Huh? Wasn't it an average NeoGAF penis?
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Huh? Wasn't it an average NeoGAF penis?
What's the betting that if the two timeline theory is right, the finale will be William killing Dolores, and Dolores killing the MiB?
My only concern regarding the timeline theory is the gloss might come off once all is revealed. Can the show move forward in a linear fashion without all the head-scratching and intrigue?
That said, I think most of us expected a rather trivial yet well presented "robots rise up against their creators" tale, so all this intrigue and philosophical debating is a welcome surprise.
My only concern regarding the timeline theory is the gloss might come off once all is revealed. Can the show move forward in a linear fashion without all the head-scratching and intrigue?
That said, I think most of us expected a rather trivial yet well presented "robots rise up against their creators" tale, so all this intrigue and philosophical debating is a welcome surprise.
I'd say its almost confirmed, everything MiB has said about characters as well makes sense. He said to Lawrence that he use to have more to him and that Dolores had more pomp to her. She clearly does with William.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Compared to the average NeoGAF member's totally honest and truthful statements about their penis sizes, it was way below average.
I feel like that's such an obvious trope in the A.I. gaining sentience genre, that this show will avoid it for the most part.
I'm sure that will form an important part of the show's development, but I feel like it's not going to be as simple as that. Perhaps it's all... part of the plan?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
My guess is William's "White Hat" tendencies inadvertently prevent Dolores from breaking free from her programming, which Arnold hid within the storyline called "The Maze". This puts William on a 30 year quest to right that wrong at any cost, leading him to become the MIB in search of "The Maze".
It would also help explain Ed Harris' comments about him feeling the MIB is not a villain.
It would also help explain Ed Harris' comments about him feeling the MIB is not a villain.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I kinda think the show may go the route of having some of the humans fight for the emerging AI entities rather than the traditional AI apocalypse. It's pretty obvious that if the hosts gain sentience they're going to have legitimate issues with humanity due to how they've been used.
But in this case it is being demonstrated that some humans empathize with them. For instance I can't see Bernard accepting the status quo if he becomes convinced the hosts are sentient. There's also his subordinate programmer, she feels bad about what the hosts go through. And Ford, even if he's only doing it to keep up appearances, has to constantly admonish the staff for empathizing with the hosts.
But in this case it is being demonstrated that some humans empathize with them. For instance I can't see Bernard accepting the status quo if he becomes convinced the hosts are sentient. There's also his subordinate programmer, she feels bad about what the hosts go through. And Ford, even if he's only doing it to keep up appearances, has to constantly admonish the staff for empathizing with the hosts.
I suppose my expectations were based on the film. Now granted I watched a grainy VHS recorded from a live broadcast, 20+ years ago, so maybe any depth went over my head. Point being, I knew the premise and what the overall arc would be, and naively didn't think beyond that.
What we've been presented with though...it oozes so much style at times. Genuinely intriguing. Like I said though, remove the timeline intrigue, and how does it move forward?
I also wonder regarding the longevity of the show. They've planned for multiple seasons, so is the inevitable robot revolt a slow burn, or over as quickly as it starts and then we move into a life in a Westworld post-uprising?
What does the show become once the robots kill their makers? Does the outside world press the nuke button? Is the park so far removed (planet/ocean/moon/whatever) that they right it off and we see how this isolated, newly born social structure evolves?
Does the show end with Dolores going T-1000, or does that happen far sooner, and the subsequent story is the humane/Delos trying to take the park back?
Not sure if the show runners have commented so sorry if I've missed something.
MiamiWesker
Member
I try not to read much here cause I am afraid of hidden spoilers. This thread opened my eyes to the timeline theory and MIB theory and I am all in after this episode.
This is all my own theories, I haven't read last nights reactions. By far the biggest piece of evidence for the past theory is that the Mexican guy (forget his name) showed up as a totally different character right after he was killed by MIB. I think it's clear it's two different time periods.
The other interesting revelations is who Logan and William work for, some major company where William is just upper management and always plays by the book. MIB is the head of a major company as revealed last episode. Logan says Westworld shows a man who he really is. MIB believes Westworld shows a man who he is, it's where you go to find yourself. We learn MIB saved the park 30 years ago.
Hence William seems to be MIB. This event will show William "who he is". He will emerge a different man, he now rises in the company and becomes the head. He forever loves Westworld because it changed his life forever.
So that's what I got out of the episode, I'm all in on MIB = William.
This is all my own theories, I haven't read last nights reactions. By far the biggest piece of evidence for the past theory is that the Mexican guy (forget his name) showed up as a totally different character right after he was killed by MIB. I think it's clear it's two different time periods.
The other interesting revelations is who Logan and William work for, some major company where William is just upper management and always plays by the book. MIB is the head of a major company as revealed last episode. Logan says Westworld shows a man who he really is. MIB believes Westworld shows a man who he is, it's where you go to find yourself. We learn MIB saved the park 30 years ago.
Hence William seems to be MIB. This event will show William "who he is". He will emerge a different man, he now rises in the company and becomes the head. He forever loves Westworld because it changed his life forever.
So that's what I got out of the episode, I'm all in on MIB = William.
So am I reading too much into Ford asking Dolores if she knew the person he used to be, and the comment the MIB makes about what he will find if he cuts Ford open, seems like Ford is a robot. Possibly Arnold transferred his consciousness to Ford?
We also see the church that is buried in Fords time, and not during Williams time.
We also see the church that is buried in Fords time, and not during Williams time.
wesleyshark
Banned
Possibly different sections of the receiving area or perhaps there are multiple areas. Definitely an interesting connection.
Forgot about the buried church. Hmmm.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Man, whenever I read that phrase or variations of that phrase, I always always ALWAYS read it in Heath Ledger's Joker voice from the hospital scene.
That scene in the bar. Hot damn.
Like someone said in Reddit.
"It was god having a drink with the devil and a man in a bar. God comes and everything goes silent, the devil literally asking him what the meaning of life is. Even better was god leaving and having a piano play him out."
Like someone said in Reddit.
"It was god having a drink with the devil and a man in a bar. God comes and everything goes silent, the devil literally asking him what the meaning of life is. Even better was god leaving and having a piano play him out."
The William is the Man in Black theory is getting stronger every episode.
The Man in Black said the hosts used to be mechanical but were changed to be flesh and bones because it's cheaper.
William and Logan are from Delos and is developing this type of biotechnology. Westworld is bleeding money through the high cost of running the park. With technology from Delos that cost could be greatly reduced.
It also ties in neatly with that stranger thanking the Man in Black for saving his sister (burn victim perhaps).
And again the Man in Black had dialogue that referenced how he used to be a different type of person. He tells Lawrence that nobody talks to him like he does, except for in the past.
The Man in Black said the hosts used to be mechanical but were changed to be flesh and bones because it's cheaper.
William and Logan are from Delos and is developing this type of biotechnology. Westworld is bleeding money through the high cost of running the park. With technology from Delos that cost could be greatly reduced.
It also ties in neatly with that stranger thanking the Man in Black for saving his sister (burn victim perhaps).
And again the Man in Black had dialogue that referenced how he used to be a different type of person. He tells Lawrence that nobody talks to him like he does, except for in the past.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
There's a lot of symbolism suggesting it too ie. William chose the white hat in the past, Logan's comment about the cheap black suit, the way they speak about the park as if it's brand new.
William and Lawrence not being visible in that frame doesn't mean it's a different timeline. Earlier in the episode in the cemetery william and Lawrence also dissappear and william later mentions he heard Delores talking to herself and she dismisses it as the wind even though she clearly knows she's hearing voices and talking out loud in response to the voice.
I think when she goes inner monologue mode she short of blocks everything else out.
I also think there might actually be multiple versions of the same host on different loops at the same time (Lawrence and potentially Delores). She may have actually encountered another host with her body and that was part of why Ford had a quick conversation with her.
I think when she goes inner monologue mode she short of blocks everything else out.
I also think there might actually be multiple versions of the same host on different loops at the same time (Lawrence and potentially Delores). She may have actually encountered another host with her body and that was part of why Ford had a quick conversation with her.
yeah, that seems very likely now. There have been just way too many hints now and It goes with the whole loop theme. This show is Jonathan Nolan's "Primer" it seems
doesn't mean anything, the show might just do the whole unreliable narrator thing to intentionally mislead and confuse the viewers. They might mix scenes from two different timelines to make it look like they belong in the same chronological order. Most of what happens might not even be shown on-screen. Basically, Primer
the robots always go through exact same motions because they're stuck in their loop. That can explain why Dolores ends up at the graveyard/train again, they can't escape their programming even when they are going off-grid because it's part their fundamental existence
Veritigo_X
Member
The "VR Tank" was something interesting mentioned off hand this episode. I wonder if that's how staff are able to have conversations with Dolores while she's out in the park.
If William is MIB then what's with the scene with Ford talking to Dolores? Didn't she collapse while she was out with William? And ford looks exactly the same?
And it felt like ford was alluding to himself as a host (mib cutting him open, ford asking Dolores about who he used to be).
And it felt like ford was alluding to himself as a host (mib cutting him open, ford asking Dolores about who he used to be).
Frank the Great
Banned
My biggest problem with the MIB=William theory is that they went through the trouble of showing us a young CGI'd Anthony Hopkins, which was cool but really served no purpose. The audience is then supposed to accept Jimmi Simpson as a younger Ed Harris?
It seems like the show sets up narrative rules and then breaks them just to fool the audience. Pretty cheap IMO.
It seems like the show sets up narrative rules and then breaks them just to fool the audience. Pretty cheap IMO.
I didn't think about it last night, but reading that line now brings me to the depressing realization that no matter how good things like AI and graphics get in MMOs there will always be some asshole to yell out, "VANILLA WAS BETTER!".
Was it really CGI? Imdb has a cast listing for a Young Ford.
Heckler456
Banned
I think the "in person conversations" with Dolores happen in the theoretical "future" timeline, and the voices Dolores has been hearing in the "William" timeline is actually Arnold setting Dolores up for this destruction of the park we've been hearing about.
how does Ford talk to Dolores while she's out in the field with William? Wouldn't it make more sense if his conversation takes place many years later? And the same with Bernard
Interesting thing is that Lawrence was killed the same day as he was re-purposed or reset back into his original story line. It is possible that since he was finally killed he was placed back into the system and met William.
Hadn't realized that but you're absolutely fucking right. That's exactly what he's trying to convey lol.
I Big JG I
Banned
Need more Elise in these episodes.
Consciousness remotely loaded into a spare body and/or conversation took place in VR.
I don't think any of the conversations with ford, bernard, or any of the park employees are necessarily happening in a real place. They can check on her programming in a virtual space without having to physically remove her from the park.
In fact if there isn't a physical issue that requires repairs, why would they take the hosts out of the park if they can pass a programming test without actually having to pull them out of the park. They might have them faint for a few minutes or so it while their sleeping. Or even temporary load a duplicate instance Or sort of a dummy host programming temporarily so the host can still respond to guests and other hosts while they simultaneously run a diagnostic.
Watching the episode, I was sure that everyone would finally drop the two timelines theory, but now I see it's stronger than ever! Seriously though:
- the MiB says that hosts were in the primitive robotic stage when he first visited the park, which we've seen absolutely no evidence of in the William/Dolores storyline - they seem to be "flesh and blood" and move naturally.
- Dolores has a conversation with present-day Ford in the middle of her adventure with William.
- Lawrence is killed in MiB's storyline, which allows his body to be repurposed and inserted into William/Dolores' storyline. (Think about it - if they wanted people to start thinking about multiple timelines, wouldn't it be better to have Lawrence pop up in both storylines simultaneously?)
William & Dolores are clearly headed for a confrontation with the MiB as both close in on the maze.
Now, I DO think the show is showing us glimpses of what happened 34 years ago, but it's not the William/Dolores scenes. It's the flashes Dolores is getting of The Church. Whatever happened there has everything to do with Arnold's death and "the incident".
- the MiB says that hosts were in the primitive robotic stage when he first visited the park, which we've seen absolutely no evidence of in the William/Dolores storyline - they seem to be "flesh and blood" and move naturally.
- Dolores has a conversation with present-day Ford in the middle of her adventure with William.
- Lawrence is killed in MiB's storyline, which allows his body to be repurposed and inserted into William/Dolores' storyline. (Think about it - if they wanted people to start thinking about multiple timelines, wouldn't it be better to have Lawrence pop up in both storylines simultaneously?)
William & Dolores are clearly headed for a confrontation with the MiB as both close in on the maze.
Now, I DO think the show is showing us glimpses of what happened 34 years ago, but it's not the William/Dolores scenes. It's the flashes Dolores is getting of The Church. Whatever happened there has everything to do with Arnold's death and "the incident".
You can pull of CGI replacements in seconds worth of clips, but it gets freakishly expensive to do well when stretched across significant chunks of multiple episodes.
afternoon delight
Member
This and weightless bickering between staff is incredibly aggravating and actively makes the show worse.
It could be her snarky, oh so quick lines that make her feel like a CSI extra.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but she was out with William in that town and then collapsed, and then woke up with Ford. I thought that was a clear link to what Bernard had been doing: talking with these characters during a simulated dream while they are still out in the field.
Just caught up on this show and wow it is good, probably going to stay out of this thread because taking part in the GOT thread some people get some theories very close and I don't want to explore all the outcomes in my mind and possibly ruin whats going to happen (except of course whatever I come up with myself but thats unavoidable)
Anyway what I came to ask was, does this share anything with the original Westworld movie or is it just the name and the basic premise of being in a park called Westworld?
Please answer without any spoilers just as close to yes/no as you can (I pretty much need to know whether to actively avoid anything Westworld online)
Thanks to anyone that answers!
Anyway what I came to ask was, does this share anything with the original Westworld movie or is it just the name and the basic premise of being in a park called Westworld?
Please answer without any spoilers just as close to yes/no as you can (I pretty much need to know whether to actively avoid anything Westworld online)
Thanks to anyone that answers!
I agree. It's the one part of the show that's especially bad. I feel like they're trying to get the viewer to dislike the two (or at least the red head), but it's pretty bad.
bggrthnjsus
Member
i don't understand how those two clowns haven't been fired yet