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[XAL]

Unless we get some kind of explanation as to why bullets literally threw William backwards and left a giant welt on his chest, and why his brother in law was getting beat the fuck up by hosts, there's still a good chance these stories are asynchronous.

People that misbehave in the main town get throw in jail, they also don't get injured by bullets.

The further out you go the more consequences the guests have to bear, beatings in the criminal town is one of those things. Getting mild bruises from gun blasts is another.

It would stand to reason that the "war" setting on the edge of the park has the highest stakes the park has to offer.

So, I don't know why those things would indicate the mib=william theory.

Anyone want to try and explain this observation from the subreddit?

http://i.imgur.com/tWDnSfJ.jpg

Spoiler

William and Lawrence are missing from the scene in the second shot.

She's speaking with Arnold, or recalling something that changes her perception like with the fortune teller. She's basically disconnected from her surroundings.

I'm guessing viewing the maze emblem triggers something within her each time she sees it.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Anyone want to try and explain this observation from the subreddit?

http://i.imgur.com/tWDnSfJ.jpg

Spoiler

William and Lawrence are missing from the scene in the second shot.

I noticed that. Was wondering what's up. Same loop, different time?

 

[wesleyshark]

Unless we get some kind of explanation as to why bullets literally threw William backwards and left a giant welt on his chest, and why his brother in law was getting beat the fuck up by hosts, there's still a good chance these stories are asynchronous.

There's definitely something off.

 

[More_Badass]

People that misbehave in the main town get throw in jail, they also don't get injured by bullets.

The further out you go the more consequences the guests have to bear, beatings in the criminal town is one of those things. Getting mild bruises from gun blasts is another.

It would stand to reason that the "war" setting on the edge of the park has the highest stakes the park has to offer.

So, I don't know why those things would indicate the mib=william theory.

Wasn't William shot in Sweetwater? That's the main town

 

[wesleyshark]

Wasn't William shot in Sweetwater? That's the main town

Yep he was shot in the starting town. That shouldn't be happening in the present.

Edit: unless I have terrible memory haha

 

[XAL]

Wasn't William shot in Sweetwater? That's the main town

I'm guessing it was a warning shot by the park to show what's possible, either that or certain guests have more privileges in gunshot damage reduction.

The brother in law is shot many times and he has no effect like the man in black.

 

[Scrooged]

I'm calling it now. Dolores has been down this exact same path before. She's been through the maze. The one shot that sticks out to me is when she's on the train looking at the coffin...it cuts to a shot where William and Lawrence are magically gone. To me that means in one of her loops she got there on her own.

MiB = William is still on the table simply because we don't know how many times Dolores has been through her meta-loop.

 

[Garrett 2U]

She's speaking with Arnold, or recalling something that changes her perception like with the fortune teller. She's basically disconnected from her surroundings.

I'm guessing viewing the maze emblem triggers something within her each time she sees it.

Could be, but the way the moment is captured makes me think she is reenacting a past event.

At first she is standing in front of William and Lawrence, then the camera cuts and she says "I'm coming", then it cuts again and pans over the room to reveal she is all alone, swaying as the train moves.

I've never really bought into the two timeline theory until this scene.
In my opinion, that shows a pretty definite transition between two time periods.

I'm calling it now. Dolores has been down this exact same path before. She's been through the maze. The once shot that sticks out to me is when she's on the train looking at the coffin...it cuts to a shot where William and Lawrence are magically gone. To me that means in one of her loops she got there on her own.

MiB = William is still on the table simply because we don't know how many times Dolores has been through her meta-loop.

I agree

 

[More_Badass]

No they were out from the town.

No, they were still in town, it was the day after they got off the train. William was walking past the saloon where the other prostitute was outside

 

[XAL]

No, they were still in town, it was the day after they got off the train. William was walking past the saloon where the other prostitute was outside

my mistake, but the brother in law gets shot many times and there is zero effect on him

Maybe the first shot is indicative of what's possible, either that or guests have varying levels of protection. Kind of like the man in black.

Think cheat codes, ie: bullet invulnerability.

That and the man in black reminiscences of a time when he cut a host open and they were machines not biotech. Back before they were really human.

The hosts are of similar quality in both character arcs, so it can't be flashbacks. Also considering william hasn't done anything egregious violence wise yet.

 

[wesleyshark]

I'm calling it now. Dolores has been down this exact same path before. She's been through the maze. The one shot that sticks out to me is when she's on the train looking at the coffin...it cuts to a shot where William and Lawrence are magically gone. To me that means in one of her loops she got there on her own.

MiB = William is still on the table simply because we don't know how many times Dolores has been through her meta-loop.

Definitely seems like she's mixing up the present with the past

 

[shira]

Elsie best waifu

 

[TTG]

I'm calling it now. Dolores has been down this exact same path before. She's been through the maze. The one shot that sticks out to me is when she's on the train looking at the coffin...it cuts to a shot where William and Lawrence are magically gone. To me that means in one of her loops she got there on her own.

MiB = William is still on the table simply because we don't know how many times Dolores has been through her meta-loop.

Possibly, like I said earlier, Ford is definitely in on it. Much like other hosts have multiple story lines, Dolores may be involved with the maze.

Doesn't mean MiB is William.

Could be, but the way the moment is captured makes me think she is reenacting a past event.

At first she is standing in front of William and Lawrence, then the camera cuts and she says "I'm coming", then it cuts again and pans over the room to reveal she is all alone, swaying as the train moves.

Seeing herself in the parade in town could be a flashback, like when she saw herself get shot by the bandits. Or not!

 

[Makai]

He was getting beat up because the park is more dangerous the further out you go

 

[shira]

Can some describe the preview? Can't find it on the app.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8J3nTfR23g

WTF I don't know anything anymore

 

[duckroll]

This episode actually almost confirms that William is MiB. William and Logan must work for Delos, and this was before Delos bought the park wholesale. They have a stake in it at the moment, but the buyout happens after the incident. MiB says that Arnold almost destroyed the park, but he saved it. That's what we're going to see in the finale. Dolores was "activated" once before to trigger the endgame, but William stopped it. Now she's being activated again and she's retracing her steps alone, while remembering what happened with William.

 

[wesleyshark]

He was getting beat up because the park is more dangerous the further out you go

Still doesn't explain William getting shot in Sweetwater though

 

[kai3345]

thank fuck the william = mib theory is dead

its not tho

This episode actually almost confirms that William is MiB. William and Logan must work for Delos, and this was before Delos bought the park wholesale. They have a stake in it at the moment, but the buyout happens after the incident. MiB says that Arnold almost destroyed the park, but he saved it. That's what we're going to see in the finale. Dolores was "activated" once before to trigger the endgame, but William stopped it. Now she's being activated again and she's retracing her steps alone, while remembering what happened with William.

yup. this is what I think is what's going on too.

delores ran into the fortune teller and started hallucinating, and then the fortune teller was gone. then when she saw the maze symbol on the coffin william and lawrence were gone.

she's running a new loop, that's why the control room said she's acting like she's following a guest, but they don't know which guest she's following because there isn't one.

 

[Makai]

Still doesn't explain William getting shot in Sweetwater though

dude is a total wimp

 

[wesleyshark]

dude is a total wimp

Lol. I'm talking about the bullets. Bullets don't work like that against park visitors in the present.

 

[Scrooged]

Possibly, like I said earlier, Ford is definitely in on it. Much like other hosts have multiple story lines, Dolores may be involved with the maze.

Doesn't mean MiB is William.

Right, but they sure are making it ambiguous enough that we can't say for sure either way. And yeah, Ford knows exactly what is happening. This is totally going to be a Matrix Reloaded situation where she gets to the end of the maze and Ford is like "Hello Dolores, I've been waiting for you..."

 

[SwiftDeath]

My only theory after watching that episode is that it's not just lines of codes that Arnold placed in Delores beneath everything else. He successfully transmitted his enitre subconscious into her and that's how he "died", Ford may be aware of it and even spent the last 35 years keeping her active because of his respect for Arnold

That might be a common theory though

 

[Makai]

Lol. I'm talking about the bullets. Bullets don't work like that against park visitors in the present.

They aren't total pussies like William.

 

[TTG]

my mistake, but the brother in law gets shot many times and there is zero effect on him

Maybe the first shot is indicative of what's possible, either that or guests have varying levels of protection. Kind of like the man in black.

Think cheat codes, ie: bullet invulnerability.

That and the man in black reminiscences of a time when he cut a host open and they were machines not biotech. Back before they were really human.

The hosts are of similar quality in both character arcs, so it can't be flashbacks. Also considering william hasn't done anything egregious violence wise yet.

Or, simpler still, William falls because that's his psychosomatic reaction to being shot. First time in the park and all.

As to his brother in law being beaten, mib was tackled in a shootout a couple of episodes ago as well. There's not really a clear line on physical contact between guests and hosts.

 

[wesleyshark]

They aren't total pussies like William.

... Ok? Not sure what you're getting at here

 

[duckroll]

Btw did I miss something? According to imdb (which might not be accurate?) Tessa Thompson's character was supposed to appear in this week's episode. She's the only major recurring cast member who hasn't shown up yet. Didn't see her. Did they cut some scenes? She's supposed to be in all the remaining episode. Possibly the board representative?

 

[Rentahamster]

This episode actually almost confirms that William is MiB. William and Logan must work for Delos, and this was before Delos bought the park wholesale. They have a stake in it at the moment, but the buyout happens after the incident. MiB says that Arnold almost destroyed the park, but he saved it. That's what we're going to see in the finale. Dolores was "activated" once before to trigger the endgame, but William stopped it. Now she's being activated again and she's retracing her steps alone, while remembering what happened with William.

When Theresa and Ford were having a meeting in episode 4, Ford mentioned the representatives were already here. That wasn't referring to Logan and William?

 

[Makai]

Btw did I miss something? According to imdb (which might not be accurate?) Tessa Thompson's character was supposed to appear in this week's episode. She's the only major recurring cast member who hasn't shown up yet. Didn't see her. Did they cut some scenes? She's supposed to be in all the remaining episode. Possibly the board representative?

Fan-edited website

 

[duckroll]

When Theresa and Ford were having a meeting in episode 4, Ford mentioned the representatives were already here. That wasn't referring to Logan and William?

Maybe, maybe not. I think Logan and William were at the park... 30 years ago. Lol.

Fan-edited website

The casting is real though. She just hasn't shown up yet.

http://deadline.com/2015/09/westworld-tessa-thompson-cast-hbo-1201533978/

"Thompson will play Charlotte Hale, a mysterious and savvy provocateur with a unique perspective on Westworld."

 

[Flo_Evans]

Yep he was shot in the starting town. That shouldn't be happening in the present.

Why is that? Says who?

There are different teirs and loadouts you can choose. William was suprised and reacted like a good role player and fell down when shot lol.

There is really nothing to suggest a secret twist different timelines. Every flashback has a clear edit style. The show has already established a pretty clear timeline of what is going on.

William and Mib have nothing in common, he wants to get off the ride and mib wants to go deeper. I mean come on.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

I wonder who implanted that transmitter into the woodcutter. Probably a company that wants to take over since it seems things are not going well at Delos...

 

[Makai]

What really clinched MIB = William for me was Logan saying "you came into that meeting...with your....black...suit"

like come on >:U

 

[FStop7]

Anthony Hopkins dressed as colonel sanders, sitting in front of a wall of CRT screens, saying "ergo" a lot.

 

[Makai]

Thompson will play Charlotte Hale, a mysterious and savvy provocateur with a unique hbologoperspective on Westworld."

haha. I thought this was some sort of blogosphere pun

 

[duckroll]

I wonder who implanted that transmitter into the woodcutter. Probably a company that wants to take over since it seems things are not going well at Delos...

Is everyone at Westworld a Delos employee? Or is there a split. Does Ford run Behavioral independently while Delos runs QA? It could simply be one side subverting the other side.

haha. I thought this was some sort of blogosphere pun

LOL. That copy paste... fixed.

 

[icespide]

every week: well that kills the Will = MiB theory. Actually it doesn't

 

[Austriacus]

My favorite pastime after an episode is go to the internet and see all the people who spell Dolores in really weird ways. Its a really apt name for her as well, her existence is pure suffering.

 

[wesleyshark]

Why is that? Says who?

There are different teirs and loadouts you can choose. William was suprised and reacted like a good role player and fell down when shot lol.

There is really nothing to suggest a secret twist different timelines. Every flashback has a clear edit style. The show has already established a pretty clear timeline of what is going on.

William and Mib have nothing in common, he wants to get off the ride and mib wants to go deeper. I mean come on.

- He was actually shot with a projectile iirc. That wasn't a roleplay.

- William is on a journey that is only just beginning.

 

[Rentahamster]

Hosts being able to hurt guests definitely makes this seem like an earlier era of the park, because they were made safer

In episode 4, Slim shoots Logan and nothing happens to Logan.

 

[Flo_Evans]

This episode actually almost confirms that William is MiB. William and Logan must work for Delos, and this was before Delos bought the park wholesale. They have a stake in it at the moment, but the buyout happens after the incident. MiB says that Arnold almost destroyed the park, but he saved it. That's what we're going to see in the finale. Dolores was "activated" once before to trigger the endgame, but William stopped it. Now she's being activated again and she's retracing her steps alone, while remembering what happened with William.

I guess if you just want to ignore all the scenes with William when Delores isn't even there!

 

[XAL]

In episode 4, Slim shoots Logan and nothing happens to Logan.

People just want to cherry pick stuff to support their theory.

William was hurt! It's an earlier era of the park!

Brother in law gets shot multiple times with zero effect....

Yeahhhhhhhh oookay

 

[wesleyshark]

every week: well that kills the Will = MiB theory. Actually it doesn't

Hahaha

 

[Makai]

... Ok? Not sure what you're getting at here

This is William:

https://vine.co/v/bYvvXH2YYQt

 

[duckroll]

It seems really unlikely at this point that William and Logan are in a current Westworld storyline. Why would the El Lazo storyline trigger if Lawrence was still with MiB? Even if we assume that they managed to put him back in service really quickly after he was killed. When MiB first caught him, he was at the gallows, and he has a family in another town. It seems he's part of some other loop these days after being a crime boss in Pariah during this Confederate Army storyline. In fact, in the new Ford storyline, isn't Wyatt and Teddy both from the Confederate Army during the war? It seems like it could be a sequel to that old storyline.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

My favorite pastime after an episode is go to the internet and see all the people who spell Dolores in really weird ways. Its a really apt name for her as well, her existence is pure suffering.

I always cringe when I see it spelled as "Delores".

 

[Talka]

If the show doesn't start explaining itself soon, I think I'm done.

There's a difference between mysterious and obtuse.

I care about the mystery of the park's history. I care about the mystery of Dolores' connection to Arnold. I care about the mystery of Ford's new storyline.

But I have zero patience for not understanding the rules of the show. When I don't know the rules of a show or the universe in which it operates, I have no reason to care about its inhabitants, or the risks they face. Are Logan and William in any real danger? I don't know. And I don't care.

It's not mysterious when Logan is choked and beaten. It's annoying, because I don't understand the implications, or the stakes.

I might step away and try this show again in a year or two, if the critical reaction is still positive. Right now I have no reason to believe the show's universe is thoughtfully constructed or internally logical.

 

[wesleyshark]

It seems really unlikely at this point that William and Logan are in a current Westworld storyline. Why would the El Lazo storyline trigger if Lawrence was still with MiB? Even if we assume that they managed to put him back in service really quickly after he was killed. When MiB first caught him, he was at the gallows, and he has a family in another town. It seems he's part of some other loop these days after being a crime boss in Pariah during this Confederate Army storyline. In fact, in the new Ford storyline, isn't Wyatt and Teddy both from the Confederate Army during the war? It seems like it could be a sequel to that old storyline.

That would be some really fast repair, to then put him into an entirely different story loop and in a different town altogether.

The reveal of him being El Lazo... that's a seemingly pretty big hint that we are seeing two different eras of the park. How long between those eras? Can't say. But William, Logan and El Lazo sure seem to not be in the same timeline as MiB and Lawrence.

 

[Flo_Evans]

It seems really unlikely at this point that William and Logan are in a current Westworld storyline. Why would the El Lazo storyline trigger if Lawrence was still with MiB? Even if we assume that they managed to put him back in service really quickly after he was killed. When MiB first caught him, he was at the gallows, and he has a family in another town. It seems he's part of some other loop these days after being a crime boss in Pariah during this Confederate Army storyline. In fact, in the new Ford storyline, isn't Wyatt and Teddy both from the Confederate Army during the war? It seems like it could be a sequel to that old storyline.

They make references all the time to quickly getting the bots back in service. They even say he can meet you the next day...

And no Wyatt and teddy are union.

 

[Scrooged]

Anthony Hopkins dressed as colonel sanders, sitting in front of a wall of CRT screens, saying "ergo" a lot.

If only. At least we have Will Ferrell.
https://youtu.be/S-kTfBXCP88?t=6m2s

If the show doesn't start explaining itself soon, I think I'm done.

There's a difference between mysterious and obtuse.

I care about the mystery of the park's history. I care about the mystery of Dolores' connection to Arnold. I care about the mystery of Ford's new storyline.

But I have zero patience for not understanding the rules of the show. When I don't know the rules of a show or the universe in which it operates, I have no reason to care about its inhabitants, or the risks they face. Are Logan and William in any real danger? I don't know. And I don't care.

It's not mysterious when Logan is choked and beaten. It's annoying, because I don't understand the implications, or the stakes.

I might step away and try this show again in a year or two, if the critical reaction is still positive. Right now I have no reason to believe the show's universe is thoughtfully constructed or internally logical.

I think the rules have been straightforward for the most part. Of course they're not in real danger. And we know that the storylines get into Hard mode when you get further away from Sweetwater. When Logan is getting punched he doesn't bleed. The hosts are programmed to rough you up a bit, but not do any real damage. It's about making you feel like you're in danger.

 

[Flo_Evans]

If the show doesn't start explaining itself soon, I think I'm done.

There's a difference between mysterious and obtuse.

I care about the mystery of the park's history. I care about the mystery of Dolores' connection to Arnold. I care about the mystery of Ford's new storyline.

But I have zero patience for not understanding the rules of the show. When I don't know the rules of a show or the universe in which it operates, I have no reason to care about its inhabitants, or the risks they face. Are Logan and William in any real danger? I don't know. And I don't care.

It's not mysterious when Logan is choked and beaten. It's annoying, because I don't understand the implications, or the stakes.

I might step away and try this show again in a year or two, if the critical reaction is still positive. Right now I have no reason to believe the show's universe is thoughtfully constructed or internally logical.

The stakes are pretty clear, he failed to activate the next level of the quest. He is not going to die, he just didn't get the achievement for "warrior".