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[Amir0x]

One of the central arguments often pushed by news media, history classes and individuals viewing violent protests is that innocent people and businesses are getting hurt, and all it serves to do is to obfuscate any message they wish to convey to the general public. After all, nobody would argue that this is the result people want. This is fucked up stuff. I think it's sad, most people think it's sad.

But acknowledging it is sad does not change the reality that this is the natural evolution of the injustices perpetrated against specific peoples, and that contrary to the narrative this stuff has worked countless times. In significant and hugely long term ways.

I'll try to keep this topic relatively contained so that people actually read it, so I'll center my argument around a few key articles and then open for discussion.

First, because the number one thing people who view violent protests as a pointless exercise is futility that ruins messages do is to quote Martin Luther King Jr. or point to his nonviolent movement as proof of the "right way", I thought we'd shortly discuss his perspective. The truth is that the reality is that nonviolence was not the sole tool of the civil rights movement, violence and killing and looting were a regular occurrence during the 60s, just like in Ferguson, just like we see in Baltimore today:

On August 11, 1965, a black motorist was arrested for drunk-driving, and a minor roadside argument suddenly turned into a riot. There followed six days of looting and arson, especially of white-owned businesses, and police needed the support of nearly 4,000 members of the California Army National Guard. There were 34 deaths and over $40 million in property damage. The riots were blamed principally on unemployment, although a later investigation also highlighted police racism. It was the city's worst unrest until the Rodney King riots of 1992.

Sound familiar? An injustice against an individual within a group of peoples spiraled into a hellstorm of violence and destruction. What is going on today is a joke compared to scale of the explosions of anger that went on in the 60s.

These often had huge impacts on changing local laws and eventually national ones. But what did Martin Luther King Jr. have to say on riots?

_____________________________

MLK Jr. On Riots
_____________________________


"I will agree that there is a group in the Negro community advocating violence now. I happen to feel that this group represents a numerical minority. Surveys have revealed this. The vast majority of Negroes still feel that the best way to deal with the dilemma that we face in this country is through non-violent resistance, and I don't think this vocal group will be able to make a real dent in the Negro community in terms of swaying 22 million Negroes to this particular point of view. And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years."

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

Speech

_____________________________

Examples of Violent Riots that Changed History
_____________________________


Now the important thing to do is recognize the reality that even though this is a shitty outcome, that violence is inevitable when those in power refuse to listen to the pleas of those they're supposed to serve when huge injustices are perpetrated.

But if these riots didn't work, there'd be no point, right? I agree. The problem is that they do sometimes work. Often. And for a huge range of issues. Here is an overview of just some, using various sources for your viewing. I mostly focused on US riots because that is where the unrest is currently going on. But most countries can point to riots like this which have worked. (Source 1, Source 2, Source 3, Source 4, Source 5, Source 6)


The Stonewall Riots:

This Sunday, June 28, will mark the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall riots, the event largely regarded as a catalyst for the LGBT movement for civil rights in the United States. The riots inspired LGBT people throughout the country to organize in support of gay rights, and within two years after the riots, gay rights groups had been started in nearly every major city in the United States.

At the time, there were not many places where people could be openly gay. New York had laws prohibiting homosexuality in public, and private businesses and gay establishments were regularly raided and shut down.

In the early hours of June 28, 1969, a group of gay customers at a popular gay bar in Greenwich Village called the Stonewall Inn, who had grown angry at the harassment by police, took a stand and a riot broke out. As word spread throughout the city about the demonstration, the customers of the inn were soon joined by other gay men and women who started throwing objects at the policemen, shouting "gay power."

Police reinforcements arrived and beat the crowd away, but the next night, the crowd returned, even larger than the night before, with numbers reaching over 1000. For hours, protesters rioted outside the Stonewall Inn until the police sent a riot-control squad to disperse the crowd. For days following, demonstrations of varying intensity took place throughout the city.

In the wake of the riots, intense discussions about civil rights were held among New York's LGBT people, which led to the formation of various advocacy groups such as the short-lived Gay Liberation Front, which was the first group to use the word "gay" in its name, and a city-wide newspaper called Gay. On the 1st anniversary of the Stonewall Riots, the first gay pride parades in U.S. history took place in Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, and near the Stonewall Inn in New York.

This was directly instrumental in galvanizing a community to forever change this country. It worked.

Student Revolt and Labor Strikes in France

After the Algerian crisis of the l950s, France entered a period of stability in the 1960s. The French empire was abolished, the economy improved, and President Charles de Gaulle was a popular ruler. Discontent lay just beneath the surface, however, especially among young students, who were critical of France’s outdated university system and the scarcity of employment opportunity for university graduates. Sporadic student demonstrations for education reform began in 1968, and on May 3 a protest at the Sorbonne (the most celebrated college of the University of Paris) was broken up by police. Several hundred students were arrested and dozens were injured.

In the aftermath of the incident, courses at the Sorbonne were suspended, and students took to the streets of the Latin Quarter (the university district of Paris) to continue their protests. On May 6, battles between the police and students in the Latin Quarter led to hundreds of injuries. On the night of May 10, students set up barricades and rioted in the Latin Quarter. Nearly 400 people were hospitalized, more than half of them police. Leftist students began calling for radical economic and political change in France, and union leaders planned strikes in support of the students. In an effort to defuse the crisis by returning the students to school, Prime Minister Georges Pompidou announced that the Sorbonne would be reopened on May 13.

..

In the two rounds of voting on June 23 and 30, the Gaullists won a commanding majority in the National Assembly. In the aftermath of the May events, de Gaulle’s government made a series of concessions to the protesting groups, including higher wages and improved working conditions for workers, and passed a major education reform bill intended to modernize higher education. After 11 years of rule, Charles de Gaulle resigned the presidency in 1969 and was succeeded by Pompidou. He died the next year just before his 80th birthday.

These riots that included killing police officers led to massive changes for workers and students alike.

The 'Snow' Riot of 1835

In August 1835, an angry mob of white laborers vandalized a restaurant operated by Beverly Snow, a free black man.

The unrest began when Arthur Bowen, a slave belonging to Mrs. Anna Maria Thornton, threatened to murder her. (Thornton was the well-known and highly-respected widow of William Thornton, architect of the U.S. Capitol.) Bowen came home drunk and entered her bedroom with an ax while she slept. His mother was also sleeping in the room and quickly escorted him out. However, Mrs. Thornton awoke terrified and ran to neighbors. When they returned, they heard Arthur say "I'll have my freedom, you hear me? I have as much right to freedom as you do."

..

ARTHUR BOWEN'S MIDNIGHT RAMBLE was followed by Washington's first race riot, an outbreak of violence that has largely been forgotten.

Pro and anti-slavery forces crystallized during that particular time period and also emerged in Congress in the years following the riot. The electoral map of the U.S. still corresponds roughly to the divisions between the red and blue states to this day.

I included this one for complexity's sake, because this was a riot by white racists which happened to change the face of America forever. We STILL face the repercussions of this riot today.

1921 Battle of Blair Mountain

Rising as high as 2,064 feet, Blair Mountain was both the symbolic and real hurdle that confronted miners wishing to bring union protection to the miners of Mingo, Logan, Mercer, and McDowell counties. The ridge offered only the most inhospitable conditions for a march: steep slopes, heavy timber, and rocky terrain. It also afforded high points that were good outposts for defensive scouts, including massive rock formations that served as strong defensive positions. The topography of the region dictated the course of the confrontation, and is therefore extremely significant.

The American industrial revolution brought with it massive, rapid changes in the way citizens lived and worked. Work in fast-paced, dangerous environments dictated new levels of adherence to standards of timekeeping, regularity, and safety. For Americans accustomed to the farm life and in-home production of goods, this often meant a radical adjustment. As large corporations emerged and began competing with one another in the stock market, businesses often increased production and allowed safety to diminish as a means of staying solvent. Coal mines struggled to provide the growing iron, steel, and railroad industries with the fuel that was so important to their growth. Though yielding relatively low profit return on a high labor investment, and incredibly dangerous, the mining of coal was integrally important to the industrial growth of the nation. Repeated accidents resulted in growing activism in the mines of Pennsylvania and other states, and by the end of the 19th century, coal strikes were commonplace as a means of building the miners' unions.

In the early twentieth century, coal alone fueled American industry. Work stoppages threatened steel production and the railroads, and political and economic pressure to maintain order in the coalfields allowed coal companies a great deal of latitude. Increasingly, however, mine workers began to organize as a way to withstand the industry's back-breaking demands and garner a small piece of its extraordinary profits. These efforts were consistently resisted by the coal companies, whose suppression of the unions were also supported by a widespread national fear of bolshevism following the Russian revolution.

The Battle of Blair Mountain took place between August 30 and September 4, 1921. Spruce Fork Ridge formed a natural dividing line between union and non-union territories. On August 30, the miners began their assault on Blair Mountain. Defensive positions blocked the miners along on the upper slopes of the ridge, with particular concentrations at the gaps: Mill Creek, Crooked Creek, Beech Creek and Blair Mountain. Here the defensive force dug trenches, felled trees, blocked roads, built breastworks and placed machine guns. Most of the hostilities between the two groups occurred along the fifteen-mile ridgeline, reflecting the miners' use of natural pathways up and over the ridge to breach Chafin's line.

During the battle, private planes organized by the defensive militia dropped as many as ten homemade bleach and shrapnel bombs at Jeffrey, Blair, and near the miners' headquarters on Hewitt Creek. In Charleston, eleven Army Air Corps pilots arrived, led by Billy Mitchell, a pioneer in aerial bombardment who was eager to experiment with the strategy. While troops were used in labor disputes throughout the nation during this era, West Virginia alone bears the distinction of having been the focus - and potential target - of military aircraft. Fortunately, the Army did not allow Mitchell to bomb the miners; the military planes performed reconnaissance flights.

Although they did not win the Battle of Blair Mountain, the miners accomplished a great deal in their revolt. It forced national scrutiny of their situation in the press and in the federal government. They amassed sufficient force to require intervention by the United States Army, and they broke down racial and ethnic barriers to the solidarity they would need later when they did organize. Following sanctioning legislation in the 1930s, the UMWA became the leading force in organizing the nation's industrial workers. UMWA president John L. Lewis formed the Congress of Industrial Organizations in 1937, which spearheaded the struggles for unionization in the auto, rubber, steel and other industries.

The impact is self-explanatory. It was a pivotal moment in the labor movement.

_____________________________

Discussion
_____________________________

The point of all this is not to come here and endorse violent riots as the "way to go" when you want change. The point is to highlight the high level of complexity that is actually involved in these assessments. Violent riots DO work, and have worked many times throughout history and in many countries. They have worked to effect both short term and long term solutions, or to spark movements which critically changes the countries they were in.

This does not mean we have to like them. They are a sad result, but thinking they are sad does not change the root causes. And unless we accept the root causes and that these are the natural results of situations where those in power do not listen to the cries for help of those they are supposed to serve, we're never going to fix the problems that led to these violent revolts in the first place.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I find it highly ironic that a country that was founded because a bunch of old white guys rioted over taxes (That MOST DIDN'T EVEN PAY), somehow finds when Black folks are angered at their fellow members are being murdered by police without any justification and getting away with it as "animals".

Fuck you hypocritical racist pieces of shit.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Is anyone arguing rioting?

My main problem is looting.

 

[Amir0x]

Is anyone arguing rioting?

My main problem is looting.

Looting is almost always a part of riots in cities. Disconnecting the two is disingenuous at best. They happen because people are angry and blindly lash out due to that anger. Anger often results in irrational acts, but these acts have profound impacts when done on the scale of riots.

 

[jmood88]

Great job on this thread.

 

[Kinsei]

Great OP. Not much else to add other than a good job Amir0x!

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Looting is almost always a part of riots in cities.

edit: That came out wrong.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Excellent topic, as always.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I was this thread could be stickied, nice one Ami.

 

[Amir0x]

But the one example of looting you even mentioned was from a black riot.

If you want I can list another zillion for you where just that happened, but I was trying to have a very small sample so the OP wasn't endless. I wanted people to try to read as best as they could. My focus was on changes that resulted from rioting.

 

[jmood88]

But the one example of looting you even mentioned was from a black riot.

Lmao, oh lord.

 

[Mizerman]

Nice topic, OP.

I seriously hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

 

[Enzom21]

But the one example of looting you even mentioned was from a black riot.

What's your point? Are you saying only black people loot?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

If you want I can list another zillion for you where just that happened, but I was trying to have a very small sample so the OP wasn't endless. I wanted people to try to read as best as they could. My focus was on changes that resulted from rioting.

I am for rioting. I really am. Especially in this situation.

But damaging local business just hurts the city you live in.

 

[the_sun_king]

That second paragraph of the quote from MLK hits it on the head (I'd bold all of it, personally). It's sad that in all the years since that quote the U.S. hasn't seemed to progress much at all on a lot of fronts.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

One step forward, two steps back

 

[Mikey Jr.]

What's your point? Are you saying only black people loot?

That came out wrong. I just looked at his examples and I wanted to see where looting was part of the social change, not rioting.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It would be less grating if people ignorant of history would just admit that they don't care about the plights of people rioting, instead of appearing to appeal to some nebulous good.

 

[IISANDERII]

Like I said in the other thread: If it weren't for violent uprising, nearly the entire world would be at the mercy of kings and queens, starving and dying on their whim.

 

[dream]

For me, I see looting as a lost opportunity. The anger, the violence, the aggression should be focused on the people who represent the institution that has declared you to be bare life.

 

[Somnid]

I'm curious how many violent riots resulted in forms of social relapse versus non-violent protests.

 

[Amir0x]

That came out wrong. I just looked at his examples and I wanted to see where looting was part of the social change, not rioting.

To put this another way, in most of these riots looting was at least a partial part of it, but so was violence. There's no actual way to parse that it was the looting part that helped affect the change or if it was the violence. The good odds are that it is the violence, and violence is certainly less good than looting wouldn't you agree? But they're both part of the same event. So 'rioting' includes both, and it is a sad part of the end result of injustice over a long period of time.

I'm curious how many violent riots resulted in forms of social relapse versus non-violent protests.

This is a fascinating and complicated question because for many violent riots it is followed by short term moments of regressive policies followed later by clear long term changes to laws that were also a direct result from the same riot.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

To put this another way, in most of these riots looting was at least a partial part of it, but so was violence. There's no actual way to parse that it was the looting part that helped affect the change or if it was the violence. The good odds are that it is the violence, and violence is certainly less good than looting wouldn't you agree? But they're both part of the same event. So 'rioting' includes both, and it is a sad part of the end result of injustice over a long period of time.

I am with the black citizens on the on justice by the police of Baltimore. I really am.

I don't live in or even close to Baltimore, so at the end of the day I'm not going to say what people should or should not do.

But I believe this widespread destruction/looting is just going to hurt the city and the citizens in the end. The mom and pop stores don't have any say on the law. They are just trying to survive like anyone else.
All this does is just have regular people leave Baltimore, or businesses deciding to start in Baltimore just won't.

 

[gutter_trash]

in some cases, Anarchy can bring on the opposite desired effect when the side of anarchy loses

 

[-Eddman-]

As a mexican, living in a country where the official rethoric used by governments and the upper class has always been "protest is useless, riots are for lazy parasites and manipulated by my adversaries", I really like the way you are presenting this argument. Thanks.

 

[ReAxion]

Quoting MLK is ridiculous. He was killed for literally being MLK.

 

[The Illiterati]

You did a good job with the thread. From an academic and historical sense you've shown some examples where riots accomplished something. However when we don't have the comfort of hindsight and the distance of years, I don't see any reason to be high minded about it.

I find the way non-Caucasian people(being real general here) are being treated by the police disgusting and deplorable. Real consequences for these abuses of power should come for these people and sweeping change in the police force would be wonderful. However when I read about rioting and looting and violence taking place out of the frustration of the lack of change, I don't feel I have to take a academic view of it. I don't feel the need to support rioting in order to show my anti-racist feelings. I only mention this as regards the forum itself as just from lurking those threads it feels like if you're not in support of rioting you don't understand what they are rioting for.

 

[Amir0x]

I am with the black citizens on the on justice by the police of Baltimore. I really am.

I don't live in or even close to Baltimore, so at the end of the day I'm not going to say what people should or should not do.

But I believe this widespread destruction/looting is just going to hurt the city in the end. The mom and pop stores don't have any say on the law. They are just trying to survive like anyone else.
All this does is just have regular people leave Baltimore, or businesses deciding to start in Baltimore just won't.

I absolutely agree. It's going to hurt the city. Most riots do hurt the places they take place in. They KILL people. Do the people who are killed care about the justice of the cause in those final moments? I'd argue very few probably do, unless they are martyr's for the cause. My argument is not that this isn't painful, it's not that innocent people don't unfortunately get hurt. It's basically:

1. This is the natural result of years of injustice not being solved by those in power. We must fix those injustices if this is to stop.
2. That violent riots, which often include looting, frequently do work, and so its utility has to be understood when analyzing the horror of these events.
3. News media/individuals which try to argue that violent protests solely serve to obfuscate the message of those oppressed peoples are simply spouting shallow garbage that intentionally ignores the reality of history.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's sad how many cries of "rioting is pointless" are piling up in the other thread while this thread stands...

 

[gutter_trash]

It's sad how many cries of "rioting is pointless" are piling up in the other thread while this thread stands...

because most of the riots hurt the working class, business owners and workers instead of the upstairs elite who sits far away from the trouble zone

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

because most of the riots hurt the working class, business owners and workers instead of the upstairs elite who sits far away from the trouble zone

Did you read the OP or nah

 

[wildfire]

I doubt any of the people saying rioting doesn't have an impact will make their case in this thread.

 

[Somnid]

This is a fascinating and complicated question because for many violent riots it is followed by short term moments of regressive policies followed later by clear long term changes to laws that were also a direct result from the same riot.

I think it's both. Sometimes immediate ground is given but harbors resentment that bubbles up a generation later. I mean the 1960s got results but clearly there was still a lot left under the surface.

 

[Amir0x]

I think it's both. Sometimes immediate ground is given but harbors resentment that bubbles up a generation later. I mean the 1960s got results but clearly there was still a lot left under the surface.

Yeah but then that begs the question: Is the animosity that bubbled to the surface a result of these riots, or is it just that these riots didn't solve every problem that existed institutionally and that this is the "chickens coming home to roost" on the problems that have yet to be resolved?

 

[gutter_trash]

Did you read the OP or nah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziOFk5n9Fs

 

[Lightning_Roller]

This thread needs more views so others can see this. Great work Amir0x.

 

[Kinyou]

Quoting MLK is ridiculous. He was killed for literally being MLK.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why does that make quoting him ridiculous?

 

[Smellycat]

I am sorry, but no. Rioting and looting are very ineffective and at best produce superficial results. Sure, laws might be changed, but that is all you are doing. You are not earning the respect of other people and certainly not being the bigger man. You are just adding more fuel to how racists view you. There are other ways you can make your voices heard. Looting and resorting to unnecessary violence simply aren't some of those ways.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Well done OP. Fantastic thread.

 

[Henchmen21]

I'm curious how many violent riots resulted in forms of social relapse versus non-violent protests.

Depends on the successfulness of the riots really.

 

[Amir0x]

I am sorry, but no. Rioting and looting are very ineffective and at best produce superficial results. Sure, laws might be changed, but that is all you are doing. You are not earning the respect of other people and certainly not being the bigger man. You are just adding more fuel to how racists view you. There are other ways you can make your voices heard. Looting and resorting to unnecessary violence simply aren't some of those ways.

Superficial like changing history forever, changing laws that forever alter the lives of oppressed people, and even overthrowing governments. I don't think you know what "superficial" means.

Additionally, it's not about liking the riots or those participating in violence or looting. It's about accepting that it often DOES work, and that this is going to continue to be the end result of horrible injustices against communities and people as it has always been throughout history. You don't have to like something to understand that this something might still make meaningful changes.

 

[Pastry]

I am sorry, but no. Rioting and looting are very ineffective and at best produce superficial results. Sure, laws might be changed, but that is all you are doing. You are not earning the respect of other people and certainly not being the bigger man. You are just adding more fuel to how racists view you. There are other ways you can make your voices heard. Looting and resorting to unnecessary violence simply aren't some of those ways.

I don't buy that at all. They never had respect in the first place, what is there to lose in this instance. These "other ways" to make voices heard have been largely ineffective for the past 40 years. Rioting is the manifestation of frustration from the ineffectiveness of these other ways.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

____________________________

MLK Jr. On Riots
_____________________________


"I will agree that there is a group in the Negro community advocating violence now. I happen to feel that this group represents a numerical minority. Surveys have revealed this. The vast majority of Negroes still feel that the best way to deal with the dilemma that we face in this country is through non-violent resistance, and I don't think this vocal group will be able to make a real dent in the Negro community in terms of swaying 22 million Negroes to this particular point of view. And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years."

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

Holy shit, that MLK Jr quote is still as relevant to today as it was in the 1960's... And that's just really, really sad.

 

[The Adder]

Fuck history, I know what's best!

Okay.

 

[CountAntonius]

Great OP but the most relevant riot to the current events in America are the LA riots. They accomplished literally shit as the LAPD and police corruption is as bad as ever. They were brutal to watch.

 

[gutter_trash]

the Rodney King riots sure did change the way the cops behave

 

[Mizerman]

I'm not sure what you mean. Why does that make quoting him ridiculous?

Because some people tend to name drop MLK as a way to discourage comments about riots.

Forgetting the fact that he and many others were constantly attacked by police dogs, high-pressure fire hoses, arrested many times and our very government was keeping secret tabs on him just for an excuse to bring him down?

Not to mention he was assassinated. He and many others had to become freaking martyrs.

All of this just to get the basic rights denied to them.

I am sorry, but no. Rioting and looting are very ineffective and at best produce superficial results. Sure, laws might be changed, but that is all you are doing. You are not earning the respect of other people and certainly not being the bigger man. You are just adding more fuel to how racists view you. There are other ways you can make your voices heard. Looting and resorting to unnecessary violence simply aren't some of those ways.

Sounds like an excuse and I dislike excuses. Racists will be racist and look down on black people no matter what, so there opinions mean nothing. What "other ways" you want to happen that has failed in the past?

 

[crisdecuba]

Great thread, Amirox, and worthy of thoughtful discussion!

 

[Amir0x]

the Rodney King riots sure did change the way the cops behave

This is a straw man because nobody argued that every violent riot works. Your arguments so far have been quite poor.

 

[Pagusas]

Looting is almost always a part of riots in cities. Disconnecting the two is disingenuous at best. They happen because people are angry and blindly lash out due to that anger. Anger often results in irrational acts, but these acts have profound impacts when done on the scale of riots.

BS. Looting happens because some people are just plain moraless hooligans that will take advantage of any situation. They are disgusting leaches of society and they come in all racises, colors, genders and religions.