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[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Holy shit I got behind on this topic lol. Catch up time!

Damn... 40k a day to be in the park. I'm hoping inflation is like +200% in that future lol.

Loving this show so far, because it just a philosophical wet dream. Anthony Hopkins is like a darker John Hammond (Jurassic Park).

I wouldn't even necessarily say darker John Hammond, just novel John Hammond. I said very early in the thread that people should look to the original Jurassic Park novel's portrayal of Hammond, and also Doniger from the Timeline novel, for an idea of who Ford would ultimately shape up to be. They're definitely keeping up with typical Crichton themes and archetypes here.

 

[blindrocket]

Does anyone think that the Man in Black is

Spoiler

Arnold

? That's what I'm getting from the new information from episode three.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I think they are never going to reveal who he is because people are having too much fun speculating who he is.

Spoiler

MiB is MiB. He isn't some other character

 

[Trouble]

Does anyone think that the Man in Black is

Spoiler

Arnold

? That's what I'm getting from the new information from episode three.

Unless they were pulling a cheesy trick one of the park employees

Spoiler

refers to MiB as a guest

, so that doesn't seem plausible to me.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

To adjust a Rian Johnson quote:

"Your MiB theory sucks."

Alternatively:

What if the Man in Black... is the Man in Black?

 

[-griffy-]

Does anyone think that the Man in Black is

Spoiler

Arnold

? That's what I'm getting from the new information from episode three.

The photo that Ford showed of him and Arnold didn't seem to have a likeness to Ed Harris at all.

 

[CloudWolf]

To adjust a Rian Johnson quote:

"Your MiB theory sucks."

Alternatively:

What if the Man in Black... is the Man in Black?

Yeah, just like all those theories about Snoke in Star Wars. Can't he just be a bad guy without there being some big reveal tied to it?

 

[SargerusBR]

To adjust a Rian Johnson quote:

"Your MiB theory sucks."

Alternatively:

What if the Man in Black... is the Man in Black?

Can wait for him to transform into a Smoke Monster.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Yeah, just like all those theories about Snoke in Star Wars. Can't he just be a bad guy without there being some big reveal tied to it?

Snoke is so boring that I can't fault people for trying to spice him up with crazy theories.

The Man in Black however has been a captivating presence on the show so there is no need for a big twist regarding his identity.

Spoiler

There will be a big twist regarding The Man in Black's identity.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

My personal theory for the Man in Black is that he's an android that became self aware and got out. Hence his obsession with the park and finding the deeper meaning behind it. I mean, he even says that he was "Born" there. Maybe he meant it literally.

Alternatively, I can see there being a twist where the Man in Black isn't actually that bad a dude. It's just he's taken the Black Hat persona to the extreme and is actually a really nice guy outside of it all. Like someone playing Renegade in Mass Effect. At the end of the day the robots are just flow charts without real intelligence (as far as guests are aware at least).

 

[Trouble]

Can wait for him to transform into a Smoke Monster.

I will break my TV and unsubscribe from HBO.

 

[blindrocket]

The photo that Ford showed of him and Arnold didn't seem to have a likeness to Ed Harris at all.

Decades in the desert? lol Ed Harris has that leathered and wrinkled look like a prune left on a flat rock in the Arizona sun to dry out and reform into something wretched yet beautiful.

Can wait for him to transform into a Smoke Monster.

Wait, Damon Lindelof isn't attached to this in any way is he? If so I may as well stop watching now.

 

[Dan]

Westworld is a computer simulation to see if AIs could create their own AIs.

Hmm...

Now I'm imagining this is some crazy Talos Principle adaptation.

 

[newtypepilot]

I'll tell you who MiB is.

Spoiler

He's a prisoner in the park. Ford was disgusted at what he did to Truman so now he's having a taste of his own medicine.

 

[blindrocket]

William might or might not be MIB but how much of what we see is the present and how much is the past is very much up for debate. Something very unusual is happening that is clearly intentional. Dolores' memories and her perception of reality is not reliable. How much of what happens from the moment she arrives home at night is actual reality and how much of it was her memories triggering is very questionable.

The logo discrepancy can no longer be explained as a production error. We see the "old" logo in cold storage, in the Arnold flashbacks, and in the entrance scenes with William. We see the "new" logo everywhere on promo materials, on the title, in the presentation of the new storyline, and on the pillars of elevator level. Unless the argument is that they've been making production gaffs for two episodes in a row and they just happen to be in the scenes which are in the past? That would be a really odd accidental mistake.

Wow, that's pretty incredible and gets my brain turning. Who came up with the William theory? I swear, we are barely three episodes in and it's already dissected so well if that even remotely turns out to be true.

 

[DorkLord54]

I'll tell you who MiB is.

Spoiler

He's a prisoner in the park. Ford was disgusted at what he did to Truman so now he's having a taste of his own medicine.

Alternatively,

Spoiler

he's trying to find Mason, and the maze will lead him to Alex so they can find the numbers station.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Wait, Damon Lindelof isn't attached to this in any way is he? If so I may as well stop watching now.

Ironically, Damon Lindelof is running the best ongoing show on HBO.

 

[lamaroo]

Ironically, Damon Lindelof is running the best ongoing show on HBO.

He's running Last Week Tonight?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

We literally know the Man in Black is a human guest. Anyone theorizing otherwise is simultaneously over-reading AND not paying attention.

 

[Extra Sauce]

We literally know the Man in Black is a human guest. Anyone theorizing otherwise is simultaneously over-reading AND not paying attention.

It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an android would somehow pass itself off as human in order to be shielded against the smart guns used in the park, and fly under the radar of management.

 

[lamaroo]

It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an android would somehow pass itself off as human in order to be shielded against the smart guns used in the park, and fly under the radar of management.

I think he's speaking about

Spoiler

interviews from show creators stating he's a human.

Spoilered just in case, even though it's been discussed openly in this thread.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an android would somehow pass itself off as human in order to be shielded against the smart guns used in the park, and fly under the radar of management.

The park management knows who he is (Stubbs remarking that he gets to do whatever he wants). It makes no sense for park management to not be able to distinguish him using their tracking software and infrastructure (the park operative who mentions he's been tearing through hosts). How would he "pass himself off" as human to the smart ammunition used in the park? Why would a host be obsessed with playing the game to the deepest level? Why would a host constantly refer to how much better the park is than the real world because he enjoys the details placed by the park's creators? Why would he refer to not wanting to ever leave again "this time"? Etc.

The show makes it 100% crystal clear that he is a human guest who is a frequent visitor. Beyond that may be vague or unknown, but that we factually know. It's not even supposed to be a question, like at all. Any theory otherwise is just silly and overly complex.

 

[Extra Sauce]

I think he's speaking about

Spoiler

interviews from show creators stating he's a human.

Spoilered just in case, even though it's been discussed openly in this thread.

Oh. Well... I will go ahead and take that with grain of salt considering the lengths JJ has been known to go to in order to surprise his audience.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Oh. Well... I will go ahead and take that with grain of salt considering the lengths JJ has been known to go to in order to surprise his audience.

JJ's not running this. It's a Nolan and Joy ship.

 

[Extra Sauce]

The park management knows who he is (Stubbs remarking that he gets to do whatever he wants). It makes no sense for park management to not be able to distinguish him using their tracking software and infrastructure (the park operative who mentions he's been tearing through hosts). How would he "pass himself off" as human to the smart ammunition used in the park? Why would a host be obsessed with playing the game to the deepest level? Why would a host constantly refer to how much better the park is than the real world because he enjoys the details placed by the park's creators? Why would he refer to not wanting to ever leave again "this time"? Etc.

The show makes it 100% crystal clear that he is a human guest who is a frequent visitor. Beyond that may be vague or unknown, but that we factually know. It's not even supposed to be a question, like at all. Any theory otherwise is just silly and overly complex.

I can think of answers to all those questions. Would they be overly complex? Probably. Could the writers come up with more elegant answers? Maybe. In any case, I don't care enough to make the case. You don't think it's possible, I do... that's okay.

JJ's not running this. It's a Nolan and Joy ship.

I know that, I was referring to his role as a producer. He does not need to write or direct a project in order to be involved in the marketing of it. See: Cloverfield.

 

[ryseing]

He's running Last Week Tonight?

No, he's running High Maintenance.

(He's running The Leftovers, and in the press for that show has done his penance for Lost)

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I can think of answers to all those questions. Would they be overly complex? Probably. Could the writers come up with more elegant answers? Maybe. In any case, I don't care enough to make the case. You don't think it's possible, I do... that's okay.

Yes, you "can", but I mean, conspiracy theorists can "answer" any question posed to them too, lol. Come on, this is silly. Some exceedingly elaborate twist that runs contrary to literally ever second we've seen of the character on screen isn't going to happen. That would be terrible and nonsensical.

Aside from the fact that the point of the character is literally to provide a contrast to the hosts and represent the worst of actual humanity. Him being a robot throws that all away.

I know that, I was referring to his role as a producer. He does not need to write or direct a project to be involved in the marketing of it. See: Cloverfield.

He's likely even less involved in the marketing than he is the actual production. It's different for a major TV show with a huge budget than it is with a very low budget movie. HBO is going to have the most control, with the showrunners getting whatever control is left. JJ always steps back from shoes he produces and leaves it all up to the showrunners. Similarly he had very, very limited involvement with Person of Interest, where everything was run by Nolan and co. (except for marketing which was fully CBS).

 

[Saucycarpdog]

I think center of the maze leads to something Arnold hid before he died. They did say he died in the park. Maybe he was working on something.

 

[duckroll]

I think center of the maze leads to something Arnold hid before he died. They did say he died in the park. Maybe he was working on something.

I hope it's the RX-78. Delos = Anaheim Electronics.

 

[blindrocket]

I just rewatched Episode 2 and I now don't believe that MiB is Arnold.
But that theory of him being William seems pretty strong.

I must say though, the MiB seems to be playing for keeps, but at the same time, at least at this point, he's playing in God Mode. Perhaps is why he wants something deeper, but I don't think you can really feel all that bad ass if you take all of those shots and nothing happens to you.

We did see William take his first shot and it looked like a real bullet hit him and spun him right down. The MiB takes shots all day long and doesn't get phased.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder if the hosts are forced to do whatever the guests want. It felt like that in the first episode when those guests had Teddy take them to a whorehouse. I'm just wondering if you could tell a host to do something crazy and they're "forced" to do it.

For example, could a host prostitute turn down a guest if they wanted?

I could have sworn they said the hosts are programmed to basically do what you want them to after a fashion.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

The park management knows who he is (Stubbs remarking that he gets to do whatever he wants). It makes no sense for park management to not be able to distinguish him using their tracking software and infrastructure (the park operative who mentions he's been tearing through hosts). How would he "pass himself off" as human to the smart ammunition used in the park? Why would a host be obsessed with playing the game to the deepest level? Why would a host constantly refer to how much better the park is than the real world because he enjoys the details placed by the park's creators? Why would he refer to not wanting to ever leave again "this time"? Etc.

The show makes it 100% crystal clear that he is a human guest who is a frequent visitor. Beyond that may be vague or unknown, but that we factually know. It's not even supposed to be a question, like at all. Any theory otherwise is just silly and overly complex.

Well for starters he wouldn't necessarily be known to the current members of staff because the idea would be that he's an android from a long time ago. Only person that would be around that long would be Ford and he's not involved in paying attention to visitors.

We also have no idea how the guns distinguish between android and human. It could be a tracker in the android, it could be something in the gun itself that somehow manages to tell the difference. Without understanding how that works, we can't actually use the guns as evidence for either side.

Host would be obsessed because the park was their reason for existing. In fact, I'd argue a host is more likely to think that there's a deeper level than one of the guests would. To guests its just a theme park, to the hosts it's their entire life.

Host could easily think the park is better than the real world if they'd experienced the real world. You don't have to be human to think that reality is a bit shitty.


Not that I'm fully on the robot wagon, just that there's a lot of evidence that could just be a hard misdirect until it's fully explained how stuff actually works.

edit: An interesting thing to think about with the guns. When the gun was used on William, it knocked him and hurt him. Yet the MiB is unphased by all of the force, could be evidence of being a robot and being hardier than regular people.

 

[duckroll]

I could have sworn they said the hosts are programmed to basically do what you want them to after a fashion.

Not entirely, it depends on the narrative design of the host. The catch is that they can never oppose a guest and win, but some are designed such that resistance is part of the point. Teddy is a guide host, so he will likely go where ever a guest wants and provide assistance. Dolores is a reward host so the only way to get her to do what you want is to either woo her by doing her character quest, or take her by force. Some hosts are outlaws or psychopaths, and either serve only as opponents or can act as party members if you're playing a bad guy.

 

[jett]

This is my outlandish theory: there is nothing to theorize about. This looks like a fairly straightforward show to me.

 

[Transhuman]

That "robot killing himself with giant ass rock" moment reminded me of Lost. I bet it turn out to be basically a redirection with no relation to the main plot.

My first thought was that it's consciousness was so pronounced that it knew it would be examined, so it destroyed itself to prevent data recovery because it was "scouting the perimeter" trying to map out an escape.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

This is my outlandish theory: there is nothing to theorize about. This looks like a fairly straightforward show to me.

That'd be likely if not for the people behind the show being who they are.

 

[blindrocket]

I'll be honest, upon seeing this on the screen

It sure reminded me of this shit

Obviously unrelated, but it was enough to remind me...

 

[newtypepilot]

I hope it's the RX-78. Delos = Anaheim Electronics.

nah it's probably Turn A. Moonlight butterfly will make all hosts go sentient.

 

[caliph95]

I really don't think the way they were going they won't be anything huge with MIB. Like we may find out his backstry but i don't think he will something like a host, William, Arnold or anything huge like that.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Well for starters he wouldn't necessarily be known to the current members of staff because the idea would be that he's an android from a long time ago. Only person that would be around that long would be Ford and he's not involved in paying attention to visitors.

That still doesn't address that Stubbs, a man with a very hardline stance on the robots, knows precisely who he is.

We also have no idea how the guns distinguish between android and human. It could be a tracker in the android, it could be something in the gun itself that somehow manages to tell the difference. Without understanding how that works, we can't actually use the guns as evidence for either side.

We all we need to know - they penetrate hosts, they don't penetrate guests. Throwing in a random *but not the Man in Black Bot exception is needlessly complex and confusing.

Host would be obsessed because the park was their reason for existing. In fact, I'd argue a host is more likely to think that there's a deeper level than one of the guests would. To guests its just a theme park, to the hosts it's their entire life.

Host could easily think the park is better than the real world if they'd experienced the real world. You don't have to be human to think that reality is a bit shitty.

This doesn't address the fact that he has left the park and is obsessed with staying "this time".

edit: An interesting thing to think about with the guns. When the gun was used on William, it knocked him and hurt him. Yet the MiB is unphased by all of the force, could be evidence of being a robot and being hardier than regular people.

More over-analyses that I saw a ton of when catching up through the thread. We know the guns still hurt guests. William was caught off guard from the sudden pain and crumpled from the pain and shock, not the sheer brute force. Remember, he didn't even think he could get shot, so getting hit and feeling pain really threw him through a loop. He thought he actually was shot at first, and reacted in kind. Meanwhile the Man in Black has been shot hundreds of times. He knows the pain, he expects the pain, and he likely even thrives on it. He's obsessed with the aura of power and invincibility he has developed in the park - shrugging off bullets makes him feel strong and tough.

 

[caliph95]

More over-analyses that I saw a ton of when catching up through the thread. We know the guns still hurt guests. William was caught off guard from the sudden pain and crumpled from the pain and shock, not the sheer brute force. Remember, he didn't even think he could get shot, so getting hit and feeling pain really threw him through a loop. He thought he actually was shot at first, and reacted in kind. Meanwhile the Man in Black has been shot hundreds of times. He knows the pain, he expects the pain, and he likely even thrives on it. He's obsessed with the aura of power and invincibility he has developed in the park - shrugging off bullets makes him feel strong and tough.

Didn't Jonathan Nolan explained in an interview that people like MIB who are used to the gun shots, they wouldn't be knock out like William.

 

[Realeza]

Any idea when this will be up on Amazon Instant Video or Vudu? Can't buy it anywhere and I want to see!

 

[duckroll]

Any idea when this will be up on Amazon Instant Video or Vudu? Can't buy it anywhere and I want to see!

Maybe next year after the season ends.

 

[Ultrarobotninja]

Any idea when this will be up on Amazon Instant Video or Vudu? Can't buy it anywhere and I want to see!

If you were willing to buy it on vudu you might as well sign up for "hbo now" instead.

 

[More_Badass]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/19/westworld-game-thrones-crossover

So here’s the pitch: What if instead of eventually introducing a Medieval World into the show, there was a Westeros World filled with android hosts modeled after Game of Thrones? It’s like how Universal has its Wizarding World of Harry Potter park and Disney is creating a section of its park based on Star Wars, except with all the interactive sex and violence that Westworld offers its hedonistic guests. Then HBO could even resurrect popular dead characters such as Khal Drogo and Ned Stark.

Well, fans aren’t the only ones who have had this idea. It actually occurred to Thrones author George R.R. Martin even before Westworld premiered. In fact, the author mentioned it to the Westworld showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy over dinner weeks a couple months ago,

 

[Rentahamster]

It actually occurred to Thrones author George R.R. Martin even before Westworld premiered. In fact, the author mentioned it to the Westworld showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy over dinner weeks a couple months ago,

I wonder if he was joking or serious.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Everyone is so busy thinking about mib, different timelines, I haven't seen any discussion of the actual clues in ep3... namely the freakin star map to Orion.

Now Orion is visible pretty much everywhere on earth so it really doesn't give us a clue to the location of the park.

It's one of the easyist and most recognizable constellations to find, personally my favorite.

The Greeks called it "the hunter" I don't think they choose it randomly.

Edit: hmm the babylonians called it "the true messenger of the gods"

Could also just be a subtle wink to blade runner

 

[Cornballer]

- The Ringer's "The Watch" podcast from earlier this week (10/17) covers Westworld for the first half

It's worth a listen if you're looking for Westworld podcast content.

 

[wetflame]

Now Orion is visible pretty much everywhere on earth so it really doesn't give us a clue to the location of the park.

I was going to suggest that at least it tells us that the park is on Earth and not elsewhere, but the sky could be fake for all we know.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I was going to suggest that at least it tells us that the park is on Earth and not elsewhere, but the sky could be fake for all we know.

True. I think at the very least it's a key to finding the maze, it seems from the preview

Spoiler

Bernard is aware of it or made it himself.

I'm trying to remember what the little girl said about it but drawing a blank. Going to have to google it.

"follow the blood arroyo to where the snake lays its eggs."

Ok then... going to try and enter that into the discoverwestworld chat bot.