Still playing Xenoblade but wouldn't quite say it outdates/surpasses FFXII, at least not izjs. I enjoyed fiddling with the characters a lot more in XII compared to where I'm at in Xenoblade (just got Dunban back)
What exactly is supposed to be so good about Final Fantasy VII?
- Thread starter Oxigen_Waste
- Start date
Still playing Xenoblade but wouldn't quite say it outdates/surpasses FFXII, at least not izjs. I enjoyed fiddling with the characters a lot more in XII compared to where I'm at in Xenoblade (just got Dunban back)
Master Nairb
Member
10 Years ago : Final Fantasy 7 was my favorite game of all time!
6 months Ago : Tried to replay for the first time, lasted 20 minutes, and put it back on the shelf where it still sits.
Today : Final Fantasy 7 is still my favorite game of all time!
6 months Ago : Tried to replay for the first time, lasted 20 minutes, and put it back on the shelf where it still sits.
Today : Final Fantasy 7 is still my favorite game of all time!
H_Prestige
Banned
Nah, it was something else
I used to be a big XII defender but that game just doesn't do it for me anymore. Combat has always been boring, its only saving grace being that it was nonintrusive. Music nonexistent or forgettable. Only good character is balthier. Story started promising but fell off a cliff about 5 hours in. Whole bunch of copy/paste enemies and random bosses with no significance. I kept playing because of the exploration and side content, but that seems minuscule compared to some of today's games.
FFVII, that game just has something. Some kind of spark. FFVIII was completely lifeless. Just felt like they wanted to put a bunch of young model looking people in picturesque locales and then grabbed some intern towards the end and asked him to quickly write down a plot. FFIX oozes charm and creativity. It's extremely beautiful. But it fails at being a playable game so I can never call it the best FF. FFX and FFXIII I'd rather not speak of. Versus XIII or FFXV reminds me a lot of FFVII stylistically so I'm eagerly looking forward to it.
I hold VII in a special place in my heart - It was a time where I was able to follow a proper story rather than the simplistic games I used to play on consoles prior to the Playstation, and despite it being somewhat convoluted at the time it was cool to think up theories and piece together the backstory of Cloud and the rest of the world. The graphics were impressive, gameplay was fun and the materia system let you try out a lot of different things while choosing the characters you liked the most to fit into the roles you gave them. The amount of time spent on side quests and mini games in order to complete the whole thing 100% was a huge investment, and all these things combined with a loveable soundtrack meant that the whole packaged experience is embedded deep in the minds of people who played it when it was still fresh.
It's hard to be reasonably critical about something you played when you were 12, I suppose. I was 21 and my primary reaction to it was how disappointing it was in comparison to FF6. They seriously missed a golden opportunity by not setting the entire game in Midgar. As soon as you leave the city the game faceplants and never gets back up.
GillianSeed79
Member
This is my take on it. My first RPG was Final Fantasy 1 on the NES. By today's standards it's probably an unmitigated pile of shit, but it was my first RPG, so I have a soft spot for it.
People also have to remember that, prior to the PS1 era, RPG localizations for the West were few and far between, Final Fantasy being the most prominent. Not only did it have the Final Fantasy name brand, it was coming off of FFIII(FFVI), which many at the time regarded as the best RPG of all time. Couple that with the the newness of 3D gaming and the impressive for the time CG cutscenes, people, especially those who hadn't yet played an RPG before or had dismissed them previously, ate it up. I admit that I thought at the time the 7-minute long summons were amazing, but I never really enjoyed FFVII that much.
For me it was the fact that I missed out on the SNES Final Fantasy games because I was a Sega/Phantasy Star fanboy at the time. FFVII was the first kind of futuristic FF games and I wanted the good old sword and board medievil/Tolkien FF setting.
Even though I didn't really enjoy FFVII, I do think it deserves some credit for the explosion of JRPG releases we saw during the PS1 era, considering FVII showed that JRPGs could sell well to a Western audience.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Memorable, and importantly, likeable characters, a great villain, a good story all round with unusually complex narrative techniques (playable flashbacks and inner-monologues incorporating an "unreliable narrator" trick), visually very impressive -albeit unevenly so- for its time, customarily excellent Uematsu soundtrack...
Final Fantasy VII is a classic.
If you don't like it, fine, taste's vary. But its every bit as good and as important a genre entry as its reputation suggests.
Final Fantasy VII is a classic.
If you don't like it, fine, taste's vary. But its every bit as good and as important a genre entry as its reputation suggests.
: Book your tickets for next fall Broadway Musical.Ghost_Protocol
Member
Nah, it was something else
I used to be a big XII defender but that game just doesn't do it for me anymore. Combat has always been boring, its only saving grace being that it was nonintrusive. Music nonexistent or forgettable. Only good character is balthier. Story started promising but fell off a cliff about 5 hours in. Whole bunch of copy/paste enemies and random bosses with no significance. I kept playing because of the exploration and side content, but that seems minuscule compared to some of today's games.
1) What makes a "good" character in your opinion? Do they just need to be charismatic? Because I would say Baasch, Vossler, Gabranth, Reddas, and Ashe are equally as interesting, likable and memorable (my definition of "good") as Balthier, but in different ways. Gabranth actually left more of an impact on me than anyone else in the game. Moreso than most every other character in the series tbh. He was outstanding.
2) I have no idea what you mean when you say the story fell off a cliff 5 hours in. You barely left Rabanastre with Balthier and Fran by that point in the game, if at all.....The story just started.
3) The enemies in FFXII are extraordinarily more varied than the enemies of any other game in the series, right down to unique death animations and attack patterns. Are you complaining that there are too many different forms of say, the Wolf, or the Urstrix (bird humanoid)? Or that you see a lot of the same enemy in larger areas? If its the former, every JRPG in existence evolves previous enemies into different versions in different areas, and if its the latter, it only seems that way because the battle system is real time and you can see every enemy (and how many you've killed in a chain) on the field. When you run through a cave in FFIV or FFVI, you encounter the same enemies over and over and over again, there just isn't a running tally on the screen to remind you of how many.
4) I don't think for an instant that the scale of FFXII is miniscule compared to today's games. Do you remember The Phon Coast, The Great Crystal, The Pharos at Ridoranna, or The Sochen Cave Palace? Those areas were massive, and not just for the sake of being massive.
Walter Matthau
Member
It's way more common now to put down FF7 than praise it. You won't find many people claiming its their favorite RPG or even their favorite in the series yet everyone wants SE to remake it for some reason. Maybe they expect it to be graphical marvel like the original was when it debuted.
MaddenNFL64
Member
I always liked 6 better. 7 is still great in my eyes as well. The environments for the time were outstanding, and it went at a fun pace for me.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
It's funny, imo it's the other way around... the first 10 hours are the worst part, the rest is ok.
While I first played the game in 1998, I didn't beat it until this past October (my brother erased my memory card and I didn't feel like playing through the game again).
My problem with the game is that it falls apart after the first disc. Once it stops being chase Sephiroth around the world map, the game gets a lot weaker, to me.
It's still a good game and deserves the praise it got (it was responsible for the RPG boom in the 90s). I just don't think it's the greatest RPG ever made.
My problem with the game is that it falls apart after the first disc. Once it stops being chase Sephiroth around the world map, the game gets a lot weaker, to me.
It's still a good game and deserves the praise it got (it was responsible for the RPG boom in the 90s). I just don't think it's the greatest RPG ever made.
DukeTogo1300
Member
This seems a little overblown. You know it got 8th in the GAF 100 right?
Walter Matthau
Member
I wasn't aware. It always seems like a common target in over-rated game threads and routinely pointed out as a game that doesn't hold up.
sleeping_dragon
Banned
If it wasn't for this game Square would be bankrupt and Square Enix would never existed. It was the last roll of the dice for Square at the time. On the question why it was so popular back then is because it was the first 3D final fantasy game and Cloud & Sephiroth were the coolest characters that ever created.
Dragoon X Omega
Member
Same here!
...Huh?
ChoklitReign
Member
I've played it and I'm in Shinra HQ saving Aeris. The trial-and-error puzzles/sense of direction and the increasingly tedious combat is getting on my nerves. This is a horrible place and I want to get out of Midgar (how far am I?)
sleeping_dragon
Banned
It was more than 10 years ago that I read this but as i recall it was Final Fantasy 7 that saved the company from filing bankruptcy since all the other Final Fantasy games did not do so well sales wise. I could be wrong though and it could be Final Fantasy 1 that saved the company because they only have the budget for one final game and they named it Final Fantasy.
DukeTogo1300
Member
FFI sounds more in tune with my vague memory of this.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah that was FF1.
This is where i think most of the praise comes from.
I wasn't impressed with FF7 when it came out and i certainly wouldn't call it the best or even one of the best. I wouldn't even put it in the top 50 jrpgs.
This is exactly it.
It is a time capsule, and when I play it I still have every feeling that I had at that time and it never ever fails to take me back.
I never expect more from it. It was an amazing experience when it hit, something that to anyone that could not experience it at that time I am genuinely sorry.
Phantasy Star..oh man, I remember my first time sitting down with Phantasy Star and not leaving the screen until the next morning. A series that people just can not understand until they play it.
sleeping_dragon
Banned
I think you are right, my bad.
Some of those FMV cut-scenes still look amazing today on the Vita OLED. Art really does trump all.
Some other interesting points from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
Some other interesting points from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
He's talking about the gaming community in general, not just GAF. It is true that it's more popular to slag VII than it is to praise it. It's been this way for quite some time now.
I think Symphony of the Night is actually better than FF VII in this regard.
Starsunder
Member
Horseshit.
BassForever
Member
It's like OoT, paved the way for where JRPGs would go, and while still a fun game to play it doesn't hold up as well as other games in the series. FF7 generally ends up in the middle of my list of best to worst mainline FF titles.
The difference being that OoT holds up remarkably well.
H_Prestige
Banned
Those guys just didn't resonate with me. Too overly dramatic. Balthier was just a cool dude with good lines and voice acting.
I may have gotten the time scale wrong. I'm talking about the part when you escape from the airship near the beginning. That was when the plot turned into "hey let's trek across huge acres of land to this abandoned shrine in the middle of no where to collect some ancient relic because balthier or ashe said we should".
Maybe it's been awhile but I just remember the same group of dogs, bats, birdmen, and chickens palette swapped over and over. Although that reminds of my first playthrough when I encountered some super strong rare chicken in the desert and kept wondering why it was beating the shit out of my party so hard.
Don't all those places pale in size compared to xenoblade's world?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Nostalgia is definitely a big factor but the fact that it doesn't hold up well in a number of ways is one of the reasons why I'm interested in a true blue remake. Along with a Square that's on top of their game. I dig the world, the style, the characters and the materia system.
I first played FFVII about a year after it released and it was technically the first RPG I ever beat. I've played it several times since and while it may not be the best RPG ever made, it still hold up today. Nostalgia plays a factor, yes, but there are other things going for it as a whole.
The translation might be a bit wonky, but the story holds up very well and was well put together for it's scale. Cloud, as the main character, changes and learns based off his experiences and goes from the cocky SOLDIER to a well rounded person that realizes who he really is and what he needs to do. I will say that some of the other characters are not nearly as well developed as they should have been and have always felt that Tifa's motivations early in the game are only there to justify the plot, not the character.
The music is absolutely fantastic. This is more subjective than anything else, but I find it has one of the best overall soundtracks of almost any RPG of the time.
Graphics will never hold up in 3d games. We should not base the quality of the game on the graphics, especially when that game was the first of it's kind on a console and released 16 years ago.
The combat system was actually quite well-balanced and allowed for character choice, not job choice in a situation. Did you like a character's motivations and dialogue more than some of the others? You weren't locked out because they sucked in battle or didn't do the most damage. You could rearrange their functions on a whim, giving all characters more versatility in combat and allowed for some of the most ridiculous and game-breaking combos of any FF game (VI was also pretty nuts in this aspect).
Overall, the game is a blast from the past that I feel deserves the recognition it gets. It's not the best RPG ever, but it is definitely one of the top ones for what it did at the time while still having all the elements that make up what people consider a 'Final Fantasy' game.
The translation might be a bit wonky, but the story holds up very well and was well put together for it's scale. Cloud, as the main character, changes and learns based off his experiences and goes from the cocky SOLDIER to a well rounded person that realizes who he really is and what he needs to do. I will say that some of the other characters are not nearly as well developed as they should have been and have always felt that Tifa's motivations early in the game are only there to justify the plot, not the character.
The music is absolutely fantastic. This is more subjective than anything else, but I find it has one of the best overall soundtracks of almost any RPG of the time.
Graphics will never hold up in 3d games. We should not base the quality of the game on the graphics, especially when that game was the first of it's kind on a console and released 16 years ago.
The combat system was actually quite well-balanced and allowed for character choice, not job choice in a situation. Did you like a character's motivations and dialogue more than some of the others? You weren't locked out because they sucked in battle or didn't do the most damage. You could rearrange their functions on a whim, giving all characters more versatility in combat and allowed for some of the most ridiculous and game-breaking combos of any FF game (VI was also pretty nuts in this aspect).
Overall, the game is a blast from the past that I feel deserves the recognition it gets. It's not the best RPG ever, but it is definitely one of the top ones for what it did at the time while still having all the elements that make up what people consider a 'Final Fantasy' game.
encephalon
Member
I don't really care what Kefka accomplished. I understand that it made him an interesting villain in his own right, but at least Square attempted to develop Sephiroth as an actual character, to the extent that FFVIII was a step back in that regard. Perhaps even moreso than your party members. I understand after all of the character worship fans are inclined to be sick and tired of him, but I honestly believe he is one of the better villains in the series. That being said, I prefer the villain being one that doesn't quite fit into the role of "villain" at all. And no, that's not FFXII's Vayne, it's FFX's Yu Yevon.
Personally, I see FFVII as a follow up to FFVI already pushing the story envelope. FFVII just took it further and made use of the CD drive to do so. It was my first RPG, but I prefer FFVIII and plenty of other JRPGs to FFVII so I don't see why that should make my opinion of the game any less valid. It was coincidence anyways; FFIX was already out and FFVII was what they had on store shelves for PC.
Personally, I see FFVII as a follow up to FFVI already pushing the story envelope. FFVII just took it further and made use of the CD drive to do so. It was my first RPG, but I prefer FFVIII and plenty of other JRPGs to FFVII so I don't see why that should make my opinion of the game any less valid. It was coincidence anyways; FFIX was already out and FFVII was what they had on store shelves for PC.
The game is based on a very detailed world.
What dos that mean? It means almost everyone has his/her past, present and future, built into the gameplay.
Do you have this kind of well-coordinated game world now?
FF8-10 did it in similar ways but failed to beat 7. I still remember the confusion the first time I entered the flashback in FF8. That was a trainwreck.
FF 12 and 13? You can only learn those by reading those log entries. They failed big times on constructing a world that makes you believe in it.
Without a convincing world as a background, anything built upon it is just some poor drama.
What dos that mean? It means almost everyone has his/her past, present and future, built into the gameplay.
Do you have this kind of well-coordinated game world now?
FF8-10 did it in similar ways but failed to beat 7. I still remember the confusion the first time I entered the flashback in FF8. That was a trainwreck.
FF 12 and 13? You can only learn those by reading those log entries. They failed big times on constructing a world that makes you believe in it.
Without a convincing world as a background, anything built upon it is just some poor drama.
FrontalMonk
Banned
I've been playing through it last year into this year, and FF7 remains my favorite in the series, for a few reasons.
1) dat 3d. My brother got a PSX when it first came out, but this was the first playstation game I ever owned. Everything about the game graphically completely blew me away when I played it. Not just the 3d...the scale of some of the monsters (diamond/ruby/emerald weapons, mainly) were mind boggling.
2) the game had the perfect progression of mechanics that has yet to be matched in the series. As you went through the game, you continued to discover unique mechanics in the game. At first all you have is attack and magic, and it grows from there. you keep getting more and more new things to learn and new mini games to play and new ways of traveling which doesn't stop until you get the highwind in disc 2...at which point you don't even have Cloud in your party any more.
3) by the same token, the sense of scope has never been rivaled in another FF game. The sense of amazement the first time you leave Midgar is something I've never experienced in another game...this is a city you spent like 8-10 hours in, a city I expected to spend the entire GAME in (keep in mind, I went into it totally blind) and then the game is like "oh btw, that's one blip on the map". When you get to Nibelheim for the first time since the flashback sequence, it felt like so much time had passed and that you'd come so far...it was instantly familiar and alien at the same time.
I'm also apparently the king of unpopular opinions on GAF, because behind FF7, my second favorite is probably FFX, because I enjoyed the battle system and the sphere grid and blitzball so much.
1) dat 3d. My brother got a PSX when it first came out, but this was the first playstation game I ever owned. Everything about the game graphically completely blew me away when I played it. Not just the 3d...the scale of some of the monsters (diamond/ruby/emerald weapons, mainly) were mind boggling.
2) the game had the perfect progression of mechanics that has yet to be matched in the series. As you went through the game, you continued to discover unique mechanics in the game. At first all you have is attack and magic, and it grows from there. you keep getting more and more new things to learn and new mini games to play and new ways of traveling which doesn't stop until you get the highwind in disc 2...at which point you don't even have Cloud in your party any more.
3) by the same token, the sense of scope has never been rivaled in another FF game. The sense of amazement the first time you leave Midgar is something I've never experienced in another game...this is a city you spent like 8-10 hours in, a city I expected to spend the entire GAME in (keep in mind, I went into it totally blind) and then the game is like "oh btw, that's one blip on the map". When you get to Nibelheim for the first time since the flashback sequence, it felt like so much time had passed and that you'd come so far...it was instantly familiar and alien at the same time.
I'm also apparently the king of unpopular opinions on GAF, because behind FF7, my second favorite is probably FFX, because I enjoyed the battle system and the sphere grid and blitzball so much.
I wouldn't go back and play FFVII right now simply because of the graphics. They do not hold up at all. (FFVI holds up, though, in it's precise pixel art ways.)
But the game was pretty groundbreaking at the time. Even the story was pretty different from RPGs at the time, with the psychological twists.
But the game was pretty groundbreaking at the time. Even the story was pretty different from RPGs at the time, with the psychological twists.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
- Brought RPG's to 3D. (Which while not superior to 2D, it was a whole new frontier.)
- Started adding cinematic flair to the genre. (This trend may be abused and overdone now, but it was fresh and great at the time.)
- Had a compelling and edearing cast. (Cloud's actually pretty fun and goofy for a good chunk of the game despite the stupid canon material, Yuffie was fun and spunky, Cid's badass, Vincent was just undeniably cool, etc.)
- Iconic Villain
- Gorgeous soundtrack
- Awesome, destopian somewhat sci-fi setting
- Cool sidequests and secrets
- I actually thought the materia system, as well as the minigames were fun
- The story, while not a literary masterpiece by any means, I thought was a compelling and fun ride.
It seems like you think the game's just archaic and clunky both aesthetically and functionally. Which frankly goes to show how much the game deserves a proper remake. For its time, it was a bleeding-edge, AAA killer-app. Without FFVII there wouldn't have been an RPG golden-age on the PS1. The RPG genre would be so lucky to get another VII now-a-days to revitalize it and deliver such an amazing gameplay experience at the same time.
It's easy to look back now and talk about the game's downsides, but the game's over 10 freaking years old! A lot of people like to complain about all the praise that VII gets, but honestly, I think it's this dismissive attitude towards VII that's grown to be really overplayed and tired. It just reeks of trying really hard to be contrarian.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Final Fantasy VII is still a great game to this day. Only the game's graphics and midi synth selection do not hold up well over time. But I'm a retro gamer anyway so poorly aging graphics don't bother me much.
The core gameplay was built upon Final Fantasy VI's systems, which is my personal favorite in the series. The Materia system was essentially trying to combine Espers and Relics into one system to streamline the process. The setting was well realized in narrative, though most people will focus on the specific things about the plot that were reaching a bit too far (a classic case of "great story, terrible plot"). And more than a lot of modern RPGs Japanese and Western, it was well paced and kept things moving forward with appropriate peaks and valleys on the pacing curve.
To this day I still put the disc in from time to time to play it. Gameplay is every bit as classic as I remember and if I had to choose between the shit game/beautifully looking FFXIII or the not-so-good-looking-anymore/great playing FFVII, I'll take VII any day.
The core gameplay was built upon Final Fantasy VI's systems, which is my personal favorite in the series. The Materia system was essentially trying to combine Espers and Relics into one system to streamline the process. The setting was well realized in narrative, though most people will focus on the specific things about the plot that were reaching a bit too far (a classic case of "great story, terrible plot"). And more than a lot of modern RPGs Japanese and Western, it was well paced and kept things moving forward with appropriate peaks and valleys on the pacing curve.
To this day I still put the disc in from time to time to play it. Gameplay is every bit as classic as I remember and if I had to choose between the shit game/beautifully looking FFXIII or the not-so-good-looking-anymore/great playing FFVII, I'll take VII any day.
Green Mamba
Member
Replaying the PS1 Final Fantasies recently and come to the conclusion that VII, as rough as it is around the edges, is a better game than VIII (just not very good at all) and IX (completely borked battle system ruins it). At the very least I will call it the best Final Fantasy of that generation.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Lol comparing XIII and VII is just brutal for XIII. (Which is sad cause before XIII came out and ended up being what it is, I was getting a lot of "VII for PS3" vibes potential from it.)
Ol No Bones
Banned
It isn't my favorite final fantasy game but there is something special about it.
Green Mamba
Member
Absolutely. Everyone who likes XIII likes to gush that Pulse is an open non-linear paradise but getting the Airship and Submarine in VII just shits on XIII's Pulse from such a high level that it isn't even fair.
Oh how low the mighty has fallen.
Similar threads
- Featured