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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Ok, theoretically. I'm betting mib and william meet up in ep 4.
Charles Brandon
Member
I'll take that bet.
Cornballer
Member
Same day HBO cable ratings were up this week. More than week 1 and week 2. HBO will be more interested in the cumulative numbers, but this is a good sign. There's also been a fair amount of large counterprogramming (debates, baseball playoffs) up against the show on Sunday nights. Anecdotally, I get the feeling that there's a small, vocal audience that's very interested in Westworld rather than it picking up broad-based viewership thus far, but I don't really have much to back that up.
- NY Mag: Why Westworld Uses a Player Piano
- Thrillist: Making Sense of the Confusing Westworld Timeline
- NY Mag: Why Westworld Uses a Player Piano
- Thrillist: Making Sense of the Confusing Westworld Timeline
They do, per an interview that's probably buried in one of these Cornballer posts. They've already talked about (decided?) how the series ends, and I'm assuming they have at least the overall arcs of the seasons between now and then plotted out so they have a rough idea of how to get there.
I don't think they will have a full on show down or anything yet, but william will see mib talking to Delores from a distance or something like that and go hmmmm.
They pretty clearly set him up as the protagonist white hat vs antagonist black hat mib. Mib will become more of an anti-hero though. I think he is trying to help liberate the hosts beyond just the deeper game of the maze, but his methods are somewhat gruesome. It will be like, william, you misunderstood completely what I'm trying to do, you don't need to fight me.
The maze may have actually been put in place by Arnold and Ford, and could actually be like a consciousness switch (reintroduces the inner voice for all hosts, speeds up evolution of hosts) for all the hosts, and maybe mib knows that somehow.
Saucycarpdog
Member
They have to make plenty of room to explore Romeworld and Medievalworld.
Yup.
J. Nolan, with Abrams as an EP.
Think of the story progression of previous shows Abrams has been involved with, or was showrun by Nolan.
LOST
Fringe
Person of Interest
The series are well-known for zooming out the show with their season finales and premieres.
Shit's gonna get crazy. 100%.
negreenfield
Member
I have to ask because it's been bugging me. There was a character Teddy interacts with named Samuel that looked a lot like Thomas Jane, that wasn't him was it?
Bernard could be Arnold though right? As in the host version of him, repeating his previous mistakes. Perhaps the conversations we've been seeing are actually Arnold(when he is dressed in different clothing) and this explains why he seems to be always downtrodden in his up to date host form. Ford could be lying about what Arnold looked like and Bernard could just be another one of his experiments.
This of course would still allow for the time skip, and we would indeed be watching the conversations that lead to the first incident.
This of course would still allow for the time skip, and we would indeed be watching the conversations that lead to the first incident.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
How are you getting this feeling, they have been giving answers in ep 2 and 3.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Yep, this is why I'm excited. This has very good writers.
Very high production values. Good acting, many intriguing moments. It's leaning too heavily on intentionally obscuring what's going on for my tastes, but lots of people are into it. Definitely worth watching the first episode at least, see how you feel.
Yeah, if there is a human is a host twist my money is on Bernard, and yeah him likely being created by Ford in secret to replace Arnold.
Ford mentioned defying death itself, and I think he knows he already essentially has by resurrecting Arnold, to an extent anyway.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm just hoping we avoid the trope I've expected since the moment William walked onscreen where he falls in love with Dolores and she ambiguously manipulates him for evil robot reasons.
Sapiens
Member
Westworld is all about cliches. It should be obvious by now.
copy pasta of my thoughts from another forum, with some small edits
I think that Dr. Ford and Bernard are actually working towards the same end goal. I think that Ford is manipulating Bernard by using the most basic psychological offensive, reverse psychology, by telling him the story about Arnold and that Bernard should not make the same mistake. You can notice that while Dr Ford is alone with any host he is much more empathetic towards them, talks to them as if they're human. He talks to Teddy in the same way in talks to Bernard. But if he happens to catch any other employee trying to act with modesty around a host he treats that host much more aggressively.
In the scene where Ford is giving Teddy his backstory, Ford seems to genuinely care about Teddy and then he gives him a back story about facing a new threat and Wyatt. Could not this be preparing Teddy to face the upcoming struggle with actual humanity, and Wyatt is an analogue of that threat?
I think at one point, Ford talks to Bernard about his son, I believe he does that in order to further push him towards what he later ends up doing with Dolores.
I think that Dr. Ford and Bernard are actually working towards the same end goal. I think that Ford is manipulating Bernard by using the most basic psychological offensive, reverse psychology, by telling him the story about Arnold and that Bernard should not make the same mistake. You can notice that while Dr Ford is alone with any host he is much more empathetic towards them, talks to them as if they're human. He talks to Teddy in the same way in talks to Bernard. But if he happens to catch any other employee trying to act with modesty around a host he treats that host much more aggressively.
In the scene where Ford is giving Teddy his backstory, Ford seems to genuinely care about Teddy and then he gives him a back story about facing a new threat and Wyatt. Could not this be preparing Teddy to face the upcoming struggle with actual humanity, and Wyatt is an analogue of that threat?
I think at one point, Ford talks to Bernard about his son, I believe he does that in order to further push him towards what he later ends up doing with Dolores.
StopMakingSense
Member
There's gonna be Bernard Truthers the whole series long aren't there?
(I do love how everything is so up in the air)
I feel like the shortcomings of the hosts are too apparent for one to pull off being a human 24/7. If Ford could create a convincingly conscious being, I don't think he would be implementing his new desires in such a rudementary way. He would have had his hosts running like Bernard long ago.
Maybe he's trying to reverse engineer Arnold's creation.
Well, he wouldn't be a typical host. He would be like an uber host programmed with his own inner voice and who isn't program scripted into a loop. He would be like the embodiment of Arnold's direction with the hosts except evolved for a long time since then. Likely Ford would have to do cosmetic aging on him when he's sleeping from time to time (power him down while he's sleeping and add gray hairs, wrinkles, etc. from time to time).
The other hosts have a different purpose (to serve the guests essentially, and so they intentionally have shortcomings). If the hosts in the park are too real, the whole idea loses some of its appeal, as the writer guy pointed out. You don't want it to feel like you are straight up killing, hurting, and fucking actual human beings because it opens up too many problems to the guest's consciences.
Wonder if they'll replace both of them with one decently well known actor.
Maybe They could bring in Michael Shannon and Steve Buscemi. Actually I think both of them would be pretty dope guests, or maybe Buscemi a guest and Shannon a stealth host. He's kind of robotic at times lol. Buscemi would be a cool host corrupt mayor though.
Although I'm not sure if westworld will even be the main setting within a season or 2. Although if that's the case it's kind of a curious decision to call it westworld imo.
Westworld Empire
This is a HBO show, it's a non-issue.
Cornballer
Member
Loving the show. Wish I could partake in this thread but I almost always end up watching Sunday night shows on Mondays so I'm always a bit behind.
This weeks episode had my head spinning in the best ways. All the (obviously important) conversations created more and more questions for me about the nature of this show and what it's means for art and entertainment and how we interact with those things in a future where we can physically touch it in a way we can't now. I mean, every time someone picks up Hamlet and starts reading, Ophelia is on a death march to a horrible end, but no one considers Shakespeare a monster. The Man in Black is a odious, evil, horrible man and yet... he's much more like us the viewer than anyone else on the show, right? When someone in World of Warcraft gets bored and starts killing NPCs of the opposite faction we would never look at them in disgust like we do at the asshole in the saloon who shoots Teddy just for kicks, but how where exactly does that change?
I'm sure this has been discussed here already and will continue to be, but as a gamer it's funny how my views of the show are changed. I look at every interaction of the guests and hosts as if it's a quest hub in an RPG, and then I start wondering - like I do in video games with branching narratives - how it's all tied together behind the scenes. So I completely understand how the guy who got scared by the ambush straight up abandoned the shit out of that crazy cult quest and booted it back to town. AND, I guess I sort of understand why the asshole shot Teddy, maybe he didn't just do it to see (fake) someone (fake) die, but to see what changes in the game.
This of course makes me think of the Man in Black again, and how once you start playing the metagame you start trying to "break" things in the game. Maybe Harris isn't just a sadistic fuck, maybe he grew up playing games and knows the best way to see the cracks in the simulation is to start ganking NPCs. I love how the Man in Black is doing all these evil, horrible things and yet seems to be playing a role as much as anything, and he has a sort of almost calm, low-key efficiency to him. That, and his bemused lack of anger to the hosts even as he murders them wholesale, makes him like nothing so much as a guy trying to skip long cutscenes since he's seen and done this all dozens of times before and wants to get to the new content.
This weeks episode had my head spinning in the best ways. All the (obviously important) conversations created more and more questions for me about the nature of this show and what it's means for art and entertainment and how we interact with those things in a future where we can physically touch it in a way we can't now. I mean, every time someone picks up Hamlet and starts reading, Ophelia is on a death march to a horrible end, but no one considers Shakespeare a monster. The Man in Black is a odious, evil, horrible man and yet... he's much more like us the viewer than anyone else on the show, right? When someone in World of Warcraft gets bored and starts killing NPCs of the opposite faction we would never look at them in disgust like we do at the asshole in the saloon who shoots Teddy just for kicks, but how where exactly does that change?
I'm sure this has been discussed here already and will continue to be, but as a gamer it's funny how my views of the show are changed. I look at every interaction of the guests and hosts as if it's a quest hub in an RPG, and then I start wondering - like I do in video games with branching narratives - how it's all tied together behind the scenes. So I completely understand how the guy who got scared by the ambush straight up abandoned the shit out of that crazy cult quest and booted it back to town. AND, I guess I sort of understand why the asshole shot Teddy, maybe he didn't just do it to see (fake) someone (fake) die, but to see what changes in the game.
This of course makes me think of the Man in Black again, and how once you start playing the metagame you start trying to "break" things in the game. Maybe Harris isn't just a sadistic fuck, maybe he grew up playing games and knows the best way to see the cracks in the simulation is to start ganking NPCs. I love how the Man in Black is doing all these evil, horrible things and yet seems to be playing a role as much as anything, and he has a sort of almost calm, low-key efficiency to him. That, and his bemused lack of anger to the hosts even as he murders them wholesale, makes him like nothing so much as a guy trying to skip long cutscenes since he's seen and done this all dozens of times before and wants to get to the new content.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think for the most part they've done a good job making the characters compelling, even when they're just robots. Except for Elsie.
Veritigo_X
Member
That green screen when Teddy was showing Delores how to shoot was hilariously bad. Immediately stood out to me.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
For posterity:
L+SD ratings
Episode 1: 1.96 million
Episode 2: 1.50 million
Episode 3: 2.10 million
L+SD ratings
Episode 1: 1.96 million
Episode 2: 1.50 million
Episode 3: 2.10 million
More_Badass
Member
Yes.
dead souls
Member
Such a bummer to see the numbers for this turkey going in the wrong direction. I'll finish season one, but I doubt I'll stick around for the second season unless it gets a lot better.
More_Badass
Member
"Such a bummer to see more people watching a series they enjoy. It should be failing" in sum and substance
Veritigo_X
Member
Why do you care if people enjoy the show?
Seems to have a weird shtick where he watches a whole bunch of shows he hates.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
It'll be going up against The Walking Dead starting this week so L+SD ratings will probably take a hit.
More_Badass
Member
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. I wonder what will have a bigger impact: the debate or TWD
dead souls
Member
HBO usually only airs one drama at a time. Part of the year is already wasted on GoT and now it looks like another chunk of every year will be wasted on this. I'd like to see HBO get back to making actually good dramas.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
dead souls
Member
David Simon has never let me down.
Ahh, the best part of Treme was the scene where the bus load of tourists are doing tourist shit and the camera panned to David Simon and he tersely informed the viewers that no one who wasn't born in New Orleans was allowed to watch Treme so I got to turn that boring shit off.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I was cringing at this awful post, but I've got to thank the mod for adding that signature to make me laugh.
Great to see, hope it keeps going up.RatskyWatsky said:
More_Badass
Member
Are you sure we're watching the same shows?