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[LordRaptor]

The differences between the two games' cutscenes aren't even subtle, but even if they were, there's still an entire world's worth of detail in subtlety. Things don't need to be black and white.

Funny, because this topic is full of hyperbolic claims about twin snakes being the worst thing that ever existed.

I'm not saying that MGS is shit - unlike all the twin snakes detractors ITT - I'm saying its plot is pretty ridiculous.
So its dancing a suspiciously close to fanboyism / nostalgia goggles line to declare MGS1s cutscenes GOAT and a masterpiece of grounded realism, and TTSs 00's XTREME Animu trash

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Portable ops would be my pick.

 

[Pooya]

Peace Walker and MGS4 are both dumpster fire and worse than Twin Snakes.

 

[Octavia]

Man... why would you ever play Twin Snakes over the original? Besides all the other junk wrong with it, the music missing is a complete tragedy.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Funny, because this topic is full of hyperbolic claims about twin snakes being the worst thing that ever existed.

tbf thread has a weird knee-jerky title to it. it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. he wants people that have played the other games to tell him what is "worse" than the only game he has played? if you liked a game and didn't play anything else in a series wouldn't you want to know the games that are better than it?

 

[LiquidSolid]

Nintendo exclusive of traditionally playstation franchise.

Ah, that explains why everyone hated REmake... Oh wait.

I owned a Gamecube and was a huge Metal Gear fan at the time, Twin Snakes was just a genuinely bad remake. Even if you ignore the worse voice acting, worse soundtrack, dumb cutscenes and poor art, they committed the design sin of introducing features that BROKE the fucking game. There's no coming back from that.

Twin Snakes is down in the Metal Gear gutter alongside Portable Ops and Snake's Revenge.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I'm willing to bet that at least half the people hating on this game also used to call the GameCube the "kiddie" console of its generation or some equally childish "look how mature I am for playing this plastic game box instead of the other one" kind of thing. Ah, those were the days.

Also, they knew they were making it silly and over the top. If you can't see the self awareness in it, you're blind. If anything, the original takes itself and its absurd plot too seriously.

It's got plenty of flaws compared to the original, but I'll always love this little gem of a remake.

 

[RainForce]

All of them except 2 and 4. Loved Twin Snakes.

 

[Rodin]

All of them except 3

Nintendo exclusive of traditionally playstation franchise.

.

 

[Timeaisis]

MGS1

One and done.

Seriously though. Peace Walker, Portable Ops, Acid. Twin Snakes is great.

 

[Bossking]

Funny, because this topic is full of hyperbolic claims about twin snakes being the worst thing that ever existed.

I'm not saying that MGS is shit - unlike all the twin snakes detractors ITT - I'm saying its plot is pretty ridiculous.
So its dancing a suspiciously close to fanboyism / nostalgia goggles line to declare MGS1s cutscenes GOAT and a masterpiece of grounded realism, and TTSs 00's XTREME Animu trash

Even if you claim that the original plot is ridiculous (which it really isn't), Twin Snakes still does an extreme disservice to the original.

It's incredibly hard to take something like Sniper Wolf's death seriously in Twin Snakes when the cutscene proceeding it has Snake kill her by performing a 20 foot high backflip on to a sniper rifle behind him, kicking it up as he grabs it in a 360 degree twirl, then no-scoping her in the chest.

Compare. MGS1 vs Twin Snakes.

 

[Myriadis]

All of them except 3 and 5. maybe 2.

 

[Theosmeo]

V is a worse Metal Gear game than Twin snakes

Spoiler

I enjoyed V but I felt the MGS I loved truly died with Snake Eater

I agree, also portable ops and Metal Gear 2 NES. I don't WANT Metal Gear Survive or Snake Eater Pachinko to be bad but...

 

[Bossking]

I'm willing to bet that at least half the people hating on this game also used to call the GameCube the "kiddie" console of its generation or some equally childish "look how mature I am for playing this plastic game box instead of the other one" kind of thing. Ah, those were the days.

Also, they knew they were making it silly and over the top. If you can't see the self awareness in it, you're blind. If anything, the original takes itself and its absurd plot too seriously.

It's got plenty of flaws compared to the original, but I'll always love this little gem of a remake.

Just because it's "self-aware" doesn't mean it's good.

 

[liquidtmd]

they committed the design sin of introducing features that BROKE the fucking game. There's no coming back from that.

People really need to get a reasonable grasp on what 'game breaking' means otherwise the whole term just has no meaning.

You may not like the mechanics one bit or the design choices over the OG MGS but TTS is not fundamentally broken. It plays fine.

 

[Piers]

"Kojima plzzzzzzz make a MGS for our console"
"Ugh do I fucking have to"

 

[Kain]

The MGS4 hate on this thread

 

[Man God]

Worse than Twin Snakes?

MGS 5
Portable Ops
Peace Walker
MGS 4
MGS 2
MGS 1
MGS (GBC)

It's easier to list the games that are better than Twin Snakes.

 

[Petrae]

I'd much rather play Twin Snakes than MGS3 or MGS4, and I wouldn't touch MGSV if I was paid to play it.

I liked the over-the-top cutscenes that Twin Snakes employed, and the addition of some MGS2 gameplay elements was fine by me. I do agree with criticism of the voice acting, which I thought was worse than the source material, but it's not a game killer for me.

If we're ranking the favorite games in the series that we've played, my ranking goes like this:

MGS
MGS2
Twin Snakes
VR Missions
MGS4
MGS3
Ground Zeroes
Peace Walker

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Even if you claim that the original plot is ridiculous (which it really isn't), Twin Snakes still does an extreme disservice to the original.

It's incredibly hard to take something like Sniper Wolf's death seriously in Twin Snakes when the cutscene proceeding it has Snake kill her by performing a 20 foot high backflip on to a sniper rifle behind him, kicking it up as he grabs it in a 360 degree twirl, then no-scoping her in the chest.

Compare. MGS1 vs Twin Snakes.

Well. That actually made me like The Twin Snakes version more. That was not as ridiculous as I remember. As over the top that game was, THAT cutscene was just dope.

 

[the_milkybar_kid]

V is a worse Metal Gear game than Twin snakes

Yup. V was so unnecessarily po-faced given they took out most of the content and themes Kojima spoke about. The story ark was fucking dreadful too. Absolutely dire Metal Gear game. But yeah, it was the best playable MG game by some distance.

 

[Nottle]

MGS1

In a lot of ways this is true. As a game MGS1 is clunky.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Twin snakes is slightly inferior to MGS1 but it's not the raging shit fest everyone says it is.

The only MGS game that I would consider worse than twin snakes is portable ops, because that game is just not very fun, it controls super clumsily and its mission design isn't very tight.

Having just replayed MGS1 a month ago, personally the only portion of that game that hasn't aged well are the visuals. The rest of the game (outside of using full automatics) still honestly controls pretty damn well and the game design is top notch.

 

[FStop7]

Twin Snakes and MGS4 are equally awful.

 

[Sub_Level]

The MGS1 vr missions alone are better than anything in Twin Snakes lmao

 

[Terrorblot]

MGS:TT, MGS4, and MGS5 are all FANTASTIC games and all have things about them that are pretty disappointing. It's hard for me to justify condemning TTS but just about everything they added in detracted from the game. The first person shooting makes the game a total borefest, you just weren't meant to be plow through those areas tranq-headshotting everything in sight, totally takes any thrill out of the game at all for me, whereas in MGS2, it was nirvana, because that game actually plotted a course that took those gameplay elements into consideration. Add in horrible cutscenes and audio and things are even grimmer.

Also I played MGS:TTS before I played MGS. It's not nostalgia talking.

 

[Jawmuncher]

My biggest issue with Twin Snakes is the voice acting. Everyone sounds like they don't give a shit. It's jarring too since the codec scenes are still the original. So you go back and forth.

 

[Fisty]

I'm sorry but wtf am I reading here? I wouldn't even put Twin Snakes as a good remake, let alone a good MGS game. The only MGS game TTS even has a chance at beating would be Portable Ops, but that has Gene.

Worse acting, worse cutscenes, two iconic boss fights completely ruined, worse character models (yes they managed that), multiple instances of MGS2 mechanics breaking level design... the environments look good though, that's pretty much the only redeeming factor

This is Dennis Dyack making a Metal Gear Solid remake

 

[Vital Tundra]

MGS V is a masterpiece though

Yeah with almost zero story, boring characters, repetitive missions that reuse themselves halfway through and boring side missions that require you to do the same thing over and over. Masterpiece right there.

 

[LordRaptor]

My biggest issue with Twin Snakes is the voice acting. Everyone sounds like they don't give a shit. It's jarring too since the codec scenes are still the original. So you go back and forth.

Whereas replaying MGS1 to me feels like a 4Kids Funimation dub or something.
Mei Lings original VO is borderline racist caricature.

e:
And I don't think any of the VO is from the original - AFAIK, the first game was so low budget all of the original voicework clearly has traffic from outside going past and stuff clearly audible at higher quality, so the entire thing had to be redone.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

MGS1

V is a worse Metal Gear game than Twin snakes

Both games are trash, but at least Twin Snakes is laughably bad.

4, Peace Walker and 5 are all much worse than Twin Snakes, which was a decent game with some niggling flaws.

3 = 1 > 2 >>> TS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4/PW/5

wow.

I'm sorry but wtf am I reading here? I wouldn't even put Twin Snakes as a good remake, let alone a good MGS game. The only MGS game TTS even has a chance at beating would be Portable Ops, but that has Gene.

Worse acting, worse cutscenes, two iconic boss fights completely ruined, worse character models (yes they managed that), multiple instances of MGS2 mechanics breaking level design... the environments look good though, that's pretty much the only redeeming factor

This is Dennis Dyack making a Metal Gear Solid remake

Yeah, this. Portable OPs is arguably a worse game. Even 4, which isn't espectacular is better than Twin Snakes. Also Metal Gear actually has a solid track record with spin-offs (Ghost Babel, a lot of people love AC!D).

Everybody saying V and Peace Walker are out of their mind.

 

[The Boat]

Having played the original recently, I found most of the voice acting better in TTS tbh. The soundtrack doesn't compare though, I really like TTS' OST, but the original is something else.

 

[MajinSweet4]

People really need to get a reasonable grasp on what 'game breaking' means otherwise the whole term just has no meaning.

You may not like the mechanics one bit or the design choices over the OG MGS but TTS is not fundamentally broken. It plays fine.

Yeah, Ocelot just standing still while you shoot him in the face over and over is some solid well designed game play. It's almost like they just put in MGS2 mechanics without altering MGS1 scenarios to match. Hell, Ocelot already had a mechanic in the game that would have made an easy solution to this problem. Just have him ricochet shots from behind cover when the player is on the other side of the room. It just makes the remake look rushed and not thought out. It's totally fair to say that the FPS mode breaks this boss and this is just one example of many.

 

[LordBaztion]

Twin Snakes is a great place to start, some argue that its worse than the original, with reason, but its aa damn good game to get into the series.
Worse than TTS, peace walker and PP.

 

[Eolz]

The Metal Gear hardcore fanbase is worse than Twin Snakes.

More seriously, 1/POPS, arguably 2 and 4, and I guess some spinoffs that I don't think truly count.
3/PW/5 are way better.

 

[Coffee Dog]

4 has some pretty shit encounter design, it's by far the most linear and shallow in the entire series. By virtue of being mostly MGS1 Twin Snakes is better than that and Peace Walker.

Like, there's nothing in twin snakes as bad as the tailing/bike chase from act 3, dealing with the boring fucking robot guards in act 4, and the complete lack of sneaking in act 5. You just don't have many options in a series that focuses on giving you an abundance of them.

 

[Ivan 3414]

MGS1

^ This is a troll post and it's also correct

 

[Dali]

I bought mgs 3 when it first came out and couldn't play it because Kojima was using the same camera that worked ok in sterile empty rooms like mgs and mgs 2 in the jungle. I couldnt see shit, and gave up pretty quickly. So my answer is mgs 3 before subsistence was released.

 

[hao chi]

MGS4 is honestly one of the worst games I've finished.

 

[sphinx]

tbf thread has a weird knee-jerky title to it. it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

he wants people that have played the other games to tell him what is "worse" than the only game he has played? if you liked a game and didn't play anything else in a series wouldn't you want to know the games that are better than it?

how does changing the question to "what games are better than TSS?" change the content of the thread?

TSS hardcore haters, for example, would just answer "all of them" instead of "none of them", it's the same.

but seriously, I now TSS is polarizing but I have fond memories of it and just wanted to see how it compares to other MGS games.

also, I did play Portable ops, it's nice to see other people also agree is a bad game.

 

[Roni]

Telling someone to not use mechanics in a game has and always will be a weak argument in any context it's used it. You're basically asking someone not to play the game to its fullest. If someone was going to play TS like MGS1, why not just play MGS1?

Because they only own a GameCube?

 

[Ash735]

Few pointers on the Twin Snakes hate:

"Cutscenes in later games are just as goofy"
Yes, even in MGS1, there were goofy anime moments BUT it was relative to the characters, even in the later games, the likes of Raidan, Vamp, Grey Fox, etc, are shown to be the characters with supernatural or greatly enhanced like elements. So it feels in line with the characters when those cutscenes involving them go a bit crazy.

Snake on the other is always portrayed as a veteran experienced soldier taking on the odds, and that's remained consistent throughout all the games (even Peace Walker, when shit goes WAY Anime). It's a contrast to the gameplay when you CAN'T then do stuff shown in cutscenes, seeing Snake in Twin Snakes do backflips, bouncing around off rockets, do 360 no scope kills, etc, and then controlling him and he's just, ...normal, feels jarring to what you're seeing in the cutscenes.

Meanwhile, take VR Missions where you get to play as Grey Fox, oh, look at that, you can do these crazy jumps, stealth attacks and weird electric shield stuff in his training stages. In MGS2, Raidan is always shown as being more nimble than Snake and then when he gets the HF Blade his gameplay style is changed up and that's before he goes all Deus Ex and gets augmented to just be a damn human head on a cyborg body by the time MGS4 comes around.

That's why the cutscenes in Twin Snakes are considered bad and OTT, it's not just the supernatural characters or the enhanced characters doing crazy shit, ...it's ALL the characters. Look at Liquid Snake, where in cutscenes where he's giving a simple speech he's just randomly doing frontflips and tap dancing on a railing, WHY?

You know which cutscene DOESN'T feel out of place with the rest of the series though? The Grey Fox corridor scene in Twin Snakes since it actually feels like we got to see what we didn't in the original and it fit with the aftermath we saw in the PS1 version.

The biggest offender...
The MUSIC and sound mixing, in a series that does this stuff really well, you can tell Twin Snakes feels like the odd one out, even Portable Ops and Peace Walker got the music style and mixing sorted. This is a series which takes music cues and uses them to effect and even as little easter eggs in later games, which is all completely lost in Twin Snakes, I have no idea why they couldn't just remix the original score but instead we got this bland uninspiring action movie ambience, just compare the following...

Cavern
https://youtu.be/-gzVbTqJKZc
https://youtu.be/jAVl5RLylTQ

Tank Hanger (One of the few actual remixed tracks)
https://youtu.be/NTeGMIKoKkY
https://youtu.be/EqnNyanKjw8

Holding Cells
https://youtu.be/CdXLCCY5zrc
https://youtu.be/2WH-vYVlkMQ

Enclosure
https://youtu.be/158aAmVyDug
NO TWIN SNAKES VERSION

Blast Furnace
https://youtu.be/F8AKYlUrZBs
https://youtu.be/ZgobaRV-Hbc

Rex's Lair
https://youtu.be/1kt589CU3Xc
https://youtu.be/SNnfxoIMJuE

The soundtrack alone is just missing so much atmosphere, you can't even say it's trying to be more like MGS2/3 since they have brilliant scores too, not just blandness, I mean, let's take MGS2:
https://youtu.be/G5PF3Yg-vVE
https://youtu.be/G5PF3Yg-vVE
https://youtu.be/dgGUtm_FzU4
https://youtu.be/06x5gRB5kZk

Compare that to the Twin Snakes music, it just feels worlds apart, I mean, damn, let's even compare it to MGS4 during Act 4:

Rex's Lair
https://youtu.be/rNqUhh08nZA

Enclosure
https://youtu.be/m0NqNq_hnqQ

MGS4 just proved even more how much of a wrong step the score for Twin Snakes was by using the original PS1 version music and remixing/remastering that. And then there's the issues of the sound design in Twin Snakes just feeling off at times or badly mixed depending on the area, something which really feels wrong compared to the rest of the series which usually keeps things very tight and well done in that area.

These two things for me are worse than the unbalanced MGS2 features being tossed in, couple that with the voice acting where the majority of the cast sound bored to be back, except David Hayter and Cam Clarke who feel like the only ones who seem to be putting the effort in. Add on top of that the slightly weird stiff looking models for the characters, etc. Yes it has better graphics and gameplay, but everything else just felt worse off, and in MGS1/2/3, atmosphere, music, acting, etc, are what really add to the experience of the game which felt crippled in Twin Snakes.

Sorry if this post is too long, but as a long time fan of the MGS series, I thought it would be good to at least describe my own thoughts and reasons why I dislike Twin Snakes instead of just saying "it sucks".

edit: And just to mention for people doing drive by posts saying things like "Oh, it's just PlayStation fanboys who can't accept it as a Nintendo game", that couldn't be further from the truth seeing as REmake, RE4, etc, were praised and adored for years by people, REmake is how a ...remake should be done, keeping it incredibly faithful to the original whilst improving things without ruining the direction.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

I don't hate TTS but don't like it nearly as much as the original, but a lot of that comes down to stylistic reasons. Because I'm a lazy asshole I'm just gonna copy & paste my post from a recent, similiar discussion:

We can argue all day about this stuff. Do the new features kinda break the game? Yeah, they kinda do. Can you just not use them? Sure I guess, but it's not an optimal solution either, because the enemy AI is designed around you making use of those features, while the level design is not. But whatever. Complaints about the original's controls are nonsense to be honest.

The real difference to keep in mind is that, while both games follow the same story, and the dialogue is mostly the same (The new translation being somewhat more stilted and literal though.) the original and the remake have a vastly different mood and aesthetic to them, all the way to the soundtrack, where the original goes for a mix of 80's action movie drums and synth as well as some choir stuff, the remake goes for techno beats. It also has way too many silent parts And it's a lot brighter looking, too bright to be honest and at the same time lacks a lot of the color the original used.

The cinematics in the original were at times also going for a sort of horror movie vibe, with Psycho Mantis' first appearence and the eerie music, or the stuff with Grey Fox killing all those soldiers. The Remake kinda dismisses that vibe and goes for straight action.

Now you can say you prefer the new style all the way, and I can say nu-uh, the original is way better (Which I think it is.), but the point is that there's still a lot of merit to playing the original over the remake, despite the latter being better on a pure technical level and having copied over a bunch of things from the first game's sequel.

 

[SparkleMotion]

The MGS4 hate on this thread

Metal Gear Solid 4 is the worst thing ever created by a human.

 

[The Shadow]

I never understood the hate Twin Snakes get. Can someone explain it to me?

MGS was outlandish at parts, but for the most part, it had a more serious and dire feeling to it. There was a sense of urgency and anxiety to the plot. It was realistic enough to make you care.

TTS really did away with all of that with the absolutely stupid cut scenes. It's like the Bollywood version of Terminator 2.

Edit: That's why I really didn't care for TTS. There are other things that bothered me about it, like the FPV that seemed to kind of break the gameplay and how barebones it felt. When you remake a game, it should have something that really makes you want to play the remake, aside from "Now with FPV". But yeah, more than anything else, it was the new cutscenes.

 

[liquidtmd]

MGS was outlandish at parts, but for the most part, it had a more serious and dire feeling to it. There was a sense of urgency and anxiety to the plot. It was realistic enough to make you care.

TTS really did away with all of that with the absolutely stupid cut scenes. It's like the Bollywood version of Terminator 2.

Now I'm sad this isn't an actual thing.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Metal Gear Solid 4 is the best. It takes all the absurdities and wankery that I love about Metal Gear Solid and amplifies it. The original version of Metal Gear Solid is a very close second. Metal Gear Solid V, by far, has the best gameplay in the series, but it largely abandoned the aspects I loved most. That's not to say it's bad, however. Twin Snakes is a great, alternate take on the original with clear regressions, but still worthy of being played.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

MGS4

Cutscenes, dialogue, nanomachines, plot. All cringier.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Now I'm sad this isn't an actual thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yBnl_krN_U

P.S. Twin Snakes is great

 

[Koyuga]

Metal Gear Solid 1 (PSX)