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[Chiaroscuro]

I think it is wrong to think about Westworld as an MMRPG. It is not designed like that, to group the visitors in quests. As someone said, more like attractions or Disney rides. Or a single player RPG that happens to be played by a lot of people at the same time.

In the first episode, we saw a lot of different guests. Even a Chinese group. If I am another guest and start thinking, that group would be out of place and the illusion would be gone.

I think part of the hosts tasks is to separete the guests into smalls groups by hooking them to tasks. They rarely interact with each others unless they already have previous connections (they are family, friens, etc). And that is what MiB wants to avoid, he wants to break the inner rules for some purpose we do not know yet.

The guest may have the feeling that they could do anything, but I believe they are very guided by the staff.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think it is wrong to think about Westworld as an MMRPG. It is not designed like that, to group the visitors in quests. As someone said, more like attractions or Disney rides. Or a single player RPG that happens to be played by a lot of people at the same time.

In the first episode, we saw a lot of different guests. Even a Chinese group. If I am another guest and start thinking, that group would be out of place and the illusion would be gone.

I think part of the hosts tasks is to separete the guests into smalls groups by hooking them to tasks. They rarely interact with each others unless they already have previous connections (they are family, friens, etc). And that is what MiB wants to avoid, he wants to break the inner rules for some purpose we do not know yet.

The guest may have the feeling that they could do anything, but I believe they are very guided by the staff.

I think this is more on target. The showrunners have already said that the hosts are always observing the guests, and guiding them away from legitimate danger or problems that would harm their experience.

However, I do think part of the thrill inherent in the scenario is that a human guest may never be quite sure who is a guest and who is a host. Like for example, guests who head outside of town and go on dangerous hunts or bounties. You're bound to run into other humans at some point, and nothing prevents those people from "role playing" and staying in character. They can act like a host and let you pass by. They could ally themselves. Or they could mess with you.

I think this is why William's introduction into the park was done the way it was. He was told this was about him and his choices, and not to concern himself with what others thought. The only concession was the reassurance his gun wouldn't kill anyone he wasn't supposed to kill. That invites a guest to not think about where other humans are and just going with the flow. The system - supposedly - will take care of everything.

 

[wetflame]

Bear in mind that while we see Delores repeating the same loop over and over the guests are having to pay $40,000 a day to visit, so they probably aren't going to be there seeing the same thing day after day. If they're staying for a few days they'll probably go explore other areas, or just take advantage of another story for the next day.

People aren't going there to be fooled into thinking they're stepping back in time to a real town in the wild west, to them it's like joining in on a game and there's so much going on that even if they notice someone do the same thing a couple of days in a row, odds are they'll be ready to try a new adventure and there'll be plenty of different hosts there ready to take them away. See how often William got approached.

When a host inevitably decides to escape Westworld, it's going to matter where Westworld is located.

True, even more reason for it to be on Earth, the stakes would be higher.

 

[afternoon delight]

Episode three revealed to me why I can't fully gel with this show (how the hell am I enjoying Penny Dreadful more than this?) and for me it's the unbelievable, awful, stilted, no-one-would-ever-say-that dialogue between the park staffers. Everything to do with the hardened android wrangler and the "sassy" programmer made me tune out due to their fake asses. Hopkins delivered a three minute monologue and we along with Jeffrey ask monosyllabic questions. Maybe I've been overrating J Nolan's characters since Memento if he's okaying these cardboard cutouts and lame ass info dumps.

The editing is also so choppy quick you know someone with ADD is at the helm, not to the level of that infamous Taken 3 clip but it's up there even in basic dialogue scenes.

It's pulp that wants to be so much more imho. I'll keep watching because I honestly enjoy R rated hardcore western violence and this is delivering the GOODS, but its central mystery and attempt at dramatic delivery are super stale.

 

[More_Badass]

True, even more reason for it to be on Earth, the stakes would be higher.

Replicants weren't on Earth originally. They staged an off-world mutiny/massacre and fled to Earth

So why does the park have to be on Earth for the stakes to be higher?

 

[Chiaroscuro]

However, I do think part of the thrill inherent in the scenario is that a human guest may never be quite sure who is a guest and who is a host. Like for example, guests who head outside of town and go on dangerous hunts or bounties. You're bound to run into other humans at some point, and nothing prevents those people from "role playing" and staying in character. They can act like a host and let you pass by. They could ally themselves. Or they could mess with you.

Sure a newbie guest would think about this thrill, the thrill is there, but what are the odds it will truly happen? The park runners don't say to the guests "this is a guided experience", they say "you can do anything, you can be anyone" because it is more appealing and generates more visitors/profits. But that is not the truth. The park runners sure will guide any guest to the more adrenaline path or whatever suits each guest, but the safest way possible. If they go hunting, the hosts will make sure the guest take a path that is safe and do not interfere with other guests routines. The same thing can be applied to the "routine" problem, that things repeat every day/specific time. As soon as the guest wake up the hosts are trying to move then to something different, the same way todays parks guide the visitors. The exit of an attraction is often a store and after that the path is near to the next attraction and not to the one you just experienced. If you want to repeat the ride, repeat the experience, you will have to make an effort to do so, the easiest path is the next attraction.

Of course, experiented guests will start noticing those patterns, just like William's friend. He even tries to warn William about it. Park staff will have to handle then different (just like they handled MiB, throwing difficulties in his path). MiB behaviour is exactly like that, to avoid being guided. At this point he could be a more experiented William or even his friend. I am inclined to assume that something bad happened to one of them (I will say the friend) turning the other in a more cynic person.

 

[Cornballer]

- Slashfilm: Westworld Bits: Designing Dolores, How to Make a Young Anthony Hopkins (content links, many have been already been discussed in the thread)
- Vimeo vid on Westworld cinematography/framing in Ep1 & 2: The center of Westworld
- NY Mag: The 5 Simple Rules to Westworld’s Wild West Theme Park
- Warming Glow: ‘Westworld’ And The Lynchpin To Understanding The Bernard-Is-A-Host Theory
- Quick Sepinwall video discussion: Is the huge 'Westworld' cast a problem? (second question at about the 3 min mark)

 

[wetflame]

Replicants weren't on Earth originally. They staged an off-world mutiny/massacre and fled to Earth

So why does the park have to be on Earth for the stakes to be higher?

Stakes are higher if they're already on Earth rather than being off somewhere in space and might come here at some point. I get what you're saying, but Blade Runner isn't set in space, and there's no real narrative reason why the replicants couldn't have been created to mine somewhere on Earth and escaped from there. Them having been from off-world means so little to the story that I completely forgot that was the case until you reminded me of it. No part of the film is about what space travel means to the characters, human or otherwise, it's all about what happens after they get here. Having to have a storyline where they travel to Earth would just confuse matters, having them exit Westworld into a futuristic landscape on Earth would do just as much for the story in terms of shock and confusion from the hosts, it would make it easier for them to have storylines about integrating into Earth society and it would make more sense for people visiting the park for a couple of days if they didn't have to go to space to do it.

 

[neoemonk]

I've been trying to remember what I've watched in the past few years that reminded me of Westworld and I just remembered - Dollhouse. I watched both seasons. I don't know if anyone else has made the connection but it's been bothering me.

 

[More_Badass]

Was listening to a podcast and they brought up a point; I need to rewatch the episode to see if it's accurate

That when Bernard is asking Delores if she's told anyone about their conversation, she never answers in a definite No, but rather "You told me not to". Which doesn't mean she hasn't told anyone else

And we know that Dolores is able to lie, since she didn't tell the handlers about everything her father said in the first episode

 

[Purkake4]

Was listening to a podcast and they brought up a point; I need to rewatch the episode to see if it's accurate

That when Bernard is asking Delores if she's told anyone about their conversation, she never answers in a definite No, but rather "You told me not to". Which doesn't mean she hasn't told anyone else

And we know that Dolores is able to lie, since she didn't tell the handlers about everything her father said in the first episode

Noticed that too, they also repeated it at least once.

 

[Rentahamster]

So, first of all, the daily loop. Can someone explain this to me? Say you are a guest and you arrive at \W/estworld and then you see Dolores doing her grocery and dropping that can, then? You sleep.... then the next day, you wake up and you see the same routine done, and the next day after, and so on? Wouldn't that hint who's what?

It might, but you'd have to be pretty damn observant if you're a newbie and pick up on it the first time. We, as the audience, know about it because we see it so much. Unless a guest goes into Westworld knowing exactly how it works, and sticks to observing one character all day, he or she probably wouldn't notice it among all the other background activity. Besides, the next day you might not even see Dolores doing the grocery drop again because there's a lot of things that could happen to interrupt her or move her onto a different story path (e.g. another guest meeting her before she gets to town).

What's the point of making the hosts as humanlike as possible if they are stuck in a narrative loop that gives them away? Like, wouldn't that break the immersion? Knowledge of who's real and who's not real tend to affect and alter human behaviours, I think...

You want the hosts as humanlike as possible for the immersion. Hardly anyone notices the narrative loop. The only guests who are aware of it are Ed Harris' character, and William's asshole friend. William is our vicarious window into what it's like when you go into the park fresh. He treats the hosts like regular people.

I have other mini gripes, like how female and female relationships are displayed (first episode already have female technician kissing female host, whilst the male and male relationships are mostly hugging and touching / caressing and allusions), and how we see nudes in the series of mostly young and fit (and attractive) females but we dont see other body types of female nudes. (we see all kinds of nudes of the male hosts, in comparison). But those stuffs are expectable and I can brush them aside and keep on watching.

We've had male on male sexuality scenes too. The hosts need to be attractive to fulfill the guests' sexual fantasies. That's part of the lore. There were fat female naked hosts shown on screen, like in cold storage, for example.

My last comment would be that the park seems to be catered towards a default male guest. I hope women will also be wealthy and a valid target market in this futuristic fiction world, but there has been nothing so far in the hosts or the narratives that seems to cater for this wealthy women demographic. If I am a guest (I'm a grill), I can say there seems to be nothing in \W/estworld that would make me stay a long time from what the show has shown me thus far.

We've seen a fair amount of women guests, like the wife of the guy who shot the monologue bandit, the mom in the family who met Dolores painting, the women in the window during the bandit shootout in town, the redhead woman who Maeve tried to seduce, the woman in Teddy's party in episode 3, etc.

It was established in the first train scene of the first episode that the park can be either family friendly or murder city (the guy who talked about taking his family fishing, and then coming back along and being a bad guy instead).

You know the quests and adventures and stuff that you like about videogames? That's basically what this park is.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Bear in mind that while we see Delores repeating the same loop over and over the guests are having to pay $40,000 a day to visit, so they probably aren't going to be there seeing the same thing day after day. If they're staying for a few days they'll probably go explore other areas, or just take advantage of another story for the next day.

People aren't going there to be fooled into thinking they're stepping back in time to a real town in the wild west, to them it's like joining in on a game and there's so much going on that even if they notice someone do the same thing a couple of days in a row, odds are they'll be ready to try a new adventure and there'll be plenty of different hosts there ready to take them away. See how often William got approached.

bolded part: i think i saw how william experienced an 'overnight' phase in episode 3? he slept with the hooker (though he declined her sex offer, and the windows outside showed night) and then later at the end of the episode, it was night time again when dolores finally staggered to safety in his arms. i think if you sleep in town at that tavern, and the guests' primary view (in town) is of the town's main thoroughfare, it increases the chance of noticing repeated behaviours.

but yes, your second paragraph is what TTG and I have been leading off to, i think... like even if William saw Teddy die, he was never involved/engaged with that particular host to be bothered if Teddy returns to live again the next day, so it was a-okay by him. But personally speaking, for me, if I see that, it'd break the immersion a little for me as a guest.

You want the hosts as humanlike as possible for the immersion. Hardly anyone notices the narrative loop. The only guests who are aware of it are Ed Harris' character, and William's asshole friend. William is our vicarious window into what it's like when you go into the park fresh. He treats the hosts like regular people.

Yes, this is why i said maybe the fault is with me as an audience (who is also a gamer). So I've played GTA and The Sims and open-ended story line rpgs (like western rpgs) where you can make choices to be good or evil, so... to me, the premise isnt quite 'fresh', as you say. Some of the guests treat the hosts like regular people, but I find it difficult to buy into its credibility :< (due to the routines/daily loop and NPCs ressurection from death and so on)....

I figure, though, this part will be over soon enough and we will get to the part where the story wont focus on the 'what is human, really' stuff and move on towards the maze and the mystery of the set up. So, even if I have failed to gel on one aspect of the series, I am looking forward towards the next part :>

We've had male on male sexuality scenes too. The hosts need to be attractive to fulfill the guests' sexual fantasies. That's part of the lore. There were fat female naked hosts shown on screen, like in cold storage, for example.

the male on male was basically the male host caressing william's friend's upper arm. there was no actual kissing. unlike female on female.

and yes, there were unattractive nude females in cold storage, but never sitting being interviewed, so far. the ones with focuses on them has been attractive females, but not so for the males.

We've seen a fair amount of women guests, like the wife of the guy who shot the monologue bandit, the mom in the family who met Dolores painting, the women in the window during the bandit shootout in town, the redhead woman who Maeve tried to seduce, the woman in Teddy's party in episode 3, etc.

what i mean is that those women guests seem to be written by dude writers and do not represent what i would like to do as a guest :< (except maybe the woman's in teddy's party a bit, but i wouldn't leave teddy to be mauled by the bandits because why should i, i am invulnerable. weird.)

You know the quests and adventures and stuff that you like about videogames? That's basically what this park is.

but i've just been told not to think about it like games but more like disneyland. dont confuse meeeeee x___x





OTHERS WHO HAVE CHIMED IN: thanks very much for your opinions and inputs you guys gave me much food for thought and im appreciating ^____^

 

[TTG]

You are justified to have qualms about nudity on HBO and Cinemax(at least this was the case before my free subscription for that network ran out years ago). Early Game of Thrones was especially bad about this and the occasional weiner doesn't counteract it. Now that it's a success there's not a per show prerequisite to shoehorn some trivial or one time appearance female character into a nude scene and that goes double for Emilia Clarke. Anyway, I haven't noticed much of it in Westworld, but again, the setting is what it is. A lot of it is going to be male fantasy.

 

[Kayhan]

- Quick Sepinwall video discussion: Is the huge 'Westworld' cast a problem? (second question at about the 3 min mark)

I don't think the cast is big at all.

 

[More_Badass]

I don't think the cast is big at all.

Right? Compared to Game of Thrones, Vikings, Sons of Anarchy? The group of protagonists and major characters is small

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

You are justified to have qualms about nudity on HBO and Cinemax(at least this was the case before my free subscription for that network ran out years ago). Early Game of Thrones was especially bad about this and the occasional weiner doesn't counteract it. Now that it's a success there's not a per show prerequisite to shoehorn some trivial or one time appearance female character into a nude scene and that goes double for Emilia Clarke. Anyway, I haven't noticed much of it in Westworld, but again, the setting is what it is. A lot of it is going to be male fantasy.

<3

I don't think the cast is big at all.

i also dont think the cast is big at all !

 

[Rentahamster]

Yes, this is why i said maybe the fault is with me as an audience (who is also a gamer). So I've played GTA and The Sims and open-ended story line rpgs (like western rpgs) where you can make choices to be good or evil, so... to me, the premise isnt quite 'fresh', as you say. Some of the guests treat the hosts like regular people, but I find it difficult to buy into its credibility :< (due to the routines/daily loop and NPCs ressurection from death and so on)....

You might be experiencing a lack of imagination due to your bias as an audience member. The premise is that the artificial human hosts are so real and lifelike that you can't tell. Like the host says to William in episode 2: "If you can't tell, does it matter?". It's one thing to play a game on the TV and interact with primitive AI scripts. It's another thing to be in an actual real life setting with NPCs who look like humans, feel like humans, smell like humans, fuck like humans, and scream like humans.

I figure, though, this part will be over soon enough and we will get to the part where the story wont focus on the 'what is human, really' stuff and move on towards the maze and the mystery of the set up. So, even if I have failed to gel on one aspect of the series, I am looking forward towards the next part :>

Part of the theme is that ever so tantalizing philosophical idea of what it is, exactly, that makes us human. I hope they explore it more. It's what I like about movies/books/games that invoke AI storylines.

the male on male was basically the male host caressing william's friend's upper arm. there was no actual kissing. unlike female on female.

and yes, there were unattractive nude females in cold storage, but never sitting being interviewed, so far. the ones with focuses on them has been attractive females, but not so for the males.

It's basically a writing and lore thing, really. I try not to get too caught up in it, otherwise I'll be nitpicking for days. For what the purpose of the park is, there are a lot of attractive hosts to fulfill sexual fantasies. Those usually involve attractive people. The ugly males are seen most often as cannon fodder.

what i mean is that those women guests seem to be written by dude writers and do not represent what i would like to do as a guest :< (except maybe the woman's in teddy's party a bit, but i wouldn't leave teddy to be mauled by the bandits because why should i, i am invulnerable. weird.)

The writers aren't all men. One of the executive producers, Lisa Joy, has writing credits on all of the episodes. As an audience member, we can speculate what we'd like to do if we were in the park, but at the end of the day, the writers aren't writing just for us. They are writing for a broad audience, and not all of our tastes are the same. The scenes fit the characters as they are written. We can imagine ourselves in it, but we need to realize that they aren't written to target us as individuals.

but i've just been told not to think about it like games but more like disneyland. dont confuse meeeeee x___x

We've just given our takes on the show. Like all literary criticism, nothing is 100% sure. I'd advise to take our comments as a stepping stone and then come to your own conclusions about the show.

 

[Faddy]

- Quick Sepinwall video discussion: Is the huge 'Westworld' cast a problem? (second question at about the 3 min mark)

I strongly disagree with his point about the story not being focussed.

Shows build in lots of different ways and I think Westworld is being successful in creating a huge world to get lost in. The vastness of the show is the hook and what is going to happen is that these supposedly disparate story lines are going to converge into something special.

As it is things are tying themselves together. Dolores is the through line between the 3 male leads William, Teddy and Bernard.

 

[ryseing]

I spent $5.3 million at Westworld AMA (The Ringer)

Jason talked about doing this on The Watch the other day so here we are.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Right? Compared to Game of Thrones, Vikings, Sons of Anarchy? The group of protagonists and major characters is small

Lost also had a large cast and I would say it was one of the shows greatest strengths.

 

[Neoweee]

Lost also had a large cast and I would say it was one of the shows greatest strengths.

LOST also grew with time, and killed off characters regularly to keep things fresh. I wonder if Westworld will start introducing more characters from the Corporate side, or outside of the Westworld park (non-Guests, non-Hosts, non-Staff. Plots including government, police, etc.?)

 

[duckroll]

In the first episode, we saw a lot of different guests. Even a Chinese group. If I am another guest and start thinking, that group would be out of place and the illusion would be gone.

Wow... guess I better cancel my Westworld booking. Wouldn't want to ruin your white man fantasy.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

You might be experiencing a lack of imagination due to your bias as an audience member. The premise is that the artificial human hosts are so real and lifelike that you can't tell. Like the host says to William in episode 2: "If you can't tell, does it matter?". It's one thing to play a game on the TV and interact with primitive AI scripts. It's another thing to be in an actual real life setting with NPCs who look like humans, feel like humans, smell like humans, fuck like humans, and scream like humans.

yesh, maybe all of my imagination has been spent up thinking about pics for inktober :<

the premise of artificial hosts that are indistinguishable from humans is done many times before (ex machina, humans, etc.) and i am not against it. i just think the juxtaposition of the robotic routine in ww is counter productive against said premise.

Part of the theme is that ever so tantalizing philosophical idea of what it is, exactly, that makes us human. I hope they explore it more. It's what I like about movies/books/games that invoke AI storylines.

im glad you are enjoying it. for me, it's a bit of a tired dance, maybe because we've seen it many times over in other recent and older media/titles, so i would like to move on to the next meaty arc in ww...... but im glad others are enjoying it :>

It's basically a writing and lore thing, really. I try not to get too caught up in it, otherwise I'll be nitpicking for days. For what the purpose of the park is, there are a lot of attractive hosts to fulfill sexual fantasies. Those usually involve attractive people. The ugly males are seen most often as cannon fodder.

yeah, i said as much in my first post in this thread that it's something expectable and that i can get on with it. i just thought to mention it because that was noticeable for me (as a female viewer). but yep. onwards and forwards!

The writers aren't all men. One of the executive producers, Lisa Joy, has writing credits on all of the episodes. As an audience member, we can speculate what we'd like to do if we were in the park, but at the end of the day, the writers aren't writing just for us. They are writing for a broad audience, and not all of our tastes are the same. The scenes fit the characters as they are written. We can imagine ourselves in it, but we need to realize that they aren't written to target us as individuals.

it's only my perspective, i mean it feels like the theme park is catered for male guests, for me. but i wouldn't say that my pov is universal truth. even for other female viewers, they may feel vastly differently to me.

We've just given our takes on the show. Like all literary criticism, nothing is 100% sure. I'd advise to take our comments as a stepping stone and then come to your own conclusions about the show.

i am trying, yesh. i think i need to see more episodes to come to my own conclusions. so far, i'm finding some of its narrative pillars a bit lopsided, but a fair few of this thread's posters' opinions and inputs have been very good food for thought.

i definitely will continue watching :>

 

[aaaaa0]

i just think the juxtaposition of the robotic routine in ww is counter productive against said premise.

Thing is, how is it different from the human actors being paid at Disneyland to play the same Disney characters every day? The same little acted out skits? The same greeting lines and posing for the same photo opportunities?

Humans in real theme parks also have loops to play when doing their jobs, but can you argue that makes them less convincingly human?

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Wow... guess I better cancel my Westworld booking. Wouldn't want to ruin your white man fantasy.

I am not saying that! Don't go that way.

I am simple stating that guests go to Westworld with a cliche in mind, either build in history accuracy or simple movie/collective mindset. If you present something different than this cliche, their illusion will be gone. No one goes there thinking they are going back in time to a real western city, but they do not want to be reminded about that every second.

Any guest interaction would be keep to a minimum if you want to keep the illusion.

 

[McBryBry]

Idk how I feel about this yet. I've watched the first 2 episodes and I LOVE the concept and setting. But the story so far just doesn't seem like very much. It isn't drawing me in.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Thing is, how is it different from the human actors being paid at Disneyland to play the same Disney characters every day? The same little acted out skits? The same greeting lines and posing for the same photo opportunities?

Humans in real theme parks also have loops to play when doing their jobs, but can you argue that makes them less convincingly human?

yep yep

i was thinking a lot about this. like, if the hosts had been a mixture of human actors and android hosts, would that make the illusion harder to break? of course, the drawback would be that the human actors wouldn't be happy to be abused. but, in a way, then, wouldn't it be more rational to make the hosts not so humanlike? like.... the npcs in gta, most people aren't particularly sorry about running them over or shooting them dead, because we know its a game and that its an escapism mechanism.

I certainly have done my fair share of 'curiosity' behaviours in games that i wouldnt want to inflict on humanlike entities.

as far as paid actors in theme parks, they are not quite selling the premise that they are one of us, though. so that part is a major difference, as well...

anyway, loads of interesting thoughts

 

[elrechazado]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseam, but what's to stop me from stabbing another guest, particularlyif they are roleplaying and it's unclear they are not a host?

 

[More_Badass]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseam, but what's to stop me from stabbing another guest, particularlyif they are roleplaying and it's unclear they are not a host?

Hosts will intervene and take the stab for a guest or try to de-escalate the situation, move the aggressor away, and so on.

 

[elrechazado]

Hosts will intervene and take the stab for a guest or try to de-escalate the situation, move the aggressor away, and so on.

That's a good theory I suppose, but it doesn't hold much water with the chaos available. Billy's brother in law could have reached out and stabbed anyone eating dinner near them. They use the bullets thing as their explanation (as he aims his gun and implied just shooting people as the test). But if the eye patch host was a drunk guest instead, he could easily get stabbed or beaten.

In the end " because writers" takes care of it and it doesn't lessen how much I love this show, but there is no good explanation I've seen, beyond some shaky hand waving.

 

[f0lken]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseam, but what's to stop me from stabbing another guest, particularlyif they are roleplaying and it's unclear they are not a host?

In addition to the post upstairs I think laws would prevent it in the same way no one goes today to Disneyland to kill another person.

 

[elrechazado]

In addition to the post upstairs I think laws would prevent it in the same way no one goes today to Disneyland to kill another person.

The experience of Disneyland doesn't allow you to be armed with actual blunt, sharp, and projectile weapons and both allow and encourage you to literally kill and rape anyone at your leisure with only one discernible way (shooting) to absolutely confirm they aren't real.

 

[shira]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseam, but what's to stop me from stabbing another guest, particularlyif they are roleplaying and it's unclear they are not a host?

This is in the contract you sign with Delos before you enter the park

Spoilers I guess

Spoiler

You absolve Delos, Inc. of any wrongdoing if you or anyone in your party suffers bodily harm while using The Service, and you agree to not sue or prosecute Delos, Inc. or any of the smaller entities falling under the Delos Corporation.

&#8220;All weapons and equipment used within Delos parks are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. Gun ammunition contains proprietary safeguards related to bullet velocity, and tampering with gun safety features or ammunition automatically transfers liability to you and absolves Delos, Inc. of any injury or death that may occur as a result.&#8221;

The contract reveals that all livestock in the park are Hosts, ie AI robots. Everything with the exception of flies. And of course, all hosts utilize a Sood Samaritan&#8482; reflex to prevent bodily harm to visitors, &#8221; even when the narrative calls for them to appear to endanger guests.&#8221;

http://www.pajiba.com/westworld/delos-destinations-westworld-contract-explained.php
http://www.slashfilm.com/westworld-map-and-contract/

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Just watched the latest episode yesterday. I'll be honest, it didn't do much for me and I felt my interest spiraling off. I hope the next episode draws me back in.

 

[elrechazado]

This is in the contract you sign with Delos before you enter the park

Spoilers I guess

Spoiler

You absolve Delos, Inc. of any wrongdoing if you or anyone in your party suffers bodily harm while using The Service, and you agree to not sue or prosecute Delos, Inc. or any of the smaller entities falling under the Delos Corporation.

“All weapons and equipment used within Delos parks are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. Gun ammunition contains proprietary safeguards related to bullet velocity, and tampering with gun safety features or ammunition automatically transfers liability to you and absolves Delos, Inc. of any injury or death that may occur as a result.”

The contract reveals that all livestock in the park are Hosts, ie AI robots. Everything with the exception of flies. And of course, all hosts utilize a Sood Samaritan™ reflex to prevent bodily harm to visitors, ” even when the narrative calls for them to appear to endanger guests.”

http://www.pajiba.com/westworld/delos-destinations-westworld-contract-explained.php
http://www.slashfilm.com/westworld-map-and-contract/

That protects delos from liability - not other guests from your knife.

 

[Rentahamster]

the premise of artificial hosts that are indistinguishable from humans is done many times before (ex machina, humans, etc.) and i am not against it. i just think the juxtaposition of the robotic routine in ww is counter productive against said premise.


im glad you are enjoying it. for me, it's a bit of a tired dance, maybe because we've seen it many times over in other recent and older media/titles, so i would like to move on to the next meaty arc in ww...... but im glad others are enjoying it :>

I'm not sure how the juxtaposition is counter productive. It's part of the setting. This is one of the few times where artificial humans are being used as NPCs in a virtual game setting, that serves as the backdrop for their awakening. It's like a mix of themes from The Matrix, Ex Machina, and Log Horizon, and it works very well so far, in my opinion.

I've seen the media you mention too, and yet Westworld doesn't seem stale to me. The writers present the themes in a different way that I haven't seen before, and that's cool.

it's only my perspective, i mean it feels like the theme park is catered for male guests, for me. but i wouldn't say that my pov is universal truth. even for other female viewers, they may feel vastly differently to me.

Well, generally speaking, the wild west cowboy fantasy would tend to be a male-oriented fantasy. Not that women can't enjoy Westworld too, because a lot obviously do, but it does seem like an appeal to testosterone. There are, of course, family friendly activities in Westworld too, but the way the park employees talk about it, you'd think Westworld was actually called Murder Sex World.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I'm not sure how the juxtaposition is counter productive. It's part of the setting. This is one of the few times where artificial humans are being used as NPCs in a virtual game setting, that serves as the backdrop for their awakening. It's like a mix of themes from The Matrix, Ex Machina, and Log Horizon, and it works very well so far, in my opinion.

I guess i disagree... i mean if i can observe someone is an NPC by tells of their routine or via their resurrection, it would break immersion for me. It may not break immersion for others, though, so that's okay. But for me, it'd be counter productive. No matter how humanlike the NPCs are, if Teddy comes back to life or if I see Dolores dropped that can multiple times, I'd probably feel less sorry if I hurt them. But you know, that's just me.

I've seen the media you mention too, and yet Westworld doesn't seem stale to me. The writers present the themes in a different way that I haven't seen before, and that's cool.

There's a few older ones, like Blade Runner, and Almost Human, and so on. I think it's nice that you're still finding it fresh. To me, it feels like an old dog with an old trick. But I can enjoy other aspects of the show, so all in all, .... good, i guess?

Well, generally speaking, the wild west cowboy fantasy would tend to be a male-oriented fantasy. Not that women can't enjoy Westworld too, because a lot obviously do, but it does seem like an appeal to testosterone. There are, of course, family friendly activities in Westworld too, but the way the park employees talk about it, you'd think Westworld was actually called Murder Sex World.

yep yep, agree with all this.

hahahah yes. the way the park employees talk about it, it does seem to be over alluded that it should have been called murdersexworld :>

 

[jfkgoblue]

The walking dead or this tomorrow night? Ugh...

Leaning Westworld cuz I could DVR TWD and skip commercials

 

[jediyoshi]

Some ex-Verge members started up a Westworld podcast
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/out-west-westworld-fan-theories/id1167700780

Haven't followed this thread or fan theories, but the multiple timelines one and the one they cover on Theresa destroyed me

 

[RatskyWatsky]

New episode tonight!

Dissonance Theory

Spoiler

Dolores joins a bounty hunt in the badlands with William and Logan; Dr. Ford and Theresa talk about the park's future; Maeve is disturbed by a vision; The Man in Black makes a significant discovery on his quest.

 

[Rentahamster]

I guess i disagree... i mean if i can observe someone is an NPC by tells of their routine or via their resurrection, it would break immersion for me. It may not break immersion for others, though, so that's okay. But for me, it'd be counter productive. No matter how humanlike the NPCs are, if Teddy comes back to life or if I see Dolores dropped that can multiple times, I'd probably feel less sorry if I hurt them. But you know, that's just me.

I still think you're letting the omniscient perspective of being an audience member color your perception a bit too much. There's so much to do in Westworld that I don't think it's likely you'd be in the same place everyday to see the same portion of a loop more than once, even assuming the host is even in the same place everyday for the loop. There's enough real people around to cause enough randomness and hurry/delay the hosts' stories so that they aren't always in the same place at the same time.

These are artificial humans that look, smell, sound, and taste just like the rest of us. They can even pass a Turing test with no problem.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I still think you're letting the omniscient perspective of being an audience member color your perception a bit too much. There's so much to do in Westworld that I don't think it's likely you'd be in the same place everyday to see the same portion of a loop more than once, even assuming the host is even in the same place everyday for the loop. There's enough real people around to cause enough randomness and hurry/delay the hosts' stories so that they aren't always in the same place at the same time.

These are artificial humans that look, smell, sound, and taste just like the rest of us. They can even pass a Turing test with no problem.

no matter how convincing and how they can pass the turing test, if i see someone resurrected from the death a day after, it'll break some of that immersion, i think.

im only talking about the interactions in town, by the way. outside of town, seems like it's big enough not to run into other guests/hosts that are not relevant to your quests. but in town? that town seems small. we've only seen one main street, one tavern, probably one grocery store :x

 

[duckroll]

I am not saying that! Don't go that way.

I am simple stating that guests go to Westworld with a cliche in mind, either build in history accuracy or simple movie/collective mindset. If you present something different than this cliche, their illusion will be gone. No one goes there thinking they are going back in time to a real western city, but they do not want to be reminded about that every second.

Any guest interaction would be keep to a minimum if you want to keep the illusion.

I don't think this is necessarily true though. It would vary from person to person, and I think it is somewhat odd to point this specific thing out. I mean, let's take the Asian example. I go to Westworld with a bunch of my friends. We're all Asian. Are you saying that we are going to have trouble enjoying ourselves because we are reminded that we are not a "standard" part of the western illusion every second? Is simply looking in a mirror in the bathroom going to take me out of it? Does that make sense? Food for thought.

 

[Vaux]

how are guest to know who's a real human and who's an android? in case they want to kill someone for fun.

is that just a risk everyone has take when entering the park??

you would think a guest would be killed everyday, maybe not by a gun since that can be controlled, but they can stab someone.


enjoying the show so far.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

I don't think this is necessarily true though. It would vary from person to person, and I think it is somewhat odd to point this specific thing out. I mean, let's take the Asian example. I go to Westworld with a bunch of my friends. We're all Asian. Are you saying that we are going to have trouble enjoying ourselves because we are reminded that we are not a "standard" part of the western illusion every second? Is simply looking in a mirror in the bathroom going to take me out of it? Does that make sense? Food for thought.

Maybe I picked the wrong exemple. And I did not want to disrespect anyone.

And you are right, it varies from person to person, and sure there will be ones that don't mind, they do not want an illusion, they want just a Disney ride.

But I also do not thng that anyone can break the illusion, our inner selves ca fit any narrative.

 

[Lashley]

Even thought TWD is on tonight, I am so excited for this

 

[duckroll]

Maybe I picked the wrong exemple. And I did not want to disrespect anyone.

And you are right, it varies from person to person, and sure there will be ones that don't mind, they do not want an illusion, they want just a Disney ride.

But I also do not thng that anyone can break the illusion, our inner selves ca fit any narrative.

I'm not really offended or anything, I'm just picking up on the thought you expressed to show my perspective. I just think it's silly that people tend to think that seeing other people "break character" in a simulation might ruin the immersion when in reality, lots of people "break character" themselves are it's actually totally fine when it comes to entertainment stuff. Immersion is overrated. It's not the consistency of the setting that is appealing, it is the realism. Imo, most people who would visit a place like Westworld, especially repeat visitors, would be totally fine with other guests doing whatever they do, regardless of what they look like. What sells the "reality" of Westworld is that the hosts can pass for a person even if you know they aren't humans, and the production value of the actual environment. Everything feels real enough that when you play cowboy, you get a kick out of it. I think seeing a bunch of Chinese people also playing cowboy with you will not ruin that for most people!

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I'm not really offended or anything, I'm just picking up on the thought you expressed to show my perspective. I just think it's silly that people tend to think that seeing other people "break character" in a simulation might ruin the immersion when in reality, lots of people "break character" themselves are it's actually totally fine when it comes to entertainment stuff. Immersion is overrated. It's not the consistency of the setting that is appealing, it is the realism. Imo, most people who would visit a place like Westworld, especially repeat visitors, would be totally fine with other guests doing whatever they do, regardless of what they look like. What sells the "reality" of Westworld is that the hosts can pass for a person even if you know they aren't humans, and the production value of the actual environment. Everything feels real enough that when you play cowboy, you get a kick out of it. I think seeing a bunch of Chinese people also playing cowboy with you will not ruin that for most people!

idk duckie, seeing that trump does have a bunch of americans backing him to be president in 2016.... maybe things like that would ruin ww for some people :<

 

[Chiaroscuro]

idk duckie, seeing that trump does have a bunch of americans backing him to be president in 2016.... maybe things like that would ruin ww for some people :<

Again, I did not want to sound like a racist or something like that.

I am not american, neither support Trump and his ideas. I have traveled a lot already, vacation and business, including China (where I was very welcome, thanks).

But some things in the first episode stand out for (as a viewer) to remind that WW was a theme park. Specially because I travelled at lot, that Chinese group stand out for me, because as China become an economic powerhouse in the last two decades, chinese tourists became majority in every place. That is not a bad thing in any way, just remind me about tourists and being a tourist too. It would bother me? Not at all. But at that point of this topic we were talking about immersion, so I (maybe wrongly) bought it to the discussion.

But enough of excuses for myself, I think I made myself clear.