Well some other tech literally fucked dead hosts before repairing them and he hasn't been fired yet either. Delos is a shitty company!
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Well some other tech literally fucked dead hosts before repairing them and he hasn't been fired yet either. Delos is a shitty company!
bggrthnjsus
Member
also i still don't buy the mib = william theory
dolores is having hallucinations of arnold's voice, in william's timeline, implying he's 'dead' in william's timeline. logan also mentions somebody who sounds like arnold. the man in black says that arnold died around when the park opened, and that he played a role in helping it open.
Robot Pants
Member
That's interesting
I want to believe the purpose of them is to reveal that they're robots and the fixing of the bird is an attempt to break one's routine. The bickering is to make them seem more human.
Not sure. IMDB says episode 9.
We've seen no evidence either way yet. No host has been opened up yet infront of William in that timeline. The only wounds we've seen are bullet holes, not enough to really see the insides. Bets that this will be a revelation later in the show.
Except we haven't, we've seen Ford with Dolores never with William. There's no confirmation of it being in the present or past yet.
No it makes more sense that it's a flashback when he was apart of a different attraction. Fixing the host and putting him in a whole new role coincidentally seems a bigger stretch than different time lines.
No Dolores is headed for the confrontation with the MiB, William isn't there. Watch the shot with her in the train, she's alone reliving the past and making the journey solo.
BarringGaffner
Member
Only issue I had was with the new town/orgy place. Ford refused the 'red river canyon' story but we're supposed to believe he was fine with this over the top fantasy land?
More_Badass
Member
Lawrence being a feared gang leader in the past would make sense with his current narrative being an infamous outlaw
Raven117
Member
Its entertaining that's for sure, but it has seemed to have moved passed the more thoughtful and philosophical questions of humans relationship to violence, sex, and reality in general.
Which is a shame...Maybe we will get there in the last 5 episodes.
Regardless, its a great show.
I think the (at least) two timelines makes sense. William/Delores are the past....MIB present.
William was never meant to buy into the simple pleasures of the game, so the game had to give him a "meta" game to play. IE an acknowledgement that the game is indeed a game or something deeper going on. So Delores, fulfills that role..."almost human" looking for her own maze...etc.....In the end, I think William gets toasted by Delores revelaing that indeed it was a game all along. Hence why his counter-part MIB, can kill without remorse as he knows its all a game.
I think William and Logan are the early "money men" who "SAVE" the park after the androids rise up. (who knows...maybe).
William still believes the maze exists.
I can't recall exactly but MiB has also commented on Lawrence's past and being a different man.
My interpretation is that was not a literal shot. To me that was implying she was kind of in her head about the maze stuff and not really aware of her surroundings at that instant. Not that she was literally alone.
You need to think more 4-dimensionally. This is Jonathan Nolan we're talking about here.
More_Badass
Member
Also the whole "mysterious character finally reveals face, and the camera lingers as if the reveal was an important detail" makes more sense if it was insinuating something more than just the park cleaning up and moving Lawrence around, which we've seen and been told about before so it wouldn't even warrant a reveal like that
But we know that the early versions of the hosts (i.e. Old Bill) had jerky robotic-like movement. Most likely this was not solved until they moved to the flesh-like 3d printing technology currently in use.
Previously the excuse for the robots of the past not looking/acting rudimentary was that the park has been open for significantly longer than 30 years, and that Ford could be 120 years old at this point, or more!
Now we know that the park is in fact 34 years old, give or take a year. They can't have had perfectly lifelike hosts since the beginning.
We've heard from the techs that are tracking her that's she's following a guest. When they asked which guest she was following they said they didn't know. Why wouldn't they know? Well because the guest doesn't exist and she's doing the journey herself.
All we know is what they've shown us. Just because we know the machines were more rudimentary doesn't mean we know the timeline of when are where the models were upgraded. There's also the possibility of a unreliable narrator, but I don't think so personally.
- Just because Old Bill is primitive doesn't mean the mechanical hosts that followed were similarly as primitive as well. They beta tested for 3 years before launch and didn't pass the Turing test till after the first year of it. And we have seen a host that we know was mechanical interact with William, his intake host was part of the beta group.
- Dolores is an unreliable narrator, she has lost the ability to discern past from present. We've seen this in action; the gun appearing and disappearing, seeing flashes of the MiB in the Barn when the host drags her there, reliving a previous loop to avoid getting shot by another host, lawrences daughter appearing and disappearing, seeing the other Dolores in the day of the dead parade/bath house, traveling with William and Lawrence one second and then traveling alone.
What if searching for the maze in present time has triggered a loop of her first encounter with the maze? If William/Logan are just a distant memory she's reliving she would be able to communicate with present day Ford while personally "seeing" W&L.
- Doesnt prove or disprove anything. And I can just as easily ask why they are purposefully avoiding and being vague about things that would kill the theory. William and Logan not interacting with any of the human staff or specific host (lawrences family, Hectors bounty poster, Maeve), MiB remaining nameless 5 episodes in, the old logo missing from the current branding in the park except from cold storage.
- Dolores and the MiB are headed towards a confrontation at the maze. Whether William is actually there will either kill or prove the theory right.
This thread is driving me crazy
Yeah sorry never realized it was dolores and Delores is much easier to type because d and e are next to each other and now I've gotten used to typing Delores not dolores.
This thread is driving me crazy
DELORAS = DELOS
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
30 years ago Arnold merged with Helios
book it
book it
There are things that suggest a flashback timeline and also things that don't make sense if it were to be a flashback timeline.
The main problem I have at this point is just why?
Why have virtually the same plot line happening in 2 different timelines.
The payoff is that mib = william? I couldn't care less. Who gives a shit. It basically ruins all of the character development between william and dolores because mib in his current timeline honestly doesn't seem to give much of a shit about dolores. He has basically had 0 on screen time with her. If the current narrative is about mib and dolores, then the show should focus on that instead of doing all this backstory that will essentially amount to nothing because we know the park has gotten past the crisis and that dolores went back into her regular loop for a long ass time.
Why do we give a fuck if this all almost happened in the past with dolores? I want to see it happen in the current timeline because then we at least don't know that her bid for sentience isnt already doomed to failure at least for x amount of years.
The main problem I have at this point is just why?
Why have virtually the same plot line happening in 2 different timelines.
The payoff is that mib = william? I couldn't care less. Who gives a shit. It basically ruins all of the character development between william and dolores because mib in his current timeline honestly doesn't seem to give much of a shit about dolores. He has basically had 0 on screen time with her. If the current narrative is about mib and dolores, then the show should focus on that instead of doing all this backstory that will essentially amount to nothing because we know the park has gotten past the crisis and that dolores went back into her regular loop for a long ass time.
Why do we give a fuck if this all almost happened in the past with dolores? I want to see it happen in the current timeline because then we at least don't know that her bid for sentience isnt already doomed to failure at least for x amount of years.
afternoon delight
Member
I'm going to steal this description for future use. I know I'm here for the x-rated western fun but I had admittedly high expectations for the man who helped make Memento and The Prestige.
Watching her make the journey in silence alone would be pretty boring, the past timeline actually shows use the events that made her take the journey in the first place.
The Right Deal
Banned
William=MiB is in play for me, but if it's the case I hope it's revealed sooner rather than later. The amount of hoops the show has had to jump through to hide a twist that people have been talking about since episode 2 is a bummer, and the the hoops are only going to get bigger the longer they drag it out.
I'm still against it because I think the show is smarter then this, but I'll take the Angels in the Outfield approach.
I'm still against it because I think the show is smarter then this, but I'll take the Angels in the Outfield approach.
Right, then have her make the journey with guests in the current timeline, which is most likely what's actually happening with william and Logan if we brush aside all this speculative timeline nonsense.
The point I'm making is that it doesn't make sense to have the past timeline at all. We already essentially know the conclusion. Why do we care that dolores has already explored these ideas once before but ultimately failed and was locked back into a loop?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
MIB speculation based on the new trailer, but I think that
the MIB is dying in real life. He mentioned earlier that "this time, he's not going back" and he says that "The maze is all that matters" so he's trying to solve one last mystery/quest that has meaningful stakes before he kicks the bucket.
We don't know the conclusion. We know it was stopped but we don't know how or why. We need to know that in order to know what MiB and Dolores are doing differently the second time around once they reach the end.
Because ultimately the season is about both the origin of Westworld and the end of it. It's about going full circle.
Lol too true
They don't need a simultaneous flashback timeline to explore the origins of westworld. They are doing a fine enough job with actual flashbacks and stories of the origins, conversations with animatronic hosts, etc. I don't need to know about an almost failure of the park through a flashback timeline disguised as the present. They can just do an actual flashback detailing more on Arnold and what happened.
It's an unecessary fabricated twist device that actually just hurts the narrative progression and will knock the show down several pegs for me if it turns out to be true.
And the worst part is it's a twist that would have basically 0 impact because I don't see how they will execute this where anyone will really care that william = mib, and even worse everyone has already speculated the shit out of it to the point it's hardly a twist (ie, it's a predictable, drawn out 6 episode useless fucking twist).
Saucycarpdog
Member
Isn't the MiB=William theory kinda crushed now? I'm not 100% sure but I coulda swore Ford said the MiBs name and it wasn't William.
The same can be said of most twist devices. Anything designed to trick the viewer to get a "oooooh" reaction tends to be kinda cheap. But writers like to use them anyway, and fans love dissecting stuff so I guess it's just part of modern TV these days. Thank Lost for it.
wesleyshark
Banned
Thank youThis thread is driving me crazy
Corpsepyre
Banned
Fuckkkk, this show. IT'S SO GOOD!
wesleyshark
Banned
Ford never said MiB's name. MiB did say Ford's name though.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
There are key occurrences that will make the show easier to follow once explained. Chief among them is the "Deep and Dreamless Slumber" command, that ironically sets the hosts for the "dream" interviews. The sequence of scenes intentionally obfuscates them so you don't know whether: they happen in real life, or as someone else mentioned it's VR, does the command and interview happen in succession, or are we seeing them out of order.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Oh, well then, the theory lives on.
No pyrotechnics without the approval of the operations center.
Who who planted the satellite transmitter in that one host and for what purpose?
It would be hilarious if it turns out there's a rival park with a Justin Hammer-esque owner who is secretly trying to steal Westworld's tech.
Who who planted the satellite transmitter in that one host and for what purpose?
It would be hilarious if it turns out there's a rival park with a Justin Hammer-esque owner who is secretly trying to steal Westworld's tech.
TimeEffect
Member
So was that penis real or what
I doubt it's the real thing. There's probably explosives there, but only will be triggered by the park staff if it's safe to do so.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I got that vibe as well, it makes sense and adds extra urgency as to why he would want to find the Maze and free Dolores once and for all. Westworld and Dolores helped William break free from being the pawn Logan makes it clear he is, and he's trying to return the favor.
I don't understand this "hollow" or "empty calories" talk, so far the writing has been mostly excellent. Regarding mysteries and plot twists, it's nearly impossible to write one that makes any sense and not have random persons guess correctly what's going to happen - there are millions viewers and thousand of people on the internet that share their thoughts and observations and eventually figure out the puzzle in an collective effort
Captain Zyrain
Member
Crazy episode.. liked it a lot.
Just when you think they're gonna kill the MiB=William theory.. they give it new life, but just enough to keep it plausible while also making it entirely plausible that it's not true.
Lawrence could easily have been cleaned up and put in place as El Lazo, he even says "my name is Lawrence" a little while into the episode. That could be the 'start' of his loop, he tricks the Confederatos and maybe something goes south so he's on the run, eventually getting captured and hung as we saw him when the MiB "rescued" him. This makes sense.
However, Lawrence could also be El Lazo in the past, (or both, I suppose). With no real indicator of "elapsed time" between Lawrence getting bled out by MiB & meeting William & Logan.. it's impossible to say definitively one way or another what happened. To me, it FELT just off enough to seem like they were trying to imply something other than a loop reset.
With Wyatt being the focus in the MiB story line at the moment, and Wyatt being an ex-Union soldier, it would have been a perfect time for one of the Confederatos to drop a mention in Pariah.. but we got nothing. Again, doesn't MEAN anything one way or another, but it's interesting. It's also interesting how much Union/Confederate stuff we see in the William scenes (Getting off the train, recruiting, hijacking, etc), while there is a distinct lack of any of them in the MiB scenes. Is William/Logan's Westworld take place in late 1860's and perhaps MiB is 1880's? I don't know enough about old west technology to know if there is anything significantly different to prove they're mimicking a slightly different time period.
Wikipedia on nitroglycerin:
No idea if Westworld even cares about adhering to actual history or anything, but that's an interesting time stamp for our liquid nitroglycerin. Dynamite came about a year or two later, but I can't remember if we've seen it or not.
Just when you think they're gonna kill the MiB=William theory.. they give it new life, but just enough to keep it plausible while also making it entirely plausible that it's not true.
Lawrence could easily have been cleaned up and put in place as El Lazo, he even says "my name is Lawrence" a little while into the episode. That could be the 'start' of his loop, he tricks the Confederatos and maybe something goes south so he's on the run, eventually getting captured and hung as we saw him when the MiB "rescued" him. This makes sense.
However, Lawrence could also be El Lazo in the past, (or both, I suppose). With no real indicator of "elapsed time" between Lawrence getting bled out by MiB & meeting William & Logan.. it's impossible to say definitively one way or another what happened. To me, it FELT just off enough to seem like they were trying to imply something other than a loop reset.
With Wyatt being the focus in the MiB story line at the moment, and Wyatt being an ex-Union soldier, it would have been a perfect time for one of the Confederatos to drop a mention in Pariah.. but we got nothing. Again, doesn't MEAN anything one way or another, but it's interesting. It's also interesting how much Union/Confederate stuff we see in the William scenes (Getting off the train, recruiting, hijacking, etc), while there is a distinct lack of any of them in the MiB scenes. Is William/Logan's Westworld take place in late 1860's and perhaps MiB is 1880's? I don't know enough about old west technology to know if there is anything significantly different to prove they're mimicking a slightly different time period.
Wikipedia on nitroglycerin:
No idea if Westworld even cares about adhering to actual history or anything, but that's an interesting time stamp for our liquid nitroglycerin. Dynamite came about a year or two later, but I can't remember if we've seen it or not.