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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

UltraJay

Member
Is anyone having an issue accessing HBO Now? Clicking the button to login does nothing. Clicking the button to reset password does nothing. I'm accessing from Australia, but nothing changes when I switch from Smart DNS to a full VPN (where even Netflix US works) so I don't believe I'm getting blocked.

Are there any issues with the site that people are having?
 

bounchfx

Member
that episode was fantastic

but yo seriously in how many 'next episode' previews are they gonna use the shot of dolores running away on horseback shooting towards the camera. that's what, three episodes they've teased it for and it's still yet to happen? watch it be in the finale XD
 

CaramelMarx

Neo Member
I think Arnold, back during the war over the fate of the hosts thirty five years before the show starts, designed the androids with the Bicameral Mind theory as a framework - and as himself as the voice of god. It would explain a lot, if you think about it! Then again, for all I know I'm a damn android.
 
That line made me want to clap. The people who say they can't care for the robot characters are crazy.
They was a great line.

I enjoy the mystery of the maze and the back and forth about whether William is the MiB but what pulls me into this show are the characters themselves.

That damsel line by Dolores was fantastic. She's breaking free of her constraints, one bit of code at a time. It's fascinating, watching the evolution of the hosts as they realize that something isn't right about their world and who they really are.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
"Are we very good friends?"

"No, I wouldn't say friends, Delores. I wouldn't say that at all."

I have a feeling that response is going to come back to bite him later on...
 
Logan didn't mention any incident 30 years ago. He mentioned specifically that the park was started by a partnership, and that right before the park opened, one of the partners killed himself. This caused a scandal which was covered up, and the park has been bleeding money and is ripe for a buy out.

The only mentions of the incident are by people clearly in the present.
- MiB says he has been coming to the park for 30 years
- The last critical failure was mentioned to be 30 years ago
- Arnold died 34 years ago

If we put everything together it would possibly look like this:

37 years ago - Ford and Arnold start Westworld together and they spend 3 years building the park and perfecting the tech

34 years ago - Arnold kills himself through some elaborate scheme and leaves hidden code behind with Dolores as a trigger to destroy the park

30 years ago - William and Logan visit the park as Delos executives looking to buyout the park which has been running for several years but running low on funding now

30 years ago - Arnold's code in Dolores activates for the first time leading her to William and Logan, and leading her to "the maze" which is Arnold's grand plan

30 years ago - William stops Dolores and saves the park when things go completely south, Delos buys it out

Today - William has been drawn back to the park again and again over the years looking for meaning behind what happened 30 years ago, while Arnold's code activates in Dolores again, things are coming full circle

I think this is pretty much it. At least the most logical based on everything we've seen so far.

With robots becoming more sentient in the present day, we're pretty much seeing the downfall of the park.

Also something seems very off about Ford...at this point I wouldnt be surprise if he was a robot version of Arnold gone bad (Tron) lol
 

shira

Member
Actually, call me crazy, but I thought I saw a smile on Logan's face right after he saw William take off.

He did
smile.gif
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Actually, call me crazy, but I thought I saw a smile on Logan's face right after he saw William take off.

I saw it too. He almost looked pleased. Like "Finally this dude is letting loose."

It's interesting that the hosts are getting rougher as they travel further away from Sweetwater. I see the appeal for Westworld veterans. Fuck the tourist shit, I wanna get down into the dirt and come out a little bloody.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I saw it too. He almost looked pleased. Like "Finally this dude is letting loose."

It's interesting that the hosts are getting rougher as they travel further away from Sweetwater. I see the appeal for Westworld veterans. Fuck the tourist shit, I wanna get down into the dirt and come out a little bloody.

Yeah, I was surprised that they punched, choked and beat the shit out off Logan.

I do wonder how far that Host was allowed to choke him, though. It seemed like it almost killed him, would it have stopped before that happened and let him get the upper hand?
 
Logan didn't mention any incident 30 years ago. He mentioned specifically that the park was started by a partnership, and that right before the park opened, one of the partners killed himself. This caused a scandal which was covered up, and the park has been bleeding money and is ripe for a buy out.

The only mentions of the incident are by people clearly in the present.
- MiB says he has been coming to the park for 30 years
- The last critical failure was mentioned to be 30 years ago
- Arnold died 34 years ago

If we put everything together it would possibly look like this:

37 years ago - Ford and Arnold start Westworld together and they spend 3 years building the park and perfecting the tech

34 years ago - Arnold kills himself through some elaborate scheme and leaves hidden code behind with Dolores as a trigger to destroy the park

30 years ago - William and Logan visit the park as Delos executives looking to buyout the park which has been running for several years but running low on funding now

30 years ago - Arnold's code in Dolores activates for the first time leading her to William and Logan, and leading her to "the maze" which is Arnold's grand plan

30 years ago - William stops Dolores and saves the park when things go completely south, Delos buys it out

Today - William has been drawn back to the park again and again over the years looking for meaning behind what happened 30 years ago, while Arnold's code activates in Dolores again, things are coming full circle

Delores (and all the the Hosts) are way too life like for this to be 30 years ago when the park just opened. Compare them to the whiskey sipper Ford likes to talk to. Delores basically acts/moves/interacts the exact same in both the past and present. So either Logan and William takes place a bit closer to present or they forgot about that (which I don't think they would have considering they make sure whiskey guy is noticeable more anamotronic than present day hosts)
 

Arkanius

Member
I'm now convinced that MiB = William

The whole Delos buyout talk and Lawrence being in two completely roles (And why MiB takes specific interest in him) were the things that jumped to me.

Some things still don't make sense but I'm 80% on in the different timelines scenario.
 
Reading this thread and people think there are different time lines wtf? I thought this was all current day. No reason to think other wise
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Dolores's whole character progression would feel really dumb if there were two timelines. Are we to assume that her whole journey will lead to nowhere, at least in her personal progression, because she will just end up being that girl who drops her can for the next 30 years?
 

Gnome

Member
Different timelines? Lawrence was killed by MIB then it was the next day before Lawrence showed up in Dolores' story. Unless we're suddenly ignoring editing chronology.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Ok so they were definitely fucking with us in this ep.

We see Lawrence get his throat slit by the MiB but then a few scenes later he's inhabiting the role of the gang leader in Pariah. This is more evidence for those of us considering the theory that the stuff with William and Logan is happening in the past.

BUT!

Only a few scenes ago we saw that Sweetwater brothel madam get sent back down in the time it took for those dudes to have their break, which suggests that they could easily have taken Lawrence in after his throat got slit and chucked him out in the new role in Pariah.

So we're back to square one, might be all happening at the same time, might not be.
 

duckroll

Member
Delores (and all the the Hosts) are way too life like for this to be 30 years ago when the park just opened. Compare them to the whiskey sipper Ford likes to talk to. Delores basically acts/moves/interacts the exact same in both the past and present. So either Logan and William takes place a bit closer to present or they forgot about that (which I don't think they would have considering they make sure whiskey guy is noticeable more anamotronic than present day hosts)

According to Ford, whiskey guy (Old Bill) is the second host they ever built. Ever. Which means he was made 3 years before the park ever opened. Later on Ford mentions that their hosts began to past the Turing Test after the first year. Ford mentions that in Old Bill's time they broke down constantly, repeated themselves, and so on. That doesn't sound like something that would pass the Turing Test. This week Old Bill couldn't even reply to simple questions without being completely out of context.

I don't think it is very likely that the hosts would be like Old Bill by the time the park opened.

By the way. HER NAME IS DOLORES. Lol.

Dolores's whole character progression would feel really dumb if there were two timelines. Are we to assume that her whole journey will lead to nowhere, at least in her personal progression, because she will just end up being that girl who drops her can for the next 30 years?

Yes? I mean the story arc would basically be that she failed in her mission 30 years ago, got wiped hard, and settled back into safe loops until these memories started surfacing again 30 years later.

Teddy didn't die in this epidose :eek:

Technically Teddy hasn't died since episode 2. In episode 3 he is captured by Wyatt's people, in episode 4 he was found half dead by MiB, and this week MiB nurses him back to health. He's still running in a single ongoing loop since he went into the mountains!
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Yes? I mean the story arc would basically be that she failed in her mission 30 years ago, got wiped hard, and settled back into safe loops until these memories started surfacing again 30 years later.

That would be incredibly boring.
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Delores (and all the the Hosts) are way too life like for this to be 30 years ago when the park just opened. Compare them to the whiskey sipper Ford likes to talk to. Delores basically acts/moves/interacts the exact same in both the past and present. So either Logan and William takes place a bit closer to present or they forgot about that (which I don't think they would have considering they make sure whiskey guy is noticeable more anamotronic than present day hosts)
Whiskey bot is the second host they built, but that doesn't mean he was ever part of the park at launch. He could just be a prototype relic Ford keeps stored for nostalgia. They spent 3 years beta testing before launch and made improvements before launch. There's at least 2 bots shown in the beta test flashback that are still operational some ~30 years later and 1 bot who is operational 5 or 30 years later depending on the asynchronous timeline theory being true or not, neither of them are as primitive as Whiskey bot.

Abernathy
w8xpEla.png


Armistice
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Guest intake bot
yb9n3zvb4zrx.png
 

duckroll

Member
I have a good feeling that one of the "shocking" reveals in the later episodes will be when William kills and disassembles a host after he goes all in on it, and we see the mechanical bits inside. That'll confirm it once and for all.
 
What is the cost difference between the older metal endoskeleton robots and the current 3D printed fleshbots? Apparently, the fleshbots are cheaper to make, though I curious to know how.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Ok so they were definitely fucking with us in this ep.

We see Lawrence get his throat slit by the MiB but then a few scenes later he's inhabiting the role of the gang leader in Pariah. This is more evidence for those of us considering the theory that the stuff with William and Logan is happening in the past.

BUT!

Only a few scenes ago we saw that Sweetwater brothel madam get sent back down in the time it took for those dudes to have their break, which suggests that they could easily have taken Lawrence in after his throat got slit and chucked him out in the new role in Pariah.

So we're back to square one, might be all happening at the same time, might not be.
That wasn't a new role. He is that dude. He died, and then respawned.
 

Pooya

Member
Arnold has become some omnipresent computer conscious and he's doing the data smuggling thing. It's going to turn into Person of Interest stuff.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What is the cost difference between the older metal endoskeleton robots and the current 3D printed fleshbots? Apparently, the fleshbots are cheaper to make, though I curious to know how.

I think we just have to take them at their word that they are. Advances in organic 3D printing, can grow parts instead of manufacture them, no need for expensive metallic materials, etc.
 

duckroll

Member
By the way, for those curious about how the "older" hosts were previously designed internally, this scene might be interesting, but it's a scene in a promo video which hasn't happened yet so if you consider that a spoiler DON'T click: https://youtu.be/SKTbFwyLuuM?t=147

What is the cost difference between the older metal endoskeleton robots and the current 3D printed fleshbots? Apparently, the fleshbots are cheaper to make, though I curious to know how.

I'm guessing technology has reached a point where it is cheaper to prefab organic parts with self healing properties rather than to bother with maintenance of complicated mechanical parts. Moving parts are always a pain to maintain.

Arnold has become some omnipresent computer conscious and he's doing the data smuggling thing. It's going to turn into Person of Interest stuff.

Arnold is SHODAN?
 
I feel like the show is actually really straightforward but people seem to have gotten this conception that it's way more complex than it actually is.

I concur with this assessment. People here read way too much into it. The whole Lawrence thing can be explained perfectly for example. Even when he was with MiB one of the Marshalls called him the most wanted man in 3 territories. And Logan and William being representatives from Delos looking to buy the park could potentially also be debunked if you think about the fact that the board members in the Ford "timeline" seem to be nervous all the time. Why would they be if the park did gangbusters. The easier answer is that the park is not in good shape and Logan is looking to buy a stake.


that black guy's dick was ginormous

Also fake, probably
 

Nodnol

Member
Will catch up tonight when I get home.

I'm trying to get my head around something: Dolores freaks out in the barn when Trevor is attempting to rape her, but she seemingly remembers the MiB coming at her instead, prompting her to shoot Trevor. It's depicted that her remembering a previous loop with the MiB mentally scarred her, which results in her breaking her programming (the woodcutter was the only one in his group authorized to use the axe; when Dolores is attempting to shoot the pistol with Teddy, she can't, likely because of her programming and authorization).

She then runs away from the farm and stumbles across William and Logan.

So how can her remembering the MiB lead to her fighting her programming, killing a host, and then running into William?

To make this even more confusing, she remembers being shot in the gut, preempts the confrontation and runs away.

So there's atleast 3 timelines, or loops, depicted here. What's confusing, is IF MiB is William, then why would Dolores remember the MiB during events that lead to her meeting William? The answer is obviously that her entire narrative is incredibly muddled, with the timelines being blurred from scene to scene, but it doesn't feel very neat.

The normal loop must be;

Dolores with Teddy = She is fine.
Dolores without Teddy = She is taken to the barn.

So the MiB taking her to the barn is a weird echo on what her normal "bad ending" loop must be. Her confrontation with a player hungry for the meta experience probably helped set her on this path.

In a later loop, without Teddy, she's attacked again, only this time fights back. This echoes the last time, if the theory is right, she fought back, 30 years ago when she broke her programming before, and ended up meeting William.

I have no doubt, that if it's a split timeline or not, that Arnold is responsible for both instances. In the modern timeline, I hark back to my previous idea that's Ford is conspiring to help fulfill Arnold'a vision after growing resentful of Delos.
 
that was a pretty episode :>

i like the interaction between ford and mib

and i like dolores' new outfit

william and logan's relationship is also becoming more pronounced in a convincing way.
 

Nodnol

Member
Oh jeez...I just read an idea that Bernard is a clone of Arnold.

So any conversation between him and Dolores, or him in isolation, could be Arnold and Dolores, or Arnold and his wife. Mindfuck or paranoia?
 

SickBoy

Member
I'm certainly open to the idea that these are two different timelines... but while it will please the people who are all in on the theory, I wonder whether the payoff would justify the style they've used to tell the story (i.e.: if this isn't all happening "now," the show seems to have been designed to suggest it is).

I thought the previous episode was excellent. I was a bit less into this one, but the show still has my attention. Still not in love, yet... but I'm OK with a show taking a while to win me over.
 

Arkeband

Banned
The implied malice toward Dolores by Robert makes me think that Dolores was involved with his death, so she took Arnold away from Robert and he holds a grudge against her, even though he knows that's a pointless gesture. But it almost feels like he's not just his business partner but also romantically?

After thinking about last night's episode, they need to dramatically clear things up because there is basically no mystery other than "what's in the maze" which is another JJ Abrams Mystery Box goof that no one sane should care about. It just seems like episode after episode of random stuff happening without giving the viewer any idea of the stakes involved.

At this point I'm just expecting the last episode to have Ford tear off his face and reveal a Terminator head and scream into the camera "I'M AHHHNULD"
 
If it is two timelines the presentation is a big problem. We have seen frequent scenes of William and MiB that aren't through the eyes of Dolores. So we aren't seeing flashbacks through her eyes, she was nowhere around William for his preparation to enter WW for instance. To be two timelines without clearly telling the viewer or providing a reason for the deception would be highly problematic from a story telling point of view.
 
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