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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Westworld Park is on top of the Westworld personnel facility.
The technicians come from under ground all over the park.
The repairs and transport would be really fast. Lawrence just lost blood and have to have a cut repaired.
wesleyshark
Banned
So they took Lawrence and fixed him up, then quickly put him into place as El Lazo, just in time for William and Dolores to show up in Pariah. Who was El Lazo prior, when Lawrence was still Lawrence, about to be hung? And then in his home town with his wife and child? And then traipsing about with the MiB?
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of if William = MiB is actually a thing. Present day Dolores is retracing her exact steps from her loop with William. And her the two loops have been converging from her POV.
Except there are clearly union soldiers in MiB time.
Again they say Fords new narrative is shifting everyone around.
My bad. Wait, the Union are the good guys right? My American history sucks.
Yes. I hope you are not an American
When does MIB interact with Union?
? They're the same character.
El Lazo is a nickname. Lawrence is the character's real name.
wesleyshark
Banned
While that's true for the present, that shift is still underway. The new narrative has nothing to do with what William and Logan are experiencing.
Next episode? Who is he looking for with teddy?
Yes. I hope you are not an American
Haha, don't worry I'm not.
I dunno. I guess I'll find out when I watch it.
Wyatt as Union commander is in Teddy backstory only. Probably no Union uniform if they meet him.
wesleyshark
Banned
He's referring to the MiB
He's basically saying Ed Harris' character isn't as tough and secure as he acts.
I think he's suggesting that MiB is usually more methodical and careful, and now he's just rushing it for some reason.
What I find interesting (and annoying) is that once again, the scene between them establishes that they know each other, and MiB happily uses Ford's first name, but Ford never uses a name, extending the mystery of ~who is this guy~.
The longer they drag this out, the funnier it's going to be when they pull the big "reveal" in the season finale, with Dolores remembering all her scenes throughout the season, except you see that William was never there, and then MiB finally approaches her again, and she calls him William. Lol.
wesleyshark
Banned
This is more or less what I'm expecting
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
If he's attributing MiB with a "certain anxiety" when he barely expressed any in present day, can this be used to reinforce the idea of MiB = William?
Or not. Dammit. The sooner this theory of asynchronous timelines is put to rest the sooner everyone regains focus.
Delores.. Delos.. omg!
From the conversation she had with Ford, it sounds like she was hand picked by Arnold to lead the revolution and that is probably why she has been through the maze before. MiB must have figured that out too and is why he took the time to try to break her out of her loop
I wonder if this means MiB is dying or something. It sounds like the world outside is pretty much post disease however.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Remember the pilot. Dolores is the Judas Steed.
As much as I like playing with the William = MiB theory and I do think at this point it is true, I agree it's really lame that they're dragging it out. It's starting to feel like the ~mystery~ some people already solved but the show pretends it isn't totally obvious.
I did consider that maybe he has some terminal illness, but maybe it's something worse. Maybe he's literally tired of life and wants to beat the game to have some real sense of achievement. Existential crisis? Lol.
As much as I like playing with the William = MiB theory and I do think at this point it is true, I agree it's really lame that they're dragging it out. It's starting to feel like the ~mystery~ some people already solved but the show pretends it isn't totally obvious.
I did consider that maybe he has some terminal illness, but maybe it's something worse. Maybe he's literally tired of life and wants to beat the game to have some real sense of achievement. Existential crisis? Lol.
Robot Pants
Member
Sarcasm right?
Lawrence essentially appearing in two places at once is weird, but it doesn't necessarily point to two timelines.
Anyway, I think he has the same family in Mexico in both instances. Mib has to travel to a Mexican town to find his family and later we find Outlaw leader Lawrence also cares about the Mexican side, so much so that he sabotages the nitro that was going to be used against Mexicans. So why not a family in Mexico for both? For that matter, why not an outlaw boss in both?
But what about mib, if he is William and he's been to the maze with Dolores 30 years ago, why is he chasing snake ladies around in the present? Presumably he can take a few shortcuts, but no, he has to start all the way back at the casino croupier.
Careful, Eva Green.
The "Evan Rachel Wood for Spirit Animal" campaign is quickly gaining momentum in my heart.
On a side note, I think I'm done hard speculating. The story will come as it comes, and it's more enjoyable to experience the show in the moment than to remain constantly vigilant for fourth dimensional jigsaw pieces.
The "Evan Rachel Wood for Spirit Animal" campaign is quickly gaining momentum in my heart.
On a side note, I think I'm done hard speculating. The story will come as it comes, and it's more enjoyable to experience the show in the moment than to remain constantly vigilant for fourth dimensional jigsaw pieces.
The Right Deal
Banned
Have the people still pushing William=MiB explained the MiB's comments about cutting open a robot to look at all its mechanical parts when he first came to the park. I'm still on board with separate timelines but doesn't that pretty much debunk that particular theory?
There's like a dozen things that debunk it.
SwiftDeath
Member
Maybe William/MiB is losing his control over the park, potentially making this his last run through the park with all the special perks. That would explain his urgency after 35 years of trying/playing in the park
Well William's story about his first park adventure isn't done yet.
Maintenance
Member
He said "when this place started, I opened one of you up once" so it only tells us that he was at the park early on and that he opened up a host at some point to see the mechanical parts. It might simply not have happened yet.
god dammit
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The two timelines stuff is getting harder and harder to ignore, especially with the Lawrence stuff in this episode. Bare minimum Delores is retracing her steps alone as she remembers back to her time with William. That I'm fairly positive about.
The episode itself was awesome. I'm fully invested in all of the storylines at the moment, so they're doing something right.
The episode itself was awesome. I'm fully invested in all of the storylines at the moment, so they're doing something right.
Robot Pants
Member
This might help ya think otherwise.
Plus the fact Logan mentions "the incident" 30 years ago. William just can't be the Man in Black.
The ONLY thing I still don't get though is Lawrence and his dual role.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The El Lazo storyline doesn't need El Lazo to be there. As was pointed out in the first episode, one character can be missing or temporarily missing but the rest of it goes on without him. He's not necessarily part of a different loop "these days". When we first meet Lawrence, he's being hung for being a bad dude, and then when we get to the prison, the lawman points out that Lawrence is one of the most wanted men in the world.
The rules seem pretty clear cut to me. I'm not sure what you don't understand. They keep telling you time and time again, that you can get hurt, but you can't die (by a host's actions).
El Lazo is Lawrence. When El Lazo is with MiB, his criminal empire hums along without him. Notice how El Lazo was mysteriously unavailable to meet only until MiB killed him.
The Right Deal
Banned
I guess my main problem with that MiB line is I would expect the mechanical versions of Dolores and Lawrence to be a little less advanced or act a little different compared to their "modern" versions.
Robot Pants
Member
Wellp.
I have no idea what to believe
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
And here is a quote from episode 5 that answers that. "Your humanity is cost effective...and so is your suffering".
If we believe the premise that the William part of the storyline is a flashback through the eyes of Dolores, I think it's possible we don't see "mechanical" hosts because Dolores has no concept of such thing.
To her, everyone would be acting "normal" since - and this is me making assumptions - she has no concept of "normality". Or better yet, her "normality" is always relative to each iteration.
Logan didn't mention any incident 30 years ago. He mentioned specifically that the park was started by a partnership, and that right before the park opened, one of the partners killed himself. This caused a scandal which was covered up, and the park has been bleeding money and is ripe for a buy out.
The only mentions of the incident are by people clearly in the present.
- MiB says he has been coming to the park for 30 years
- The last critical failure was mentioned to be 30 years ago
- Arnold died 34 years ago
If we put everything together it would possibly look like this:
37 years ago - Ford and Arnold start Westworld together and they spend 3 years building the park and perfecting the tech
34 years ago - Arnold kills himself through some elaborate scheme and leaves hidden code behind with Dolores as a trigger to destroy the park
30 years ago - William and Logan visit the park as Delos executives looking to buyout the park which has been running for several years but running low on funding now
30 years ago - Arnold's code in Dolores activates for the first time leading her to William and Logan, and leading her to "the maze" which is Arnold's grand plan
30 years ago - William stops Dolores and saves the park when things go completely south, Delos buys it out
Today - William has been drawn back to the park again and again over the years looking for meaning behind what happened 30 years ago, while Arnold's code activates in Dolores again, things are coming full circle
You are making a lot of assumptions there:
For all we know the hosts are more mechanical inside, since we haven't seen anyone get gutted in Will's story, and the old host that Ford speaks to could be an even older version, one that never made it to the park because it was not humanlike enough.
Logan can be from Delos, the current owner from the park, who bought it off Ford.
Logan never mentions an incident 30 years ago.
We see Lawrence in two stories.
He literally tells william and Delores to call him Lawrence on the train.
I also think it's entirely possible there are multiple identical hosts in different areas of the park on different loops, so there might be 2 Lawrence's. This episode actually hinted at there maybe being a 2nd Delores host in the day of the dead parade. It may be that Ford saw that Delores encountered her identical host twin and that's part of why he pulled her out to check on her. She's off loop, suspects it has something to do with Arnold, and then her running into herself doesn't help anything so he pulled her to have a chat.
It's also clear they are able to do some sort of digital programming check, as william mentioned Delores talking to herself. I think the convos with Bernard and potentially in the hq may not always be physical conversations, but digital.
The knife is just a westworld standard issue knife you can pick at loadout. Means nothing.
Robot Pants
Member
This is what I meant.
Apparently Man in Black was there to witness Arnold dying, or stopped him from blowing up the whole place (have to hear the line again).
So if this is William's first time in the park, and Arnold has already killed himself, how can the Man in Black be there to intervene like he did?
ffejeromdiks
Banned
I watch with subtitles and Logan definitely didn't mention a 30 year gap or the incident.