Nah, Conspiracy was one of the few good season 1 episodes.
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What Is The Dumbest Episode Of Star Trek TNG?
- Thread starter Schlorgan
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I agree, I really wish they found some creative way to bring them up again. It was an unusually grand and epic episode for season 1
It's fitting in terms of how terrible the show is, how it just throws in random plot devices "because reasons", and how it adds two *major* character developments that should have been done over a season or two almost as throwaway lines. But considering the fruit that was dangled in front of anyone who actually watched the entire show was "what will happen when they get back?" was reduced to a single "set a course for home" was awful
It's definitely the perfect showcase for Voyager as a show though. Everything started and ended in one neat little episode, with Janeway as inconsistent as ever
Dang you're right, that was a great episode. I often forget just how good Enterprise got after the first two seasons when most of us had given up watching.
Yeah, the fact that we didn't get any kind of aftermath or seeing how any of them would re-assimilate to life back on Earth pissed me off tremendously. And no, the alternate future we see at the start of the finale doesn't count.
Janeway getting promoted to admiral is the most fitting thing since Starfleet admirals are almost unilaterally either scumbags or suck at their job. Even Kirk wasn't immune.
Here's the thing, had that episode aired during the middle of the season
and changed certain Trip related plot ideas
Also Masks is the worst TNG episode by far.
I watched and finished Enterprise about two years ago and it was a shockingly pleasant surprise for me. After finishing Voyager (which, and I'm not joking, was a legitimately tough effort because Voyager is bad) I went into Enterprise expecting the worst because I was fully aware of the show's reputation for being the worst series. Seasons 1 and 2 were mediocre, but that season 3/4 turnaround was shockingly good. Season 3 was basically Enterprise doing the entire Voyager concept better than Voyager, and Season 4 was pretty much a solid season of TNG. By the end, I was legitimately upset that Enterprise got cancelled because it was a damn good return to form.
They wanted them to be this big menace looming over the Federation throughout the series, but they were too powerful and too creepy so they abandoned the idea. They reused the concept of 'lone creatures signaling back home for help' with the Borg, who eventually served as the big evil species for the series.
They also wanted the Ferengi to be the big bad over the series as well, but then the Ferengi went over like a wet fart. The season 1 episode "The Neutral Zone" ends with a tease that someone was taking shit from the Neutral Zone and neither the Romulans or Federation knew who it was. That was originally going to be the Ferengi, I believe, but it was kind of retconned to be The Borg.
Man, the Borg really were the biproduct of other previous plans failing
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I have never seen the last two seasons of Enterprise. I don't know why but I dropped it after the cliffhanger at the end of season 2. So I've never seen the finale.
I've also never watched much of TOS.
I have seen all of TNG, DS9 and Voyager though.
What are the worst episodes of TOS and DS9? I mean we already know the answer to Voyager.
I've also never watched much of TOS.
I have seen all of TNG, DS9 and Voyager though.
What are the worst episodes of TOS and DS9? I mean we already know the answer to Voyager.
Crazymoogle
Member
Yep.
The Ferengi were really Gene's ideal villain because they had all of the traits he was trying to show humanity had moved on from. But the script and portrayal played them off as ineffective capitalists.
A lot of the shows success was it's ability to adapt. Turning away the details of Gene's vision while keeping the ethical heart made for a much better series.
The last two season of Enterprise are actually considered to be the best. It's not fantastic by any means, but season 3 has a cool arc, and season 4 wraps up many plotholes from prior shows.
The worst TOS episode is Spock's Brain, no doubt. A civilization of women are run by a man's brain and after it dies, they need a new one.
The worst DS9 episode is "Let He Who is Without Sin" where Worf and Dax go to Risa and hang out and argue the whole episode.
Also the baseball episode was pretty bad.
Valdfellgar
Banned
I don't think Voyager is nearly as bad as people on Gaf make it out to be. Rewatching it with my Wife and it undoubtedly has more clunkers every season than TNG or DS9, and there are also places where the writing is indeed inconsistent, but there's still a lot of good fun to be had. Heck, she's enjoying it as someone who loved TNG, and found DS9 a bit disappointing for all the praise it receives.
Though maybe that's because we don't do a full watch through. We read the episode's logline/tease and skip if it sounds bad/boring. Still watch like 75% of each season though. Just finished Scorpion parts 1 and 2. She loved those, was super eager to see how it ended.
The later seasons of Voyager progressively get worse, in my opinion. I'll spoiler it for anyone not done with the series but
Basically near the end if the episode didn't center around The Doctor and/or Seven of Nine it was a bore.
Janeway's inconsistent writing and poor character only get worse, Chakotay becomes a progressively irrelevant character as does Harry Kim, Paris and Torres become parodies of themselves. And you forget that Voyager is stranded all by itself since any damage or crew losses the ship receives are ignored come next episode.
DangerStepp
Member
Beverly does it with a Ghost: The Thread.
StarCreator
Member
I never understood the episode where present-Picard had to kill future-Picard.
We're getting off topic, but Voyager is worse than that. It is the worst Trek has to offer.
It's so enamored with technology and technobabble, it's hardly identifiable as Star Trek. The characters are all lame, and the most interesting ones -- Seven and The Doctor -- are, surprise! products of technology. The show gets so ridiculous with its worship of technology that the captain begins routinely soliciting advice not from her crew but rather a holographic simulation.
Valdfellgar
Banned
I guess we'll see how I feel when we get there. I don't remember hating it though.
i don't know that I'd disagree that it's the worst Star Trek, but outside of the clunkers it's still a fun show.
Once they just had Wesley returning to the show as opposed to saving everyone every other episode a la S1, he was a great character.
The funny thing about the Borg and the best Star Trek villains is they're all mirror or warped versions of the Federation. The Borg are the Federation except the celebration of individuality removed and replaced with enforced uniformity and no respect for cultural distinction. The Dominion are the Federation except peaceful coexistence with others replaced with forced integration. The Cardassians are the Federation except with the respect for law and the government turned into a fascist adoration of it. In retrospect, it's not at all surprising the Ferengi wouldn't be great villains, they're mostly just intended to be a mirror to present-day capitalist humans (and now, not even modern-day, but that 1980s Gordon Gecko-styled strain) and don't pose the same existential threat to the good guys.
biggersmaller
Banned
Time Squared is a great S2 episode.
Overall Season 2 gets more love from me than others. Somehow people often rope it in with Season 1. I mean, Pulaski alone is better than Crusher in every way and makes it a better season than most.
Nah, Pulaski is a crappy attempt at recreating the magic of Dr McCoy but she just comes off as senile and bitchy and lacks some of the subtle and not-so-subtle comedy that Bones had. Crusher isn't that great but she at least doesn't feel like a ripoff of a better character. Crusher also has a major MILF factor going on.
i vote The Cost of Living. most of the episode is about Lwaxana Troi and Worf's kid Alexander ditching everyone to go to a holodeck simulation of a planet of free spirits. it is a nightmarish realm of forced whimsy - Cirque Du Soleil as a bad acid trip. large chunks of time are spent w the two complaining while sitting with freaks in a mud bath. upon arriving there to check it out Worf encounters the below monstrosity, a head painted like a rubix cube, floating in a bubble, and prone to making derpy o-faces.
This episode was saved from being absolute worst by having Troi covered in mud at the end.
Switch Crusher and Pulaski and I'd agree with you. They're both terrible but at least Pulaski had some sort of character, even if it was a tone-deaf copy of McCoy
Phlox is excellent
Code of Honour wins. Racism and sexism all in one tidy little package.
A lot of season one was bad. It's amazing it made it to season two but people were pretty desperate for sci-fi TV at the time. Good thing it did because there's a lot people who think TNG is the best thing ever.
Interesting to see how opinions vary. I liked Voyager and hated DS9. Annoying characters in DS9 and too political and too religious for my liking, and they beat those themes to death in DS9.
I'm currently watching Enterprise because I haven't watched it before. Apparently they had budget concerns and had to cheap out on a lot of episodes. It shows. The writing is also pretty simplistic. 10 minutes in and you can guess the twist. Then I'm thinking if that's the twist then this episode is lame. There are a lot of lame episodes.
Enterprise is still better than DS9 though.
A lot of season one was bad. It's amazing it made it to season two but people were pretty desperate for sci-fi TV at the time. Good thing it did because there's a lot people who think TNG is the best thing ever.
Interesting to see how opinions vary. I liked Voyager and hated DS9. Annoying characters in DS9 and too political and too religious for my liking, and they beat those themes to death in DS9.
I'm currently watching Enterprise because I haven't watched it before. Apparently they had budget concerns and had to cheap out on a lot of episodes. It shows. The writing is also pretty simplistic. 10 minutes in and you can guess the twist. Then I'm thinking if that's the twist then this episode is lame. There are a lot of lame episodes.
Enterprise is still better than DS9 though.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
The Irish episode, which was only outdone when Voyager managed to be even more racist over a decade later.
Seriously, what kind of Irish people did you have in the US in the 80's and 90's that made you hate us so much?
Seriously, what kind of Irish people did you have in the US in the 80's and 90's that made you hate us so much?
I would actually say the opposite about Janeway. The first 2 seasons or so they clearly wanted her to be the best at everything. On several occasions she rushes down to a lab to help because she's a scientist (which isn't really ever expanded upon), she runs down to engineering to help, hell she even takes over flying the ship from Paris who was considered so good they busted him out of prison to fly. Eventually they focused her more on solely being a captain and she became much more bearable.
You are right though, every Seven of Nine-focused episode ended up being the highlight.
Crusher gets some good episodes later in the run (and yeah, then "Sub Rosa".) TNG had a serious issue writing for its women that didn't get addressed until way late (although the goofy girl's talk Troi and Crusher had, often with their space aerobics getups, are still unintentionally hilarious and actually some of the few good spots of characterization they got earlier on.)
I think the biggest reason people hated Pulaski is she basically acted like a dick about Data (aka one of the most popular characters.) I even understand her reasoningif you've designed a sufficiently advanced computer, would you be able to draw the line about what is programming and what is independent, sentient thought?but she basically talks about him being a toy when he's right in the same goddamn room. McCoy had spades more tact than that.
Yeah, and she does some of that shit after we've already had an episode focused around establishing that Data has the same rights as any other sentient being in the Federation - Measure of a Man happens during the Dr Pulaski season. So she just comes off like a bitch.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
She was a luddite without having a good reason for being one. At least McCoy had valid concerns about the transporters.
Crusher does get a much better episode than Pulaski in Remember Me, but I tend to discount it because that would have worked with any other character too. She just doesn't really have many memorable character traits other than 'Wesleys Mum'
For your viewing pleasure, Sub Rosa
(That was just my favorite line, this earlier part of the episode contains pure gold)
(That was just my favorite line, this earlier part of the episode contains pure gold)
Working my way through Voyager now and just finished the 2 Hiirogen eps with the nazi holodecks.
One thing that felt jarring to me watching like 6 a day was adding Seven. The show has no sexiness at all and then they add that character and it just felt soooo forced. Ryan does good work playing the character at least.
Also, you can remodulate anything and win whatever you need to win. Toaster not working? Remodulate the phase couplers.
One thing that felt jarring to me watching like 6 a day was adding Seven. The show has no sexiness at all and then they add that character and it just felt soooo forced. Ryan does good work playing the character at least.
Also, you can remodulate anything and win whatever you need to win. Toaster not working? Remodulate the phase couplers.
That was a creepy as fuck episode and rather quite good
I think the main difference is that Spock wasn't trying to be human, while Data was. Spock had essentially made the choice to mostly reject his human side and live in the Vulcan way, according to Vulcan logic and Vulcan customs. He was confident in this choice and frequently went on about how humans were illogical and so on. McCoy (and the occasional other member of the crew) gave him shit for it, but there was never any doubt that Spock was comfortable with himself and the way he lived. McCoy arguing with or insulting Spock never felt like anybody was punching down.
Meanwhile, here's Data. He's the only sentient android in, as far as anybody knows, the whole galaxy. And his entire life is built on trying to understand and emulate human behavior, despite the fact that he literally could not experience emotions even if he wanted to. And he does. Now here comes Pulaski, who sees this unique being and decides she's just going to shit all over him constantly for not being what he cannot be even though he tries with everything he is.
There's also a pretty big gulf between early series Bashir and late series Bashir.
He's pretty much the comic relief in a lot of S1-S2 episodes.
Nope. Still the worst.
This is both hilarious and illuminating, I at one point criticized that ep by calling it Stargate's "Code of Honor" but never thought to check the writers.
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