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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Moff
Member
I dont think simply shooting one will make them leak oil or lose screws like in a german command & conquer game, what MiB was talking about was probably the real actual insides
For some reason there remains a certain hesitancy to actually call excellent television excellent. People are always equivocating on their fandom, like they're nervous about being judged by someone. I read so many comments that start with phrases like "It's not perfect, but..." "It's got flaws, sure..."
Nothing is perfect or flawless. Watch the shows you like and enjoy them unapologetically.
No, Harris said "You used to be beautiful. When this place started, I opened one of you up once. A million little perfect pieces. And then they changed you. Made you this sad, real mess. Flesh and bone, just like us."
So, you wouldn't notice unless they opened someone up.
Naughty_Doge
Member
The main issue I have with the different timelines theory is that both the park and the hosts look pretty much the same across MiB and William stories. There is little to no sign of perceivable improvement or change.
Which reminds me that we haven't seen that posh British guy in a while. Good.
so maybe im reading too much into the unreliable narrator
but in dolores' flashback scene with the fortune teller she starts pulling out a wire from her arm
doesnt that confirm that the william plot in in the past and the robots are more "machine" back then than now as MiB said?
at least if its really her old memories of past events bleeding in with her present mind and not just some sort of visual metaphor for her realizing what she is
but in dolores' flashback scene with the fortune teller she starts pulling out a wire from her arm
doesnt that confirm that the william plot in in the past and the robots are more "machine" back then than now as MiB said?
at least if its really her old memories of past events bleeding in with her present mind and not just some sort of visual metaphor for her realizing what she is
I took that to be another implanted satellite transmitter, like the one they found in the robot with the bashed-in head.
I think the last episode helped clear that up a bit. The main driver to switching from mechanical to synthetic materials was the reduced cost in doing so.
dead souls
Member
Eh, I don't know about that. I'm a bigger Lost hater than anyone who isn't named erigu but I'd say Lost season 1>Westworld season 1 by quite a wide margin.
Both shows are ultimately mediocrities though, so it doesn't really matter.
that robot transmitter had a laser on it though, this was just a single wire i believe.
User 479360
Banned
I'm still not fully caught up. I did watch episodes 3 and 4 this morning, though, when I couldn't sleep.
Still liking this show quite a bit. Hoping to watch episode 5 tonight, too.
Still liking this show quite a bit. Hoping to watch episode 5 tonight, too.
All caught up.
I was a doubter of the William = MiB theory, but I'm almost certain now.
I'm also certain we are witnessing atleast three timelines with Dolores.
Chronically, Arnold attempts to take down the park. I think this is actually a revolt he instigates, with Dolores, one of the first, being his chief revolutionary. Arnold "dies", Delos take over and Dolores is wiped and put back into service.
Then occurs the William timeline. She's haunted by the reveries of Arnold's goal. It's left a lasting legacy on her. However it's resolved, William will be the "hero", and Dolores get outs back into her loop.
The third timeline has the MiB chasing down Arnold's breadcrumb trail. Why it has taken him 30 years, I'm not sure. Thanks to his efforts as William, he's afforded certainly privileges for life. In this timeline, Dolores is ALONE. She's retracing her steps that she took with William.
I think Arnold is Bernard. Or rather, Bernard is a host based on Arnold, created out of either loneliness or a sick fascination by Ford. Arnold lives on though, either as an anomaly in the host's code, or as a unique AI in its own right. The center of the maze is the...revelation, the moment of truth so to speak, needed for a host to reach the necessary enlightenment.
I also question, whether the conversations Dolores has with Bernard aren't Bernard at all, but actually Arnold. Dolores tells Ford she hasn't talked to Arnold for 34 years, and then speaks to him to reassure him that their secret is safe. Who is the one person we've seen asking Dolores to keep things secret? Arnold still exists, speaking to Dolores when she dreams.
It's interesting to note that this episode brought up VR; possibly a way they can speak to the hosts whilst they're "dreaming"? Either that, or they have a secondary body to upload the host consciousness. Not very cost-effective, so I bet it's all virtually augmented. Arnold is embedded in there, somewhere.
Two great first pump moments this episode; William leaving Logan, and Dolores going all gunslinger.
Love this show, already.
I was a doubter of the William = MiB theory, but I'm almost certain now.
I'm also certain we are witnessing atleast three timelines with Dolores.
Chronically, Arnold attempts to take down the park. I think this is actually a revolt he instigates, with Dolores, one of the first, being his chief revolutionary. Arnold "dies", Delos take over and Dolores is wiped and put back into service.
Then occurs the William timeline. She's haunted by the reveries of Arnold's goal. It's left a lasting legacy on her. However it's resolved, William will be the "hero", and Dolores get outs back into her loop.
The third timeline has the MiB chasing down Arnold's breadcrumb trail. Why it has taken him 30 years, I'm not sure. Thanks to his efforts as William, he's afforded certainly privileges for life. In this timeline, Dolores is ALONE. She's retracing her steps that she took with William.
I think Arnold is Bernard. Or rather, Bernard is a host based on Arnold, created out of either loneliness or a sick fascination by Ford. Arnold lives on though, either as an anomaly in the host's code, or as a unique AI in its own right. The center of the maze is the...revelation, the moment of truth so to speak, needed for a host to reach the necessary enlightenment.
I also question, whether the conversations Dolores has with Bernard aren't Bernard at all, but actually Arnold. Dolores tells Ford she hasn't talked to Arnold for 34 years, and then speaks to him to reassure him that their secret is safe. Who is the one person we've seen asking Dolores to keep things secret? Arnold still exists, speaking to Dolores when she dreams.
It's interesting to note that this episode brought up VR; possibly a way they can speak to the hosts whilst they're "dreaming"? Either that, or they have a secondary body to upload the host consciousness. Not very cost-effective, so I bet it's all virtually augmented. Arnold is embedded in there, somewhere.
Two great first pump moments this episode; William leaving Logan, and Dolores going all gunslinger.
Love this show, already.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I got the feeling that Pariah and other depraved parts of the park have existed for a long time at the outskirts. The farther out from Sweetwater you travel, the more dangerous and deranged it gets, just in general atmosphere and behavior. If you want to seek out Pariah, that's on you and it says a lot about you as a person, I guess.
The Right Deal
Banned
My friends and I still sometimes forget characters names on this show. Say what you will about later seasons, but Lost's mix of character work and mysteries in Season 1 outshines Westworld's so far. William and Maeve are probably the closest I get to feeling genuinely attached. Teddy keeps hitting the same beat over and over, Dolores has potential but the plot stuff going ona round her makes it hard to pin her down as a character, Ford and MiB are enigma's, most everyone outside the park is an exposition machine.
But then again, LOST had 22/23 episodes to establish itself in the first season while Westworld has 10, so I can understand trying to get the plot and mysteries moving quickly.
But then again, LOST had 22/23 episodes to establish itself in the first season while Westworld has 10, so I can understand trying to get the plot and mysteries moving quickly.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think the narrative is pretty straightforward and people are overly complicating themselves with the William = MIB theory, multiple timeline theories, etc.
Yes, there are scenes that take place out of order chronologically, but those are either the scenes that take place in 'Analysis' or they're the scenes that Dolores is hallucinating (from past iterations or the depths of her own subconscious).
William and Logan are operating in the same timespan as MIB. The narrative is very straightforward that way, especially since MIB is now heading to Pariah, while Dolores and William venture to the frontlines. That's where MIB, Dolores, Teddy, William, and Logan (probably) are all going to meet and it will get very messy and very bloody, given how they've built up this 'war' narrative and the shit going on with Wyatt and the maze.
It's also in this same timespan that Maeve has fully figured out what's going on and she's essentially broken out. She's ahead of the game in comparisons to Dolores who is slowly waking up, just through a different manner. Maeve is the NPC whose respawn glitched, and each glitch compounded again and again, letting her memories build up over multiple deaths. So she's now in the 'real world', while Dolores and MIB hunt for the maze in Westworld. Probably just compounding challenges for Delos by the end of the season, inside and outside of Westworld.
Yes, there are scenes that take place out of order chronologically, but those are either the scenes that take place in 'Analysis' or they're the scenes that Dolores is hallucinating (from past iterations or the depths of her own subconscious).
William and Logan are operating in the same timespan as MIB. The narrative is very straightforward that way, especially since MIB is now heading to Pariah, while Dolores and William venture to the frontlines. That's where MIB, Dolores, Teddy, William, and Logan (probably) are all going to meet and it will get very messy and very bloody, given how they've built up this 'war' narrative and the shit going on with Wyatt and the maze.
It's also in this same timespan that Maeve has fully figured out what's going on and she's essentially broken out. She's ahead of the game in comparisons to Dolores who is slowly waking up, just through a different manner. Maeve is the NPC whose respawn glitched, and each glitch compounded again and again, letting her memories build up over multiple deaths. So she's now in the 'real world', while Dolores and MIB hunt for the maze in Westworld. Probably just compounding challenges for Delos by the end of the season, inside and outside of Westworld.
Cornballer
Member
Reviews:
- Vanity Fair review
- NYT Review
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Rolling Stone review
- Vox review
- Warming Glow review
- MTV review
Interviews:
- Showrunners answer our burning questions about episode 5
- Evan Rachel Wood tells the story behind Westworlds latest twist
- THR: Evan Rachel Wood Talks Dolores' 'Terminator' Mode and That Orgy Scene
- Jimmi Simpson on Shooting That Westworld Orgy
- Collider: Sidse Babett Knudsen
Discussion:
- THR: Inside 'Westworld's' "Epic" Orgy Scene
- Westworld: First selection of music released on iTunes
- THR: 'Westworld': A Closer Look at the Park's Mole Problem
- Collider: Last Nights Westworld Offered Up Major Evidence for That Man in Black Theory
- Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 5
Video:
- "The Weeks Ahead" trailer (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Vanity Fair review
- NYT Review
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Rolling Stone review
- Vox review
- Warming Glow review
- MTV review
Interviews:
- Showrunners answer our burning questions about episode 5
- Evan Rachel Wood tells the story behind Westworlds latest twist
- THR: Evan Rachel Wood Talks Dolores' 'Terminator' Mode and That Orgy Scene
- Jimmi Simpson on Shooting That Westworld Orgy
- Collider: Sidse Babett Knudsen
Discussion:
- THR: Inside 'Westworld's' "Epic" Orgy Scene
- Westworld: First selection of music released on iTunes
- THR: 'Westworld': A Closer Look at the Park's Mole Problem
- Collider: Last Nights Westworld Offered Up Major Evidence for That Man in Black Theory
- Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 5
Video:
- "The Weeks Ahead" trailer (please spoiler tag any discussion)
I'm starting to think this as well, or at least that Arnold is someone in the current timeline. They're being too mysterious about arnold and what he looks like. The fact that not a single image of him is available is telling. Hell maybe Arnold is just an AI and never existed in the first place?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Arnold is on the right:
Arnold, I think, is the voice of God in the heads of the hosts. He left a part of himself inside them before he killed himself. Something that will allow a spark of sentience to ignite and wake them up from their reality. He's dead, but lives on in the hosts.
woah I never thought of this, but I could see it making a lot of sense
with only 5 more episodes to go, I don't think they can cover all that many other places. Is that kind of a hint that S2 still takes place inside the park?
There was a map earlier in the thread, and it actually doesn't have Pariah on it but Logan mentioned it being an Easter egg so I could see it not being on the official map.
There's also a map of the corporate facility that dissproved the monorail arrival are a as being the cold storage area.
There's also a map of the corporate facility that dissproved the monorail arrival are a as being the cold storage area.
Arnold is on the right:
Arnold, I think, is the voice of God in the heads of the hosts. He left a part of himself inside them before he killed himself. Something that will allow a spark of sentience to ignite and wake them up from their reality. He's dead, but lives on in the hosts.
Is it though? Logan mentions that there's not even a picture on record of Arnold when his lawyers are going their research on the company. Ford and whoever else buried the incident. Yes, Ford is likely to have a keepsake that no one else can see, but I find it perfectly acceptable to overlook this spanner in the works.
Also, I think Arnold's voice IS Bernard's.
So, after watching this episode
I'm starting to look at the William = MIB seriously but there's still something that I can't escape before accepting the theory.
William and MIB feel like foils for each other.
William believes in the hosts, he sees them as people. The only time he kills is when he feels in danger OR now, Dolores was in danger and it was a life or death moment. He is so attached to Dolores and the Hosts that he just left his Brother-in-law behind. Not just because of the reveal of him being an asshole and seeing William as a non-threat. But, William throughout the entire season has disliked how his Brother-in-law has been treating the hosts as tools to act out his vices with no regards.
MIB, on the other hand, doesn't care for the hosts. He interacts with them but to him, they're mostly tools just getting him to the maze. He is buddy-buddy with Lawrence but once he finds his new friend, he guts him for a blood transfusion. Lawerence is just a tool to him to be used and discarded. Just like William's brother-in-law uses the hosts and William loathes him throughout this entire season for acting that way.
So, this idea that MIB = William is odd when these two characters have a giant gulf between them to cover. I'm not saying it cant be done if it has been 30 years. But, It'll be a hell of an explanation.
I'm starting to look at the William = MIB seriously but there's still something that I can't escape before accepting the theory.
William and MIB feel like foils for each other.
William believes in the hosts, he sees them as people. The only time he kills is when he feels in danger OR now, Dolores was in danger and it was a life or death moment. He is so attached to Dolores and the Hosts that he just left his Brother-in-law behind. Not just because of the reveal of him being an asshole and seeing William as a non-threat. But, William throughout the entire season has disliked how his Brother-in-law has been treating the hosts as tools to act out his vices with no regards.
MIB, on the other hand, doesn't care for the hosts. He interacts with them but to him, they're mostly tools just getting him to the maze. He is buddy-buddy with Lawrence but once he finds his new friend, he guts him for a blood transfusion. Lawerence is just a tool to him to be used and discarded. Just like William's brother-in-law uses the hosts and William loathes him throughout this entire season for acting that way.
So, this idea that MIB = William is odd when these two characters have a giant gulf between them to cover. I'm not saying it cant be done if it has been 30 years. But, It'll be a hell of an explanation.
bootsthecat
Banned
Definitely something going on with Bernard, especially after the way Ford described him having a "sensitive disposition" to Cullen. Like he programmed it or something. But...would Cullen, who is from corporate, be having a romantic relationship with a host? I dunno what to believe. Maybe once you go android, you never go back 
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think it's more:
William = good guy player - sympathetic, caring, wants to be 'the hero', he sees the hosts as 'people', and even though he knows better, he can't shut off the sympathetic part of his brain. Now that he's with Dolores, I think he's becoming aware that she is very different from all the other hosts. He considers the entire thing a sadistic circle jerk though.
Logan = degenerate player - just wants to wantonly kill and fuck, like the people who go on shooting sprees in GTA for shits and giggles. He sees the hosts as livestock or for pleasure only.
MIB = Expert player, knows everything in and out, views everything as tools or a means to an end that only he understands.
William = good guy player - sympathetic, caring, wants to be 'the hero', he sees the hosts as 'people', and even though he knows better, he can't shut off the sympathetic part of his brain. Now that he's with Dolores, I think he's becoming aware that she is very different from all the other hosts. He considers the entire thing a sadistic circle jerk though.
Logan = degenerate player - just wants to wantonly kill and fuck, like the people who go on shooting sprees in GTA for shits and giggles. He sees the hosts as livestock or for pleasure only.
MIB = Expert player, knows everything in and out, views everything as tools or a means to an end that only he understands.
Definitely something going on with Bernard, especially after the way Ford described him having a "sensitive disposition" to Cullen. Like he programmed it or something. But...would Cullen, who is from corporate, be having a romantic relationship with a host? I dunno what to believe. Maybe once you go android, you never go back
In my head theory, Ford is the only one that knows.
He's also the one that's finishing Arnold's work after growing resentful of Delos, but then I'm well off the deepend with this show.
Corporate map
Territory map
https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/westworld-map.jpg
If Pariah is supposed to be sort of a secret Easter egg like Logan mentions it makes sense it isn't on this map.
Edit hmm weird this one doesn't even have Sweetwater on it. I have seen another one with Sweetwater and Abernathy ranch on it.
Territory map
https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/westworld-map.jpg
If Pariah is supposed to be sort of a secret Easter egg like Logan mentions it makes sense it isn't on this map.
Edit hmm weird this one doesn't even have Sweetwater on it. I have seen another one with Sweetwater and Abernathy ranch on it.
Veritigo_X
Member
Definitely something going on with Bernard, especially after the way Ford described him having a "sensitive disposition" to Cullen. Like he programmed it or something. But...would Cullen, who is from corporate, be having a romantic relationship with a host? I dunno what to believe. Maybe once you go android, you never go back
In episode 2 (I think?) Ford also mentions knowing "how that brain works" when Bernard was deep in thought. If he is actually a host, Cullen probably doesn't realize it.
I thought the El Lazo criminal underworld stuff was the Easter Egg, not Pariah itself. I can't imagine them hiding an entire city. Wasn't Dolores even aware of it?
The map is updated after every episode. Pariah is on it now.
https://discoverwestworld.com/#explore
As for the corporate map disproving cold storage or the old disused facility being the area William arrived at, it looks like the current facility is built on top of an old one. Cold storage could be the old lab and the disused facility the old welcome center the guest arrived at. Construction seems pretty trivial after episode 4.
He already mentioned that he was a different man when talking to Ford. Also if his goal is to free Dolores he'd probably be willing to do anything to get that done. Draining the blood of a host that'll be fine in 24 hours is a small sacrifice for everyone's freedom?
Veritigo_X
Member
I'm kinda bummed that the adventures of Man in Black and Lawrence are now over. I wanted one more "motherfucker..." out of him after being saved from execution. Maybe William or Dolores will help me out here.
bootsthecat
Banned
I just re-watched the Ford/Bernard chat in ep 3...why would Ford bother to explain the parks origins and Arnold, if Bernard has Arnolds consciousness? To be clear it doesn't make me any more certain if he's a host or not, but makes me question if he truly is Arnold's 'vessel'. Also, wasn't there a scene (I couldn't find it) where Ford mentioned Bernard being a relatively new employee? If Arnold, why bother switching bodies? To hide Ford's secret that he is in fact currently 'inside' Bernard (and was in some other host as the 'programmer person' prior to Bernard coming on board)?
omg my head is gonna explode, this show man.
Another crackpot theory from me.
So I'm rewatching from the start. They alter Hector's shootout to specifically take out hosts recently updated, to ensure they can recall them ASAP.
Both Maeve and Dolores are stood next to a host taken out by the posse. The two most unique hosts we've seen so far ARE NOT subjected to Ford's update.
Also, Dolores opens up the series after being roughed up, being spoken to by Bernard off camera. Her bruises match the scene at the end of episode, only it's Luke Hemsworth speaking.
So I'm rewatching from the start. They alter Hector's shootout to specifically take out hosts recently updated, to ensure they can recall them ASAP.
Both Maeve and Dolores are stood next to a host taken out by the posse. The two most unique hosts we've seen so far ARE NOT subjected to Ford's update.
Also, Dolores opens up the series after being roughed up, being spoken to by Bernard off camera. Her bruises match the scene at the end of episode, only it's Luke Hemsworth speaking.
Ok so what about this as an argument against two timelines, from the promo of upcoming stuff (spoilers) http://i.imgur.com/JmK1bpy.jpg
she talks to MiB in the shirt she's wearing with William this episode
I would suggest if she's retracing her steps, she's trying to be as faithful to her previous steps as possible?
Easily explained.
She put it on in the current timeline. Remember she's repeating her steps exactly except for not actually having William with her. Here's the shot of her in the train in the current timeline with that outfit on:
http://imgur.com/tWDnSfJ
Also if you're going to point at stuff in the previews there's a shot that adds a lot to the MiB=William theory
http://imgur.com/tWDnSfJ
Also if you're going to point at stuff in the previews there's a shot that adds a lot to the MiB=William theory
She's retreading the path she did with him originally when she first broke out of her loop.
Frank the Great
Banned
Dolores and Maeve may not have been subject to the update, but Dolores came into contact with an "infected" host (her "dad") and then passed the word virus on to Maeve. Seems like this altered their programming (or activated a long-dormant bit of code) and ultimately had the same effect as the update, with the additional bonus that the park staff isn't aware of it (at least, not all of them).
Yes, absolutely.
However Dolores clearly lies when being assessed, so I'd say whatever is in her has been there a while, predating the latest update.
Maybe her dad was a catalyst, but the cause is something different, IMO.
It wasn't the barman, shot by Hector, that corrupted Maeve; it was Dolores.
shira
Member
Aren't brains dual hemisphered?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It wasn't the same day. It was the next day.
Mr. Bad Example
Neo Member
William is the penis.