HBO go?

I think after 12am PST.

 

[More_Badass]

In the actual episode, it's \ V

More red herrings. I'm not crazy. :u

Damn...

You're right. So they also filmed a scene with the regular logo, but used the scene with the logo in the actual episode (or changed it with CGI for the episode). That seems deliberate, and not some continuity thing. Or else they would have just used the scene where the thumbnail comes from

 

[TTG]

Well, yeah, there probably was. The last critical failure

That sequence is way too leading, she's wearing the same dress for chrissakes. Not to mention that William has interacted with the prostitute and Dolores, both in their "present day" roles, meaning they have been in the same loop for decades. I think it's time to let this one go. What actually transpires in the barn between Dolores and the man in black is more interesting. That and what voice she hears when she shoots the bandit. Is that Arnold's idea at work?

Considering she was just shown thinking she was shot but really wasn't, it's not a huge leap to think this was another memory. The fact that they went and changed a logo in post should at least raise questions about its importance. It's just speculation but there is reason for it.

That was a quick cut to show Dolores having an Edge of Tomorrow/Groundhog day moment. What follows is an entire scene that would have been her memory, unlikely.

 

[Epcott]

I was all for the "William is MIB flashback" theory until Deloris

Spoiler

rode into said flashback and collapsed into Will's arms

. I don't know wtf is going on any more except the older hosts in the flashback glimpses reminded me of

Spoiler

the film's hosts.

.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

That sequence is way too leading, she's wearing the same dress for chrissakes. Not to mention that William has interacted with the prostitute and Dolores, both in their "present day" roles, meaning they have been in the same loop for decades. I think it's time to let this one go. What actually transpires in the barn between Dolores and the man in black is more interesting. That and what voice she hears when she shoots the bandit. Is that Arnold's idea at work?

Yep. They keep talking about the hosts previous roles, and the memories and grudges from those roles. Doesn't make sense that Delores and the prostitute would have the same exact roles for decades, right down to the can falling out of the bag.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The scenes with William are in the past, and leading to the critical failure that happened 30 years ago. He's the Man in Black, and we're seeing his origin story so to speak

Very interesting, I'm surprised that this show is getting interesting to me. I want to know the old guys plans.

Yep. They keep talking about the hosts previous roles, and the memories and grudges from those roles. Doesn't make sense that Delores and the prostitute would have the same exact roles for decades, right down to the can falling out of the bag.

Gah true, I thought about the prostitutes but figured the one in green may have always been in that role and I didn't know if he crossed the red one yet. He had to have in episode 2 though.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Damn...

You're right. So they also filmed a scene with the regular logo, but used the scene with the logo in the actual episode (or changed it with CGI for the episode). That seems deliberate, and not some continuity thing. Or else they would have just used the scene where the thumbnail comes from

Or, they filmed a scene without really thinking anyone would care that there are different logos and then edited the new logo onto the thumbnail because that's the logo they are using for marketing the show in the real world.

 

[Makai]

That sequence is way too leading, she's wearing the same dress for chrissakes. Not to mention that William has interacted with the prostitute and Dolores, both in their "present day" roles, meaning they have been in the same loop for decades. I think it's time to let this one go. What actually transpires in the barn between Dolores and the man in black is more interesting. That and what voice she hears when she shoots the bandit. Is that Arnold's idea at work?

...uh yeah! They have been in the same role for decades. And some characters have not. Doloros, Teddy, and the prostitutes are fan favorites who have stuck around.

 

[More_Badass]

Or, they filmed a scene without really thinking anyone would care that there are different logos and then edited the new logo onto the thumbnail because that's the logo they are using for marketing the show in the real world.

This is a Jonathan Nolan show, produced by JJ Abrams

 

[Serpico99]

Think we are still having PTSD from Mr. Robot with all these far reaching theories. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one...

 

[ZOONAMI]

This is a Jonathan Nolan show, produced by JJ Abrams

That doesn't mean it has to have a dumb timeline twist.

It's either a red herring, a production gaf, or they they just like the idea of having old and/or more than one logo around in the park. Doest mean william is in an alt timeline.

It's possible but it seems extremely unlikely at this point.

 

[LostMyNarbles]

I know Makai already touched on it, but here's the image of the logo in William's supposed timeline. I think they just screwed up with the thumbnail of the episode since this one is like the old logo.

 

[Makai]

Arnold's lab coat logo

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Think we are still having PTSD from Mr. Robot with all these far reaching theories. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one...

Hahaha, this is what I was reminded of when I read the William theory.

 

[More_Badass]

That doesn't mean it has to have a dumb timeline twist.

No, but it does mean that plot stuff and hints is likely very calculated and crafted deliberately and not just glaring continuity mistakes that are lingered on for seconds as if to imply importance. Especially when they could easily replace the logo with CGI instead of just leaving it in the show

Arnold's lab coat logo

See? Deliberate and subtle

 

[Gleethor]

This show strikes me as being very deliberate with what it chooses to show and with what it chooses not to show. I would be very surprised to find out that the logo discrepancies are a mistake.

 

[PaulKersey]

For some reason I hated that they didn't get the shooting right... When

Spoiler

Dolores

shoots the gun the hammer was never pulled back and that was definitely a single action revolver, but a double action. It just annoyed me for some reason.

 

[TTG]

...uh yeah! They have been in the same role for decades. And some characters have not. Doloros, Teddy, and the prostitutes are fan favorites who have stuck around.

Now you're picking who has been moved around and who hasn't to fit your thing. My impression is they're all refreshed once in a while, like the head madame at the saloon previously having a daughter.

 

[Flo_Evans]

That doesn't mean it has to have a dumb timeline twist.

Right it would be a cool theory if it explained anything or made sense but if it's actually true it takes the show down a notch IMHO. Who even gives a shit about the man in black to need his origin story???

His character is already established, as is Williams and they are polar opposites.


It's about ford, Bernard and the Dolores. I think some people want him to be a bigger character because he is cool but I really don't care about who he is? His only purpose so far is to introduce the maze, which is a thing Bernard or ford setup for obviously not him. Unless he turns out to be an ai that thinks he's a guest, and not William.

 

[ZOONAMI]

No, but it does mean that plot stuff and hints is likely very calculated and crafted deliberately and not just glaring continuity mistakes that are lingered on for seconds as if to imply importance. Especially when they could easily replace the logo with CGI instead of just leaving it in the show


See? Deliberate and subtle

But why is it impossible for an old logo to be in the physical setting of the current timeline? It's not a production mistake.

That's what I don't understand. It's literally grasping at nothing.

That or its an intentional red herring to fuel meaningless speculation.

Or there is an alt timeline but with the end of this episode I highly doubt it, and I agree with above post wouldn't really accomplish anything to drive the plot forward.

 

[kai3345]

Arnold's lab coat logo

yeah, even if William isn't MiB, at the very least his stuff takes place in the past.

 

[ZOONAMI]

yeah, even if William isn't MiB, at the very least his stuff takes place in the past.

Or not.