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[cormack12]

Source: https://x.com/theterk (Ex Playstation/Xbox Hardware dev, now at AMD)

Was posted prior to the official reveal buit interesting and he called some things spot on.
Verdict: Impressive on paper, but not cut and dry. Biggest improvements are higher fps and more stable DRS

Legacy improvements possible for PS5 Pro (covers TLOU Pt 1, Doom Eternal, Space Marine 2)


Higher Resolution but same frame rates (Space Marine 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Hellbalde II, Black Myth Wukong, COD)


Low res and higher FPS (COD, FH5, Cyberpunk 2077)


Lower res and Ray Tracing (Control, Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Witcher 3)

 

[Same ol G]

Still too expensive

 

[HL3.exe]

Not sure why most keep ignoring the whole 'CPU isn't getting an upgrade' meme.

Higher Framerates isn't only depended on a leap in raw GPU power. The games that will see a bump in performance are already GPU bound in the first place. But plenty of more ambitious games that tax the CPU with physics and simulation stuff are gonna give the same results regardless. (Think Dragon's Dogma 2, or Space Marine 2)

 

[Topher]

Source: https://x.com/theterk (Ex Playstation/Xbox Hardware dev, now at AMD)

Was posted prior to the official reveal buit interesting and he called some things spot on.
Verdict: Impressive on paper, but not cut and dry. Biggest improvements are higher fps and more stable DRS

Legacy improvements possible for PS5 Pro (covers TLOU Pt 1, Doom Eternal, Space Marine 2)


Higher Resolution but same frame rates (Space Marine 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Hellbalde II, Black Myth Wukong, COD)


Low res and higher FPS (COD, FH5, Cyberpunk 2077)


Lower res and Ray Tracing (Control, Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Witcher 3)

Damn.....how did everyone miss this? I'm going to go through these videos more thoroughly this afternoon, but this looks like some damn good information.

 

[Vick]

Not sure why most keep ignoring the whole 'CPU isn't getting an upgrade' meme.

Higher Framerates isn't only depended on a leap in raw GPU power. The games that will see a bump in performance are already GPU bound in the first place. But plenty of more ambitious games that tax the CPU with physics and simulation stuff are gonna give the same results regardless. (Think Dragon's Dogma 2, or Space Marine 2)

It gets ignored because it's mostly irrelevant, as many users already explained:

Not gonna get dragged into the whole CPU limited argument again, but what I will say is that most things we say are CPU limited... aren't. They are just poorly optimized for a multi-core CPU. Has always been the case. In a manner of speaking, the PS5 would benefit more from a Zen2 CPU running at 4.5Ghz than from a Zen4 one running at 3.5Ghz in the current development climate.

But the fix is now to just brute force everything, that is what the misguided fix to "CPU bottlenecks" has become, just throw in the fastest CPU you can in there (in hindsight this has always been the PC thing). Whereas, if anyone takes anything more than a cursory glance at CPU usage and utilization charts while running their games, they would see what we should be doing is asking devs to optimize their shit better.

Regarding CPU limited games, something you should be aware of is that devs can, and have been using GPU resources to perform tasks that would typically be handled by the CPU for ages. Pointing out that the games are CPU limited comes with the asterisk that, AS CURRENTLY CODED the games are CPU locked. If the devs had chosen to do so, they could have tapped into the GPU to offload some of the CPU tasks as well.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how much brute strength CPU and GPU power you give the devs, the end result is dependent on how well the devs harness that power.

Vast majority of PS5 games already offer a 60fps mode so the CPU can't be an issue. The 4K30 and 1440p60 split is a popular configuration for a lot of titles, and the former being 30fps is likely because the game is being GPU limited.

Not only is the GPU better in the Pro, PSSR will take a lot that load off anyway AND it's 2-3x faster at ray tracing.

The only AAA game off the top of my head to really hammer the CPU as of late is Dragon's Dogma 2. But that's the case even on top end rigs and is an outlier.

... Also who the fuck wants to play Dragon's Dogma 2?

And because Cerny is apparently full aware of what's needed to maintain 60fps even in those instances, in titles more CPU-dependent:

Time-Stamped:

 

[Physiognomonics]

Damn.....how did everyone miss this? I'm going to go through these videos more thoroughly this afternoon, but this looks like some damn good information.

I read a bit of his twitter thread and watched his YT video. He claims nothing on twitter except: "See, I told you" "No that's not really that-ish". He tells nothing of substance. And on his video he just list all possible improvements but we learn nothing we already knew or suspected. No concrete numbers.

 

[diffusionx]

Not sure why most keep ignoring the whole 'CPU isn't getting an upgrade' meme.

Higher Framerates isn't only depended on a leap in raw GPU power. The games that will see a bump in performance are already GPU bound in the first place. But plenty of more ambitious games that tax the CPU with physics and simulation stuff are gonna give the same results regardless. (Think Dragon's Dogma 2, or Space Marine 2)

The problem isn't that Dragon's Dogma 2 is such a massively complex and brilliant piece of software that it needs a mammoth CPU to work its magic, it's an unoptimized mess. It really had no business coming out in the state it came out in, and they paid for it.

 

[Eszti]

mlid that moron again lmao

 

[HL3.exe]

The problem isn't that Dragon's Dogma 2 is such a massively complex and brilliant piece of software that it needs a mammoth CPU to work its magic, it's an unoptimized mess. It really had no business coming out in the state it came out in, and they paid for it.

True, i'm not saying updates won't fix the CPU utilization. (I hope so). I'm saying there is still the same cap on CPU performance, meaning RT can't meaningfully expanded until we see the next gen hardware with a CPU leap, and probably RT being mandatory (which is a good thing in my opinion, because then we get games build around the concept, instead of it being slapped on as a option with rasterized fallbacks)

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I'll take 1440p 60fps Cyberpunk 2077 upscaled to 4K using PSSR.

 

[Gaiff]

X-Factor is PSSR and we’re not sure what it’s like. Until we do, people should stfu and stop these pointless comparisons, but they won’t.

 

[Clear]

Not sure why most keep ignoring the whole 'CPU isn't getting an upgrade' meme.

Higher Framerates isn't only depended on a leap in raw GPU power. The games that will see a bump in performance are already GPU bound in the first place. But plenty of more ambitious games that tax the CPU with physics and simulation stuff are gonna give the same results regardless. (Think Dragon's Dogma 2, or Space Marine 2)

When DD2 in its original released version could choke up the most powerful and expensive consumer-grade CPU's on the market, why would anyone think that's a goal worth chasing?

Its software engineering's job not to overload the target hardware, NOT for hardware designers to build a device that can handle anything that is thrown at it regardless of how unreasonable the workload!

Especially when performance in the context of a game is about throughput not raw computational grunt; Threads serving all elements of the system need to sync up, meaning that the CPU (the thing that needs to mediate this) is often going to find itself waiting for concurrent tasks to finish!

People act surprised that running non-vsynced results in better frame-times than under vsync! Not realizing that the process of synchronization DEMANDS that one task needs to *wait* for an externally generated flag to be set before executing because that's what synchronization does!

 

[nemiroff]

Keep in mind virtually no developers are going to go back and change their code for the PS5Pro, so keep the daydreams to realistic scenarios like f.ex. frame gen overlays.

 

[Codeblew]

Not sure why most keep ignoring the whole 'CPU isn't getting an upgrade' meme.

Higher Framerates isn't only depended on a leap in raw GPU power. The games that will see a bump in performance are already GPU bound in the first place. But plenty of more ambitious games that tax the CPU with physics and simulation stuff are gonna give the same results regardless. (Think Dragon's Dogma 2, or Space Marine 2)

Most PS5 games already have a 60 FPS mode. Now we get 60 FPS with Fidelity+ graphics. What do you not understand?

 

[Mobilemofo]

I'm interested in exactly how PSSR works, and if it will be any good.

 

[jm89]

Keep in mind virtually no developers are going to go back and change their code for the PS5Pro, so keep the daydreams to realistic scenarios like f.ex. frame gen overlays.

They already are though. Just look at the list of games getting pro patches on launch.

 

[HL3.exe]

Most PS5 games already have a 60 FPS mode. Now we get 60 FPS with Fidelity+ graphics. What do you not understand?

Yes, so its €799 for performance mode being marginally better in it's DLSS equivalent 4k upscaled. Without any of the benefits a upgraded CPU brings. I'd say 'not worth it and wait for next gen or buy a PC'. But you do you <3

 

[Topher]

Yes, so its €799 for performance mode being marginally better in it's DLSS equivalent 4k upscaled. Without any of the benefits a upgraded CPU brings. I'd say 'not worth it and wait for next gen or buy a PC'. But you do you <3

If PSSR turns out to be DLSS equivalent then it is every bit worth the upgrade. The benefits of an upgraded CPU would only apply to specific games. PC gaming is always an option for anyone, but you are not buying a 4070 PC for $699.

 

[HL3.exe]

When DD2 in its original released version could choke up the most powerful and expensive consumer-grade CPU's on the market, why would anyone think that's a goal worth chasing?

Its software engineering's job not to overload the target hardware, NOT for hardware designers to build a device that can handle anything that is thrown at it regardless of how unreasonable the workload!

Especially when performance in the context of a game is about throughput not raw computational grunt; Threads serving all elements of the system need to sync up, meaning that the CPU (the thing that needs to mediate this) is often going to find itself waiting for concurrent tasks to finish!

People act surprised that running non-vsynced results in better frame-times than under vsync! Not realizing that the process of synchronization DEMANDS that one task needs to *wait* for an externally generated flag to be set before executing because that's what synchronization does!

True, multi-threaded game development is still to this day a bitch to work with. I still remember John Carmacks talk about Multi-threading being incredible for all other software developer except for game development because of their determistic need (I/O, branch predictions quality). Game devs rather have one large efficient single thread core with high IPC, but that technology simply doesn't exist (as Cerny mentioned a few years ago). So devs are stick squeezing performance out of parallelized threads that can create stall issues or dependency problems.

In some ways It's why game-logic/simulation complexity hasn't leaped all that significant since the 00's because of how hard multi-threading development is.

 

[HL3.exe]

If PSSR turns out to be DLSS equivalent then it is every bit worth the upgrade. The benefits of an upgraded CPU would only apply to specific games. PC gaming is always an option for anyone, but you are not buying a 4070 PC for $699.

But a 3070ti (which is the equivalent of the pro) is definitely possible. Got my 3070 for 199,-.

 

[Topher]

But a 3070ti (which is the equivalent of the pro) is definitely possible. Got my 3070 for 250,-.

According to DF, the 4070 is the equivalent to the Pro and that 3070ti cannot utilize DLSS 3.x

 

[HL3.exe]

According to DF, the 4070 is the equivalent to the Pro and that 3070ti cannot utilize DLSS 3.x

time stamp

"Rtx3070ti" it's still guess work, true. Curious about real-world benchmarks.

Also, 3070 can definitely utilize DLSS 3.x. You probably mean 'Frame gen', which is arbitrarily locked off by Nvidia due to marketing techniques (selling the 4th series) as it can be enabled with FSR frame gen on top of DLSS 3.7 which looks pretty much the same.

 

[Topher]

time stamp

"Rtx3070ti" it's still guess work, true. Curious about real-world benchmarks.

Also, 3070 can definitely utilize DLSS 3.x. You probably mean 'Frame gen', which is arbitrarily locked off by Nvidia due to marketing techniques (selling the 4th series) as it can be enabled with FSR frame gen on top of DLSS 3.7 which looks pretty much the same.

Yeah, it is guesswork, but Richard said later that the closest equivalent is the 4070. Can't find a direct youtube link for some reason, but here it is on reddit.



To me, that's a worthwhile upgrade especially if it brings DLSS-like capabilities.

Stand corrected on DLSS 3.x. and 3000 series.

 

[DryvBy]

 

[HL3.exe]

Yeah, it is guesswork, but Richard said later that the closest equivalent is the 4070. Can't find a direct youtube link for some reason, but here it is on reddit.



To me, that's a worthwhile upgrade especially if it brings DLSS-like capabilities.

Stand corrected on DLSS 3.x. and 3000 series.

That's totally fine. It's what it's for. Folk who are sick of the low res performance mode in GPU-bound games which I totally sympathize with, if you know what you're buying.

I just don't agree with their price point and marketing strategy, and hope most people don't buy this box expecting CPU demanding stuff like GTA6 to run at 60.

 

[Topher]

That's totally fine. It's what it's for. Folk who are sick of the low res performance mode in GPU-bound games which I totally sympathize with, if you know what you're buying.

I just don't agree with their price point and marketing strategy, and hope most people don't buy this box expecting CPU demanding stuff like GTA6 to run at 60.

I have my own issues with the price point. The 2 TB SSD is needless and there should have been a 1 TB option with the disc drive, but that 2 TB is an easy profit margin boost for Sony. Most games are not that CPU demanding but yeah, there will be some that are not going to benefit due to the CPU. I enjoy playing games on both console and PC, but I'm just sick of FSR.

Either way, I think there is a case to be made in favor of PS5 Pro. I still need to see more games and a thorough evaluation of PSSR.

 

[HL3.exe]

I have my own issues with the price point. The 2 TB SSD is needless and there should have been a 1 TB option with the disc drive, but that 2 TB is an easy profit margin boost for Sony. Most games are not that CPU demanding but yeah, there will be some that are not going to benefit due to the CPU. I enjoy playing games on both console and PC, but I'm just sick of FSR.

Either way, I think there is a case to be made in favor of PS5 Pro. I still need to see more games and a thorough evaluation of PSSR.

My problem with modern consoles actually since the 8th gen (and the significant stagnation of single threaded IPC of the last 15 years). I'd rather see consoles boast a significant CPU leap than a GPU one, as visuals are getting marginally better at best and they're is so much room for improvement on the simulation aspects of games (collision modeling, animation, game-logic, physicalization, entity reactivity, etc) which is all CPU based.

The last time we had a better CPU over GPU in consoles was the 7th gen, and remember that era playing with lots of physics stuff? The leap from San Andreas -> GTA IV from a physics and simulation standpoint was just crazy (still is in some ways)

 

[TehGoomba7s]

Xbox fanboys really are a special breed.

 

[Radical_3d]

Source: https://x.com/theterk (Ex Playstation/Xbox Hardware dev, now at AMD)

Was posted prior to the official reveal buit interesting and he called some things spot on.
Verdict: Impressive on paper, but not cut and dry. Biggest improvements are higher fps and more stable DRS

Legacy improvements possible for PS5 Pro (covers TLOU Pt 1, Doom Eternal, Space Marine 2)


Higher Resolution but same frame rates (Space Marine 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Hellbalde II, Black Myth Wukong, COD)


Low res and higher FPS (COD, FH5, Cyberpunk 2077)


Lower res and Ray Tracing (Control, Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Witcher 3)

Why does he hate V-Sync?

 

[diffusionx]

This pricing doesn't even include the dual shock in the picture lmao.

Is he just salty that the Xbox isn't getting a pro? I know he spent a lot of time talking about how much more powerful the Series was.

 

[DryvBy]

This pricing doesn't even include the dual shock in the picture lmao.

Is he just salty that the Xbox isn't getting a pro? I know he spent a lot of time talking about how much more powerful the Series was.

He clearly knows what he's talking about about. You don't need anything with a PC.

The PC build people are really stupid. It's like they don't really understand PCs or consoles. It's not just number chasing as multiple factors contribute to both.

 

[Codeblew]

Yes, so its €799 for performance mode being marginally better in it's DLSS equivalent 4k upscaled. Without any of the benefits a upgraded CPU brings. I'd say 'not worth it and wait for next gen or buy a PC'. But you do you <3

speak american currency or I don't understand your point.

 

[kazuyamishima]

The PS Blog article about the Pro mentions that PS5 Pro Boost mode can be applied to about 8500 PS4, it will be interesting to see what improvements the games will get.

 

[nikolino840]

If PSSR turns out to be DLSS equivalent then it is every bit worth the upgrade. The benefits of an upgraded CPU would only apply to specific games. PC gaming is always an option for anyone, but you are not buying a 4070 PC for $699.

Is impossibile to use on ps5 standard?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This pricing doesn't even include the dual shock in the picture lmao.

Is he just salty that the Xbox isn't getting a pro? I know he spent a lot of time talking about how much more powerful the Series was.

The Xbox not getting a pro console is one of the largest imbalances in gaming that we've ever seen. Maybe the most relevant difference since the N64 opted to go with cartridges instead of discs.

The Series S is a relatively poor value compared to the PS5 Digital and they both went up in price (with the new Series S configuration).

You're looking at 100 dollar difference between two machines with massively different specs.

The PS5 matches the XSX in value prop.

But now the Xbox Series has no high end product to compete at all. That's a big issue, especially with Microsoft putting their games on PS5.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The PS Blog article about the Pro mentions that PS5 Pro Boost mode can be applied to about 8500 PS4, it will be interesting to see what improvements the games will get.

I mean we already know the improvements. It's the same as PS5 Boost mode. Games with unlocked framerates or dynamic resolution will reach their maxes. Patches on the other hand will allow more of these games to run at 120 fps. We should see a lot of 4K120, assuming the companies feel like patching them. You look at games like RE2 that got PS5 patches, and these are probably the biggest targets.

 

[kazuyamishima]

I mean we already know the improvements. It's the same as PS5 Boost mode. Games with unlocked framerates or dynamic resolution will reach their maxes. Patches on the other hand will allow more of these games to run at 120 fps. We should see a lot of 4K120, assuming the companies feel like patching them. You look at games like RE2 that got PS5 patches, and these are probably the biggest targets.

Yeah it will definitely be very interesting, I still have a lot of PS4 that I haven’t even started yet

 

[SegaSnatcher]

If a game already has a 60fps mode then all you need is a better GPU, Ram allotment, bandwidth to increase resolution.

With the exact same settings 1080p 60fps should hit 1440p 60 without any issues and this is native res.