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What Is The Dumbest Episode Of Star Trek TNG?

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It's not even a contest. Sub Rosa is the worst Star Trek episode of any of the series. Spock's Brain is a masterpiece in comparison. It's like they took a script for a hoaky Lifetime Halloween movie and twisted it into a Star Trek episode, while ruining Beverly Crusher's character and the actress's dignity along the way.

sub_ghostboy.jpg
 

IC5

Member
I just watched the season 3 special features. They said that the head of writing was new, most of the writing staff was new, and they started taking script idea submissions from nearly anyone who would sign a waiver (one example being a guy who was a waiter, in New York). All because they started the shooting schedule, with only 2 or 3 scripts ready.

No wonder season 3 sucked.
 

IC5

Member
You watched a very different TNG than I did. Season 3 is when the show became watchable.
I skipped most of season 1. Mostly liked season 2. Skipped through most of season 3. Season 4 is, so far, seeming similar to 3...
 

benjipwns

Banned
If you watch just these two clips you don't realize how bad the whole thing is.

"30?!?!?" - Picard

Didn't the episode even end with them teasing the return of those parasites again?
They wanted them to be this big menace looming over the Federation throughout the series, but they were too powerful and too creepy so they abandoned the idea. They reused the concept of 'lone creatures signaling back home for help' with the Borg, who eventually served as the big evil species for the series.
The parasites send out a message to somewhere far away at the end of the episode.

Then as you mention the Romulans show up because someone is tearing up shit in the Neutral Zone.

This became the Borg, who were originally supposed to be an insect-like species (hence all their hive stuff and so on, eventually a queen, etc.)...but budget meant it looked like shit so they became more humans in outfits and actually wound up working out better and scarier than the original idea until Voyager turned them into their Ferengi.

The parasites are followed up on in the semi-canon novels. They're enemies of the Trill or rogue Trill or something I forget. They come back and assassinate some people which sets off some mysteries that eventually resolves in that. At the same time they try to clean up the Trill inconsistencies between TNG and DS9. (The novels actually later do the same thing for the Borg to explain why they suddenly shit the bed after running into Janeway.)
 

Branduil

Member
If you watch just these two clips you don't realize how bad the whole thing is.

"30?!?!?" - Picard



The parasites send out a message to somewhere far away at the end of the episode.

Then as you mention the Romulans show up because someone is tearing up shit in the Neutral Zone.

This became the Borg, who were originally supposed to be an insect-like species (hence all their hive stuff and so on, eventually a queen, etc.)...but budget meant it looked like shit so they became more humans in outfits and actually wound up working out better and scarier than the original idea until Voyager turned them into their Ferengi.

The parasites are followed up on in the semi-canon novels. They're enemies of the Trill or rogue Trill or something I forget. They come back and assassinate some people which sets off some mysteries that eventually resolves in that. At the same time they try to clean up the Trill inconsistencies between TNG and DS9. (The novels actually later do the same thing for the Borg to explain why they suddenly shit the bed after running into Janeway.)
Curious how you would even explain that in a non-dumb way.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Actually, the post-series "Relaunch" novels in general are pretty good, with DS9 and TNG leading the way.

Much better than the ones that were coming out while the shows were on that couldn't establish their own canon and often didn't really know the characters. New Frontier only managed that because it had a single author and was distanced from the shows.
Curious how you would even explain that in a non-dumb way.
iirc, it's related to Hugh

something about that whole thing (where later he splits off with his own cube, and Lore has his own batch of Borg) introducing some kind of malignancy into the hivemind that grew over time
 

jb1234

Member
I skipped most of season 1. Mostly liked season 2. Skipped through most of season 3. Season 4 is, so far, seeming similar to 3...

Yeah, the rest of the series pretty much follows the tone of season 3. If you weren't happy with that, you might as well stop watching.
 
One of the earlier Wesley ones, probably. Back when he was still Roddenberry's golden boy, before Roddenberry got pushed out. The Game is as good a candidate as any, not least because the game in question was so utterly insipid looking.

I think this is one of the most ridiculous aspects about the Federation lore that they've tried to create.

Not a military organisation...bullshit, it's the USN in space.

Everything about it is military, from the command structure to the disciplinary regulations.

You're not going to send out a ship filled with 1000+ people, light years from help, into space on ships with multiple weapon systems, facing numerous threats and not give the command crew serious tactical training in all kinds of military operations, from ground combat to fleet manoeuvrings.

The world in Star trek is just as miserable & dangerous as it is in the 21st century, it's just all the conflict takes place off Earth.

DS9 does a great job of hammering this home in a couple of places. The dichotomy between Earth's utopia and the rest of the galaxy. "Everyone's a saint in paradise."

Not much happens in the way of structural changes for Star Fleet, mind, but it was nice to see the argument articulated on screen.

Wait a second here, DS9 is only as good as Voyager?

*head explodes*

There is DS9 and then there's the rest of Trek.

Seconded.

I imagine this to be in the vein of Boba Fett being an interesting character worthy of creating some sort of cult around.

Except Odo has, like, a personality, and doesn't fall in a hole and die.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
I just watched the season 3 special features. They said that the head of writing was new, most of the writing staff was new, and they started taking script idea submissions from nearly anyone who would sign a waiver (one example being a guy who was a waiter, in New York). All because they started the shooting schedule, with only 2 or 3 scripts ready.

No wonder season 3 sucked.

Sarek, Yesterday's Enterprise, the Defector and Best of Both Worlds Part One are all incredible. Bunch of good episodes in between as well.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Re: the politik of Trek

Ilya Somin, a libertarian-conservative law professor, has made a side career writing a number of articles about how the Federation is at minimum a socialist state and maybe a fascist state depending on how much power Starfleet holds in its government. (Something which the movies and series are all inconsistent about.) Others expand on this by noting just how many positions of power humans hold. They actually increase as the share of high Federation AND Starfleet officials we see as the series progress from TOS to TNG/DS9.

2007 NRO article: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...-grow-be-federation-tax-collectors-ilya-somin

2007 Volokh article ("How Federal is the Federation?") : http://www.volokh.com/posts/1190182117.shtml

One he wrote this year: http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/star-trek-is-far-from-libertarian-heres-why/

And because it's one of the few still online from the first version I remember of this debate back at the start of the century (and actually seems to have been extensively updated) another persons take on the fascism of Trek, and the anti-Trekism of Firefly: http://www.friesian.com/trek.htm

One thing that's funny about this is that the show does fairly well with IR even if it's all stereotypes but every single power falls apart internally. Like the Romulan Empire only has Romulans in it until Nemesis? It has a freakin' Senate which is shown to have civilian control over the military! (Sela's actions are shown as a coup, even under the powerful state apparatus that exists.) The Klingons have a high council of families, the Cardassians have civilian control established in DS9. Yet, only one species in these large empires are ever represented. They very rarely even have ethnicities.
 

99Luffy

Banned
Wait a second here, DS9 is only as good as Voyager?

*head explodes*

There is DS9 and then there's the rest of Trek.
Im just not a fan of the main cardassian bajoran occupation storyline. And the prophets... :/ The dominion arc is pretty great though.

Voyager I really like because its like 'crazy planet/phenomenon' of the week episodes. Its just so out there. Red of that 70s show changing thousands of timelines to save his wife. No way that would be a DS9 episode.

Looking at some comments in this thread I think ill start TNG from the last episode of season 2.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I'd suggest from the first season at least you watch "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Neutral Zone". If only for the eventual callbacks and to see the show's evolution.

And from the second season, there's a pretty good fivesome: "The Measure of a Man", "The Royale", "Q Who?", "The Emissary" and "Peak Performance."

"Elementary, Dear Data" gets callbacks too and has one of the few decent villains of early season episodes.
 
Voyager I really like because its like 'crazy planet/phenomenon' of the week episodes. Its just so out there. Red of that 70s show changing thousands of timelines to save his wife. No way that would be a DS9 episode.

You should watch the original series, which is what you like about Voyager, but actually good (and sometimes great, but always crazy). Voyager had plenty of terrific concepts, but can't help but bungle the execution nearly all of the time, due to either executive meddling, poor writing, or poor acting (the actor playing Harry Kim can't carry an episode, which is why they stop giving him things to do partway in). Whereas TOS has this almost limitless feeling of discovery because nearly anything can happen, Voyager for all of its assurance of newness feels humdrum, because they're just going to adjust something to solve the problem, or Janeway is going to attempt to murder someone (and once in a while she succeeds). Voyager is at its best when it retreads the path that TOS walked, but it's always at a more sullen pace.

And you're right, DS9 would never do that episode. Because while Voyager's most watchable episodes were sci-fi action affairs (at times feeling oddly similar to the new Trek movies), DS9 was deconstructing Star Trek while still commenting on the philosophical, cultural, and ethical points that Star Trek is known for. One could only do empty action, while the other has a conversation that makes you question a lot of what Trek is built on.

I'm derailing a bit here, so I'll throw my hat in for Sub Rosa, just because the concept is truly dumb, at least for this show. Elsewhere, this might have been more appropriate. On TNG, it's just silly. I might put that Troi/Alexander one with the mud baths, but I honestly can't remember much of it. I'm going to have to look up the plot, because that couldn't have been it. Right?

EDIT: It actually does look like that's the A plot... Good lord.
 

Bluth54

Member
It's not even a contest. Sub Rosa is the worst Star Trek episode of any of the series. Spock's Brain is a masterpiece in comparison. It's like they took a script for a hoaky Lifetime Halloween movie and twisted it into a Star Trek episode, while ruining Beverly Crusher's character and the actress's dignity along the way.

sub_ghostboy.jpg

Yeah I think that would be my answer too, that's probably the only episode I skip during TNG rewatches.
 

benjipwns

Banned
The "relaunch" novels were supposed to be considered tiered-canon, until a show/film overrides them, and had a single editor to oversee it. Maybe that's changed in the last decade or so. Or maybe Star Trek Online counts.

There's certainly nothing that exists to contradict them other than Online.
 
Im just not a fan of the main cardassian bajoran occupation storyline. And the prophets... :/ The dominion arc is pretty great though.

Voyager I really like because its like 'crazy planet/phenomenon' of the week episodes. Its just so out there. Red of that 70s show changing thousands of timelines to save his wife. No way that would be a DS9 episode.

Looking at some comments in this thread I think ill start TNG from the last episode of season 2.

This is how my wife feels after I showed her DS9. Liked the dominion stuff, was iffy or hated the other major strands. I also can't really blame her on the prophets after rewatching how weak that plot line ends.
 
The parasites are followed up on in the semi-canon novels. They're enemies of the Trill or rogue Trill or something I forget. They come back and assassinate some people which sets off some mysteries that eventually resolves in that. At the same time they try to clean up the Trill inconsistencies between TNG and DS9. (The novels actually later do the same thing for the Borg to explain why they suddenly shit the bed after running into Janeway.)

They also come up again in a pretty great storyline in Star Trek Online.
 

Bluth54

Member
I skipped most of season 1. Mostly liked season 2. Skipped through most of season 3. Season 4 is, so far, seeming similar to 3...

I think you're the first person I've ever seen that liked season 2 more then season 3 of TNG.
 

Pluto

Member
The "relaunch" novels were supposed to be considered tiered-canon, until a show/film overrides them, and had a single editor to oversee it. Maybe that's changed in the last decade or so. Or maybe Star Trek Online counts.

There's certainly nothing that exists to contradict them other than Online.
There's no tiered canon in Star Trek, the live action tv shows and movies are canon, everything else is not. Not the novels, not the tie in comics and not Star Trek Online.

And that's not to say there aren't good stories in these mediums but they are still not canon, that nothing exists to contradict them doesn't change that.
 

Schlorgan

Member
There's no tiered canon in Star Trek, the live action tv shows and movies are canon, everything else is not. Not the novels, not the tie in comics and not Star Trek Online.

And that's not to say there aren't good stories in these mediums but they are still not canon, that nothing exists to contradict them doesn't change that.
It's too bad some of the movies are canon. xD
 

Aquova

Member
Im just not a fan of the main cardassian bajoran occupation storyline. And the prophets... :/ The dominion arc is pretty great though.

Voyager I really like because its like 'crazy planet/phenomenon' of the week episodes. Its just so out there. Red of that 70s show changing thousands of timelines to save his wife. No way that would be a DS9 episode.

Looking at some comments in this thread I think ill start TNG from the last episode of season 2.

I've seen many people go on about how much they love DS9, and to an extent I can see why. The space station setting is really cool, and a lot of the Dominion War stuff is really entertaining and is what drove the series. However, certain things about the show really fall flat. Everything about the prophets exists to ex machina the plot every season or so, and the Bajorans were just... boring. I enjoy the TOS and TNG episodes that focus on the horrors of war as much as the next guy, but after 2 or 3 episodes it was enough. I know the Nazis were bad, you don't need to spell it out for me again.

I'm also not that obsessed with "Gene Roddenberry's vision", I think certain changes they made for the series after his passing were positive ones, but changing Starfleet from an enlightened group that we should strive for to another space agency with secret agencies and warhawks made it feel generic. Nearly every piece of sci-fi out there goes for the 'big brother' approach. Focusing on the positive is what set Star Trek apart.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Did they ever explain what happened to the first engineer of the enterprise?

During the first season they had like four different characters in charge of engineering at one time or another.

edit: A couple of them showed up later as engineers working under LaForge, while the others just disappeared. Apparently they had a crew of multiple "chief engineers" until LaForge was promoted over all of them.
 
During the first season they had like four different characters in charge of engineering at one time or another.

I was always under the impression that Picard clearly wasn't impressed with the former engineers. I recall minor annoyances. I like to believe he saw Geordi's innovation as a good quality for chief engineer and promoted him. He also doesn't have a super inflated ego, so he worked well with others.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
The game from The Game looks exactly like what I'd expect a 23rd century mobile game to look like. Except instead of micro transactions it just makes you addicted and brainwashes you. Exactly like today's mobile games actually.
 

SRG01

Member
iirc, it's related to Hugh

something about that whole thing (where later he splits off with his own cube, and Lore has his own batch of Borg) introducing some kind of malignancy into the hivemind that grew over time

Isn't that Descent in TNG, and not from the books?
 
I'm also not that obsessed with "Gene Roddenberry's vision", I think certain changes they made for the series after his passing were positive ones, but changing Starfleet from an enlightened group that we should strive for to another space agency with secret agencies and warhawks made it feel generic. Nearly every piece of sci-fi out there goes for the 'big brother' approach. Focusing on the positive is what set Star Trek apart.

Some say it's realistic and honest.

The Romulans built their empire through cunning; the Klingons through conquest. And yet the Federation miraculously amassed their significant influence through unequivocal pacifism, highlighted by the enforcement of a hands-off approach on undeveloped alien worlds as mandated by the prime directive.

It's a wonder Starfleet wasn't called out on their bullshit earlier.
 

Mugsy

Member
Rewatching TNG and currently hit Pen Pals in S2.

What is this shit.

This is worse than planet of the black people.

Pen Pals has legitimate discussion of the Prime Directive. Sure the Wesley stuff is a bit slow and stupid but it is way better than Code of Honor
 

Reese-015

Member
Pen Pals has legitimate discussion of the Prime Directive. Sure the Wesley stuff is a bit slow and stupid but it is way better than Code of Honor

lol no.

Ok seriously, I honestly felt this was the worst episode thus far. As if I suddenly watched an episode written *and* directed by someone who had never watched TNG. Data didn't act like Data. Everyone had awkward dialogue half of the time. Pacing was way off. There were weird close-ups and odd situations all around. Half of the crew tries and fails at being philosophical. I just went "what?" out loud every few minutes.

Code of Honor was terrible for obvious reasons but its production quality, pacing and overall direction still worked ok. It just happened to be bizarrely and thoroughly racist at its core.

TNG has some good episodes that deal with the prime directive. This was not one.
 
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