wesleyshark
Banned
Anthony Hopkins commands the entire fucking show. Gotdam
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
wesleyshark
Banned
Loved the final scene. This is some top tier acting.
Seems like they are from another company interested in the park
shira
Member
So yeah this show is awesome, definitely going to be one of "the greats" and HBOs flagship title in a post GoT world.
One thing though- anyone sometimes find the show extremely hard to watch at times? The Uncanny valley is so fucking real with this show, so much so that I couldn't even get through the first episode the first time I watched it.
One thing though- anyone sometimes find the show extremely hard to watch at times? The Uncanny valley is so fucking real with this show, so much so that I couldn't even get through the first episode the first time I watched it.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Naw. Until this show actually does a big twist of any kind I'm refraining from any wild speculation. It only ruins things
God damn Anthony Hopkins still got it.
It's pretty clear Bernard is directly accessing Dolores in her "dreams" they aren't hauling her in every night.
I wonder if Williams friend is the guy from corporate? He says they already have a stake and are thinking of expanding it. Makes sense he would be on he board of directors. Or at least advising if his family owns a large percentage.
Mib escape was awesome. Reminded me of some MGS fuckery. Maybe it was the snake tattoo lady subliminally influencing me but I like to think they are using games as influences.
God I love this show.
I'm glad we can move on. Everyone has moved on from that craziness right?
It's pretty clear Bernard is directly accessing Dolores in her "dreams" they aren't hauling her in every night.
I wonder if Williams friend is the guy from corporate? He says they already have a stake and are thinking of expanding it. Makes sense he would be on he board of directors. Or at least advising if his family owns a large percentage.
Mib escape was awesome. Reminded me of some MGS fuckery. Maybe it was the snake tattoo lady subliminally influencing me but I like to think they are using games as influences.
God I love this show.
Really bummed by no logo theory
"Theory: The Man in Black is the Man in Black"
I'm glad we can move on. Everyone has moved on from that craziness right?
Another amazing episode - though I felt the MiB stuff was a bit drab and uninteresting aside from the bits that were dropped about his backstory.
The thing I find amazing is how well this show juggles two "mysteries." The more immediate one we, the audience, know the answer too, but many of the hosts are slowly realizing and learning about it and trying to solve it - and it's incredible how interesting they make that - and the other mystery is the one we as the audience don't know the answer to yet. It gives the characters and narrative two angles to play in a very interesting way since the audience is in the know where some of the characters are in the dark, but in other areas the audience is in the dark. I think this dynamic makes it more interesting and satisfying than something like Lost that just piled mystery-upon-mystery on the audience.
The thing I find amazing is how well this show juggles two "mysteries." The more immediate one we, the audience, know the answer too, but many of the hosts are slowly realizing and learning about it and trying to solve it - and it's incredible how interesting they make that - and the other mystery is the one we as the audience don't know the answer to yet. It gives the characters and narrative two angles to play in a very interesting way since the audience is in the know where some of the characters are in the dark, but in other areas the audience is in the dark. I think this dynamic makes it more interesting and satisfying than something like Lost that just piled mystery-upon-mystery on the audience.
That's why I think it's William rather than his future brother-in-law. He doesn't have any financial stakes and would be potentially less biased. William is also new to the park so an outsider's perspective might be beneficial.
I just think it's corporate rather than an outside company.
He did seem surprised/disappointed they were "on business" though.
Plus the asshole fits the corporate stereotype better.
Pretty sure the show creators have directly said they've been influenced by video games in interviews.
shira
Member
Veteran players are different from first timers.
There's different reward tiers depending on how much you pay.
The prison escape is based on the movie..
Chiggs
Gold Member
I know it's only Episode 4 but it's time to pick up the pace. Hopefully the final scene of tonight's show indicates that the robots will start becoming aware of what they are and what the park is.
I can't handle too many more "past life was bad" flashbacks, and I wish flashbacks in general would just die and go to hell.
I can't handle too many more "past life was bad" flashbacks, and I wish flashbacks in general would just die and go to hell.
That's the center of the maze dummy. Everyone gets a personalized autograph and a bag of swag.
tearsintherain
Member
Goddamn watching this TV show is going to make playing video games harder, like "well... Watch Dogs 2 is nice and all, but in Westworld I could have..."
I was 100% expecting this show to be a mess after the production delays but its easily become my favorite new show of the year. Hopkins and that scene, goddamn.
I was 100% expecting this show to be a mess after the production delays but its easily become my favorite new show of the year. Hopkins and that scene, goddamn.
But did Kojima watch that movie? Inception!
SiteSeer
Member
i felt the same way until that last scene. the set up and reward for it was so good. a devastating one-liner made all of the flash backs worth it.
i kept asking myself how they could extend a single premise 5 seasons, but if the writing stays consistently good and the direction can capitalize on it, maybe it can work.
Cornballer
Member
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Washington Post review
- The Week review
- Rolling Stone review
- Vox review
Videos:
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
Interviews and other content:
- Westworld postmortem: Producers discuss episode 4
- Thrillist: Dissecting That Weird Dolores Scene
- Thrillist: Director Vincenzo Natali on Episode 4's Secretive Filming Process
- THR: Jimmi Simpson Weighs In on Man in Black Theories
- YahooTV: Jimmi Simpson Talks Fan Theories and William's Future
- NY Mag: Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 4
- The Ringer: The Power Couples of Westworld
- Sepinwall's review
- Washington Post review
- The Week review
- Rolling Stone review
- Vox review
Videos:
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
Interviews and other content:
- Westworld postmortem: Producers discuss episode 4
- Thrillist: Dissecting That Weird Dolores Scene
- Thrillist: Director Vincenzo Natali on Episode 4's Secretive Filming Process
- THR: Jimmi Simpson Weighs In on Man in Black Theories
- YahooTV: Jimmi Simpson Talks Fan Theories and William's Future
- NY Mag: Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 4
- The Ringer: The Power Couples of Westworld
I dont see how this could go on for more than a few seasons unless it radically changes the premise from the park to the rest of the real world
Operations
Member
Awesome episode. Great performances all around. The story setup isn't as obvious as the theme would suggest. Makes me hopeful for the writers' capabilities of stretching the premise for five seasons.
Also, God damn at the soundtrack, this episode in particular. Haunting, deeply atmospheric and mesmerizing. Fucking amazing.
Also, God damn at the soundtrack, this episode in particular. Haunting, deeply atmospheric and mesmerizing. Fucking amazing.
At a certain point you'd think this really has to go Ex Machina with the robots out in the real world.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He's the guy on the role play server who breaks character and the fourth wall. He's hilarious.
Getting bored with the pace. Nothing important seemed to happen this episode.
Also getting frustrated with not understanding the "rules" of how the park works. Like, how often are dead hosts reset and how often do scripted events repeat? How do guests recognize and avoid hurting one another (e.g., with knives)? Does money matter or do guests just get everything they want (if the latter, why bother taking bounties or gambling in the saloon)? Not understanding the rules of the park means there's no stakes to the park scenes, since literally anything could happen... events just seem random.
I guess having immortal guests and reincarnated hosts is what really lowers the stakes. It was kind of eerie the way the MiB was invincible in episode one, but four episodes in the novelty's gone and it just feels like nothing matters.
Gonna stick with it for a few more episodes, but it's losing me. Kind of wish HBO had pursued another angle for their flagship GoT replacement.
Also getting frustrated with not understanding the "rules" of how the park works. Like, how often are dead hosts reset and how often do scripted events repeat? How do guests recognize and avoid hurting one another (e.g., with knives)? Does money matter or do guests just get everything they want (if the latter, why bother taking bounties or gambling in the saloon)? Not understanding the rules of the park means there's no stakes to the park scenes, since literally anything could happen... events just seem random.
I guess having immortal guests and reincarnated hosts is what really lowers the stakes. It was kind of eerie the way the MiB was invincible in episode one, but four episodes in the novelty's gone and it just feels like nothing matters.
Gonna stick with it for a few more episodes, but it's losing me. Kind of wish HBO had pursued another angle for their flagship GoT replacement.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Those two guys who addressed MiB were guests right? Sounds like he is quite the good guy in the outside world. Adds a lot better narrative to his character.
I'm not sure he's so much as a good guy in the outside world but rather just has the resources to run charities/foundations. I mean the dude threatened to kill him just a second later.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That guy was being very rude to interrupt another guest's immersion. Bad etiquette. "I'll cut your throat" line is just to restore the fourth wall.
We can see from William and Logan's interaction that Logan is actually a very nice guy, until he steps into the park.
I decided to take notes for a second viewing and came up with 3 pages worth. I think that this might've been the most interesting episode in terms of the questions it raises, and it managed to avoid the "what the fuck is this bullshit out of left field" problem that a lot of shows (and movies) run into when they're trying to add mystery.
Select excerpts:
Dolores echoes Bernard's phrasing regarding his son -- "This pain is all I have left of him"
Does this point to Bernard being the inevitable "host we didn't know was a host" (along with Ford's increasingly knowledgeable and patronizing nature towards him), or is it just illustrative of Bernard's influence within Dolores on the design level, and by extension, depict all hosts as sorta-kinda being his surrogate children?
"That's what we call motive, bub." - Some Law and Order episode, I'm sure.
subpoint -- Dolores and Bernard's meetings might be digital? Dolores collapses at the camp, meets Bernard, wakes up again at the camp, and no one acts like she's left
Doubt the maze is physical
The way that Bernard set Dolores on the path makes me think that it's more metaphorical -- they aren't going to find a labyrinth somewhere under Westworld, despite what the MiB thinks.
Who is Lawerence's daughter? Why does she seem to know not just about the labyrinth, but that they're all hosts?
I had thought before that the MiB managed to break her via putting her "feelings" for her mother in conflict with her programming to keep her quiet on the park's technical stuff, but the ease at which she coughed info up to Dolores seems to point at her being less character and more directly purposed, like the host that introduced William, who also knew she was a host.
"Your foundation saved my sister's life." "This is my fucking vacation." "I'm here to set you free." "You could say that I'm here to honor [Arnold's] memory" Maybe [you'll actually be able to kill me] someday."
The Man in Black is a big shot in real life. The Man in Black runs a foundation that saves lives in real life. The Man in Black told a bunch of real life people that he would cut their throats if they said another word. Props to casting, by the way. The second that babyface showed up, I was like, "Yeah, that's a guest."
Anyway, those three facts depict the Man in Black as a no-nonsense individual who truly has an innate desire to help. "Foundation" is a loosely charitable term nowadays (Thanks, you fucking orange piece of evil anthropomorphic candy corn), but in a well-written TV show, purpose overrides colloquial flexibility. In other words, it should be clear that the Man in Black is working towards the same goal as Arnold, the same as Bernard is covertly doing, and making good on his statement to Lawerence to set the hosts free -- in which case Lawerence would be able to make good on that promise to kill him.
So why all the violence towards hosts? That's what the "I'll cut your throat" line is for. The Man in Black is, to go cliche, a man of singular focus. The means, whatever they may be, justify the ends. He'll slaughter lawmen, scalp innocents, and kill Maeve's kid if it gets him closer to his goal, because until he's there, hosts are just hosts. It was deliberate that we didn't see him rape Dolores, because I don't believe he did. All the vile stuff he does is in pursuit of an objective, and rape just isn't a part of it, as far as we know. I could be wrong, but even then I'd be willing to bet it has to do with creating strong enough, horrible enough memories that the hosts are able to retrieve them past their wipes. It's not like we've seen any happy memories between Maeve and her once-daughter. "Say one more word and I'll cut your throat" was Ed Harris saying, "These people need help and if you some within a mile a jeopardizing that I will fucking end you." Not that that excuses anything if he did do it, obviously, but the circumstances are doubt-producing.
And, if all that isn't enough, the
Anyway, I foresee a William/MiB team up in the future. If William doesn't die in Dolores's transitional act to "fully conscious", that is.
Why do the Natives have a carving of the men in suits?
"It's a part of their so-called religion" says random extra number 14.
Okay, but that just raises so many more questions. If it was one native American who was doing essentially the same thing as Maeve by creating a physical documentation of their "nightmares", that'd be one thing. If it was a naturally occurring long-lasting behavior stemming from that idol carving, that'd be another - because I could see how scripting and narrative could only go so far for creating a simulation in which the hosts didn't know it was a simulation, and so improvised habits/rituals appear. After all, I doubt admin has pre-scripted all conversations for all 2000 hosts between all 1999 other hosts.
But for a random white dude to see, identify, and immediately understand the significance of a tribal "idol"? That's scripted. That's in his pre-programmed Wikipedia. Which means that Ford is incorporating real world and meta-park elements into his new narrative.
I would say "someone", but come on, it's Ford.
Someone give Anthony Hopkins all the Emmys
He was amazing this episode. And I have zero read on what his character is looking to do.
He makes allusions to being a god, and the imagery very clearly points to him being a God of War-style covetous, power/control-hungry sort of god who wants slaves of his "worshippers". But then why make the maze? Why introduce the reveries in the first place, which seem to be what enabled the formation of consciousness within hosts and then (next week spoiler)
He (as best I can guess) made the idol/doll of the man in the suit (and the correlating Native American religion) and gave the hosts the reveries that enabled consciousness, but seems wholly directed, both thematically and narratively, towards stopping that.
Fun Stuff
- "Easter Egg"
- William ready to squeal for joy when they're about to go in the house and do some serious White Hat Adventuring.
- "Upgrade" - Ben Barnes getting that purple rarity pistol
- I can see how people could hate Ben Barnes, but I really think he's doing a great job at being that guy you want to hate - "Evil? It's just a game!" isn't an easy line to sell, but he did. He's just a bro, and he'd fit in perfectly in a million other movies/TV shows, which is exactly where he's supposed to belong.
- "Don't call me Billy!" - Some history there
- Loved how they recontextualized Red Snake Tattoo's death. It was pretty fucked up the first time as Chubby Banker gloated over her as she was spurting her last, but knowing her story for the second time creates an effective additional layer.
- "Management is going to descend any day now" - metaphorically like vultures, or literally like Westworld is at the bottom of the ocean?
Yeah, I've gone down the rabbit hole.
Select excerpts:
Dolores echoes Bernard's phrasing regarding his son -- "This pain is all I have left of him"
Does this point to Bernard being the inevitable "host we didn't know was a host" (along with Ford's increasingly knowledgeable and patronizing nature towards him), or is it just illustrative of Bernard's influence within Dolores on the design level, and by extension, depict all hosts as sorta-kinda being his surrogate children?
"That's what we call motive, bub." - Some Law and Order episode, I'm sure.
subpoint -- Dolores and Bernard's meetings might be digital? Dolores collapses at the camp, meets Bernard, wakes up again at the camp, and no one acts like she's left
Doubt the maze is physical
The way that Bernard set Dolores on the path makes me think that it's more metaphorical -- they aren't going to find a labyrinth somewhere under Westworld, despite what the MiB thinks.
Who is Lawerence's daughter? Why does she seem to know not just about the labyrinth, but that they're all hosts?
I had thought before that the MiB managed to break her via putting her "feelings" for her mother in conflict with her programming to keep her quiet on the park's technical stuff, but the ease at which she coughed info up to Dolores seems to point at her being less character and more directly purposed, like the host that introduced William, who also knew she was a host.
"Your foundation saved my sister's life." "This is my fucking vacation." "I'm here to set you free." "You could say that I'm here to honor [Arnold's] memory" Maybe [you'll actually be able to kill me] someday."
The Man in Black is a big shot in real life. The Man in Black runs a foundation that saves lives in real life. The Man in Black told a bunch of real life people that he would cut their throats if they said another word. Props to casting, by the way. The second that babyface showed up, I was like, "Yeah, that's a guest."
Anyway, those three facts depict the Man in Black as a no-nonsense individual who truly has an innate desire to help. "Foundation" is a loosely charitable term nowadays (Thanks, you fucking orange piece of evil anthropomorphic candy corn), but in a well-written TV show, purpose overrides colloquial flexibility. In other words, it should be clear that the Man in Black is working towards the same goal as Arnold, the same as Bernard is covertly doing, and making good on his statement to Lawerence to set the hosts free -- in which case Lawerence would be able to make good on that promise to kill him.
So why all the violence towards hosts? That's what the "I'll cut your throat" line is for. The Man in Black is, to go cliche, a man of singular focus. The means, whatever they may be, justify the ends. He'll slaughter lawmen, scalp innocents, and kill Maeve's kid if it gets him closer to his goal, because until he's there, hosts are just hosts. It was deliberate that we didn't see him rape Dolores, because I don't believe he did. All the vile stuff he does is in pursuit of an objective, and rape just isn't a part of it, as far as we know. I could be wrong, but even then I'd be willing to bet it has to do with creating strong enough, horrible enough memories that the hosts are able to retrieve them past their wipes. It's not like we've seen any happy memories between Maeve and her once-daughter. "Say one more word and I'll cut your throat" was Ed Harris saying, "These people need help and if you some within a mile a jeopardizing that I will fucking end you." Not that that excuses anything if he did do it, obviously, but the circumstances are doubt-producing.
And, if all that isn't enough, the
preview for next week should be, with the meeting between Harris and Hopkins, who was very clearly depicted as a tyrannical Greek mythology-esque god -- setting up a bit of thematic framework parallel to Prometheus's story.
Anyway, I foresee a William/MiB team up in the future. If William doesn't die in Dolores's transitional act to "fully conscious", that is.
Why do the Natives have a carving of the men in suits?
"It's a part of their so-called religion" says random extra number 14.
Okay, but that just raises so many more questions. If it was one native American who was doing essentially the same thing as Maeve by creating a physical documentation of their "nightmares", that'd be one thing. If it was a naturally occurring long-lasting behavior stemming from that idol carving, that'd be another - because I could see how scripting and narrative could only go so far for creating a simulation in which the hosts didn't know it was a simulation, and so improvised habits/rituals appear. After all, I doubt admin has pre-scripted all conversations for all 2000 hosts between all 1999 other hosts.
But for a random white dude to see, identify, and immediately understand the significance of a tribal "idol"? That's scripted. That's in his pre-programmed Wikipedia. Which means that Ford is incorporating real world and meta-park elements into his new narrative.
I would say "someone", but come on, it's Ford.
Someone give Anthony Hopkins all the Emmys
He was amazing this episode. And I have zero read on what his character is looking to do.
He makes allusions to being a god, and the imagery very clearly points to him being a God of War-style covetous, power/control-hungry sort of god who wants slaves of his "worshippers". But then why make the maze? Why introduce the reveries in the first place, which seem to be what enabled the formation of consciousness within hosts and then (next week spoiler)
come off as diametrically opposed to the Man in Black, who seems to be following in Arnold's footsteps and working towards freeing the hosts?
Fun Stuff
- "Easter Egg"
- William ready to squeal for joy when they're about to go in the house and do some serious White Hat Adventuring.
- "Upgrade" - Ben Barnes getting that purple rarity pistol
- I can see how people could hate Ben Barnes, but I really think he's doing a great job at being that guy you want to hate - "Evil? It's just a game!" isn't an easy line to sell, but he did. He's just a bro, and he'd fit in perfectly in a million other movies/TV shows, which is exactly where he's supposed to belong.
- "Don't call me Billy!" - Some history there
- Loved how they recontextualized Red Snake Tattoo's death. It was pretty fucked up the first time as Chubby Banker gloated over her as she was spurting her last, but knowing her story for the second time creates an effective additional layer.
- "Management is going to descend any day now" - metaphorically like vultures, or literally like Westworld is at the bottom of the ocean?
Yeah, I've gone down the rabbit hole.
Yep. He has to go. "You become an evil fuck as soon as we leave the real world" is also a great quote that is very applicable to online gaming culture as a whole.
Also, they missed an easy SOTL reference with the Hopkins scene. He could have ordered himself a nice chianti.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
chiiii, dont worry, i would never thought of you as trump-supporter, like... ever.
i was just trying to be cheeky (and failing)
chi is totes very cool and very decent fella by me <3
tremendous wall. the best wall
HI MAK
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I think they're just establishing all the safety measures in the park to keep the guests out of relative harm. Yeah, probably just doesn't detonate.
Ya, that's what I'm thinking.
Also MiB just being a famous rich philanthropist was unexpected.
More_Badass
Member
The other real question...how did he contact them/request it? We haven't seen any kinds of communication devices on his person
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
He's gonna play the main antagonist in the Punisher series, lol.
I think they're 'explosive cigars', so once lit, mission control gets a signal and boom.
Bet we see a lot of that in the season finale.
He could have got it in a weapons crate lol